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vedanta_learner
31 January 2007, 11:33 PM
Hi every one,

I am new to this forum, and interested to learn some philosophical matters from all of you guys.
Thanks to admins of this forum for giving me a chance to learn the invaluable knowldge of Hindu dharma.

Agnideva
01 February 2007, 10:04 AM
Hi every one,
I am new to this forum, and interested to learn some philosophical matters from all of you guys.

Namaste Vedanta Learner,

Welcome to HDF :). What school of Vedanta are you learning from?

OM Shanti,
A.

vedanta_learner
01 February 2007, 11:39 PM
Namaste Vedanta Learner,

Welcome to HDF :). What school of Vedanta are you learning from?

OM Shanti,
A.

Thanks Agnideva, I belong to no particular school, I want to learn all the Hindu philosophical concepts like Advaita,VA,Dvaita..

satay
02 February 2007, 12:26 AM
Thanks Agnideva, I belong to no particular school, I want to learn all the Hindu philosophical concepts like Advaita,VA,Dvaita..

namaste vedanta_learner (aren't we all! I like your handle) and welcome to the Hindu Dharma Forums.

May I ask why you want to learn about the different philosophical concepts of dharma, what is the purpose of your study?

Also, please share your background with the rest of the members (if you would like).

looking forward to your posts...

Hare Krishna!

vedanta_learner
02 February 2007, 12:48 AM
namaste vedanta_learner (aren't we all! I like your handle) and welcome to the Hindu Dharma Forums.

May I ask why you want to learn about the different philosophical concepts of dharma, what is the purpose of your study?

Also, please share your background with the rest of the members (if you would like).

looking forward to your posts...

Hare Krishna!

Thank you Satay,

My answer would be "to know the exact truth".

I am not being happy always..but I want, I don't understand what exactly I want , then araised a question why do I need happiness? who am I ? why all living beings are always try for happiness in some way?
like above no.of questions are in my mind..in the way I came to know about Hindu dharma is to be most ancient , authentic and can answer many of my questions and can show right path to me to become a peaceful and heppiest person for ever.

I know little about Hindu philosophy like Advaita , VA, Dvaita and think these systems could clarify my doubts and show me a path .

But I have many doubts regading these Hindu philosophical thoughts also..why there are many why can't be there a single conecpt..so I need to clarify all my doubts.

I think our DB members can help me.

Thank you.

Agnideva
06 February 2007, 06:02 PM
But I have many doubts regading these Hindu philosophical thoughts also..why there are many why can't be there a single conecpt..so I need to clarify all my doubts.

Namaste Vedanta Learner,

Based on your current understanding, why do you believe there are so many philosophical positions in Hinduism? Just curious to hear your thoughts...

OM Shanti,
A.

vedanta_learner
06 February 2007, 11:33 PM
Namaste Vedanta Learner,

Based on your current understanding, why do you believe there are so many philosophical positions in Hinduism? Just curious to hear your thoughts...

OM Shanti,
A.

Namaste Agnideva,

Ok..let me explain my understanding about philosophical concepts first.

I think there are three main categories in Hindu philosophy as far as I know, Advaita(monoism), VisishtAdvaita , Dvaita , beside these three there are some other concepts which are not more popular e.g: Bhedabheda etc.,

Advaita's main concept is "Brahma satyam, jagan midhya..jeevo Brahmaiva na parah"

so as per Advaita concept..Brahman is the only truth(I want to know what exactly means "Satyam") and the world what we are looking at is just midhya or relative truth, finally Jeeva is none other than Brahman.

come to the VA concept, where there is only Brahman is eternal but having the Chit,achit(which have different swaroopa from Brahman)as his sareera(which is not seperable from Brahman ever).

In deep, there are lots of differences between Advaita and VA , like regarding swaroopa , roopa of Brahman etc.,

Dvaita is the concept which tells us that there is an eternal distinction between Brahman and jeevatman.

So my problem is , after choosing the one of the concepts discussed here ,I could move further in achieving the goal( Advaita has the goal of realinzing my own self which is nothing but Brahman, where as VA and Dvaita have the Brahman as goal who is different from my self and self of my self).

So problem seems simple , but it is really serious for me..if I choose Advaita concept as true Vedanta concept then I could try to realize my "self" , which is just conciousness . if I choose VA or Dvaita path , I have to surrender my self to Brahman who can take care of my "self"..so what exactly is Vedas tell us ?

If I choose the path of Advaita , could I be Blissful, peaceful for ever?
else if I choose VA or Dvaita (seems similar paths to me) , could I be blissful and peaceful for ever?

if both ways can lead me to eternal state..then it doesn't mean that Advaita is the correct concept of Vedas ,and VA , Dvaita are subsets of Advaita.

But even if Advaita is exact truth of Vedanta..then I will have lots of doubts .

So my first goal is to get answers for all of my doubts , then follow some path .

Thank you.

sm78
07 February 2007, 08:59 AM
Vedas tells us to do Tapas and realize the Brahman.
It also tells us to live an excellent life on earth at all levels.

AV, VA etc also ultimately tells the same ... but they (AV and VA practioners) spend a lot of time arguing about Brahman before realizing it.

My approach is to stay out of it all ~ u decide what u want to do.

Also classical vedantic philosophies are not all of Hinduism. They must be the majority ... but we have significant number of Shavia and Shakta hindu's who believe in Vedas & Gita but not the orthodox philosophies of the latter days. They rely on their own Shiddhanta about Truth which God Shiva has gracefully expounded in Agamas and Tantras as an answer to many questions of our age.

sm78
07 February 2007, 09:05 AM
"to know the exact truth".

To know Trutht u have to do Tapas ... there is no other way


"..why there are many why can't be there a single conecpt..."

Because God has 1000 heads ;).

Agnideva
07 February 2007, 05:27 PM
Namaste Vedanta Learner,

Philosophies are rational means constructed by humans to understand what is really not understandable in the common sense of the word. Every philosopher (and his followers) says he is the only one who is right, and everyone else is wrong. Different philosophies are just different ways of understanding. How do we know any of them are really true? We simply don’t. Every philosophy in existence was described by some great realized man or woman. How could some have been right and some have been wrong? I would say that each one saw the truth from a different angle. No one is absolutely right, no one is absolutely wrong. We just go with the philosophical position that makes the most sense to us. There is a dialog in one of the Tantras, where Shiva tells Shakti, “I am neither monistic, nor dualistic, or anything in between.” The Ultimate Truth cannot be written down, it is anirvachya (indescribable), it must be experienced first hand.

Whenever I think of the different philosophies we have in Hinduism, I’m reminded of a famous verse from the Adhyatma Ramayana between Rama and Hanuman (I am parapharasing here):

Once Rama asked Hanuman: “Hanuman, who are you?”

Hanuman replied: “My Lord, as a body, You are the Master, and I am Your servant. As a mind, You are the Sun and I am just a ray of that Sun. As a soul, I am but Your very Self.”

OM Shanti,
A.

vedanta_learner
08 February 2007, 12:19 AM
Vedas tells us to do Tapas and realize the Brahman.
It also tells us to live an excellent life on earth at all levels.

AV, VA etc also ultimately tells the same ... but they (AV and VA practioners) spend a lot of time arguing about Brahman before realizing it.



Thanks and Namaste sm78,

I am an ordinary human being who is engaged in this worldly life..so what do you mean by Tapas that I can do without disturbing my common duty.

And when I am going to start tapas as you said ..I will surely be with a goal for that tapas..I think goal should be Brahman , but then without knowing any thing about Brahman..how can I follow further?
What do you mean by tapas?

vedanta_learner
08 February 2007, 12:38 AM
Namaste Vedanta Learner,

Philosophies are rational means constructed by humans to understand what is really not understandable in the common sense of the word. Every philosopher (and his followers) says he is the only one who is right, and everyone else is wrong. Different philosophies are just different ways of understanding. How do we know any of them are really true? We simply don’t. Every philosophy in existence was described by some great realized man or woman. How could some have been right and some have been wrong? I would say that each one saw the truth from a different angle. No one is absolutely right, no one is absolutely wrong. We just go with the philosophical position that makes the most sense to us. There is a dialog in one of the Tantras, where Shiva tells Shakti, “I am neither monistic, nor dualistic, or anything in between.” The Ultimate Truth cannot be written down, it is anirvachya (indescribable), it must be experienced first hand.

Thanks Agnideva,

Yes..you are right that the philosopical concepts based on some humans only..but do you think no philosophical concept can perfectly explain Vedas?

I mean what exactly Vedas reveal us ? If each one viewed the Veda in different angle..then there might not be descrepancies between these concepts(views) because they were different views.

I think the differenciation is not because of view..but the understanding of Vedas and explanation of the nature of Brahman .

Regarding your comment " the ultimate truth is Aniravachiniya" ..how our mind or brain got the point that there is some thing which is Anirvarachiniya..if at all it is Anirvachaniya..it can't even be known as Anirvachaniya.



Whenever I think of the different philosophies we have in Hinduism, I’m reminded of a famous verse from the Adhyatma Ramayana between Rama and Hanuman (I am parapharasing here):

Once Rama asked Hanuman: “Hanuman, who are you?”

Hanuman replied: “My Lord, as a body, You are the Master, and I am Your servant. As a mind, You are the Sun and I am just a ray of that Sun. As a soul, I am but Your very Self.”

OM Shanti,
A.

Good quote..but there is a small doubt..if at all Hanuman's soul was(is) very soul of Rama..why there were differences at the body level and mind level ?

Thank you

Agnideva
08 February 2007, 11:35 AM
Namaste Vedanta Learner,


do you think no philosophical concept can perfectly explain Vedas?
What are your feelings about this? You already are aware of the similarities and differences between the various Vedanta philosophies. Do you find that one explains everything perfectly whereas another one does not? I find that a given philosophy explains things perfectly only for the given mind, but not for all minds. What my mind may find satisfactory may not be considered satisfactory by another. There are as many philosophies out there as there are minds.


I mean what exactly Vedas reveal us? If each one viewed the Veda in different angle..then there might not be descrepancies between these concepts(views) because they were different views.
You know the elephant and the blind men story, don’t you? :) By this, I don't mean to call the philosophers blind men, they were all realized beings. But, when each one views it from different sides, there will be discrepancies. That’s why we see endless debates between the different schools on the internet ;).


I think the differenciation is not because of view..but the understanding of Vedas and explanation of the nature of Brahman.
Do you believe that the Vedas have perfectly explained the nature of Brahman to us, and Its relation to the world and the souls? Is so, how do we understand it? After all, our own understanding is colored by the philosophical view we understand best. So, even when we try to be philosophically neutral, absolute neutrality is impossible. A person who believes in non-dualism will see nothing but non-dualism in the Veda; a person who believes in dualism will see nothing but dualism, and so forth.


Regarding your comment "the ultimate truth is Aniravachiniya" ..how our mind or brain got the point that there is some thing which is Anirvarachiniya..if at all it is Anirvachaniya..it can't even be known as Anirvachaniya.
I can tell you where my mind got this concept … from reading Swami Krishnananda’s writings :). As you know, it’s a term often used in Advaita Vedanta. You’re right to question it. How can something indescribable be known to be indescribable? Again, it is a conclusion reached by the mind in an attempt to satisfy the mind’s curiosity.


Good quote..but there is a small doubt..if at all Hanuman's soul was(is) very soul of Rama..why there were differences at the body level and mind level ?
When I read this verse, what I see is yet another attempt by which we have tried to explain away reality. We have divided and graded reality into different sections, and say that truth is relative. The question is: can we divide reality? Is there a relative truth and an absolute truth, or is there only Truth? In Agamic/Tantric non-dualism, one is told that reality is one, we only divide it only because we cannot even begin to grasp or experience it until our consciousness reaches the ājña chakra.

Regards,
A.

Zardozi
21 February 2007, 10:40 AM
Namaste Vedanta Learner,
When I read this verse, what I see is yet another attempt by which we have tried to explain away reality. We have divided and graded reality into different sections, and say that truth is relative. The question is: can we divide reality? Is there a relative truth and an absolute truth, or is there only Truth? In Agamic/Tantric non-dualism, one is told that reality is one, we only divide it only because we cannot even begin to grasp or experience it until our consciousness reaches the ājña chakra.

Regards,
A.

My explanation of Reality is as follows, "perception is an illusion of what an ultimate reality reflects."

bUrIaL
23 February 2007, 10:15 PM
My explanation of Reality is as follows, "perception is an illusion of what an ultimate reality reflects."

+1 i agree...o sorry, i am new here as well, my name is jaelan but most of the ppl that hang around me call me jae......or burial....

satay
23 February 2007, 10:55 PM
+1 i agree...o sorry, i am new here as well, my name is jaelan but most of the ppl that hang around me call me jae......or burial....

namaste jae!
Welcome to Hindu Dharma Forums.

:)

Zardozi
24 February 2007, 11:25 AM
Namaste Vedanta Learner,
When I read this verse, what I see is yet another attempt by which we have tried to explain away reality. We have divided and graded reality into different sections, and say that truth is relative. The question is: can we divide reality? Is there a relative truth and an absolute truth, or is there only Truth? In Agamic/Tantric non-dualism, one is told that reality is one, we only divide it only because we cannot even begin to grasp or experience it until our consciousness reaches the ājña chakra.

Regards,
A.
Namaste bhaiyo,
In answer to dividing reality i must say that... If you're nothing, you're indivisible , not invisible...

Zardozi

bUrIaL
24 February 2007, 02:59 PM
namaste jae!
Welcome to Hindu Dharma Forums.

:)

ram ram! nice to meet u all.

Agnideva
26 February 2007, 12:11 PM
"perception is an illusion of what an ultimate reality reflects."

In answer to dividing reality i must say that... If you're nothing, you're indivisible , not invisible...

Hey thanks Zardozi ... I like how you think :D

A.