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Viraja
15 January 2013, 08:47 AM
Hypothesis: The state of various chakras of the body constitute the inherent karmas of a person. Thus, the closed or open state of a chakra, and if closed, the nature of obstacles surrounding it define the circumstances and life experiences (destiny) one is born into. Thus the 7 chakras, obstacles surrounding them define the wide array of circumstances one is exposed to in life.

The above is just a rough hypothesis. Welcome any insight that is related to the above.

Thanks.

Viraja
15 January 2013, 12:38 PM
This implies that, (on the basis of what I have read long time ago), for a realized yogi - meaning one whose kundalini has risen up to reach his sahasrara chakra, all channels of spiritual pathways (chakras) are open and such a yogi gets rid of his bondage to karmas and is never reborn...

Mana
15 January 2013, 01:00 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Aspirant01,


Is it not the birth and death of our ego during this life, more pertinent to us and those about us?

Many people don't see their moods swing, are you aware when yours does?
What do you do to keep your balance, from whom or where do you draw your resources?

praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Viraja
15 January 2013, 01:13 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Aspirant01,


Is it not the birth and death of our ego during this life, more pertinent to us and those about us?

Many people don't see their moods swing, are you aware when yours does?
What do you do to keep your balance, from whom or where do you draw your resources?

praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

I'm sorry Manaji, I am unable to follow your question, with regards to its relevance to the topic. One part that I understood was the part regarding "the birth and death of our ego that is relevant to this birth".

What I can offer to this question is that, *ego* and its varying accomplices - prejudice, jealousy, and so forth and *verily the obstacles surrounding the various chakras of our body* and that *by opening of the chakras, I mean a sadhaka has gotten rid of these accomplices of ego*.

But what happens to a realized sadhaka who has gotten all his chakras open in this birth, but has left-over karmic baggage from his previous births? I think when his chakras were gradually opened by his sadhana in various birth prior to the last one, they are all gradually paid-off by him - which is why I stated that 'the state of the chakras define the circumstances one is born into'. This is the foundational thought for my hypothesis, I did not infer or draw this hypothesis on any work from anywhere, so can't quote the same.

Mana
15 January 2013, 01:26 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,

As an analogy, we could maybe compare the cākra to the holes on a reed flute for playing a tune, it is not by keeping them all open
that one masters the instrument but by learning to subtly balance them in the surrounding field of sound.
As we evolve in our path we learn more complicated tunes; in or out of harmony with the world about us; it is the universe that
plays the tune and not the yogi the yogi must be in tune ...

Yes some are born with better karma for achieving this.

But practis any may become talented. The best effect is when playing with and for others.

I must add that I am of the KS school of thought as such I believe meditation to be a process best practised with the eyes open
during every day life.
I apologise if you don't follow my line of thought I tend to be very visual in my descriptions and I am improvising from my
limited understanding.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Viraja
15 January 2013, 01:39 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,

As an analogy, we could maybe compare the cākra to the holes on a reed flute for playing a tune, it is not by keeping them all open
that one masters the instrument but by learning to subtly balance them in the surrounding field of sound.
As we evolve in our path we learn more complicated tunes; in or out of harmony with the world about us; it is the universe that
plays the tune and not the yogi the yogi must be in tune ...

Yes some are born with better karma for achieving this.

But practis any may become talented. The best effect is when playing with and for others.

I must add that I am of the KS school of thought as such I believe meditation to be a process best practised with the eyes open
during every day life.
I apologise if you don't follow my line of thought I tend to be very visual in my descriptions and I am improvising from my
limited understanding.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

I believe my thoughts are in tune with what you have stated here, Manaji. When I said 'chakras are opened', I mean the obstacles/challenges surrounding that chakra are removed (I am sorry for such a rudimentary terminology), which is when the balance may be obtained, is it not?

Well, instead of a 'humancentric' approach of a sadhaka getting rid of his challenges, I have taken the subject to the chakra-centric approach as in defining the inherent nature and circumstances surrounding a sadhaka, all to be the result of the state of his chakras. This is because when we think deeply, we find that when the soul first gets created, it does not really have any karmas, so where to all the nature and experiences for that soul come from? This is why I was wondering about the chakras... somehow mother Prakriti endows each soul with a different state of chakras at the time of first creation itself, which is why karmas are acquired... This is my thought only.

I agree with you that meditation could be one technique in getting the challenges surrounding a chakra removed and to obtain balance and harmony.
I feel the same towards the Shivalinga or Shaligrama worship - they are supposed to open the hridaya chakra, meaning remove challenges surrounding it and thus enable a sadhaka to be in better harmony with his surroundings - and enable him additionally *to by-pass some of the karmas by thus getting rid of challenges surrounding the hridaya kamala* - this maybe of relevance to Jyotish, is it not? That one is able to, by means of spiritual practices, open up one's chakras (remove challenges to them) is a way to get rid of excessive negative circumstances, is the promise I tried to arrive at by the chakra hypothesis..

Mana
15 January 2013, 02:25 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,

Your reasoning sounds very lucid to me, I feel that it is important to remember the importance of cākra when dealing with others.

Absolutely, Jyotiś can be a guide for us in achieving this should we become lost.
In our hearts I think that we usually know what we want, some times it takes us years to admit this to our selves. Joytiś can help us
to be in time with; to encourage our direction and remove hurdles, or at the least, to see them coming.

In my initial post I wished to draw attention to the fact that I believe the pursuit of moksha, for many, to be the pursuit of a desire ...
Those who truly desire moksha understand all to well the cycle of life and death of the ego. If we examine the creative process in
humans, we quickly see the turmoil suffered by many who are otherwise the most creative amongst us.

This should not discourage us in our practis, but in many ways we should feel blessed not to truly know the desire for release; which
paradoxically is caused by desire.

Let us not forget that moksha also means death so a desire for release is a very delicate subject.

It is arguably those who desire release with all of their hearts that need most to balance their cākra, their prana.

We are in already spiritual masters by simply stopping desire and living in the moment, taking pleasure only the simple things
that we already have, not in wanting more or less. But this seemingly simple task is nearly impossible for most of us.

I hope that my understanding is just that nothing I say is misleading, I am all to aware of the mystery which surrounds this subject,
I am a student of this knowledge, but my perspective is sincere.

praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Viraja
15 January 2013, 06:23 PM
We are in already spiritual masters by simply stopping desire and living in the moment, taking pleasure only the simple things
that we already have, not in wanting more or less. But this seemingly simple task is nearly impossible for most of us.



:) Is it not that growth stems from disharmony and dissatisfaction, both with oneself as well as with one's surroundings, Manaji?

But you had written your thoughts wonderfully. Thank you very much.

Necromancer
15 January 2013, 08:05 PM
Namaste. It's an interesting hypothesis, but I like to take a more 'scientific' approach to it.

Yes, the activation of certain Chakras is dependent on life experiences...up to about the Vishudhi Chakra...in fact...yes, that's true according to scripture, because even Yogis and Saddhus in Samadhi need to come back down into this Chakra occasionally to survive in the world (there's a kind of 'bridge' there that separates, but joins the physical and the subtle) but anyway...

I like to think of each Chakra as being a 'door' more than a 'wheel' or 'psychic centre'...I mean, all that jargon just overcomplicates the simplicity of it all.
Each of these 'doors' has a 'key' just like each neurotransmitter in your brain is a 'key' for a receptor.

What gives you the 'key' to open your 'Chakra Doors' is not only life experiences, but how you react to them.

For example, if you are doing charity work like serving in a soup kitchen to be a 'good person' and to 'become humble'...you'll never get anywhere. If you are doing it because you empathise with the suffering and want to help your brother out, then 'bingo'...Heart Chakra door gets opened.

Manipura's activation relies on moderation and abstinence in diet, temper, negativity and basically all worldly things that can make us sick (physically and mentally) if taken to excess. Also..see: Nauli Kriya and Bhastrika...

I could go on (and shall if asked), but Karma plays a role in everything, basically. I realise fully well that I won't accomplish self-liberation in this lifetime anyway.

That's my thesis on it, in response to your own.

Aum namah Shivaya

Viraja
15 January 2013, 08:17 PM
For example, if you are doing charity work like serving in a soup kitchen to be a 'good person' and to 'become humble'...you'll never get anywhere. If you are doing it because you empathise with the suffering and want to help your brother out, then 'bingo'...Heart Chakra door gets opened.

:D


Manipura's activation relies on moderation and abstinence in diet, temper, negativity and basically all worldly things that can make us sick (physically and mentally) if taken to excess. Also..see: Nauli Kriya and Bhastrika...

I could go on (and shall if asked), but Karma plays a role in everything, basically. I realise fully well that I won't accomplish self-liberation in this lifetime anyway.


You know so much! Thank you! Well, it is interesting how the various chakras can be opened, but how much of that knowledge I will put into practice, I do not know...! It will definitely benefit to know further about it. TIA.

You very well stated, Karmas play a key role in all this chakra-door opening. I agree... even if we decide to serve others, we must be 'karmically endowed' with the facility to do that kind of help to others... It is said god is like the index finger, the individual soul is like the thumb, the index finger has to bend down so the thumb can touch it, otherwise the thumb can never reach upto the index finger... BUT efforts of one lifetime will surely payback.

I only wish there is a scientific means to study the chakras, and figure out which of it is in what state :D so we can do required 'pariharas' and reduce our karmic baggage!

Necromancer
15 January 2013, 08:39 PM
:D



You know so much! Thank you! Well, it is interesting how the various chakras can be opened, but how much of that knowledge I will put into practice, I do not know...! It will definitely benefit to know further about it. TIA.

You very well stated, Karmas play a key role in all this chakra-door opening. I agree... even if we decide to serve others, we must be 'karmically endowed' with the facility to do that kind of help to others... It is said god is like the index finger, the individual soul is like the thumb, the index finger has to bend down so the thumb can touch it, otherwise the thumb can never reach upto the index finger... BUT efforts of one lifetime will surely payback.

I only wish there is a scientific means to study the chakras, and figure out which of it is in what state :D so we can do required 'pariharas' and reduce our karmic baggage!

There is a way. His name is Patanjali. :D

Anyway, one nice exercise is to locate your 'Nara'. Lay on your back and stick your fingers into your belly button. You should feel your 'second heart' right below it. Now, if it's 'off centre', it means one leg is millimetres shorter and you need to fix that up through Yoga. 'Nara' is the seat of Prana and digestive fire. Feel around your solar plexus. Is it sore to touch? That's because of all your 'emo-baggage' stored there.

I have gallbladder problems...now, think of it...where does the term 'she doesn't have the gall/bile' come from? what about 'she just doesn't have the stomach for it?'.

Anyway, the Manipura Chakra (and indeed, other Chakras) can be 'studied' in this way and in deep states of meditation, you'll know where those 'blockages' are and try to overcome them. (I am having troubles with communication, related to the heart-throat bridge).

Some are still stuck in Swadhisthan, with their eyes firmly glued on a waitresses cleavage/butt and losing veerya often...

The Mooladhara Chakra is always open though...it has to be just to keep us alive.

Enough now. lol

Aum Namah Shivaya

Necromancer
15 January 2013, 08:45 PM
It is said god is like the index finger, the individual soul is like the thumb, the index finger has to bend down so the thumb can touch it, otherwise the thumb can never reach upto the index finger!
I just had to do this:

http://www.faithology.com/images/ee/147/creation_of_man2__60.jpg

Viraja
16 January 2013, 06:23 AM
Necro!

Great knowledge, great insights! Thank you very much :) Loved the pic too!

Necromancer
16 January 2013, 06:51 AM
Necro!

Great knowledge, great insights! Thank you very much :) Loved the pic too!
Namaste. Thank you a lot and no problems.

I used to really be into this way back when, being a qualified meditation and yoga instructor in the Kriya Yoga tradition. My methods are pretty ancient though, but seeing as how this knowledge has a 'timeless' quality about it, that shouldn't matter.

Honestly though, I should get back into this side of it myself and not be 'lazy', just sticking to meditation, study and worship only. I haven't had a good Surya Namaskar workout in ages (9 rounds in the morning again, for me).

Aum Suryaye Namah.

Aum Namah Shivaya.

Viraja
16 January 2013, 07:05 AM
Om Suryaye Namah!
Om Namah Shivaya!
Om Namoh Bhagavathe Vasudevayah!

:)

Mana
16 January 2013, 08:53 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste,

Thank you for your kind words Aspirant.

Growth is a natural state whether we seek it or not; the importance is that it happens in the right direction, and trees that grow to fast often break ...

I do agree with your comment, but wouldn't wish that on anybody.
I believe that knowledge of this science can be applied to heal, but that it can also be very damaging.
I am still a student.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

Viraja
23 January 2013, 12:03 PM
Another hypothesis I like to share for criticism: for spiritually advanced folks, who have 'realized' the self (meaning, their sahasrara chakras are open), but still have some pending karmas (meaning, one of their lower chakras still has some hindrances), these karmas manifest in the same birth in the form of some chronic ailment or undue punishment, so that they can be rid of the karma, thus enabling them achieve 'moksha'.

EDIT: I believe these saints/sages do very well have the capacity to rid of the ailment they suffer from, but do not want to do that because then the hindrance to the chakra will not be removed and thus they have to be reborn.

Some examples for this hypothesis that come to the mind are Sri Ramakrishna's throat cancer, Swami Vivekananda's asthma and the story of Sage Mandavya. (http://brahmam.com/tag/mandavya/) and Badrachalam Ramadas.

I'm sorry, I'm posting my random hypothesis here, but this is just 'some food for thought'. If others can cite similar examples, that can add to something.

Welcome criticisms!