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Ninendiva
04 October 2012, 02:28 AM
Hi there!

I'll cut to the chase here. I have tried meditating many times throughout my life, for religious, spiritual, or psychological purpose - and it has never been an easy task. I have anxiety disorder, and although it is now at a manageable level where I do not require medication, my brain is still very much an anxiety zone. I find this makes meditation very difficult. Does anyone have tips or experiences in this area? Being that anxiety disorder is the most prevalent mental health condition, perhaps others can tell me how they overcame this and were able to meditate :)

For those who have not experienced it or know anyone with it, I'd like to state that it is not a matter of lack of self discipline or focus. My mind and thoughts are very much out of my control. I have experienced this during prayer since a young age and it was the first way I noticed something was 'wrong'. My mind runs on one track (Dear Lord, thank you for...) as I pray, but the background noise (music in my head, other thoughts, what is that smell? What will I eat tomorrow? What about that test...) comes up and makes it hard to have intentional, controlled thoughts. It is extremely hard to silence your mind, when you don't have "control" over what you are thinking!

Ironically enough, meditation is supposed to help with anxiety issues. :p I was never able to make use of this! Thank you for reading and I look forward to your thoughts.

Jodhaa
04 October 2012, 01:16 PM
Namaste!

I can certainly sympathize with your anxiety as I have lived with anxiety most of my life. Like you I no longer need medication. But my mind still races. However, meditation has helped me and I do manage to quiet myself for a period of about 15-20 minutes but like anything else it takes practice. However, one thing I find that helps someone with an active mind meditate is to start with visual meditation. The ultimate point of meditation is to empty the mind, but I find that when people start out they just need to calm the mind first!

Try using your active mind to visualize a serene setting - a beach with crashing waves, a quite forest in the morning by a brook. My favorite is to imagine I am sitting in the dark at night near a campfire, just listening to the sizzle of the flames.

If you have trouble getting into this you can also try guided meditation. I used a website way back that helped me a lot. It offers free meditation podcasts. I would put on headphones, sit or lay down nearby and close my eyes. The link is below if you want to try it!

I think this is a common problem, particularly in the west where we are all hyper stimulated all the time.


Peace!

Meditation Oasis Website: http://www.meditationoasis.com/

Mana
04 October 2012, 05:07 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Ninendiva,


You know the most effective meditation is performed throughout the day, at work or at home, with friends or whilst doing
your shopping at all times.
A calm mind is a result of this meditation, it is not the practise itself, the art is in finding or realising God conciousness, this
will remove anxiety as the very same energy in you is channelled to more useful functions, such as love.

So how do we go about finding God conciousness? The best place to start is by knowing your self, apparently you are already
overcoming anxiety to the extent that you mention; so you are on the right path. The fact that you have suffered indicates
that you are very subjective by nature, a good starting point for becoming aware. Awareness being the key for efficient
meditation.

Chose the calmest activities you can and avoid all stressful situations and people, when you can maintain a "balance in your
posture" move up to more vigorous activities, but always maintaining that posture. Its not easy and we often fall, but concious
awareness of this posture is meditation ...

Learn about your introverted and extroverted nature. Know when you are in each state; become aware of these changes,
these shifts can trigger anxiety.

I have found this to be extremely effective in calming my mind, to become more focused and one pointed in my otherwise
scattered creative, thought and perspective.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

devotee
05 October 2012, 05:38 AM
Namaste Ninendiva,

You will be surprised to know that mind is, bay nature, calm but we train it to become restless. You may say that you didn't do anything to make it restless in this lifetime ... but one life is just a link in chain of many lives we live. So, if it is inborn in this lifetime, you have carried this samskAr from your past lives.

However, the biggest assurance is that you can learn to be calm. Meditation is one of the right step in itself to calm your mind as it actively tries to focus the mind on one object/thought. However, we must understand the nature of mind to be able to control it effectively. What are the factors that disturb our mind ... there are many ... I will name a few and you can identify what disturbs you the most :

a) Fear : Fear of losing life, getting hurt, losing a friend/relative etc. etc.

===> This is one the biggest irrational fear that disturbs us. Why irrational ? Because most of the times we are afraid of things which are not in our control. Now, when the factor is not in my control ... why to be afraid of it ? You have no option but to accept the outcome ... so be ready for that. Tell yourself ... "What worst can come of it" ... then visualise it and face the worst in your mind.

Sometimes we can do something to control the outcome that we are afraid of . Then also the fear is irrational ... why ? Because we should do our best to avoid the outcome as situation is going to be worse by not doing anything and keep worrying .... and why worry until the worst has surfaced ???

b) Excitement :

We must be able to take things easy ... howsoever exciting it might be. Why ? Because every state is constantly changing and every joy is but shortlived. Why to be so overjoyed over anything which is so short-lived ??

etc.

etc.

I am not going to bore you by giving sermons on various stimuli which are responsible for disturbing our mind ... what I wanted to say is that by a little of courage and confronting the factors in our head with right logic, we can easily see the irrationality of harbouring such thoughts and getting disturbed by it. It is all within you. You have the power to do it.

Finally, it takes years of constant practice to bring mind into control. So, have a lot of patience. The result will certainly come as you want ... but it will take time and there will be many slippage ... so don't get disheartened.

OM

squidgirl
05 October 2012, 07:16 AM
Ninendiva,
I have the same problem....I can be chanting, focusing on each word INTENTLY AND focusing my eyes on an image, but still in the background all those little "I don't like spiders", "blue is so nice" thoughts keep popping in. It IS hard! ;)

Namaste

Amrut
05 October 2012, 07:35 AM
Hi there!

I'll cut to the chase here. I have tried meditating many times throughout my life, for religious, spiritual, or psychological purpose - and it has never been an easy task. I have anxiety disorder, and although it is now at a manageable level where I do not require medication, my brain is still very much an anxiety zone. I find this makes meditation very difficult. Does anyone have tips or experiences in this area? Being that anxiety disorder is the most prevalent mental health condition, perhaps others can tell me how they overcame this and were able to meditate :)

For those who have not experienced it or know anyone with it, I'd like to state that it is not a matter of lack of self discipline or focus. My mind and thoughts are very much out of my control. I have experienced this during prayer since a young age and it was the first way I noticed something was 'wrong'. My mind runs on one track (Dear Lord, thank you for...) as I pray, but the background noise (music in my head, other thoughts, what is that smell? What will I eat tomorrow? What about that test...) comes up and makes it hard to have intentional, controlled thoughts. It is extremely hard to silence your mind, when you don't have "control" over what you are thinking!

Ironically enough, meditation is supposed to help with anxiety issues. :p I was never able to make use of this! Thank you for reading and I look forward to your thoughts.

Namaste,

I regularly meditate, so I understand your problem.

Meditation is not for everybody. That is why Karma Kand i.e. work as worship is given by sages, since we cannot stay without work.

Please understand that in meditation, we try to calm our mind. When the mind is at peace, it will show it's true nature. It is a kind of cage for mind. It is a question of life and death for mind. In tatva bodh, Sri Adi Shankaracharya says, mind is nothing but continuous flow of thoughts.

The problem comes when mind finds nothing to cling. If you replace one activity by another, it's not a problem since mind will remain active, but if you do not give any activity, mind will try to hunt it and will create one. Mind begins to wander when it’s free. It tries to occupy itself, with thoughts and other stuff.

If it’s getting difficult, then better perform Puja.

Puja is like a 3 wheeled bicycle. With hands you clap or hold aarti, you chant mantra and perform rituals

Then comes Japa: It is like 2 wheeled cycle. You chant the name and you here it nad be aware of God

Last is Nidhihyasana: It is one wheeled cycle. Difficult to balance. It is for Jnana marga. In this you follow neti-neti or chant Aum and then things takes control. You just here Aum and then mind is drawn into the source of mantra, or in case of neti-neti, find the origin, root cause and everything dissolves in the root. So basically you just here it – Just one thing i.e. awareness of mantra.

I think, you should not quite any work. Perform work as worship. Surrender every work you do to God. Also surrender every fruit to God. Whatever is the result of your effort, positive or negative, is the Prasad (blessing) given by God.

Time to time, visit holy places, become active member or volunteer in a spiritual organization. Feed Poor, keep company of saints, visit temple regularly, etc.

Generally, people enter into depression or under anxiety when life do not go as they want it. Things do not happen in their way instead of their efforts. So they get dejected. If you surrender everything to God, then work will becomes worship. When you are not much concerned with result of your effort, your mind will not agitate too much. You won’t become anxious or are under stress. If you are down, you will soon recover, as you will convince your mind that I have done the best I can. I have evaluated what mistakes I have made. Next time, I will try hard. What is the result, is the blessing of God. I accept it. This will calm down mind.

Remember, Doing any kriya like concentrating on a photo of God or an chakra is different, then actual meditation.

If you want to do Japa, then use Japa Mala and count the number of beads along with mantra and also be aware of the idol in your heart i.e. heart chakra which is at centre of chest or simply visualize the face of deity whose mantra you are chanting. Since mind is occupied in 3 things – mala, chanting of mantra and visualization of God, it will not try to find anything more.

Incase you just want peace of mind and want all stress to be removed, then people have found ‘Art of Living’ by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar effective.

Aum

IS

AmIHindu
05 October 2012, 10:18 AM
Hi there!

I have anxiety disorder, and although it is now at a manageable level.........my brain is still very much an anxiety zone. I find this makes meditation very difficult. Does anyone have tips or experiences in this area?

Namaste,

Of course Mediation is very much difficult. I do not have any tips for you but a long term PRACTICE, rather long term SPIRITUAL PRACTICE.
Long again, may go to from 6 months to 2 years and then after keep doing the same to protect ourselves.

You will be able to come out of this with patience and perseverance.

I give below website link, it shows case study, if you like please contact them.

I do chanting with them.

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/articles/id/case-study/overcomming-anxiety#4Youngadultyearslosingcontrol

Gratitude.

Amrut
05 October 2012, 10:49 AM
Ninendiva,
I have the same problem....I can be chanting, focusing on each word INTENTLY AND focusing my eyes on an image, but still in the background all those little "I don't like spiders", "blue is so nice" thoughts keep popping in. It IS hard! ;)

Namaste

Namaste,

You just ignore them. The more you try to avoid them or try to give them importance, the more will they trouble you. What matters is to which thought you give importance. Even if your mind is full of thoughts, you can surrender all thoughts to God and just be aware and then chant the mantra. Even by just being aware, thoughts loose their power.

If you still can't meditate, then please refer my above reply i.e. Post #6

squidgirl
05 October 2012, 05:45 PM
Namaste,

What a great thread! And thank you for that advice!

Keep it coming!:D

Ninendiva
05 October 2012, 11:59 PM
Namaste Ninendiva,

You will be surprised to know that mind is, bay nature, calm but we train it to become restless.

oh, this is not something I am surprised by! The unfortunate thing is that a lot of mental training I must overcome (anxiety, insecurity, self-esteem) was not trained by me, but by the situations of my childhood. But I do not blame anyone, or look back on those times and only focus on those. I know all I can do to heal is move forward, and God and my loved ones help me do this. :) Thought I would explain this.

Indiaspirituality, Thank you so much for your post. It was extremely helpful. I have to admit since I am still new, I do not know what many words mean, besides puja, but this is why I have the internet. :) I can learn. and I think your suggestion of moving from three-wheel, two-wheel, one-wheel and maybe some day no-wheel bike will help me very much.

Amrut
07 October 2012, 06:16 AM
Indiaspirituality, Thank you so much for your post. It was extremely helpful. I have to admit since I am still new, I do not know what many words mean, besides puja, but this is why I have the internet. :) I can learn. and I think your suggestion of moving from three-wheel, two-wheel, one-wheel and maybe some day no-wheel bike will help me very much.

Namaste,

If you have doubt or do not understand any words, please do not hesitate to ask. I have studied in my mother tongue and so sometimes I am short of words when I translate in English or sometimes I am comfortable typing Gujarati / Hindi / Sanskrit words.

Spirituality is the only filed where one wins only by losing. The more you rush, the slower you progress or sometimes your life moves in reverse gear.

Give yourself some time. Do not rush, but do not be lazy.

Do not expect shortcuts. All these problems are there to shape and train your mind. To make it stronger.

e.g. while learning martial arts, when you are hit first time, it pains a lot. But next time, you do not get hurt as compared to the first time you were hit.

Repeating things will shape your mind.

Imagine a grass field. People want to cross the field every now and then. So they begin to walk in a straight line. After some time, there is a pag-dandi i.e. foot path - a narrow road, where grass is either bend or has been uprooted naturally. Since one repeatedly walks on same path, grass never grows on that path.

Same is the case with mind. Mind does not like stress. So instead of adapting ot nature, we try to change the nature

e.g. A.C - Air Conditioner.

Once which was a luxury is now a necessity. You find A.C. in malls, offices, cars and even in bed rooms. There is a big market of convenience products in America, because of this fact. This is the direction of technology.

Now when cell phones are common, unlike older generations who remembered 30-40 telephone numbers, we can hardly remember 5-6 numbers.

Same with knowing new words, since they are just a click away. So mind does not consider it as important enough to store it, as it is easily search-able in short time.

In spirituality, it's opposite. Always remember, neutral mind is strong mind, forgiving mind is strong mind. It's not a sign of weak mind. As a neutral and let-go habit keeps mind stable. Stable mind can contemplate / meditate.

It takes time to switch over. Just do not lose patience and always remember 'GOD EXITS' :) - Never loose faith :)

Aum

IS

Amrut
07 October 2012, 06:59 AM
Namaste,

Shared my thoughts about meditation in the thread Questions : First Session (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=92902&posted=1#post92902) in Post #5 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=92902&postcount=5)

Also have a look at other replies

Amrut
07 October 2012, 07:16 AM
Useful Posts:

also refer to the post Sadhana (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9795)

My thoughts in

Post #8 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=88354&postcount=8)
Post #9 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=88354&postcount=9)
Post #12 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=88354&postcount=12)
Post #13 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=88354&postcount=13)
Post #30 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=88354&postcount=30)
Post #40 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=88354&postcount=8)


Another thread Serious questions relating to having eyes closed in meditation (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9748)
Post #6 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=87746&postcount=6)

Yet another thread

Questions : First Session (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=10329) in Post #5 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=92902&postcount=5)

And Thread

Meditation & The Restless Mind (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=10322)

Post #6 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=92858&postcount=6) and Post #11 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=92901&postcount=11)

Eastern Mind
07 October 2012, 07:51 AM
Vannakkam: I think that within certain circles, meditation is presented as something you really need to be doing to be a successful Hindu, or even person. Within that circle of words, area of consciousness, there is a pressure to meditate. Things like, 'If you're not meditating, you're not serious' or 'everybody meditates, why can't you?"

Its almost like some childhood competition, or daring going on. So then with all that in the air, newcomers, even old-timers, a lot of people somehow feel like failures because they can't.

Can anyone here do advance skateboard tricks? Do we put pressure on ourselves to be able to? Why not.

Meditation, according to Patanjali, is not the starting point. Its an advanced stage. There are many steps that come before it. So why would somebody be unhappy if they are unable to do an advanced technique straight away? http://www.expressionsofspirit.com/yoga/eight-limbs.htm Some see it as limbs, other see it as stages or steps. Meditation in the way being described here is step 7 of 8. Kind of like starting the kindergarten kid right out on calculus.

In my opinion, its because of this pressure from teachers, from yoga gurus, etc.

I'm not saying one should just give up. I'm saying don't put unrealistic expectations on yourself.

I would say the key is to be content with what you can do, not frustrated with what you cannot do.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
07 October 2012, 08:22 AM
There are many ways to meditate. You can meditate on any object, but not every object can give you grace to further your progress. That is why meditation on Ishvara is supreme. Meditation on Ishvara is part of both patanjali's kriya yoga (tapa, svadhyaya and ishvara pranidhana) and his ashtanga yoga. Around 10 percent of the yoga sutras deal with meditation on Ishvara. Many people go to Buddhism to look for meditation practices, because meditation in modern times has become associated with sitting cross legged and watching your breath and this is what is most developed in Buddhism. In Hinduism meditation is much larger and even doing karma is a form of meditation, as Krishna tells Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, mamanusmara yuddhya cha. "Fight while remembering me." The magnificence of the universe itself is a vibhuti of Ishvara and this can be recognised in everyday life.

One shloka by Shankaracharya illustrates this idea:

AtmA tvaM girijA matiH sahacharAH prANAH sharIraM gR^ihaM
pUjA te viShayopabhogarachanA nidrA samAdhisthitiH |
sa~nchAraH padayoH pradakshiNavidhiH stotrANi sarvA giro
yadyatkarma karomi tattadakhilaM shambho tavArAdhanam.h

You are my Self, Parvati is my intellect. My vital breaths are Your
attendants, My body is Your house, and all the pleasures enjoyed by
my senses are materials for Your puja. My sleep is Your state of
samaadhI. Wherever I walk, I am circumambulating You, Everything I
say is a hymn of praise to You, Everything I do is in devotion to
You oh Shambhu!

Sitting cross legged for 20 minutes a day does not make one a meditator, meditation in Hinduism goes much further than that.

Amrut
07 October 2012, 09:33 AM
+1 EM and Sahasrnama

There is religion and there is spirituality.

Religion opens doors to spirituality

Karma Kand and other rituals are there to steady the mind adn make is ready for core meditation on the supreme.

Meditation is an integral part of spirituality, but as said, it is for advanced meditators.

Instead of trying things that you are not prepared to, better try to prepare yourself, so that in future you are qualified adn capable of meditating.

One should be able to meditate for 45 minutes on first day / first try. This is the sign that your mind is prepared to meditate. It does not matter if you regularly cannot sit properly up to 45 minutes, but in first attempt, God helps one to judge.

Better do Karma Kand, as earlier said.

Spirituality is direct dealing with mind. When worldly thoughts decreases, one can chant God's name.

One can meditate if one has subtle intellect or pure mind. Subtle intellect is for ones practising Jnana marj and I find it difficult to explain and is often taken in wrong context i.e. one has to be intellegent. In spirituality, the wise man is the one who can discriminate between Atman and An-Atman (Atma-Anatma Vivek) and not the one with photographic memory or the one who is highly intellegent who can remember everything he reads.

I prefer pure mind, pure mind is the one which longs for God. Only God is important to you and not worldly thing.

Sri Anandmoyi Maa says, rather than dropping everything, better just cling to God. It is the force of attraction towards God that will drop worldly things from mind. One does not need ot drop it. Same thing is said by Sri Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna also said that increase bhakti, keep God in centre of life and as your only God.

Rest is taken care of.

Aum

Anirudh
07 October 2012, 11:05 PM
In my view :

Meditation is lot simpler than many of us think. I am inclined to conclude that we humans tend to complicate things.

Meditation Techniques (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4thsq2m0ic)

If you go through the comment section, you can find the English version.

I am following this for about an year or so although was introduced to meditation in my early twenties by my Guru. I feel the instruction given in this video s pretty easy to follow and in my personal experience it is an effective approach.

Hope I didn't hijack the thread nor offended any ones wisdom here.

Best Regards

Anirudh

Eastern Mind
09 October 2012, 10:29 AM
In my view :

Meditation is lot simpler than many of us think. I am inclined to conclude that we humans tend to complicate things.


Vannakkam: I think this statement is totally dependent on one's definition of meditation. So I would agree what what you say for the simpler forms of 'meditation' like relaxation, or pondering on a subject, but for dhyana as per Patanjali, I wouldn't call it simple at all. Well, the concept itself might be simple, but that's not that easy to do.

Aum Namasivaya

Amrut
09 October 2012, 12:01 PM
Namaste,

I have not looked into 1 hr long video, but agree with EM and partly you too.

Meditation is straight forward, but we have trained our mind to keep hunting for objects and issues.

This is the reason why meditation is difficult, though it is a straightforward process.

Swami Sukhbodhananda said that, "To be make noise one has to make an effort, but to remain silent, what kind of effort does one have to make? To clap, you have to make effort, but to remain silent what kind of effort do you need? no effort is needed. So technically remaining silent is more easy. But practically, one cannot remain silent, so remaining silent is difficult, thought it looks easy."

Our daily life is an extrovert life and mind is clinging to 5 sense through body. Mind satisfies it's demands through body. Body eats and happiness, satisfaction is experienced by Mind. Body does not say, I am happy. Mind says, I am happy, sad, etc.

Meditation is turning an extrovert mind into an introvert mind. Senses are pulled back. This i reverse of what mind is already doing since ages. So it reacts back. This tug-of-war makes meditation difficult. When the mind itself wants to go inside (it's not intellect or heart), then meditation is very easy.

If you do any process like being aware of chakras from bottom to top one-by-one, then it is easy. But to just remain still and do nothing, just be an observer is difficult.

In first case, one kriya (action) is substituted by another one. So it's not that problem. But if you do not do any kind of action, mind finds nothing to cling to and hence it goes wild, trying to break free.

Everyone knows what has to be done, but mind is so powerful, that you cannot apply what you intellect decides. This is the power of mind.

No matter how much intellegent you are. If you are badly hurt, you cannot meditate. That incident of humiliation will keep repeating and till you find a solution or a way to square-off or a way to prove yourself innocent, mind will not be at peace. The more you try to avoid thoughts, the more mind will react.

It is like soda, the more you compress, more it is pressurized. When the pressure is released, soda blasts upwards. Same is with mind. Mind will bounce back strongly when just like a compressed spring bounces up when the pressure is released.

So to new meditators (and not so new meditators), the teacher has to keep reminding one and the same thing again and again to get students car back on track. This is why reputation is necessary.

Just reading Gita intellectually once or twice wont help you in meditation. It is this constant reading that keeps you or brings you back on track.

Same thing is repeatedly said in scriptures. Why? Read Vivekchudamani. It sounds repetitive to intellectuals. In Gita, Arjuna asks same question in different ways again and again and Krishna answers them. Why? Was Arjuna Dumb? No. Because mind does not walk the path intellect decides. So mind has to be convinced. Mind tries to escape and it needs to be brought back.

4 vedas are just 4 great Statements - Maha Vakyas. Then why is the need to expand them into million verses. Then again there is end part of vedas called vedanta or Upnishads. Why summarize the whole thing again and again? Lets take e.g. of Gold Smith.

Gold Smith uses small hammer and gives small repeated blows to mould hot gold. Heated Gold is like screwed up mind. It is right time to hit. The hammer are the words of Guru and Shastras. Shastras repeat same thing indifferent ways. All shastras say same thing, arrive at same truth, but examples are different adn may be approach is different. Why? It is like constant hammering that is necessary to shape the mind.

Explanation of being neutral, let-go, forgiveness is most needed when you are hurt. So when you are hurt and listen of Shat-Sampatti, which has perseverance and tolerance, it impacts you deeply. You may have read it many times in past, but the impact of it is not much. Now you are hurt. You know you have to leave the past behind and move forward and are looking for a solution. You live a spiritual life and so read shastras, but mind is looking for ways to come of out the situation and you read Shat-Sampatti and ... your eyes open wide. You immediately apply it, surrender everything to God and then move forward.

This is why repeated reading and satsang with realized souls is necessary. Discussion on Sat-Sampatti wont help, but, as it is said, when the oil is hot, sprinkle water, as it will produce sound. It is right moment for one to listen to sat-sampatti. Sprinkling of water in cold oil will not result into anything. I do not say discussions are useless, or one should read only when one is distressed, I say that, just like when exams are approaching, one studies seriously and remembers well (as you never take it seriously until pressure builds up - it happens to me ;) ), so does the reading of shastras when you need them most or when incident has happened helps a lot.

This is the reason why, one should ask questions, when in jeopardy. In Sanatan Dharma, there are no DOs and DON'Ts. One is free to ask anything. Answer depends upon the mental status and the prakruti of the questioner.

This calms down mind and one is able to easily meditate. Meditation happens is good when Mind is calm and does not hunt for any issues or for any solution. Love for God, surrender drags mind introverts and throws out all the worldly thoughts.

There is not short-cut. One cannot expect a 'U' turn in life. Give your mind some time. Be determined but do not force your mind, convince it. Just like a ball dropped from height does not stay on ground immediately on ground, but bounces back, so does the mind will react and drag you and make you extrovert. But every time the ball returns back, the force of bounce decreases adn finally mind comes to rest. In the same way, mind also calms down. Meditation is like waves. There are good days and there are bad days. Bad days does not means there is no progress. It is a part of progress. Progress only stops when the path is diverted, because the goal is changed, else just effort counts, rest is left to God.

When there are less or no thoughts this straight forward meditation becomes easy. When the mind behaves like mad monkey, meditation is like living in hell. You just want to get out of room. Our is monkey mind, which needs ot be tamed by regular practice, regular and repeated reading and study of shastras and regular visit and guidance form our Guru. Just like meditation is an integral part of spirituality, constant surrender, strong faith, devotion and love for God, regular prayers are also an integral part of spirituality

Shortcut methods which give you quick results are nothing but illusion. They cannot uproot desires, but for sometime, make them dormant and fills mind with happiness. When one comes out this this state, there is no permanent transformation. Just like if you want to burn anything, you HAVE to take adhara (support / help) of Agni (fire), so if you want to up-root the desires, you HAVE to chant God's name- be it God with or without form or it's shakti.

Meditation will become easy as desires decreases. Less the number of desires, more is the peace.

Doing Kriya or ritual is not in strict sense a meditation, though people also call parikrama as sadhana. It is just a statement of encouragement, but actual meditaion or sadhana is to sit and chant God's name or Chant OM or do Neti-Neti (Nidhidhyasana) or activate Kundalini as per classical Patanjali Yog Sutras.

The ways given by Shastras are tried and trusted and after thousands of years of R & D, realized saints have put them in shastras for us. Shastras are authentic and applicable even today. We have to trust them. Only a realized Guru can teach you actual meditation and the essence of shastras. So pray to God to give guide our spiritual journey. When right time comes, God will bless us with a Realized Guru.

So all are needed, Sadhana (for realization, knowledge and experience), study of scripture (for direction and clarity), Guru and God. Only then progress is possible. Progress is not possible only by meditation.

Sorry if I am off-topic, but I get lost when I start typing and most of the time I get logged out :). But I prefer to keep the writing as it is.

Aum

IS

Eastern Mind
09 October 2012, 01:11 PM
Progress is not possible only by meditation.



Vannakkam IS: Yes, a nice long ramble. I read it all, but this sentence is what struck me. I know others will differ, but I certainly believe this. A balanced approach is needed.

Aum Namasivaya

Amrut
10 October 2012, 02:05 AM
Vannakkam IS: Yes, a nice long ramble. I read it all, but this sentence is what struck me. I know others will differ, but I certainly believe this. A balanced approach is needed.

Aum Namasivaya

Vannakkam EM,

Thank you Thank you ... for reading long article :D

What you say is is true. A balanced approach is needed.

Initially, even moderation is necessary.

Aum

squidgirl
10 October 2012, 08:43 AM
Indiaspirituality....I loved your post! Ramble away! LOL...I keep trying to give reputation but it seems it is always on your posts and I need to spread it around...ahahaha!:D

Amrut
10 October 2012, 10:51 AM
Indiaspirituality....I loved your post! Ramble away! LOL...I keep trying to give reputation but it seems it is always on your posts and I need to spread it around...ahahaha!:D

Thank you @squidgirl :)

Probably you could give reputation to yourself :D :crazy:

I do not expect reputation, so I have disabled it ;)

Jokes apart, I would be happy if my thoughts are useful to you or to anyone


__/ \__

Aum

yajvan
13 October 2012, 06:10 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


I'll cut to the chase here. I have tried meditating many times throughout my life, for religious, spiritual, or psychological purpose - and it has never been an easy task. I have anxiety disorder, and although it is now at a manageable level where I do not require medication, my brain is still very much an anxiety zone. I find this makes meditation very difficult.
This post is not only for the initial poster but for those that may experience some ~roughness~ when beginning their practice.


The mind is quite plyable. It takes on different conditions. Yet within the pratice of yoga¹ we find
some of the ~states~ the aspirant (paśu¹ or perhaps pramātṛ¹) may experience.

Many here on HDF have mentioned ' I cannot settle down the mind, it keeps churning'. This is not
unusual, yet it ( over time) must be corrected so that stillness insues and one is able to experience
the smooth transition to silience.
What are those states of mind that may occur ?

kṣipta - scattered, distracted or absence of mind ; this word can also mean kṣapā́ or night ( the darkness of mind)
mūḍha - stupefied , bewildered , perplexed , or confusion of mind
vikṣipta - scattered ; being dispersed in different places
ekāgra - one pointed
nirodha - arrested; restrained , in check or controlledNote from the list above it goes from scattered (kṣipta) to finally arrested, managed or controlled. The more
appropriate term I think is absorbed ( samādhi). What is of great interest is these 5 conditions can occur in
one 'sitting' of meditation. These conditions may also occur outside of one's meditation with eyes open.

So with the next few posts and if there is interest, we will address some of these ideas and see if there can be some value had for the reader.


praṇām

words

yoga here is not hatha yoga, but that which is called out in patañjali’s yogadarśana
paśu - lit. a bound animal; this is another name for the human condition; one bound to the senses and body
pramātṛ - one who has a correct notion or idea , authority , performer of (the mental operation resulting in a) true conception

yajvan
15 October 2012, 10:36 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



The grouping of mind functions can, in general, be divided into two camps ( using patañjali’s yogadarśana thinking):

kliṣṭa - afflicted or in distress ; connected with pain or suffering
akliṣṭa - untroubled, undisturbed.It is the kliṣṭa condition (based upon the 5 kleśa-s which we will call out) that causes the mind to fluctuate, to become disturbed, to not settle down into its original condition of Being, silence, stillness. It is due to these kleśa-s that impressions are made within the mind that have staying power. These impressions are called saṁskāra-s¹.

Before going further here, lets call out the 5 kleśa-s (per the yogasūtra-s, chapter 2 starting with the 3rd sūtra):

avidyā - ignorance of the real nature of Self
asmitā - egoism , being possessed of the feeling of 'me'
rāga - attachment via desire; undue affection or sympathy for , vehement desire of ; This word is rooted in rañj meaning the act of coloring or dyeing ; We see how it applies; we are colored or jaded ( over-shadowed) by the attachments or the desire for things
dveṣa - hatred , dislike , repugnance - negitivity that capures the mind
abhisiveśa - this is called fear of death, but the word actually means 'adherence to, affection' - hense the clinging to life.We can see without too much effort how these 5 kleśa-s can cause a perturbed mind , to the point of not being able to settle down.

All these troubles we have, all the tumult that life brings, how can any one settle down. What then brings akliṣṭa ? We will take this up in the next post.


praṇām

words

1. saṁskāra - the faculty of memory , deep mental impressions; impression on the mind of acts done in a former state of existence or condition; some tell us these saṁskāra-s are so profound they continue from birth-to-birth

Amrut
20 October 2012, 04:16 AM
Today, I read the quotre on my Blog (http://indiaspirituality.blogspot.in/) by Sri Ramakrishna

Some persons must perform selfless work a long time before they can practice dispassion and direct their minds to the spiritual ideal. P. 267

- Sri Ramakrishna