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Jodhaa
22 August 2012, 08:36 AM
Namaste!

I find mediation is extremely useful for discovering one's own neurosis. You learn all sorts of interesting things about how you think when you give yourself the chance to really be alone with yourself.

Let's say you've discovered that you have a negative thinking pattern - something that has become habitual over the years. Let's go a step further and say, you even have enough insight into your own mind and life history to connect the dots and pinpoint how that negative thinking pattern developed in the first place.

How do you start the process of healing that negativity, and developing a new way of thinking? I'm interested in hearing how other members have handled this sort of situation.

Thank you for reading!

Peace!

Viraja
22 August 2012, 01:03 PM
Namaste,

This implies that we first admit what our phobia has been here in this forum! Doesn't sound very comfortable! :D

Jodhaa
22 August 2012, 01:50 PM
Namaste,

This implies that we first admit what our phobia has been here in this forum! Doesn't sound very comfortable! :D

Ah, fair enough, Aspirant. :) Shall I go first?

The false train of thought I am referring to in myself is this.

It may come as surprise considering some of the topics I've started, but I'm actually a pretty even tempered and argument-averse person (Stay with me!). As a child I was the classic peace maker. I always stood on neutral ground, and rarely stated my opinion on anything. As a child, this works. In fact, people grow to admire you for it. But as you get older, people expect you to have an opinion on things, and to state that opinion. The time arrives to choose sides, effectively.

For the neutral peace-maker, always avoiding conflict, this is a nightmare. Now the risk of alienating others...of (gasp) not being liked, is very real. So after years of not expressing one's opinion, the ability to do so is well...stunted. So the neutral peace-maker develops an unhealthy habit - she overcompensates by becoming overly passionate -even aggressive, as she states her opinion, based on the false assumption that she must "make a stand" in order for her opinion to be believed or taken seriously. The internal, unconscious monologue goes something like this, "To argue is to be angry! This is how one feels and acts in order to disagree!"

All those years of playing the mediator, she observed how to avoid an argument, and neglected learning how to maturely have an argument.

It's all fine and good to have realized this. But a lifetime of bad thinking seems like quite the hurdle to overcome. Meditation can certainly quell the anger and bring great peace. But I have been unable to use it as a means to find a solution.


Okay, Aspirant, the couch is free;) The good news is, forum based counseling is free, and there's no time limit.:p

Jodhaa
22 August 2012, 01:55 PM
Also, just to clarify, I don't think it would be necessary for anyone to spill their guts about something private or personal. You can simply speak about the mental or systematic steps you took to overcome a bad habit of false thinking.


There's no money in blackmail anyway;)

Viraja
22 August 2012, 02:22 PM
Jodhaa,

I appreciate your reply. My problem is that I was born on the great number 31's influence - you can read any book on numerology, it states number 31 to be the most 'mind-centric' number. I am classically prone to phobias - you name it I have it! Sounds scary? But at the least bothersome, I have fear of heights (I hate flying), water(don't know to swim). Besides I am temperamental, have mood-swings, am a little quick-tempered.

The only thing is that I don't meditate, and as yet have to figure out a solution to my problems!!

But, on the positive side, I pray to god everyday and whether or not it is of substantial duration, there is something about the mantras - their own divine power and inherent healing qualities that helps me very much.

I think you have been actually blessed to have been a neutral-peacemaker and that is a foremost virtue to have. I understand what you say but I have observed those having this virtue, they eventually have their opinions heard well.

Goodluck to you!

Jodhaa
22 August 2012, 02:29 PM
Jodhaa,

I appreciate your reply. My problem is that I was born on the great number 31's influence - you can read any book on numerology, it states number 31 to be the most 'mind-centric' number. I am classically prone to phobias - you name it I have it! Sounds scary? But at the least bothersome, I have fear of heights (I hate flying), water(don't know to swim). Besides I am temperamental, have mood-swings, am a little quick-tempered.

The only thing is that I don't meditate, and as yet have to figure out a solution to my problems!!

But, on the positive side, I pray to god everyday and whether or not it is of substantial duration, there is something about the mantras - their own divine power and inherent healing qualities that helps me very much.

I think you have been actually blessed to have been a neutral-peacemaker and that is a foremost virtue to have. I understand what you say but I have observed those having this virtue, they eventually have their opinions heard well.

Goodluck to you!

Thank you for your reply, Aspirant!

I know next to nothing about numerology, so I can't comment on it much. But I am happy that you pray everyday. It is good to have a connection with the divine. I didn't have one for so many years - I was jealous of those who did.

I have a fear of deep water/drowning, but it is not a situation I encounter much in the Middle of the US, so I don't need to suffer from it much.

Perhaps, it is a matter of practice, or exposure. Being a peacemaker does have spiritual benefits, but I have found it becomes very easy to bury emotions, which is not the same as mastering them. Thank you for your encouragement!

Peace

JaiMaaDurga
22 August 2012, 03:50 PM
Namaste,

I am certainly no great fount of wisdom, but perhaps
sharing some of what was given to me in regards to this
may prove beneficial:
-Becoming, and remaining, unattached to the fruits of one's actions;
This falls under the "Simple does not mean easy" category,
yet has proven essential in my practice. Consider the ancient
method of starting a fire using a hand-drill; those minds that
are inexperienced, impatient, and focused on the result of fire
will be stopping and checking, thereby thwarting themselves,
whereas success is had by those who simply focus on maintaining
the proper speed and pressure.. "See only the eye of the bird"..

Consider also a kitten- does that kitten, in the midst of stalking
a beetle, or pouncing on your foot, think to itself "I am honing and
practicing the skills and reflexes needed for a cat to survive in the wild"?
Of course not- the kitten is simply being itself, playing.

The modern adult human is constantly beset from within by contrast,
sometimes paralyzed by endless mental clamor, the echoes
and multiplying mirrors of subject/object awareness, the mind like
an ant following its own scent trail endlessly in a circle..

No matter how thoroughly or how long one examines an acorn, the
tree remains unknown while the acorn remains above the ground...

JAI MATA DI

Jodhaa
22 August 2012, 04:00 PM
Namaste,

I am certainly no great fount of wisdom, but perhaps
sharing some of what was given to me in regards to this
may prove beneficial:
-Becoming, and remaining, unattached to the fruits of one's actions;
This falls under the "Simple does not mean easy" category,
yet has proven essential in my practice. Consider the ancient
method of starting a fire using a hand-drill; those minds that
are inexperienced, impatient, and focused on the result of fire
will be stopping and checking, thereby thwarting themselves,
whereas success is had by those who simply focus on maintaining
the proper speed and pressure.. "See only the eye of the bird"..

Consider also a kitten- does that kitten, in the midst of stalking
a beetle, or pouncing on your foot, think to itself "I am honing and
practicing the skills and reflexes needed for a cat to survive in the wild"?
Of course not- the kitten is simply being itself, playing.

The modern adult human is constantly beset from within by contrast,
sometimes paralyzed by endless mental clamor, the echoes
and multiplying mirrors of subject/object awareness, the mind like
an ant following its own scent trail endlessly in a circle..

No matter how thoroughly or how long one examines an acorn, the
tree remains unknown while the acorn remains above the ground...

JAI MATA DI

Namaste, Jai Mata Durga,

Thank you for your response.

I will shamefully admit that I am a little confused by your response. My ability to grasp at abstracts is sometimes limited. Are you suggesting that, perhaps I am "thinking too hard" about this apparent flaw I have discovered in myself? That I should let the habit of meditation and gradual self awareness heal the faulty thinking in its own time? That things will "work themselves out" as long as I remain on a consistent spiritual path?

Forgive my ignorance! :) I appreciate your words. I will keep thinking them over and perhaps it will come to me.

Peace!

silence_speaks
25 August 2012, 11:48 PM
Dear Jodhaa,
:)
Its very nice that you sit down with yourself and have recognized the pattern of negative thinking or even positive thinking. Thats in itself an achievement.

I would suggest :
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9667
Please go through it and see if it is useful for you :)

Jodhaa
26 August 2012, 06:56 AM
Dear Jodhaa,
:)
Its very nice that you sit down with yourself and have recognized the pattern of negative thinking or even positive thinking. Thats in itself an achievement.

I would suggest :
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9667
Please go through it and see if it is useful for you :)


Namaste, Silence Speaks,

Thank you for the link! I will have a look at it later once I get a better opportunity!

Peace!

Etheros
06 September 2012, 07:49 PM
I can relate completely to your experience, Jodhaa. I have a very similar personality. I have personally had no luck with combating my thoughts and tendencies, and I have read from many sources that it is actually not recommended, because it could lead to an even more neurotic state of mind. If you are in combat with your thoughts, who's the attacker and who's the defender? This attitude can only create a further split within yourself. I found it best to accept yourself the way you are first. Everyone has shortcomings, don't beat yourself up over it. I think that the fact that you've become aware of this tendency and turned your attention to it will be enough to get yourself over it. Psychological changes aren't brought about in a day, it's unlikely that you can find a magic pill that will have you wake up tomorrow ready to express all your opinions while remaining in a state of serene detachment. I haven't found one personally and haven't heard of anyone who has. But who knows. The way I understand growth is that it's a gradual process, a child can't force himself to become an adult, it just happens with time and experience. If you feel your meditation practice is leading you in the right direction, then you already know what to do.

Jodhaa
07 September 2012, 10:10 AM
I found it best to accept yourself the way you are first. Everyone has shortcomings, don't beat yourself up over it. I think that the fact that you've become aware of this tendency and turned your attention to it will be enough to get yourself over it. The way I understand growth is that it's a gradual process, a child can't force himself to become an adult, it just happens with time and experience. If you feel your meditation practice is leading you in the right direction, then you already know what to do.


Namaste Etheros!

Thank you for your encouraging response. Being a casual student of Psychology myself, I make the mistake of thinking that my own mind should be the easiest to interpret and "fix". You are probably right that the best thing I can do for my own mind is just to be aware of my shortcomings and not to beat myself up about it. It is difficult to let go of the reigns when you recognize a need to grow, but the growth comes slower then you would like.

Your analogy of the growth of a child into an adult reminded me of something as well. At around the age of 11 I went through literal "growing pains". For several months I could not sit without pain. It was discovered that my limbs were growing faster then my spine so that whenever I sat I was stretching my back too much. Eventually the rest of me caught up and I was fine.

Perhaps my ego is trying to grow faster then my intuition and spiritual understanding will allow ;-) Meditation is the hot compress, perhaps;)

Thank you again!
Peace!

Eastern Mind
07 September 2012, 11:12 AM
Vannakkam Jodhaa: As someone else said, congratulations in discovering something about your own mind. This means you are able, at least in some small way, to separate yourself from your mind.

My teacher talked a lot about the mind, and for understanding purposes, separated it into 5 distinct areas. The first two are conscious and subconscious. What you have recognised is an area of the subconscious (memory mind, habits, a sum total of all the impressions of the conscious mind) that you find annoying, or at least something you feel you could do better without, no? The area of the mind you used to do this, he would call the superconscious, or intuitive mind, the one that best understands how to progress on the path to moksha.

He likened it, the subconscious, to a computer, and often used the phrase, 'reprogramming the subconscious mind'. In other words, what you have to do is put into it what you want it to be. This will gradually replace what is already there, and 'locked in' as it may seem. So you start by small things. Find a friend you can have a friendly discussion with, do make-believe, convince yourself that you can and will go outside of that 'comfort zone' you've established so well. Take time; there is no hurry. But eventually you'll be able to go argue or discuss with the best of them.

Best wishes on it.

Aum Namasivaya

Jodhaa
07 September 2012, 01:02 PM
Thank you EM, for your contribution!:)

I spoke with my husband on a recent night out about some of the questions I had on Hinduism and some of the strong opinions I had developed about certain things. (He's Catholic, so I wasn't looking for answers but instead I asked him to be my sounding board :)). One thing I know about myself is that sometimes the answer has always been there, inside me, and that I need to "talk it out" - really hear myself say something in order to know if it feels right or wrong.

What we discovered is that when one only debates an issue inside one's own mind, it is easy rationalize to your ego's benefit. There is no objective "other" to give you a fresh perspective. Then, once a real person with an opposite opinion does exist, it's easy to angrily argue a point that really hasn't been thought through. Your only consultant has been another part of you.

I think also - and this is echoing advice you yourself gave in another thread - one needs to step back and cool down before replying to someone, especially if the topic is sensitive. Clearly, if my emotional reaction is so strong, there's something there that needs to be explored, but perhaps better once one has had time to organize one's thoughts.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I think it's interesting to hear form others on their experiences.

Peace!