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ShivaFan
10 August 2012, 09:14 PM
Namaste
I take dharshan at different temples here in the US. But now we are seeing centers coming up which describe themselves as an Ashram

To me, when I think of an Ashram, I envision a place or even a community as in the olden days, tucked away in the forest, or by a sacred river, or on a mountain, or even isolated caves or a sacred island. There are monks, brahmachari students, perhaps ascetics, and likely a great Master, Guru, Savant, Swami or other who gives instruction. A lot more meditation takes place then pujas to a Murthi, though there a Yaynas ceremonies, and perhaps a Lingam.

This is different from a Temple, where the main focus is the residency of a Murthi, Deva or Devi. And the Temple may provide services, such as benediction of the Divine, or helping in arrangements for life passage such as wedding.

But today we see Ashrams explictly called so, but they are cultural centers, or yoga centers. And there is a shrine where pujas are conducted in some cases.

In todays modern world it is confusing. What is the difference between a Temple and an Ashram? Can the place be both in the modern trend of things? Is this a deviation from foundational Hinduism?

There is now a new Temple not far from me. Both Vaishnav and Saiva are represented, with pujas for either denomination. And there is an Ashram not far, but it is really a yoga center and cultural in focus. And there are several Ashrams not far that are really Domes for a particular Guru following, with almost all attention on Guru and not a residence for the Murthi of Deva or Devi. And most of these Ashrams are in the heart of a city, and not in a forest, mountain, or near nature.

This might be an interesting discussion. I prefer Temples. But really, what is the difference between a Temple and an Ashram in our modern world?

Are we sort of mixing things up these days?

Om Namah Sivaya

Eastern Mind
10 August 2012, 09:58 PM
Vannakkam Shivafan: Personally, I've never seen many similarities, other that they are both more or less Hinduism, although you often see far more universalism at ashrams. There is little teaching going on at temples, just the murthis and devotees. Sometimes ashrams have temples in them, but usually they're some small thing that is more or less set off from the main area or classrooms. At Arsha Vidya Gurukkulam in the Poconos, or Sivananda Yoga Ashram in Quebec, there are temples, but in the grand scheme of the layout, they're almost insignificant. Still pilgrims might go there just for the temple.

I am with you in preferring temples. But theen I've only been to a couple of ashrams, as compared to maybe 20 or more temples. So I'm probably wrong.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
11 August 2012, 10:01 AM
Namaste,

Mandir is for deity worship and an Ashram conjures up images of learning/living/practicing in a very spiritual environment away from population centers for extended periods of time. Unfortunately, in today's environment, the term Ashram is used very loosely and could mean anything that the owner/administrator of an establishment wants it to be.

Pranam.

Eastern Mind
11 August 2012, 10:18 AM
Vannakkam: I think the contrast is probably apparent at Tiruvanamalai. On travel sites like Indiamike, westerners talk or ask about the many ashrams there, especially Ramanashram, yet rarely does one ask of Arunaleshwara temple. I wonder how many ashramites take a walk over to the temple, and also how many temple devotees bother with the ashrams. I'm guessing for some the 'distance' is much further than the physical distance. Anybody stayed there for awhile? Insights?

Aum Namasivaya

ShivaFan
11 August 2012, 01:00 PM
Namaste

Thank you EM and Believer. You two always have the answer, greatly appreciated. This also confirms my observations of "Ashrams" in California. While some may be legit, some may be agenda based, or money making business, and not actually Hindu, Saiva, Shakta or Vaishnav. So Westerners generally be perhaps less "openingly accepting" and a little more "careful" when entering an Ashram, generally a Temple is typically more "authorized" or legit, while also being aware of the differences between the two.

Because of the large and growing interest in Hinduism in America (verses yoga interest in the layman's perspective) there are many avenues, many left and right turns. There is probably no good answer to this dilemma in the US, generally I think a temple is probably the best first step for Americans.

What about a World Hindu board such as the VHP for example, that could give a (very BAD analogy) "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" to Ashrams and may be even Temples? (only Americans would probably understand what I am talking about, since this is not the same as a stamp of legitimacy)? May be not?

Thanks again!

Om Namah Sivaya

Believer
11 August 2012, 01:42 PM
Namaste,

Because of the large and growing interest in Hinduism in America ............I am always baffled by this. I don't see hundreds of thousands of Americans inundating mainstream Hindu mandirs; only few in ISKCON and Himalaya Academy affiliated ones. There was a surge when ISKCON came into being and the hippie culture embraced it in the 60s and 70s. Then with Praphupad's passing away, many American gurus in the movement left and so did the devotees whom they had initiated. Now there are so few of them. Any interest I see in the general public is superficial, in that when people do ask me about Hinduism, it is just out of curiosity and that too, 'tell me briefly about it, don't give me a long convoluted lecture'. Few people who have actually become Hindus, it is not as if their future generations from now till eternity will be Hindus. So, the Hindu ranks don't swell because of them. Maybe I am too analytical (which often frustrates others) or I live in a different world.:)

What about a World Hindu board such as the VHP for example, that could give a (very BAD analogy) "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" to Ashrams and may be even Temples? ......Hinduism never had a formal organized hierarchy and they don't seem to agree on anything. Just look at this forum - so few people and so many heated discussions/fights/banishments/diametrically opposite interpretations/perosnalities. How could we then have one entity dishing out seal of approvals? It would be attacked from day one as unauthentic, not representing me, biased, agenda driven, politicized, un-Hindu, radical and much worse. The people doing the evaluations in foreign lands would have be Indian volunteers (for obvious economic reasons), whose religious bend, mental state, Hindu credentials would be under constant attack. So, that is not going to happen any time soon.

Pranam.

Eastern Mind
11 August 2012, 02:21 PM
Vannakkam: HAF (Hindu American Foundation) and the Mandir Executive Conference guys try a bit, but just as Believer says, we're so diverse that lots just say, "Oh that's not my style." There is just so much ego, time spent doing local things, and other factors to make any such thing work very well. The ashrams will always continue to distance themselves from Hinduism, because quite frankly, Hinduism scares them. There are many remnants of the British and other 'Those Hindus are inferior!" complex, and it will take a while to rid ourselves of it. Not only that, but money talks. The yoga teachers need to make a living, and they tend to stick with what works. I'd love to see someone stick there neck out and start the yoga class with a full all out puja, or see more Americans come to the Indian built temples.

Aum Namasivaya

ShivaFan
11 August 2012, 02:50 PM
Namate Believer,

As usual you are spot on in so many ways, that's why you are very popular. Actually, your humor is beloved to tell you the truth. Do you currently in in the USA? (if it's none of my buiness, that's ok!)...

Actually, I take a different angle on this from personal experience. You are right, hundreds of thousands perhaps is high, but I do see a lot of Americans who are very interested or even "closet Hindus". I even discovered a Supervisor who is Amercan and a Hindu who started going to a temple.

Another example from just a week ago. I have a personalized California license plate on my car, with the name of a Deva. Because the actual spelling was already taken, I had to take a slight variation on the spelling but it is unmistakeable what it is.

So I am parked in front of a Whole Foods store (natural foods and such), waiting in the car while my wife shops (I was actually on my cell phone in the car browsing the HDF), and suddenly a man probably about in his 30s is at my open car window. He is very happy, and he starts to tell me all about the Deva in question. The next thing I know, I discover he is a closet Hindu but was scared to go to a temple for fear of being rejected by perhaps Indians (he was Euro). I show him an address to a Shiva Muruga temple not far from his area, and a newer mix denomination Temple as well.

This example happens a lot due to my license plate.

I have no doubt about it, I can give many examples, Americans actually do have this interest. By the way, there is little doubt in my mind that most American not only do NOT like Islam, they have a very negative opinion, even that may not be the word.

You are probably right about Hindus not agreeing on everything. But as dumb as it probably is, something like a VHP "star review" like a stamp that could be displayed on the Temple or Ashram website for centers in the US would be very helpful. Like you say, it would be criticized and argued about, but since Hindus are doing that anyway as you say well then I think we could all survive it. Personally (and since this is the Hot Topics section, so probably I can get away with saying this), Saiva, Shakta and Vaishnavs in the USA get along very well in America, probably more so than in India. But like you and Em say, it's probably a train wreck in motion!

As for the ones who were involved in movements such as ISKCON, or others, they may go away.... But they always return. They always do. It is only a matter of time. In America at least, whether they go to a cultural center, or West oriented temple, or other, once they take to Hinduism, they never actually leave. They come back. Sooner or later.

Om Namah Sivaya

Eastern Mind
11 August 2012, 04:12 PM
Vannakkam: It's slow, and it also depends on the temple. Here we have maybe 10 semi-regular Caucasians, although its hard to tell because I don't (rarely) go on Sundays, and I don't make a point of 'counting'. There are quite a few of us on these forums, but I don't see a great success rate of us being able to convince curiousity seekers to attend temples from here, although some have indeed gone. We're certainly quite good at the not proseltysing angle. :)

Aum Namasivaya

ShivaFan
11 August 2012, 10:59 PM
Namaste EM

Satay told me in a post we are not suppose to be proseltysing, which really as far is Hindus go is the way it is. But sometimes I do! --- well "sort of" ... they approach me first. It's not like I am knocking on doors, "Hello my name is ShivaFan ... I would like to give you a copy of my brochure about The Great Lord. Can I come in, and we can talk about Shiva?" ...

But I do not hide my "Hinduness", the example my personalized license plate on my car. Actually, I am stunned at how many people (Caucasians as you call them) know the Deva in question and try to tell me all about it!

I don't want to reveal my plate number, but just as a hint, the Deva is associated with a horse.

Om Namah Sivaya