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yajvan
11 February 2007, 04:30 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

' will do only [I]japa then the mind will flit here and there. By doing dhyana (contemplation / meditation) the mind shuts, therefore you should set in motion both japa and dhyana together.'
from 'Amrita-Kana' Droplets of Nectar - Swami Brahamanda Saraswati, Shankaracharya of Jyotir Matt


This clearly informs the sadhu of the proper combination of japa and meditation. What does Swami-ji mean by 'shut' - It means, outside distractions to not impede one's progress. That is, the mind finds delight within. Setting in motion japa and dhyana together is one proper way of launching mantra meditation.

pranams,

sm78
12 February 2007, 01:34 AM
I'm not qualified to speak on these things, but (based on what i have heard) secret instruction of doing japa is laksyaveda or lakkhaveda ... it means chanting 100,000 times or more ~ but the actual inner meaning is doing japa while fixing attention on the 3 points: Guru (sahsarara/paduka* chakra), mantra (throat chakra) and devta (anahata/heart chakra).

There is no japa siddhi without lakkhaveda which is an advanced meditation.

May be qualified sadak can explain, but perhaves not much in an online forum.

yajvan
09 June 2007, 09:25 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste sadaka,

I am not certain on how many HDF participants meditate. For those that do, have you ever wondered why sound/vibration/mantra's are used as a technique? One may say Yantra's can be used and this too is a technique. Yet this notion of sound has been the vehicle for eons. Why so? It is based on the notion of transcendence and subtlety of the tattva's.
With each tattva ( ~element) there is something subtler behind it. Lets take a look.
Earth - smell - nose
Water - taste - tongue
Fire - sight - eyes
Air - touch - skin, fingers
Space - sound - Hearing

As you inspect the list above you can see how earth ( really the name for material existence, form, shape, definition) is at the top in terms of gross matter. 'Gross' here has no negative connotation. It is just more 'compact' matter. What is subtler then earth? Water or fluid principle. It has less boundaries, flows, assumes the shape of the container, yes? It's less rigid. Subtler then water is tejas or fire principle of heat, energy, etc. and is less bound. Subtler then tejas or fire is Air ( vayu) with less and less boundaries and shape has little hold on it, yet it fills our lungs, balloons, the atmosphere. Last and sublter then the above is space or aksaka ( my favorite). Akasha provides the Space for all the tattva's above to exist in.

It is also interesting to note that each element is not mutually exclusive. As one goes up the tattva list, the previous tattva resides in it, that is Earth principle contains all the tattva's within it, Water contains all the tattva's below it ( fire, air, space), Fire contains air and space , like that.

So, now we come to why one would use sound as a vehicle for meditation. Sound and akasha are the subtler ( or transcends) all the other tattva's shown. What is subtler then akasha? Pure Awareness, the SELF, consciousness itself. By using sound/mantra within the mind ( taking it from gross speach on the lips ) one then can use it as a transcending vehicle. As one transcends sound/akasha the sadhu is left with the unbounded form of pure awareness.
As this is groomed over time, one becomes established in the subtlest level of the SELF. Thus the dawn of the enlightened mind.

"But mind mind will not settle down, it jumps and visits thoughts from one place to another, lie a bee going from flower to flower... my body too will not remain sitting in one place".

This mind of ours is in search for more and is looking for this more. What is this mind coupled to? It is coupled to prana, this life force. If one befrinds prana, one can settle the mind down. This mind this body is the compostion of Earth+Water+Fire. What is subter then these 3? Vayu or Prana. We make friends with prana and we can control the mind-body.
This is done via pranayam or the regulation of the breath.

Like that, the risi's have figured out how this all works and offers these techniques to the seeker of the SELF.
If one wishes to read more of this notion, please consider the following post:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=12412&postcount=1 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=12412&postcount=1)

pra-ana-ms ( vital breath as food in side of you)

saidevo
09 June 2007, 11:29 AM
Here is some more useful information from Swami Jnaneshvara. The spiritual practice of meditation involves meditation, contemplation, prayer and mantra.

Swami Jnaneshvara prescribes four practices for meditation: meditation, contemplation, prayer and mantra. He says meditation may be practiced in any one of the four practices or by combining two of them.



Meditation evolves in stages:
-- Gross objects: Yoga meditation may start with concentration on identifiable objects or words,
-- Subtle objects: Then shift to their non-objective form, such as the light or sound which constructs the object,
-- Bliss: Then lead to the subtler, joy-producing essence or meaning of the object, or
-- I-ness: Move still deeper into being-ness or existence itself.

Contemplation also evolves through stages:
-- Thought: Contemplation may start with a verbal thought process,
-- Reflection: Deepen to quiet reflection,
-- Intuition: Later bring intuitive wisdom, and
-- Knowing: Then lead to a formless knowing.

Prayer also evolves through stages:
-- Repetition: Prayer may start by being repetitive and standardized in a traditional way,
-- Relationship: Then shift more to a verbal and spontaneous inner relationship,
-- Feeling: Then develop to a deeper, non-verbal feeling of love and devotion, and
-- Communion: Then transform into a still deeper communion.

Mantra also evolves through stages:
-- Spoken: At first it may be spoken externally or internally,
-- Heard: Later heard or attended to internally,
-- Feeling: Still later experienced as a syllable-less feeling, or
-- Pervasive awareness: Finally experienced as a pervasive awareness that leads to its source.

Integrate the four: As each of the practices deepen in their own special ways, Meditation, Contemplation, Prayer, and Mantra integrate with one another in a dance of the heart and an orchestra of their individuality and synergy.
...

The four converge into one: Finally, as Meditation, Contemplation, Prayer, and Mantra each reach their subtler stages, they converge into one laser like force-field of concentrated awareness, which then pierces the final barrier into the Realization of the Self, the Absolute Reality.

Samahitam: The state of deep, inner Silence from which the higher knowledge (Paravidya) begins to come, is called Sahahitam. It is the final launching pad, or jumping off place for the direct experience of the Absolute Reality.

(http://www.swamij.com/complementary.htm)

yajvan
09 June 2007, 02:00 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Here is some more useful information from Swami Jnaneshvara. The spiritual practice of meditation involves meditation, contemplation, prayer and mantra.

Swami Jnaneshvara prescribes four practices for meditation: meditation, contemplation, prayer and mantra. He says meditation may be practiced in any one of the four practices or by combining two of them.

Namaste saidevo,
A very good post. What one see's as the casual observer here is each group goes from gross to subtle. All in the direction to the SELF.
This, and all techniques, set up the conditions for the SELF to realize itSELF to itSELF. We have the opportunity to set up the conditions for this to occur.

One example of this to help one appreciate the ease of this, is like diving into the water. One only needs to be instructed for the proper angle, where to bend the legs if you will, then let go, and nature ( gravity) takes over. Like that with meditation. One takes the proper angle and the rest is the nature of the mind to settle down , to more subtler , expansive levels, as it is enjoyable for the mind to do this, if given the opportunity.

The teacher gives the proper angle, the technique, and nature does the rest.

pranams,