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Necromancer
08 January 2013, 03:10 AM
Pranams.

During the past few weeks, I have been studying about how the known, illusory universe 'Maya' reflects very the nature of the Supreme Soul within it.

We realise that all matter is an illusion and light has the ability to travel both as a particle and as a wave, but let's take it one step further....to the glorious world of fractals and complex geometry...gazing into projections of the Mandelbrot Set and seeing nothing but the original Mandlebrot Set no matter how close one zooms in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_GBwuYuOOs

ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पुर्णमुदच्यते
पूर्णश्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥

There are many wonderful 'visual illusions' that trick our minds into thinking something is there or something is happening when it really isn't. You must have seen things like these:

http://www.oocities.org/tim_ph/illusion/blackdots.jpg
http://www.sciencebob.com/graphics/3512883.jpg

*I like to perform Tratak on that last image.

I have taken 'visual illusions' to the extreme and I am using them as meditation tools (when I am not meditating on my Lord Shiva). I see things like the Fibonacci Code underlying all matter in the Universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkGeOWYOFoA

Yes, I meditate in 'Geek'. lol

Last week, I heard my very first audio illusion. These things don't just affect the eyes, guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugriWSmRxcM

I have also heard the 'radio' coming from my fan. I thought I was crazy, but it's only my brain 'filling in' white noise. I'm probably still crazy though. =)

The brain can easily be tricked by illusory things and even though there's always a 'scientific explanation' for why we preceive what we do (even for what we know are 'illusions'...or do we really know it?).

Which leads me onto the reason why I am writing this thread (it has no purpose otherwise).

I just experienced my very first 'tactile illusion' just now and the experience was most uncomfortable.

Over here in Australia, it's very hot (I have no airconditioning) and the thermometer inside reads 37 Deg C and I am not sweating much either, just very hot.

I put the fan on to try and cool me down and to circulate the hot, stale air but I couldn't even feel the breeze from it. All I could feel was my skin move and crawl in ways I couldn't describe...like an external 'pulsing' of the dermis itself. Suffice to say, I had to switch the fan off. lol

Can we use 'known' illusion to dispel unknown illusion? That's the scientific question I leave you all with tonight. Thank you.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Twilightdance
08 January 2013, 04:21 AM
There are many wonderful 'visual illusions' that trick our minds into thinking something is there or something is happening when it really isn't.
This is true and an interesting point.


Can we use 'known' illusion to dispel unknown illusion? That's the scientific question I leave you all with tonight. Thank you.

Aum Namah ShivayaTo be aware of this nature of mind, which constantly finds meaning and existence in/of things which do not really exist, and meditate to go to root of this illusion of the mind should definitely help. Too much preoccupation with examples of 'known' illusions as you put it, may on the other hand can also become a distraction.

Mana
08 January 2013, 04:50 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Necromancer,


Thank you for your wonderful thread, I am also a great fan of Maths and Art, what a fantastic way to show how ṣiva loves to fold back upon himself; sleeping and awakening throughout all time. In and of its self, another iteration ...


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Necromancer
08 January 2013, 05:11 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Necromancer,


Thank you for your wonderful thread, I am also a great fan of Maths and Art, what a fantastic way to show how ṣiva loves to fold back upon himself; sleeping and awakening throughout all time. In and of its self, another iteration ...


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Namaste. Thank you kindly.

Yes, through mathematics, I can see the 'cosmic dance' of Lord Siva, folding back through layers of infinite possibilities. When this is expressed in the natural universe, it's a very beautiful thing to see/feel. Even the spiral arms of our galaxy reflect the same structure as the humble nautilus shell. Lord Siva is the master mathematician...

ॐ नमः शिवाय


To be aware of this nature of mind, which constantly finds meaning and existence in/of things which do not really exist, and meditate to go to root of this illusion of the mind should definitely help. Too much preoccupation with examples of 'known' illusions as you put it, may on the other hand can also become a distraction.

Thank you also and peace.

Yes, I agree these things are good to think about and meditate on, but they are only 'tools' and we shouldn't allow ourselves to become 'distracted' by it - even though full 'distraction' by them feels nice. lol

They are an 'illusion within an illusion'.



A Dream Within A Dream

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?


Edgar Allan Poe



Aum Namah Shivaya

Mana
08 January 2013, 05:50 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,


I should be interested to know whether you believe dharma to be an illusion or dream?

I believe firmly in reality, that some iterations of which are more stable, much kinder and sweeter than others.
Are we not misguided should it be that we believe all to be illusion?

Would it not present a very real conundrum; were so as simple as dream upon dream we are all inter connected, how can this be if we are all separate illusions?

I see a tree with a solid trunk of dharma, and the fresh green web that are its leaves; I find this more agreeable a thought; than alluding to illusion.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Necromancer
08 January 2013, 06:09 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,


I should be interested to know whether you believe dharma to be an illusion?

I believe firmly in reality, that some iterations of which are more stable, much kinder and sweeter than others.
Are we not misguided should it be that we believe all to be illusion?


Would it not present a very real conundrum; were so as simple as dream upon dream we are all inter connected, how can this be if we are all separate illusions?

I see a tree with a solid trunk of dharma, and the fresh green web that are its leaves; I find this more agreeable a thought; than alluding to illusion.








praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Namaste,

If, in the end, even Siva is an illusion, then Dharma is also.
If Satyam and even Moksha are illusion, then Dharma is also.

:न पुण्यं न पापं न सौख्यं न दुःखं, न मन्त्रो न तीर्थो न वेदा न यज्ञ ।
अहं भोजनं नैव भोज्यं न भोक्ता, चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ।। 4 ।।

- Atma Shtakam - Adi Shankaracharya

We cling to notions we hold as our personal truths...those which serve us in reaching our destination like spiritual 'taxi cabs'. Dharma is the road, just like the Tao is. Faith is the 'vehicle' and God is the 'driver'.

That's as best as I can explain what I think about when I actually try to.

Some lies are sweeter than others, but they are still lies. Some truths are more noble and believable than others, but they are not true either.

You have caught me out though. To say that an illusion can exist within an illusion is rather superfluous of me...I just wanted an excuse to quote Poe. lol

Aum Namah Shivaya

Mana
08 January 2013, 07:08 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,


Poe is fantastic, very worthy of your attention and your quotation; It was a pleasure to read your post.
Personally, I don't believe that he was a happy, or a contented man ...

My statements are of my own observations, backed up with scripture and echo's of words that I have heard
or that I have read; I cannot lie to my self, if I am aware of my own intentions.
So why do I refute nihilism?
I believe that the tree exists for us to climb; that we might see of our own accord, once we get over our fear of
heights, we are free look about.
Until that time why would I deny the tree exists? I would not say that that tree is an illusion, or a lie. Other trees
have existed, and indeed still do, and it is in the forest that māyā reveals both her most beautiful forms and
unleashes her most savage beasts.

If I ignore her I may pass unnoticed, but there is a very real chance of being consumed by darkness;
if I praise her, then just maybe, she will allow me to climb her branches, just high enough to see the way.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Necromancer
08 January 2013, 08:28 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,


Poe is fantastic, very worthy of your attention and your quotation; It was a pleasure to read your post.
Personally, I don't believe that he was a happy, or a contented man ..

.

My statements are of my own observations, backed up with scripture and echo's of words that I have heard
or that I have read;



I cannot lie to my self, if I am aware of my own intentions.
So why do I refute nihilism?
I believe that the tree exists for us to climb; that we might see of our own accord, once we get over our fear of
heights, we are free look about.
Until that time why would I deny the tree exists? I would not say that that tree is an illusion, or a lie. Other trees
have existed, and indeed still do, and it is in the forest that māyā reveals both her most beautiful forms and
unleashes her most savage beasts.

If I ignore her I may pass unnoticed, but there is a very real chance of being consumed by darkness;
if I praise her, then just maybe, she will allow me to climb her branches, just high enough to see the way.






















praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Namaste. Your perspective is a very interesting one and I shall indeed ponder upon it.

Having fully embraced the path of Advaita, Nihilism becomes 'second nature' to me now.

Not to confuse nihilism with solipsism is the most difficult thing to do though.

There are two paths: "Neti Neti" and "brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate ". Both will eventually lead to the same destination.


I appreciate your kind words and wisdom, reminding me of the Buddha's 'Middle Way'.

I will continue to love and serve Lord Shiva. He will show me the light out of darkness:

Om Aasato Ma Sad Gamayah
Tamaso Ma Jyortir Gamayah
Mrityur Ma Amritam Gamayah

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shantih

Mana
08 January 2013, 11:56 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,

The pleasure is all mine, thank you for your kind words.
I am currently studying Kashmir shavism; very similar to Advaita, with a few subtitle differences,
I find it to be a wonderful philosophy and path for my needs.
So we are both really in very similar lines of thought.
You might enjoy some of the teachings of Swami LakshmanJoo, his expansion of the tantras has brought
much clarity to understanding and give confidence to me in my posture.

I wish you much joy on your path!


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवा

ShivaFan
13 January 2013, 01:46 PM
Namaste Mana

Quote Mana " I am currently studying Kashmir shavism; very similar to Advaita, with a few subtitle differences, I find it to be a wonderful philosophy and path for my needs."

This is wonderful Mana. Please share with us any insights you have from this garden of study. Are there any particular resources you are using at this time that you might want to share with others? What I love about KS is that what you gain is never something you had to take away from another. How it takes each others short time, and returns to each a long, long eternal time. How you become a vessel where there are no tears. You become deathless. Siva is deathless. No hearts need to be broken when you move from a heart of flesh to what you are. Let us know, Mana.

Om Namah Sivaya

Necromancer
13 January 2013, 10:35 PM
What I love about KS is that what you gain is never something you had to take away from another. How it takes each others short time, and returns to each a long, long eternal time. How you become a vessel where there are no tears. You become deathless. Siva is deathless. No hearts need to be broken when you move from a heart of flesh to what you are. Om Namah Sivaya
Namaste and thank you for such a warm, enlightened response.

Most of what I know in regards to Yoga and Meditation comes from listening to what we call 'Inner Guru' which develops as a product of sustained mindfulness. When we are not consciously aware of what we have, then we cannot be subconsciously aware of what more we need.

I was a qualified Yoga and Meditation teacher, studying under Swami Chidanandaji of the Divine Life Society (Yoga Vedanta Forest Academy) in Rishikesh, India for a few years. I need a 'refresher course' though.

I also started studying this when I was 10-11 by reading the whole set of Tuesday Lobsang Rampa books (which were all the rage back then). Yes, it took us ALL about 10 years to discover the Tibetan Sage was only a 'plumber from Bristol'. Still, it was pretty good (until he started going on about all his cats).

This led me on to four books that would serve me well for many years:

1. The Tibetan Book Of The Dead - Unknown
2. The Tao Te Ching - Lao Tsu
3. The Serpent Fire And The Powers Latent In Man - Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe)
4. Grist For The Mill - Ram Dass (Richard Alpert) and Stephen Levine

I am not using any resources right now...I mean not that I have poured over and memorised enough already.

Again, I thank you kindly and wish you peace.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Mana
14 January 2013, 04:35 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Shivafan,


Thank you kindly for your kind enquiry towards my path, I have some tails of trials and tribulation, which give the background
needed to see why these teachings are so dear to me ...

My experience of the cycle of birth an death, it would appear, has caught up with me in this life time.
The emotional closed nature of the society in which I grew up, lead to a rather abusive response to phenomena with awoke in me;
the teachings hidden within the saṁskāra in my place of birth and within my lineage, one of a strict scientific doctrine; served only
to aggravate the spiritual fire that burned within my heart and soul.

I was 19 when this first occurred; a nodal return. I new that my situation required assistance and requested a spiritual guide, I needed
my Guru. I was given as a response "haloperidol" the chemical equivalence to a large hammer to the head.
My contact with the divine and consequent devotion was erased from my memory; leaving an enormous black hole in its place and no
consequent spiritual support.

I was given a mantra, at that time, by my misguided guides: "You are mentally ill, it is genetic and incurable; you will need to take
drugs all of your life" ...

This resounded in my head and heart as I struggled to make this vision fit my world.

I refused the medication and left the country; knowing in my heart that, something was very wrong with my home land, its dharma ...

I have come with time to learn how to manage these energy's, and am still somewhat in the process, as it is in fact my guide. My
second nodal return has brought me to a fuller understanding of sanātana dharma, and that of lord ṣiva, who I find within my self,
now in a much calmer manor; taming the snakes if you will allow me the bold analogy, that I might eventually put them to some
good use.

To my delight I have discovered that those who have had similar experience in their lives have formed a body of knowledge and
accompanying science, which allows me to diffuse this spiritual burn in a way which befits its divine nature. A complicated task
in a society such as the one in which I live; but I am blessed to be assisted by such great saints and masters who have left their advice
and guidance, like a trail of guiding lights.
Which have in my case, lead me to the study of Jyotiṣ; as an eloquent reflection of the nature of reality, the divine mother her self.

I have been blessed to have been guided, by the grace of this forum and its leaned members; towards the delightful teachings of
Swami Lakshman jū. I am extremely fortunate that his spiritual teachings have been recorded to tape as well as written, his
translations and explanations of Abhinavagupta's Commentaries and teachings; explain clearly to me the reality of the experiences
that I have known. It would appear that contrary to the original diagnosis from the mind of Western science; that I have been blessed
to know ṣiva in my heart, and am not ill in the slightest; despite the poisons ordained ...

Kashmir Shavism explains that reality is ṣiva that we are all individuals who make him collectively, very real; we can all experience
this fully in our unity, in God consciousness; guided by the divine light of its own understanding of its self, or through jyotiṣ or by the
guidance of the Guru.

I am studying "the secret supreme" and the "ṣiva sutras" as expounded by Swami Lakshman jū. The regular e-mails from the official
website are quite a delight to listen to also. You can find them here lovingly recorded and compiled by John Hughes ...

http://www.universalshaivafellowship.org/

(http://www.universalshaivafellowship.org/)I have found and enjoy greatly listening to the recordings of Kumada (Sharon Janis) although the expounding is limited, I find the
verse and quick explanation to be a fantastic memory trigger to remember the deeper explanation and experience.

http://www.spiritual-happiness.com/kashmirshaivism.html

I have just received a copy of Abhinavagupta's Commentary on the Bhagavad Gita with Introduction and notes by Boris Marjanovic;
it is fantastic also.

I am just starting out as a siṣya with my siksa Guru, Pandit Sanjay Rath. Who is instructing me in the finer details of the divine
science of jyotiṣ, and also giving me a good grounding in the Sanskrit language and nuances of sanātana dharma.

srath.com
(http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/srath.com)
In regards to this thread; one of the symptoms of my experiences has been to make prana painfully obvious, as it is to us all if we so
choose to look.
Very early on in the ṣiva sutras, Swami ji highlights the existence of both Rudra and Kśetrajañās; it is very important to my mind,
that we be aware of this.

I am a student of this divine knowledge and still have much to learn and experience.
These teachings allow me to find bliss in God conciousness, by stilling the fear and competition in the world around me;
Enabling me to focus.

Interestingly I have been in contact with the Western mental health service more recently, and was able to sit in front of a psychiatrist
during an intense moment of God conciousness with her unable to detect any sign of mania, she prescribed to me a drug used in epileptic
patients to reduce the pattern recognising parts of the brains activity, used now in Bi-polar Patients to reduce mania. The depth of
colour saturation and perception depth of my vision dissipated as the world sort of became 2d; this drug was affecting the part of my
brain advantageous for my jyotiṣ practis, for my perception. I had gone to them out of respect for my culture as I was clearly having energetic
manifestations, they at this time class me as "hypersensitive" or possibly "surdoué" miraculously cured from a genetic lifelong mental illness;
I stopped seeing them and concentrated on learning about sanātana dharma, this was not long before my joining this forum, I've advanced
greatly and I believe found a more suitable path ...

One of the most important parts of my day is to centre my self, this is best done before and during sunrise; I am still learning this art.



praṇāma


mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Mana
14 January 2013, 06:51 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,


No hearts need to be broken when you move from a heart of flesh to what you are.

Simply beautiful Shivafan, you have so eloquently captured the nature of independence!
I should like to practis this in my work as a Jotyiṣa once I'm a little more experienced.

praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय