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Webimpulse
07 November 2012, 07:06 PM
Namaste all,

I figured since this thread has to do with technology that it would be best to post it here, but if any mods object, please move it. Anyway...

I'm wondering what those in Hinduism think of social media websites, the supposed "Web 2.0" (I'm talking about things like Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Foursquare, etc.). Like any technology, social media websites are tools - they can be used for great good, as well as great evil. For good, social media helped with the "Arab Spring" that occurred earlier this year; and, well, the evil can be obvious, such as hate speech, cyber-bullying, etc. But I wonder if Hinduism has any...special link to this? Has it helped the cause of Sanatana Dharma, hurt it, or not mattered at all?

I guess I'm asking this question because I recently deactivated my Twitter account. Twitter was doing me more harm than good when it came to my mental health. Has anyone had any experiences they'd like to put a dharma spin on?

wundermonk
07 November 2012, 08:36 PM
Interesting thread - which somewhat reflect my experience also.

IMO, in general, twitter, iphones, etc. are harmful to the extent that people use them to constantly update what they are doing with their life, etc. or constantly keep checking emails. This becomes an end in itself.

I somewhat long for the days when one had to write using hand a letter by snail mail, go to the post office, purchase stamps, lick its back, stick it and then drop it in the mailbox!

Life was much simpler then.

Online forums are good and bad. They are good if the company in the forum is good, knowledgeable and polite. This is not always the case.

Dharma-wise, I feel this DOES disconnect one from spirituality, etc. I believe certain Dharmic retreats, medidation center, etc. force ban iPhones or cellphones, etc. for weeks when the retreat is on. That is GOOD.

Webimpulse
07 November 2012, 09:00 PM
Namaste wundermonk,

All very good points - as my mother keeps on saying, "modern life is too darn complicated!" ;) While there are good aspects to social media technology, I personally think too many people give it too much power over their lives. (Heck, I was one of them at one point, that's why I gave up Twitter recently!) The retreats you mentioned that ban cell phones and other technology are essential in this day and age, because they teach balance - they teach that moderation is the key when it comes to technology and the media.

One reason I gave up Twitter - I guess you might say the biggest reason - is because I feel that its 140 character limit forces its users to resort to blunt, undiplomatic language. When you have so little space, you kind of have to use the strongest words possible to get any semblance of your message across. And when discussing any important topic, especially controversial ones, this space limitation can make discussions turn real ugly, real fast.

That's not to say there isn't any value in short and sweet, but when it's the basis for an entire social network...well, I've discovered it can be problematic. I guess a good analogy might be how the Bhagavad Gita distills the essence of the Mahabharata into a single volume and thus becomes more powerful by virtue of its brevity - but when everything is forced to be distilled like that, down to 140 characters? It can lead to some truly barbarous statements.

ShivaFan
08 November 2012, 01:45 AM
Namaste

Interesting subject, I will be curious how other Hindus respond.

I know webpages are not the same as blogs per say, nor the same as twitter or Facebook. But I do know that some members of this forum have WONDERFUL blogs, which are very professional and beautiful in presentation and motif, as well as SD, Hindu and Indian Spiritualism content. Actually, I will be starting my own public website called THE WONDERS OF INDIA, which will have graphics, isights and stories of Temples in India and holy Mahatmas and Sadhus and the wonders of Mother India for Western audience, it will include Sri Lanka. But that is not the same media as this social networking, of which I have a funny personal story of how such things can sometimes get you in trouble.

I do not know much about twitter, and while I no longer have a FB account (though I do own stocks/shares in FB - yes I was one of those idiots who put money in it when it went public offering at $40 a share!), I did have an account briefly.

Two of the ladies of my family circle, both Hindus, had FB accounts and after much harassment insisting I open one, I had finally caved and did so. They wanted to use it to share photos or cross-geographic communications with friends in India.

So right away I notice there are these groups (forgot the term they are called) on FB your can join, so I join a Ramayana group. This group is open to both men and women.

So anyway, I make friends with an Indian who mostly speaks French which I don't know and he speaks sort of broken English, but we can communicate and become friends. There were lots of other members, and like I say including women, and I start to become know as the Hanuman devotee. The vital component to this story is, I had a habit of participating in the Ramayana discussion but would then sort if get busy and not log into FB for periods, such as a week, or two weeks.

My wife and other family members had full access to my FB as well as password.

Apparently a very nice woman was try to become my "friend" by sending me invites to add her to my "buddies list" (I think that is what it was called), she was from India and was fond of saying "Jaya Hanuman!".

So one day I get a phone call from another Hindu relative that I had to come home immediately. I did. When I walked in, the living room is full of Hindu relatives both male and female, including one from another country.

I knew immediately I was in big trouble by the "pow wow" circle of the gathering, this wasn't a birthday treat.

It wasn't. Apparently I committed a very bad thing, I discover it was this other Indian lady on the FB Ramayana club who was trying to be my "friend".

I found out REAL fast, no way. That isn't going to happen. I had to close out my account then and there.

So watch out my Hindu male friends. FB can be big trouble.

By the way, I also got in trouble for insulting Devi by saying a "stupid" mistake that was caught by my wife, and almost had to resign or quit HDF, but ... So far I am only the "stupid one" also known as "idiot" but not anything worse than that so I am ok to post here, but I am told I am a "nut" always "banging on Hindu Dharma Forums!". So... If I never return, you might know why! Which would probably be a blessing.

Big trouble.

Om Namah Sivaya

Webimpulse
09 November 2012, 02:13 PM
Namaste ShivaFan,

Interesting story you posted...though I'm not sure if what happened there was a direct result of Facebook. I'm not sure if your family was just being paranoid or if they were genuinely doing you a favor in that instance. It's easy to see both sides in that case.

What I mean by that is how...entangled certain online relationships can become. Sure, it's nice to connect with polite like-minded people on the Internet when you can (especially considering the number of impolite users!), but sometimes those relations can be all-consuming. Those nice relationships can sometimes obscure the fact that you have a real life to attend to. One has to remember there's always people nice to you in real life too...and you shouldn't neglect them. ;)

McKitty
09 November 2012, 02:39 PM
Vanakkam,

This is very interesting :0 As a videogame designer, please, let me add another point:

Something very important with social media those days are social games and advertgames. The first one being what you can compare to online minigames based on optionnal micro transaction and use your contacts/friends to bring new players or open multiplayers options.
Advertgames are basically the same things, with less content, and aiming at the advertisement of a brand.

The fact are, that games on social media have now a bad reputation (especially on facebook), generate less money, but still have million and million players ! It is, for people with some ideas, an el dorado for having a wide public.

I think it's also a way not necessarily to advertise or make money, but also to teach ! This is called the Serious game (yes, it exist!)
Serious games are everywhere and for everyone, in hospitals, companies, social medias, for employee, bosses or just people like you and me.

Making people learn things trough games is a very quick and interesting way, using social media to touch a wide public is really a plus !

Why not, someday, a little game on a social platform that teach westerners about common misconceptions in Sanatana Dharma ?
Why not a game for indian kids where they play as heroes of indian tales, with magic, and gods ?

This can be a great way to teach to the younger generations about their heritage, in the form of a media that touch them more directly as they are more into it.

Paradoxally I have searched indian games, and find some about Ramayana and the journey of Hanumanji. In almost each case, there was violent reactions from indian communauty (especially in NA). I wonder why, as those games were really close to the real stories, is that the fact of playing a God or a mythological character ? Is it forbidden in Indian culture ?

This can be a problem, as I believe exploiting the wide audience you can have on a social media for teaching trough serious game can be a real advantage

Well, I work with technologies and I grew up with it...So I can say, I enjoy subscribing to deities's pages on facebook to see the face of Mahadev or mantras when I connect.
But still I agree it's not a good thing to be always on those. It's like videogames and chocolate, it's good for you if you don't abuse it.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Webimpulse
09 November 2012, 04:13 PM
Vanakkam,

Why not, someday, a little game on a social platform that teach westerners about common misconceptions in Sanatana Dharma ?
Why not a game for indian kids where they play as heroes of indian tales, with magic, and gods ?

This can be a great way to teach to the younger generations about their heritage, in the form of a media that touch them more directly as they are more into it.

Paradoxally I have searched indian games, and find some about Ramayana and the journey of Hanumanji. In almost each case, there was violent reactions from indian communauty (especially in NA). I wonder why, as those games were really close to the real stories, is that the fact of playing a God or a mythological character ? Is it forbidden in Indian culture ?

This can be a problem, as I believe exploiting the wide audience you can have on a social media for teaching trough serious game can be a real advantage

Well, I work with technologies and I grew up with it...So I can say, I enjoy subscribing to deities's pages on facebook to see the face of Mahadev or mantras when I connect.
But still I agree it's not a good thing to be always on those. It's like videogames and chocolate, it's good for you if you don't abuse it.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Namaste McKitty,

Heh, I'm an avid player of video games myself; heck, I've done some articles on video games for various websites such as the Escapist. :cool1:

However, talking about video games in this thread might be a bit of a derail (not accusing you of deliberately derailing here). But there is a fascinating article at the Escapist that I think addresses your concerns and might answer some of your questions:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_66/385-My-Hindu-Shooter

In summary, this article is about how some tech students at the Maharishi Institute in Fairfield, Iowa tried to embody Hindu principles of non-violence by creating a first-person game that (in theory) would penalize you for committing violent actions. This turned out to be...problematic, but not for the reasons you would normally think. Check it out!

McKitty
09 November 2012, 04:28 PM
Vanakkam,

Sorry, I didn't wanted to go off topic ! :D It's just a habit, when social media are evoked, I always link it with Advert/Social/Serious game as it is really, really involved into social media and their use.
I understand your point, sorry again !



In summary, this article is about how some tech students at the Maharishi Institute in Fairfield, Iowa tried to embody Hindu principles of non-violence by creating a first-person game that (in theory) would penalize you for committing violent actions. This turned out to be...problematic, but not for the reasons you would normally think. Check it out!

:cool1:In a pure game design view it's sure not a good way to present this kind of message to a player, first person is very linked to shoot games in most casual/core gamers, and just giving X penality for X bad action is clearly not enough. Just look at some Assassin's creed for example, "never kill an innocent". What was the cost fur hurting/killing an innocent ? Just a little part of your life bar, absolutely not enough dissuasive for the player, especially the ones that already know open worlds games and quickly link this to gta like games, assuming that they can break rules with little punishment.

The problem here is not that "creating games about Sanatana Dharma teachings are doomed to fail", it's just HOW you do it, and it's very important. First they are not students specialized in Game design, and game design is very important. Else they would have created game mechanics more adapted to the message they wanted to share. Second thing is that the Unreal engine is not necessarily for making first person/war games, you can totally make a puzzle or third person adventure game or zelda like with unreal engine.

My school is specialized in videogames, we are essentially studying graphics and game designs, and we often have subjects like "make a game about global warning awarness in one week". With the right ideas and the right knowledge, it's not difficult to teach, as it's not the medium that is important, but the mean you share the message, directly (playing, seeing, hearing) but also psychologically (first person, third person, invisible rules)
But of course we are also young and falling into the same traps as pretty everyone new in the game industry. Just few days ago, one of our professor told us about game designers: "if you want to put something in your game because you find it "cool" or just because you like it, don't do it. It's a bad idea. You are not making games for your own pleasure, you are making games for the pleasures of the player, so often think like a player and cast away everything that is selfish in your ideas".

We had much project that were total failure for the same reasons the game based on ahimsa apparently failed =/ But this is how you learn

....
I'm off topic again am I ?
Soooorrry <___<" That's totally another different topic.

Thank you for the article, I'll read it !

Sorry again


Aum Namah Shivaya