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Lokavidu
18 November 2012, 09:05 AM
Hello

What are the prerequisite to learn Advaita Vedanta according to traditonal teaching?

What are the signs of someone who is fit and suitable to learn Advaita Vedanta?

what are the preliminaries practice must be done before someone can learn Advaita Vedanta according to traditional view?

thank you

Sahasranama
18 November 2012, 09:35 AM
Sādhana Chatuṣṭaya

Any mumukṣu (one seeking moksha (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moksha)) has to have the following four sampattis (qualifications), collectively called Sādhana Chatuṣṭaya Sampatti (the four-fold qualifications):

Nityānitya vastu viveka—The ability (viveka) to correctly discriminate between the eternal (nitya) substance (Brahman (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Brahman)) and the substance that is transitory existence (anitya).
Ihāmutrārtha phala bhoga virāga—The renunciation (virāga) of enjoyments of objects (artha phala bhoga) in this world (iha) and the other worlds (amutra) like heaven etc.
Śamādi ṣatka sampatti—the six-fold qualities of śama (control of the antahkaraṇa[13] (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Advaita#cite_note-12)dama (the control of external sense organs), uparati (the refraining from actions; instead concentrating on meditation), titikṣa (the tolerating of tāpatraya), śraddha (the faith in Guru and Vedas (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Vedas)), samādhāna (the concentrating of the mind on God and Guru).
Mumukṣutva—The firm conviction that the nature of the world is misery and the intense longing for moksha (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moksha) (release from the cycle of births and deaths).

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Advaita

devotee
18 November 2012, 09:50 AM
Namaste,



What are the prerequisite to learn Advaita Vedanta according to traditonal teaching?

What are the signs of someone who is fit and suitable to learn Advaita Vedanta?

what are the preliminaries practice must be done before someone can learn Advaita Vedanta according to traditional view?


Traditional view is that Advaita VedAnta can be learned only under the guidance of a competent teacher. For studying Advaita VedAnta, I don't think there is any prescribed qualification as such ... the teacher has to decide if you are ready for learning Advaita VedAnta. It is prohibited to teach Advaita VedAnta to a person who is spiritually not ready for it.

If you ask me, it is you to decide what actually appeals to you. It is a difficult path ... not due to high philosophy challenging you mental ability to understand it (that is a very small part of this path) ... but more due to the difficult practice involved. One must slowly develop detachment from this world and worldly pleasures. You must be highly focused and disciplined.

OM

shiv.somashekhar
18 November 2012, 10:08 AM
Sahasranama has posted the prerequisites. You may also find them in the opening chapter of Shankara's Upadesha sahasri.

It should be clear that the philosophy is pretty much restricted to Sanyasins or those who can take up Sadhana as their *fulltime* activity. Until printing made it possible for anyone to read scripture, philosophies were generally not available to the public. One had to approach a Guru and demonstrate the above qualifications to be accepted into the school, before gaining access to any scriptural material.

An interesting requirement is the intense longing for moksha and the firm conviction that earthly life is misery. This is not a practical requirement for a lot of people as they do have some happiness in their lives, which makes it impossible for them to meet this prerequisite. All Karma based philosophies (Buddhism, Sankhya, Vedanta) are based on the idea the there is no happiness in wordly life - which is foreign to the Veda (Samhita) and also contradicts real life perception.

Eastern Mind
18 November 2012, 11:11 AM
Hello

What are the prerequisite to learn Advaita Vedanta according to traditonal teaching?
What are the signs of someone who is fit and suitable to learn Advaita Vedanta?
what are the preliminaries practice must be done before someone can learn Advaita Vedanta according to traditional view?

thank you

Vannakkam: I'm not an advaitan, and many have made clear posts here on it. I just want to point out that there is a huge difference between the intellectual study of advaita (which any Tom, Dick, or Harry, can do, and many have) and the practise of Advaita. At the very core of my sampradaya, I'd be an Advaitan, or at least not disagree with it. The method of getting there would differ.

But sometimes it is extremely difficult to distinguish an intellectual advaitin, from a practicing advaitin, because their words will have overlap, or even be identical. But one is regurgitating it from what others have discovered from within themselves through reading, while the other is just speaking directly from the Self.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
18 November 2012, 11:52 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté

We are talking of one's desire to know (jijñāsa) the nature of the Self (ātma-vastunaḥ) I would then direct one's attention to ādi śaṅkara-ji's vivekacūḍāmaṇi , 16th śloka:

medhāvī puruṣo vidvān ūhāpoha vicakṣanaḥ |
adhikāryātma-vidyāyām ukta-lakṣaṇa-lakṣitaḥ ||

This says,
the person who has excellent/sufficient memory, is learned, possesses the power of comprehension and the ability to reason properly is alone considered qualified for the knowledge of the Self.

One may call this person the qualified aspirant or ātmavidyā adhikārin.

From here the (famous) 4 fold prerequisites ( sādhana catuṣṭhaya) of ādi śaṅkara-ji's offering unfold , starting with the 17th śloka and continues in review to the 29th śloka. The 4 are offered above in post #2.
I urge the reader to take a look at this fine work, vivekacūḍāmaṇi¹.

praṇām



1. Vivekacūḍāmaṇi or the Crown jewel of Discrimination ( some say crest jewel) .

Lokavidu
18 November 2012, 06:42 PM
thank you for the answers

Why is it prohibited to teach Advaita Vedanta to someone who is not ready?
Why is the advaita philosophy restricted only to sanyasin?


what is the danger of learning the Advaita Vedanta without guidance of an authentic Guru?

which one is more traditional way of learning Advaita Vedanta, learning in Chinmaya Mission or in Sringeri Mutt? Is Chinmaya Mission as authentic as Sringeri Mutt?

Does Sringeri Mutt accept non Indian people like caucasian or mongoloid to become a disciple?

Is there anybody here who has learned Advaita Vedanta in Sringeri Mutt?

thank you very much

devotee
18 November 2012, 10:21 PM
Namaste Lokavidu,



Why is it prohibited to teach Advaita Vedanta to someone who is not ready?
Why is the advaita philosophy restricted only to sanyasin?
what is the danger of learning the Advaita Vedanta without guidance of an authentic Guru?


Advaita VedAnta can be misunderstood and an unprepared person would be harmed spiritually by taking a wrong route. I will tell you why :

The highest Truth proclaimed by Advaita VedAnta is that you yourself are Brahman (Thou Art That), I am Brahman (Aham BrahmAsmi) etc. ... all sufferings and cycles of births and deaths are due to "ignorance" and once the knowledge dawns upon the practitioner, he ceases to be bound (by Karmas and cycles of births and deaths). Now, by hearing these statements some people may start thinking in wrong ways :

a) That one can do any sin any get scot free as now he has known what the Truth is and that He is Brahman !
b) That all forms of worshiping God and devotion to God is useless as He Himself is Brahman and He needn't worship any other.
c) I myself have found many self-proclaimed Advaitins on the internet who feel that they are enlightened as Buddha as they are able to argue well on the subject and they think that they are out of ignorance by reading various books on Advaita.

etc.
etc.

The reality is very different. Hearing, discussing and contemplating does help but one has to "experience" that "I Am Brahman" or "All this is Brahman". It doesn't come just by reading books or discussing on forums like this. Getting an intellectual feel is quite different from the Realisation of the Truth.
Meditations, Kriya etc. take you further towards the Reality (enlightenment) but that also depends upon "grace" or Guru/God. There are several possible pitfalls due to wrong interpretation of the teachings and therefore, a Guru has been considered an important prerequisite for doing this sAdhanA. Now, who can be a Guru ? A Guru can be only one who himself is Self-Realised (that is the meaning of a competent teacher). A blind person cannot lead another blind person towards the desired destination. So, a Self-realised Guru is a must. It is better if He is in physical body but a Guru even when not in his physical body can guide his disciples. The most important point to note here is that Guru's grace is considered very important for success on this path.

OM

Eastern Mind
19 November 2012, 07:34 AM
a) That one can do any sin any get scot free as now he has known what the Truth is and that He is Brahman !
b) That all forms of worshiping God and devotion to God is useless as He Himself is Brahman and He needn't worship any other.
c) I myself have found many self-proclaimed Advaitins on the internet who feel that they are enlightened as Buddha as they are able to argue well on the subject and they think that they are out of ignorance by reading various books on Advaita.



Vannakkam Devotee et al: Very well summarised, and I've experienced the same. But the intellect (at least a basic understanding) is a good first step. Problem is when you think that that means you're done. :) It's sad though, as it does a great disservice to a true Advaitin.

Aum Namasivaya

shiv.somashekhar
19 November 2012, 10:00 AM
thank you for the answers

Why is it prohibited to teach Advaita Vedanta to someone who is not ready?

Why would you teach anything to someone who is not ready to learn it or may not have the aptitude? Think of the requirements to get into med school.


Why is the advaita philosophy restricted only to sanyasin?

Because Sadhana has to be a fulltime effort. A sanyasin has no personal relations and no material goals to distract him. With the rest, it can only be a part time effort - much like a hobby, which is not quite enough.


what is the danger of learning the Advaita Vedanta without guidance of an authentic Guru?

More than authentic, qualified would be a better term. A qualified Guru should have studied under a qualified Guru himself. Obviously, this can only be possible if the Guru has an unbroken chain of Gurus leading all the way to Shankara. In fact, before the age of printing, this was the only to gain access to the relevant material.


which one is more traditional way of learning Advaita Vedanta, learning in Chinmaya Mission or in Sringeri Mutt? Is Chinmaya Mission as authentic as Sringeri Mutt?

The Sringeri Mutt has been recognized as started by Shankara, and maintains the full list of pontiffs from its inception. I am not aware that the Chinmaya ashram makes such a claim.


Does Sringeri Mutt accept non Indian people like caucasian or mongoloid to become a disciple?

A key requirement - as I know - is the person should be a Brahmin - as in, born into a Brahmin family. But you should check with them directly on your options.

yajvan
19 November 2012, 05:40 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

There is another view on the person that is fit ( or not fit) to learn... let me offer this for your review. First let's start with those that are not.

There are some people on this good earth that are just not ready for higher levels of knowledge. That is , one's ignorance is so dense that they don't know that they do not know a higher level of existence could even possibly exist. This level is pure moha - the darkness or delusion of mind preventing the discernment of truth.

There also is another type of person that is not amenable for instruction - the brahmanirvāṇain or the realized muni where the realization of Being is in full bloom.

The others
So, all others between the purely ignorant and the purely enlightened are the candiates for instruction and knowledge. How so? It is these people ( including me) that have doubts. We can look at the ~spread~ of people in this light:

0% knowledge + 100% ignorance = pure moha
some knowlege + some ignorance = doubts and this person can be called a śiṣya ( some write śishya) or student, or tapasvin¹
100% knowledge + 0% ignornace = brahmanirvāṇain or muniYou see , when one has doubts it suggests that the intellect is at work probing, questioning and discovering. This is healthy. What then is needed ? The application of the ointment of knowledge, as the wise say. It is this person that śikṣā (training, teaching) bears the greatest fruit.

praṇām

words

1. tapasvin - still practicing ; working with and practicing tapas or austerity , penance , deep meditation , special observance, etc.

ShivaFan
19 November 2012, 07:35 PM
Namaste

In relation to the comment by Devotee, “Hearing, discussion and contemplating does help but one has to “experience” that “I Am Brahman” or “All this is Brahman”.

And in relation to notation by Devotee, “The highest Truth proclaimed by Advaita VedAnta is that you yourself are Brahman (Thou Art That), I am Brahman (Aham BrahmAsmi) etc… “

And Devotee’s very interesting (and I believe pertinent comments) that if some are made to think something such as “I Am God” (e.g. “I Am Brahman” Aham BrahmAsmi), that such a person if deep in ignorance takes to such thoughts that they may start thinking in wrong ways, i.e.:

“That one can do any sin and get Scott free … as he (thinks) … He is Brahman!” …

I am not an Advaitan, though there is no question that Saiva Siddhanta and Satgurus teach that we merge into Shiva, I do think that Devotee hits on something which I have a question about, and I do not want to get off subject but I think it brings up an interesting point.

There are two sayings I often hear in relation to Advaita Vedanta:

(1) “I Am Brahman” – Aham Brahmasmi (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad I IV 10).
(2) “All This is Brahman” – Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma (Chandogya Upanishad III XIV 1- All This (The Universe) is Brahman).

“I Am Brahman” is very close to saying “I Am God”, yes?
“All This is Brahman” is very close to saying “All Things are Brahman”, yes?

Here is where the example of Devotee comes in, specific to if such an idea gets in the mind of someone very deep in ignorance or darkness, then it actually can lead to ideas that one can get away with anything “Scott free”, any “sin”.

I will take it a further step. It can even be dangerous.

There was a girl in 1968 named Susan Atkins. She was an example of someone who falls into deep ignorance, what I would call darkness. She was a fanatical (and pathetic) Beatles fan. Sometimes she would have kids in the neighborhood and about come to her place and play a game on the flip side of the Hard Days Night (Beatles) album, the flip side of the LP cover depicted black and white pictures of the various Beatles in stupid poses all in a checker board pattern in little squares covering the back of the LP cover. Little skeleton heads, plastic phones and other objects were moved about the board at the roll of the dice and the idea of the game was “to lose” (not to win). This fanatic allegiance to the Beatles in a dangerous cocktail that included powerful psychedelic drugs (including for example DMT and not just LSD) eventually led her on a path of meeting up with Charles Manson (the so-called “Manson Family” of the 1969 murders).

Charles Manson believed he was God. “I am God!” he would say aloud. Of course, this pathetic nut also would say “I am Satan!” which meant to him the same thing.

He also told people such as Susan Atkins that she was God, too. Or Satan.

They started thinking the same way Devotee warns about.

But there was one difference.

Charles Manson would say “I am God”.

But he would never say “All things are God”.

So that alone, was a vital difference.

I think that is one thing that makes a difference. To simply learn ideas, or read ideas such as “I Am Brahman”, that isn’t enough. Not at all. And not everyone should be given such ideas.

Perhaps you need to understand, be ready for, and experience two things:

That “I Am Brahman” and “All Things are Brahman”. And that everyone else is, too. That you are not so special after all. Yes?

Om Namah Sivaya

ShivaFan
19 November 2012, 08:15 PM
Namaste

By the way, if anyone is thinking, the answer is NO, I was never a member of the "Manson Family", nor did I take psychedelic drugs. I am just using what I know as an example. That it isn"t enough to think one thing such as I Am Brahman. Especially if you don't experience all things as such as well, yes?

Om Namah Sivaya

Lokavidu
20 November 2012, 10:12 AM
thank you for all answers.

I read that learning Advaita Vedanta is the hardest path, is that true?

so there are more people learning the other path compare to Advaita Vedanta?

Is that true, not many people are attracted to Advaita Vedanta?


thank you

yajvan
20 November 2012, 11:27 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté

so there are more people learning the other path compare to Advaita Vedanta? Is that true, not many people are attracted to Advaita Vedanta?
I think of it as weight lifting.... we start with the small weights and get comfortable, then go to the next, then the next after that. Who wishes to start with 100kg and only strain one's back ?


If one is new to this knowledge it would be wise to get the basics in place. My recommendation over the years has been for people to consider reading the 'The Systems of Indian Philosophy'¹, by Subodh Kapoor. This, in my opinion, is a good start to form a foundation for learning and comprehending sanātana dharma.

... well begun is half done.

praṇām

1. http://www.amazon.com/Systems-Indian-Philosophy-Subodh-Kapoor/dp/8177558870

Lokavidu
24 December 2012, 04:10 AM
Can chanting the name of the God become a purification practice so the mind will be ready to learn Advaita Vedanta?

Had Adi Shankara ever taught about the purification practice?


thank you

Amrut
24 December 2012, 05:01 AM
Can chanting the name of the God become a purification practice so the mind will be ready to learn Advaita Vedanta?

Yes. Chanting Lord's name is the best and easiest way to purify mind.

If you wish to understand Advaita, Please read
Tatva Bodh (http://www.sankaracharya.org/tattvabodha.php)
Vivek Chudamani (choodamani) (http://www.sankaracharya.org/vivekachudamani1.php)
Atma Bodh (http://www.sankaracharya.org/atmabodha.php)

Tatva Bodh is very basic, small, but important Prakarana granth. Prakaranath Granth were created by Adi Shankaracharya to make new seekers aware and familiar with Advaita concepts.

Vivek Chudamani is a very big (580 verses) Prakaran Granth. Vivek Chudamani suits only those who want only Moksha. Ther e are lots of repetation and only reading intellectually will make one bored.

First verse of Atma Bodh is

1. I am composing the ATMA-BODHA, this treatise of the Knowledge of the Self, for those who have purified themselves by austerities and are peaceful in heart and calm, who are free from cravings and are desirous of liberation.

So you can guess that one needs to qualify to read even Prakarana Granth.

As Far as Adhiraka is concerned, Vivek Chudamani says 4 sadhanas

Advaita is not for everybody. Emotional characters are generally not suited to practice advaita. Ramana Maharshi in Ramana Gita [3] says that ones who have purified their mind through sadhana (meditation) or by Sattvik Karma in past lives can practice advaita Vedanta. He further says that one who does not give much importance to his body and senses and has no interest in the worldly affairs instead of being surrounded by worldly issues are considered as eligible for Self Enquiry [3].



Shastras says of fours sadhans (qualities) are necessary (Sadhan chatusta Varnana)[4,5,6]

1. Vivek - discrimination between Real and unreal. i.e. only Atman, Brahman is real, everything else is unreal

2. Vairagya - dispassion in society (worldly matters)

3. Shatsampatti (6 values)

a. Sham – Control over mind

b. Dam – Control over 5 senses

c. Uprati – Saturation point (control over mins and saturation brings the saturation of slinging or attachment in any worldly attachment)

d. Titiskha – To stay neutral in favourable and unfavourable circumstances

e. Shraddha – Faith in Yourself (I am doing nothing wrong in practicing this path), Guru, God and Shastras.

f. Samadhan – To stay focused on the practice.

4. Mumukshatva – Burning desire for liberation.



Once you have Vivek and Vairagya along with firm determination for liberation, all other qualities gradually develop within. Regular prayers and surrender to God also help a lot. Being prepared to leave everything for SELF realization is an asset.

Source (http://indiaspirituality.blogspot.in/2009/08/what-is-advaita-vedanta-can-it-be.html#PracticeAV)

Panchikaranam Prakriya also help one under Advaita concepts.

Other members have also given very good explanation in earlier posts.


Had Adi Shankara ever taught about the purification practice?

I cannot recall and point any verses, but developing 4 qualities as described above helps one purify mind.

Adi shankaracharya also have sung Bhaja Govindam (http://www.sankaracharya.org/bhaja_govindam.php), Updesha Sahasri.

Mind is purified by Meditation.

Aum