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wundermonk
22 August 2012, 01:36 PM
After wiping out the Hindu population in their land, the Mohammedans are onto a 11 year old mentally unbalanced Xian girl. Her crime? She "blasphemed" the Quran.

http://news.yahoo.com/girl-11-could-face-death-pakistan-blasphemy-213643977--abc-news-topstories.html

Allahu Akbar everyone and hope you had a good eid slaughtering some goats and cows.

Omkara
22 August 2012, 01:41 PM
Sad.India must offer asylum and citizenship to all non-muslims living in pakistan on humanitarian grounds.

Viraja
22 August 2012, 02:13 PM
My faith in Islam as a staunch Hindu comes purely from a Bhakta's viewpoint - definitely if our 'Hindu' gods are almighty, they would have equal amount of power and mercy given to the population that is 'non-Hindu' is it not? (Such as being their actual god... I found some saints' viewpoints as confirmatory to this view...). I am like one of those Hindus going to the famous 'Nagur Dargah' on days of Islam festivals but have nothing else to do with Islam after that.

Other than that I really don't know why Quran supposedly abuses other religions so much... and advocates such an ill-treatment of its own women.

I condemn all the barbaric acts Muslims are doing and I hope this 11-yr old come out free soon.

I am sorry to everyone and the moderators of this site if my apparent 'support' (though it wasn't a 'support' really) of Islam earlier offended anyone's faith. I thank everyone's tolerance.

philosoraptor
22 August 2012, 02:23 PM
My faith in Islam as a staunch Hindu comes purely from a Bhakta's viewpoint - definitely if our 'Hindu' gods are almighty, they would have equal amount of power and mercy given to the population that is 'non-Hindu' is it not? (Such as being their actual god... I found some saints' viewpoints as confirmatory to this view...)

I don't understand this viewpoint at all. Why must we assume that the god worshipped by Islam must be a bona fide Vedic deity? Especially when that "god" teaches his followers to do some horrendous things, like hating Jews/idol-worshippers and attacking them wherever they are found, etc.

Our Puranas speak often about the proliferatio of false religions, especially in Kali Yuga. The more I read about the heresies they describe, the more I am inclined to acknowledge how correct they are when I read about "religions" like Islam and Xtianity.

Omkara
22 August 2012, 02:29 PM
Aspirant 01,I have refuted yoyr arguments on 2 different threads now.Have you bothered to go back to tge thread secular India abd see what happened after you ran away from the thread?
You are free to beleive what you likr,but please do not bring this up again on a hindu forum,if you do not bother to defend your views while questioned.

Viraja
22 August 2012, 02:34 PM
Omkaraji,

What do you say I have the only argument to offer you is that I still believe men are different dispositionally and that god offers them means for their betterment in different ways so that eventually with enough good karma, men can be born into Hinduism and ascend spiritually to attain final emancipation?

I already apologized in this thread, so I don't have to do it again, but that's just to say I consider me talking about Islam anymore in HDF is a closed-topic.

Om namo narayanaya!

Omkara
22 August 2012, 02:41 PM
What exactly does that argunent have to do with allah being the same as vishnu.

Viraja
22 August 2012, 02:47 PM
What exactly does that argunent have to do with allah being the same as vishnu.

Well, how about saying I was blessed with some divine intervention and had visions that made me believe so? ;)

(That inference is just from Madhwacharya's and Kabirdas's sayings...)

Jainarayan
22 August 2012, 03:01 PM
Namaste.


I don't understand this viewpoint at all. Why must we assume that the god worshipped by Islam must be a bona fide Vedic deity? Especially when that "god" teaches his followers to do some horrendous things, like hating Jews/idol-worshippers and attacking them wherever they are found, etc.

Our Puranas speak often about the proliferatio of false religions


False religions, not false gods. Maybe it's the humans who have a warped, twisted and perverted view of God, and written bulldookie into their "scriptures"? Has anyone ever considered that? "Even the devil can quote scripture to his purpose", William Shakespeare.

From my p.o.v. to suggest that the God of Jews, Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, Sikhs, the Bahá'í Faith and any other montheistic religion is a God unto itself is to recognize polytheism. After all, don't Hindus protest at being called polytheists?

And no I am not going to invoke "neo-Vedic" ekam sat, as it's been called, though I am a staunch monotheist and believe that God is God, no matter what you call Him. It's what you do with Him and His image that is the problem. There have been peoples over the milennia who knew nothing of Vedic deities or the Vedas and have been as dharmic as anyone could ask for: model Dharmics.

Of course the God of the Bible and Qur'an is not Vedic; those texts are not Vedic. Neither is the Avesta nor the canons of the Bahá'í Faith. The God of those faiths is not Vedic either. The God of the people of Alpha Centauri IV is not Vedic either by Hindu definition, but He's no less God.

C'mon, don't blame God; blame the people.

So with that, I think I'll say no more.

Viraja
22 August 2012, 03:37 PM
I don't understand this viewpoint at all. Why must we assume that the god worshipped by Islam must be a bona fide Vedic deity? Especially when that "god" teaches his followers to do some horrendous things, like hating Jews/idol-worshippers and attacking them wherever they are found, etc.

Our Puranas speak often about the proliferatio of false religions, especially in Kali Yuga. The more I read about the heresies they describe, the more I am inclined to acknowledge how correct they are when I read about "religions" like Islam and Xtianity.

Philosoraptor,

Every man and woman has a soul - and each soul has a 'paramatma' quotient and a 'jeevatma' quotient (from my own understanding). Wouldn't it be the design of the divine to have a handle at each and every soul that walks on earth which means inherently everyone has a 'god' and it is only that, as Jainarayan said, that god has a different name?

I am open and agree to some extent to see the viewpoint of kaliyuga but it still does not seem quite right that the divine actually would create souls that is not under its control or a soul that cannot communicate with the creator even with great efforts...

philosoraptor
22 August 2012, 04:27 PM
Philosoraptor,

Every man and woman has a soul - and each soul has a 'paramatma' quotient and a 'jeevatma' quotient (from my own understanding).

Each man and woman is a soul that happens to have a body of man/woman based on its previous karma. Within each soul there dwells the Paramatma.



Wouldn't it be the design of the divine to have a handle at each and every soul that walks on earth which means inherently everyone has a 'god' and it is only that, as Jainarayan said, that god has a different name?

Well, frankly speaking, no. There really is no reason to assume that God would create a religion to accomodate everyone, as there are plenty of people who want nothing to do with religion, while others want religion for reasons that have nothing to do with liberation (communal acceptance, peer-pressure, to give rationalization for one's darker tendencies, etc).

Really, Aspirant, it's quite a stretch to suggest that because Paramatma dwells in each soul, therefore there must be a religion for each soul to follow and Islam is one such religion.



I am open and agree to some extent to see the viewpoint of kaliyuga but it still does not seem quite right that the divine actually would create souls that is not under its control or a soul that cannot communicate with the creator even with great efforts...

Well first of all, God does not *create* souls. That concept of creation is of Judeo-Christian origin. In reality, souls are eternal and thus without beginning - hence nityo nityANAm chetanash chetaNANAm (kaThopaniShad). Secondly, a soul's decision to remain in association with matter and nescience is the cause of its inability to communicate with God. If the soul has a sincere desire to know Him, He will know about it and make the appropriate arrangements. But if he choses to remain in ignorance, then he will get a lower birth, such as a birth in a family of people following a false, mleccha religion.

The Islamic god teaches its followers to hate jews, to attack "polytheists" and "idol-worshippers" and to subjugate them in various ways. These are not the teachings of a compassionate, all-embracing Deity, now are they?

philosoraptor
22 August 2012, 04:38 PM
False religions, not false gods. Maybe it's the humans who have a warped, twisted and perverted view of God, and written bulldookie into their "scriptures"? Has anyone ever considered that? "Even the devil can quote scripture to his purpose", William Shakespeare.

This is nothing more than conjecture. We know nothing about the Islamic god beyond what is spoken of in the Islamic scripture. To suggest that the Islamic scripture is perverted by human intervention, and that the Islamic god is in some sense genuine, is to claim access to a body of knowledge about his nature which even his followers don't have.



From my p.o.v. to suggest that the God of Jews, Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, Sikhs, the Bahá'í Faith and any other montheistic religion is a God unto itself is to recognize polytheism. After all, don't Hindus protest at being called polytheists?

Your first problem is that you don't understand what polytheism is - it refers to *one* religion embracing the existence of many deities. Your second problem is that you assume references to "Christian god" or "islamic god" imply that these are real entities. In fact, nothing of the sort is implied. They could be fictitious concepts wrongly attributed to those of a supreme deity. Or they could be real entities who are not the supreme deity but are merely mistaken as such.



And no I am not going to invoke "neo-Vedic" ekam sat, as it's been called,

The "ekam sat" mantra from the Rig Veda is not "neo-Vedic." Only the incorrectly fashionable interpretation claiming that it implies that Allah and Jehova are also the same Brahman, is.



though I am a staunch monotheist and believe that God is God, no matter what you call Him. It's what you do with Him and His image that is the problem.


Here is what the Koranic "god" tells his followers to do to non-believers:

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

That so-called god who gave such a violent, bloody directive has no business being equated to the supreme Brahman of the Vedas.

Viraja
22 August 2012, 06:22 PM
Thank you for your views, Philosoraptor. I will give a revision to my beliefs with your clarification. (I do secretly wish I know Quran well as per my understanding so that I can know what is stated there).