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Jogesh
17 January 2013, 07:59 PM
Each Purana is in the main devoted to a particular devata. In the Siva Purana it is stated: "Siva is the Supreme Being. He is the highest authority for creation, sustenance and dissolution. It is at his behest, and under him, that Visnu funtions as protector. Visnu is a mere bhogin, trapped in Maya. Siva is a yogin and jnana incarnate. Visnu is subject to Siva and worships him. Once when he opposed Siva he suffered humiliation at his hands". Stories are told to illustrate such assertions.

In the Vaisnava Puranas you see the reverse. They contain stories to support the view that Visnu is superior to Siva. "Is Siva a god, he who dwells in the burning grounds with spirits and goblins for company? " these Puranas ask.

In each Purana thus a particular deity is exalted over others. It may be Subrahmanya, Ganapati or Surya. Each such deity is declared to be the Supreme God and all others are said to worship him. When, out of pride, they refuse to worship him they are humbled.

Doubts arise in our minds about such contradictory accounts. "Which of these stories is true? " we are inclined to ask. "And which is false? They cannot all of them be true. If Siva worships Visnu, how does it stand to reason that Visnu should adore Siva? If Amba is superior to the Trimurti (Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara), how is it right to say that she remains submissive to Parameswara as his devoted consort? The Puranas cannot all of them be true. Or are they all lies? "

Logical thinking seems to point to the conclusion that all Puranic stories cannot be true. But, as a matter of fact, they are. A deity that suffers defeat at one time at the hands of another emerges triumphant on another occasion. And a god who worships another deity is himself the object of worship at other times. How is this so and why?

The Paramatman is one and only one. He it is that creates, sustains and destroys. And it is he who exfoliates as the the many different deities. Why does he do so? He has not cast people in the same mould. He has created them all differently, with different attitudes, the purpose being to make the affairs of the world interesting by imparting variety to them. The Paramatman himself assumes different forms to suit the temperament of different people so that each worship him in the form he likes and obtain happiness. This is the reason why the one and only Paramatman manifests himself as so many different deities.

Everybody must have firm faith in, and devotion for, his chosen deity. He must learn to believe that this deity of his is the Paramatman, that there is no power higher. That is the reason why each manifestation or form of the Supreme Godhead reveals itself to be higher than other forms or manifestations. It is thus that these other forms are shown to have worshipped it or suffered defeat at its hands. Altogether it means that each deity worships other deities and is in turn worshipped by others. Also each god suffers defeat at the hands of other gods and, at the same time, inflicts defeat on them.

In the Saiva Puranas all those aspects that proclaim the glory of Siva are brought together. Similarly, in the case of the Vaisnava Puranas that deal with Visnu. Amba, Subrahmanya and other deities are each of them dealt with in such a way as to show him or her to be the highest among the devatas.

The purpose of exalting a particular deity over the another is not to depreciate the latter. The underlying idea is that a person who worships his chosen god has unflinching faith in him and becomes totally devoted to him. Such exclusive devotion is called "ananyabhakti". The idea here, however, is not to regard other devatas as inferior to one's own chosen deity- an example of "nahi ninda nyaya".

Those who are capable of looking upon all deities as the manifestations of the one and only Paramatman have no cause for exclusive devotion to any one of them. It is only when we think that one deity is separate from- or alien to- another that the question arises of giving up one for another. If we realise that all are the different disguises of the One Reality, the various gods and goddesses potrayed in the Puranas, with all the differences among them, will be understood to be nothing but the lila or sport of Supreme Being. It is the One alone that seems divided into manifold entities. This is to help men of various attitudes and temperaments. If this truth is recognised we shall be able to see the stories in the Puranas- stories that seem contradictory- in the true light.

In the story of Banasura we see that Siva is vanquished by Krsna. But in the story of Tiruvannamalai, Visnu meets with failure in finding the feet of Siva. Both stories must be treated as truthful. The first is to make devotees of Krsna worship him as the Paramatman and the second to make devotees of Siva adore him similarly. Although we think that one is winner and the other the loser or that the one is superior to the other or inferior to him, the two know themselves to be one. Does one triumph over oneself- or does one inflict defeat upon oneself? So all this is play. The Parmatman indulges in sport assuming multifarious forms.

The purpose of the Puranas is to show people the right path. Pativratya is a virtue that is of the utmost importance. Amba herself exemplifies it. The Parasakti, the Supreme Power that she is, remains subject to her husband. Faith and devotion must grow in the world and for it the Lord himself must show the way. This is why in some temples Visnu is represented as a worshipper of Siva and in some other shrines Siva is seen as a devotee of Visnu. The same with other deities. I have spoken more about Siva and Visnu since Saivism and Vaisnavism are the two major divisions.

To sum up, if a deity is glorified in the Puranas, and stories told in support of it, it is to create exclusive devotion to him as the Paramatman. And, if any god is potrayed as inferior to another, the true purpose of it is not to denigrate him but to develop unflinching faith in the latter.

From "Hindu Dharma" by Sri Sri Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi MahaSwamiji

http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part14/chap9.htm

devotee
18 January 2013, 05:03 AM
Namaste Yogesh,

Yes, there is no difference ... but some forms suit more to some people.

OM

Necromancer
18 January 2013, 05:52 AM
Namaste.

This is a difficult one for me to try and understand/explain and even come to terms with myself (as I have had to recently).

Foolishly (or not), I decided, as a Shaiva and adherent of the Advaita philosophy (which I am having a difficult enough time reconciling within myself already) to join a Satsanga of Hare Krishna people who were discussing Lord Shiva.

As a Shaiva, I have absolutely no problems with Lord Vishnu, Lord Krishna, Lord Rama and those who follow the Vaishnava path...none whatsoever. I also feel love and devotion there and a great deal of it for Lord Vishnu...it's just that, as devotee said, Lord Shiva just 'suited me more' (for lack of anything better thing to say).

I did notice though (and it's standard as per the Gaudiya Vaishnav tradition) that Lord Shiva does gets dumped on quite a lot, but hey...I guess that's so people won't worship Him instead. Nah, it's more than that....much more than that.

Thus, the Vaishnavas said the Shiva Purana isn't really true and the Shaivas would say that the Bhagavatam or Sruti really isn't true...

We all seem to agree on the Ramayana and Mahabharata as being an accurate, historical record, but that's about as far as it goes.

Yes, there's a difference because we create that difference! No, there's no difference because 'everything is Brahman'...then, one wonders how anything can actually be Brahman to include 'everything' or exist as something which doesn't but has to...then one goes 'nah, I'll go back to worshipping Lord Shiva...easier that way'. lol

Aum Namah Shivaya

Amrut
18 January 2013, 06:06 AM
Namaste Yogesh,

Yes, there is no difference ... but some forms suit more to some people.

OM

+1


To sum up, if a deity is glorified in the Puranas, and stories told in support of it, it is to create exclusive devotion to him as the Paramatman. And, if any god is potrayed as inferior to another, the true purpose of it is not to denigrate him but to develop unflinching faith in the latter.

+1

Nirakar Brahman is like ocean. By the effect of cold, parts of ocean are freezed as ice cubes surface. Both are water. Similarly by 'bhakti' cold of a devotee nirakara Brahman will appear in front of devotee in a form which the devotee is worshipping.

God when creating universe is called Brahma, same God when protects is called Vishnu, same God when destroys is called shiva.

Aum

Viraja
18 January 2013, 07:05 AM
I am of the belief that people are fathered by different deities - that every deity has a role to play in creation (of souls). (I don't know how Sri Brahma supposedly creates each soul or 'Atma' therefore learned people may correct me on this). Thus owing to the different qualities and inherent natures of deities themselves, people are of different natures. I have read that this difference is needed for important purposes similar to the process of creation of electricity - the variation between different gods produces the variation necessary for creation to manifest in different forms.

Necromancer
18 January 2013, 07:42 PM
What a comparison, best laugh I've had today! I don't see anything "philosophical" about someone making such a comparison.
Why mention it if you "won't go there"? If you think the subject is touchy why bring it up?


"*Facepalms*", "lol" and "lulz" only detract further from the content of your message. Please save it for your IMs.
Namaste.

I am very sorry, but I am not about to change who I am or what I say just to please other people like yourself. I am just not like that and I would much prefer others to just not communicate with me at all.

If you/others have a problem with what I say or the way I say it, I ask you to either kindly place me on your 'ignore list' or just report me.

I am not hurting/harming anybody here. I don't flame/abuse anybody and I generally mind my own business, so as long as you do the same, we should get on just fine. Thank you.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Jogesh
18 January 2013, 09:15 PM
Namaste Yogesh,

Yes, there is no difference ... but some forms suit more to some people.

OM

and rightly so...

:)

philosoraptor
19 January 2013, 01:09 AM
Logical thinking seems to point to the conclusion that all Puranic stories cannot be true. But, as a matter of fact, they are.

Uhhh, no. Puranas are only true to the extent that they do not contradict shruti. shruti clearly describes a supreme brahman and subordinate anya-devatas. This has been clearly discussed already.

devotee
19 January 2013, 04:15 AM
Namaste,

Anyone who has studied Shruti texts and Upanishads will never have doubts that God is one alone who is worshiped in different forms. I have quoted a number of references from Veda Samhitas and Upanishads which leave no doubts. Please refer this thread for the references I have given : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9647

Mudgala Upanishad rests all doubts over forms and names of God by this statement :

He becomes whatever he is worshipped as; so, one should think 'I am the supreme being' and will become that (who knows this).

OM

Jogesh
19 January 2013, 10:41 AM
Uhhh, no. Puranas are only true to the extent that they do not contradict shruti. shruti clearly describes a supreme brahman and subordinate anya-devatas. This has been clearly discussed already.

these are the words of Sri Sri Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi MahaSwamiji , not mine sweetie..

:D

Necromancer
13 February 2013, 02:52 AM
Namaste. I just now recalled the conversation I had with my teacher when I was very young.

I asked why there were so many different Hindu God/desses and why there are differences between them all.

He said that the Gods were different and numerous because people were all different and numerous and nobody would be able to understand the idea of there being over 4 billion (about 7 bill now) different Gods!

I thought about that for a very long time, then wondered about what was this 'Spiritual Image' we are all supposed to be created in.

Which lead me onto the biggest question of all. If we are nothing but Soul/Spirit, is each Soul exactly the same? Is 'my' Brahman exactly the same as 'your' Brahman? Forget about who is the 'doer'...who is the 'experiencer'?

So, in order to appease the 'tastes' of groups of devotees who admired one form/image of God, society narrowed it down a lot, so that now, we only have Three (Trimurti) and every form/avatar thereof that fell somewhere under the Triumvate, as well as regional Deities like the Sons/Wives of the main Hindu Gods.

Then, society went and started making the Faiths 'Bona Fide' and encouraging more followers.

From the standpoint of Advaita, there is no difference nor similarity whatsoever between the Gods. What is left to define or compare anyway?

Aum Namah Shivaya

Ganeshprasad
13 February 2013, 05:07 AM
Pranam



Uhhh, no. Puranas are only true to the extent that they do not contradict shruti. shruti clearly describes a supreme brahman and subordinate anya-devatas. This has been clearly discussed already.

Says who Shruti!!

I am inclined to accept such a statement only on account of interpolation or else it is tantamount to say Shree Vyasji did not know Shruti.

Shruti is also clear when it says Eakum sad vipra---

Veda Samhita speaks of 33Devas rest are implied only.

Jai Shree Krishna