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McKitty
27 January 2013, 12:52 PM
Vanakkam everyone,

I am seriously considering working in India, maybe next year, or maybe more, it'll depend if I find work or not.
Anyway, I really would like people currently living in India to help me with some questions, if you don't mind.


First of all: why India ?

No, this is not only because I admire culture and love Tamil Nadu. India (an south east asia) is becoming a very interesting location, even a future leader in the software/videogame industry. While India and South east asia are very well known for having top ingeneers (exactly what we lack in the west in the videogame industry...) they don't have much creatives. And they need them. And this is precisely my work, to be creative.

Everyone in my class, and in my country in general, tend to have two choices:

-staying in France and trying to find a junior poorly paid job because they don't want/can't leave the country.

-Emigrating to the us/canada and test their luck. This is random: you are the best, you have a job. You aren't the best, the market is saturated.

Why following everyone that fight for going trough the tiny door when I see dream job offerings in India/south east asia ? I understand for most people around me that asia is not the "american dream": different culture, language, poverty .... But this is my "asian dream".

And I'm like that: I see an opportunity, I take it. Even if it means leaving my friends and family behind...And they are completely supportive.




Considerations:

The above doesn't mean I am going to run carelessly to the first plane taking the first job. This is something I have to plan, and something I can't plan alone.

- Immigration for work in India, how does it works ?
- Finding a place to live, how does it works ?
- Salary ? How much money I need to live decently ?
- Security, can I live in a normal, popular neighbourhood ?
- white female living alone, should I expect problems ?
- Can I expect equality and respect in my job as a woman ?
- Is there specifics laws about work in India ? In my country for exemple, every people that work are protected by law against abusive firing and abuses in their workplaces. Is there an equivalent ? Where can I learn about it ?
- Is there some specifics websites or places (other than the indian embassy) where I can learn useful things ?
- What should I absolutely be aware of before considering living in India ?


I realize it can be difficult to answer those questions without knowing a little context....So, if it helps :

- I don't drive, but considering India have a very good bus/train/rickshaw coverage, is it a problem ?
- I don't drink, I don't party late at night.
- I dress decently every day, and have no problem wearing indian clothes if I have to.
- I can adapt to the food without any problem.
- I do not expect to live the grand life in a fancy residence or something like that: a room, a bathroom, food, water, clothes, my computer....I just want to live simple.


If you have any problem just let me know, I can correct them or add details

Thank you very much


Aum Namah Shivaya

Viraja
27 January 2013, 01:13 PM
McKitty,

Hopefully you will not be upset at me being the first person to respond but to give hardly 1 answer to your questions. First of all, I admired the way you put forth so many questions, all very valid and thoroughly covers every aspect of living in a foreign country. Shows a good Software professional/logician ;) I wish you good luck in finding a wonderful job in India/Chennai.

Regarding how much money might make you live comfortably, giving a very small savings besides your expenses, I thought making Rs. 25,000 / month might be good enough considering you are a single person.

I know that most starting salaries at Software jobs are around Rs. 20,000, so it might be very easy for you to get a much higher pay than this, 'cause I've followed your posts and I am assuming you have been working in Software/gaming industry for quite some time. (Experienced people might expect a pay of around Rs. 8,00,000/annum I think..)

Hope this has been a bit helpful. :)

McKitty
27 January 2013, 02:18 PM
Vanakkam Aspirant _/\_

I am not upset, on the contrary, I'm open to every opinion and I like to read you ^^

Thank you for answering



Regarding how much money might make you live comfortably, giving a very small savings besides your expenses, I thought making Rs. 25,000 / month might be good enough considering you are a single person.

I don't really know the price of food etc... But I believe you can live good with such a salary I guess. It's hard to tell, for example in my country food is very expensive, but I noticed it was way less expensive to get food in India.
20 000 Rs is around...200euros in my country. You can't even have a place to sleep with this :D ahah


'cause I've followed your posts and I am assuming you have been working in Software/gaming industry for quite some time. (Experienced people might expect a pay of around Rs. 8,00,000/annum I think..)


Actually I'm still a junior, as the experience I've had 'till now was student job, internship or courses. (a masterclass at Seatlle, and a 2 month job at the airport when I went from secretary to...chief's architect/designer associate :D don't ask how I did this, I just love doing my best)

My speciality is graphism: 3D, 2D, animation, all this kind of stuff. I'm still a junior, but I'm motivated and have very good presentation skills, so I rely fully on an interview to show that, if a studio gives me the opportunity of a job, then I'll become a beast.

We have a school in Pune, and many students from my school have been there. The teachers there too always say the same things: in this industry, in India, they have great ingeneers, great people able to prevent and solve difficult technical problems and all this kind of stuff...But they lack creative people like graphists. I hope it's the chance for me to find a way there


Aum Namah Shivaya

Viraja
27 January 2013, 04:06 PM
20 000 Rs is around...200euros in my country. You can't even have a place to sleep with this :D ahah

Well, in my husband's family, my elder sister-in-law's all 3 kids went into Electronics Engineering and found way into the Software fields as Programmers in India. They are quite recent graduates (within past 5 yrs, one of them last year) and all of them earned a starting salary of Rs. 20,000. And, in Chennai, you can rent a decent apartment (no idea about renting a single room) for Rs. 10,000 in a good locality, given that since you are a single person, you won't need more than a single bedroom unit. And I gave Rs. 10000 for food and major expenses such as conveyance + Rs. 5000 for small unforeseen expenses. This could do in Chennai but no idea about places as Pune.


Actually I'm still a junior, as the experience I've had 'till now was student job, internship or courses. (a masterclass at Seatlle, and a 2 month job at the airport when I went from secretary to...chief's architect/designer associate :D don't ask how I did this, I just love doing my best)

My speciality is graphism: 3D, 2D, animation, all this kind of stuff. I'm still a junior, but I'm motivated and have very good presentation skills, so I rely fully on an interview to show that, if a studio gives me the opportunity of a job, then I'll become a beast.


Your description seems to qualify for a starting engineer. But with great enthusiasm, and presentation skills, your internships will weigh a lot. IMO, in general, in India, degree is given a lot of weightage than here in US - take me for an example, although I qualified in IT after coming to USA, my undergraduation is not in Computer Science and I did find a job as a Programmer, initially in 1997. I can't even imagine to find a Programmer job in India with a non-IT undergraduation as mine, even with IT boom. So your degree, and your internship and presentation skills will definitely be given significant weightage in India. Good Luck!

Equinox
27 January 2013, 06:04 PM
Vannakkam McKitty

I'm amazed. :D Actually I'm jealous. Ok nevermind. Haha...

I think living in Chennai would be a wonderful experience for you. If you really like Indian/Tamil culture, then there's nothing better than living right at the heart of it in India. Imagine the endless amount of temples there for you to visit. It's just enchanting. I get excited just thinking of that idea myself.

Since I don't live in India, I can't really give you much advice. Sorry about that. But about living alone, if I can humbly suggest, I'd advice you not to do that yet. Maybe you can try finding other girls who need housemates, but each with their own set of rooms for privacy? Or maybe staying with a family? You might not have all the privacy you want, but safety is much more assured in that way compared to living alone. Doesn't matter if it's a decent area or a not-so-decent one. I don't think it's advisable to live alone there until you're really, really familiar with your surroundings and the lifestyle/habits of the locals.


(a masterclass at Seatlle, and a 2 month job at the airport when I went from secretary to...chief's architect/designer associate don't ask how I did this, I just love doing my best)

My speciality is graphism: 3D, 2D, animation, all this kind of stuff. I'm still a junior, but I'm motivated and have very good presentation skills, so I rely fully on an interview to show that, if a studio gives me the opportunity of a job, then I'll become a beast.

Great! That's how it should be, doing what you love and being good at it. Most people lack motivation/focus these days.


Anyway, weigh all the pros and cons about this decision thoroughly, and then decide how to overcome the cons. When there's a will, there's a way! All the best in your studies/job and have a good time in India once you've made up your mind. :)



Aum Namah Shivaya

ShivaFan
27 January 2013, 08:03 PM
Namaste

There are so many of the French people who have "eastern minds". Why is this? I do not know. But it is true.

You are one of them.

You will weigh the pros and cons, the benefits and consequences. If you decide to go, and want to go, and there is the chance to go, then go to India. You are looking at South India. Of course. Many are now looking. We live in a world of electric light that travels on the infrastructure of technology. South India is becoming a renaissance center of those who program this light and electricity. It isn't surprising. That they are making it move by means of what we call languages, be it programming languages or the many mother tongues. As if they move this light, here and there, as Shiva holds the Flame and dances.

If it cannot be that you can go now and live, then now you should invest just a little money each month. And then one day, when you are old, you will be rich, and you can go there to retire. All things are possible.

Om Namah Sivaya

Jodhaa
28 January 2013, 08:14 AM
First, I want to whole heartedly encourage you to go if there's anyway you can financially pull it off.:) You're young with no kids, so that makes it easier. Even if things "go bad", you have time in your life to start over and hopefully supportive family and friends who can take you in should you happen to need them.

I don't know anything about living abroad in India, but I'm also in the creative industry so I have some career advice...

I would research to see if India's Gaming industry does any creative outsourcing to other nations like China. This might sound unlikely - how can you outsource creativity? Well, I've discovered that people can and do. There's a large industry in China of companies that hire all kinds of artists, pay them low wages and sell their work abroad. (gaming industry included)

The reason I bring this up is that if India does this, you will be competing with those outsourced companies. So I recommend doing research on that before you go. I suppose also, it would be wise to have a job lined up before you go, so perhaps that advice isn't warranted but I feel like it's always good to be informed of employment trends.

It could also be the pessimistic American in me talking too - you can't discount that:p

I honestly hope you can go =) My husband and I have an opportunity to live in Ireland, but will likely have to turn it down for various personal reasons, and it breaks my heart, so I'm really pulling for you! :)

You are asking the right questions. That's a good start. I really hope you can go!

Believer
28 January 2013, 01:34 PM
Namaste,

If it cannot be that you can go now and live, then now you should invest just a little money each month. And then one day, when you are old, you will be rich, and you can go there to retire.
What? Have you gone into the business of planning people's lives - from a mere 20 year old single person in France to a rich, retired old lady living in India? ;)

Pranam.

philosoraptor
28 January 2013, 09:43 PM
McKitty, there are two things you should probably bear in mind before you make this move.

1) The air pollution is unbearable. Plan to live on the outskirts rather than in the middle of the big city if possible. Otherwise consider bringing some air filtration masks.

2) If you truly are a 20-year-old female, you will almost certainly be the victim of Eve-teasing, no matter how conservatively you dress.

There are certainly some very nice and spiritually uplifting parts of India, but quite a few ugly things as well (true of everywhere, no doubt).

Twilightdance
29 January 2013, 01:02 AM
India has worst record for women safety, and I will not suggest this bold move unless you have strong friends and connections here. Just being practical. You being in 20s is a good thing, IMO as you can try things and not get hurt with failures there will be a next time, which not an option for some of us who have crossed 30 and "trapped" with family and kids ;p

McKitty
29 January 2013, 02:52 AM
Vanakkam,



There are certainly some very nice and spiritually uplifting parts of India, but quite a few ugly things as well (true of everywhere, no doubt).

I've seen many of these ugly parts before (corruption, poverty, leprosy), I agree with you. However I'll no go alone and I'm currently trying to get in touch with former students of my school currently working in India

Please not that it is cearly for work purpose, and not a "spiritual trip or whatever because India is cool" :D

I'm looking to Singapore and other south east asian places that also have a fast growing videogame industry


Aum Namah Shivaya

devotee
29 January 2013, 04:42 AM
Namaste Mckitty,

I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge :


- Immigration for work in India, how does it works ?

===> The job you are seeking, may be a difficult nut to crack as India itself produces such professionals in bulk. My suggestion is that you look for the job advertisements and find out from the company if they are seeking something that you can offer. You can also seek advice of your friends who are already working in India.


- Finding a place to live, how does it works ?

No issues once you find a job. You can stay as Paying Guest or rent a house, say two-bedroom flat.


- Salary ? How much money I need to live decently ?

IT companies are paying quite decently in India as per purchase power of Rupee. So, if you get a job with Rs. 30,000 per month or above, you can live a decent life.


- Security, can I live in a normal, popular neighbourhood ?

Yes. It should not be a problem as long as you can pay.


- white female living alone, should I expect problems ?

You are not going into a jungle and please don't think that there are human beasts around to hound you just because you are a woman. South India is relatively safer place for woman but it is not that the other part of India is highly unsafe. Please note that there are thousands of white women working in many metropolitan cities like Delhi, Bombay, Chennai etc. in India. Please don't form your opinion based on what you read in newspapers and what our friends who don't live in India say. There is a tendency to see magnified view of the reality from outside ... but what gets published/comes into media is usually an exception. It is not correct to make an opinion based on such reports alone.

You should either stay in a woman's hostel or in a flat in an area where decent families live.


- Can I expect equality and respect in my job as a woman ?

In India, usually, women get a better deal if they are equally competent. If you are not competent enough, then it is a different issue.


- Is there specifics laws about work in India ? In my country for exemple, every people that work are protected by law against abusive firing and abuses in their workplaces. Is there an equivalent ? Where can I learn about it ?

Labour Laws in India are at par with the best laws in the world. There are special protective laws for women.


- Is there some specifics websites or places (other than the indian embassy) where I can learn useful things ?

It depends upon what you want to know.


- What should I absolutely be aware of before considering living in India ?

It depends upon what is acceptable to you and what is not.


- I don't drive, but considering India have a very good bus/train/rickshaw coverage, is it a problem ?
No problem.


- I don't drink, I don't party late at night.

It is better. Women in India are mostly like that.


- I dress decently every day, and have no problem wearing indian clothes if I have to.

It is good.


- I can adapt to the food without any problem.

- I do not expect to live the grand life in a fancy residence or something like that: a room, a bathroom, food, water, clothes, my computer....I just want to live simple.

Better.

OM

Believer
29 January 2013, 10:10 AM
Namaste,

I concur with the sage advice in the above post. The only thing that I would be concerned with, as Aspirant had mentioned and also confirmed in the above post is that the Indian employers are 'degree minded'. They tend to hire people with at least an undergraduate (BS) degree in the applicable field, and they want to see the paper certificate from the university as proof. But you being an outsider, and capable of bringing a breath of fresh air with new ideas, might get a break and be hired at a decent salary. The thing about getting in touch with 'former students' from your school tells me that some have already broken the ground in terms of getting employed and be able to live a safe, peaceful life in India. It would be best to follow in their footsteps, so, I would put extra effort in locating them. As long as one uses common sense and does not risk putting oneself in harm's way, India is a very safe place. Living with a family, or with a group of other people would be good for extra safety and for social reasons, outside of the job environment. To me, the must thing to have before going there, would a solid job offer from a credible company.

Pranam.

PS, People worried about the smog in India should look at the following link:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/29/world/asia/china-beijing-smog/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I did not see the sun for the entire 6-7 day period that I was in Beijing.

And about safety in India, if you saw the following video about a mother losing all her four children to gun violence in Chicago, you would never visit the US,

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/us/2013/01/29/ac-rowlands-mom-loses-fourth-child-to-gun-violence.cnn

McKitty
29 January 2013, 11:19 AM
Vanakkam,

Thank you for these answers, the differences of opinion puzzle me however :D

As for studies, all I can say is that the diploma of my school is equivalent to a master degree in US, is it good enough ? :( I'm not very familiar with US/indian/international degrees rates. My school also have a strong reputation in Europe (and slowly begin to be known around the world), could it be a plus ?

I'm currently trying to reach former students: one should be around Pune and the other is in Thailand...

...It's difficult to reach people so far away, even by mail there is difference of time


Aum Namah Shivaya

Jodhaa
29 January 2013, 11:28 AM
As long as you have that degree with the documentation, I'm sure it's something that will be recognized within India. (My husband has a Masters from a U.S university and was offered a position in India at one point) Also, in the creative industries, a well assembled portfolio is very important. I can't imagine that they don't put a similar emphasis on creative portfolios in India, so have one ready! (Have a few actually, in case companies request you mail them one)

You are going to get a wide range of responses and advice - some of it contradicting. That's why it's important for you to get opinions from more people and resources then just this forum. Even then there will always be a degree of risk and uncertainty - "you won't know until you go" kind of thing. Don't let the variety of opinions overwhelm you. Learn as much as you can and then you have to make the leap. It's nice that you have professional contacts within India already - they will be a great resource of information.

:)

charitra
29 January 2013, 01:59 PM
I'm currently trying to reach former students: one should be around Pune and the other is in Thailand.....It's difficult to reach people so far away, even by mail there is difference of time Aum Namah Shivaya

Francois Gautier lives in Pune; he is easily the most prominent French Indian Hindu living there with his Indian hindu wife. former students of your college presumably might have met him for some good reasons and thus he can be a source of whereabouts of such people IMO. He runs a blog and you can get his email address from the same. Google him. Good luck.

yajvan
02 February 2013, 03:11 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

One also needs to be aware of how long you can stay in India on a visa. It is my undertstanding ( and I happy to be corrected) that it is 6 months. Then you need to leave and re-enter the county again. My longest stay was one month, and I did not run into this.

iti śivaṁ

ShivaFan
02 February 2013, 11:34 PM
Namaste

In relation to what Yajvan is saying, because I need urgently to get into India (specifically Kolkata - and my Mother In Law is already arrived there), and upon finding I had to RENEW MY PASSPORT (not talking just about the Visa), everything started to become a headache. I have been to India a dozen times, I should have known to check my passport expiration date, which I found was still good but going to expire in 14 days. So I madly started the process, but probably won't get into India until Feburary.

But, I was surprised with some of the changes in regards to the visa for India. I now have my new passport, so I was getting ready for my visa - I use to always go directly the Indian Embassy in S.F. to get this done, but I noticed now there is a webpage and some third-party involved and it is very messy and "mail this", "do that" sort of process. You can still go to the Embassy, which I plan on doing, but I did notice that while in the past I use to be able to get a visa for 5 or 10 years, now I notice I cannot. I am not sure if in the past it wasn't normal even then for such an extended visa, but somehow I use to get one. But now I am reduced to like 6 months - or even a tourist visa. Maybe they will see my old visa's in the system, or by some miracle they remember me or something. I would have brought my Mother In Law to "yell at them" in Hindi but she is already in Kolkata, so ....

Anyway, like Yajvan says, I think the max you are going to get these days is a 6 month visa.

My the way, I spoke with my Mother In Law over the phone yesterday, and she sounded very alarmed (notable change in the tone of her voice that I am use to) ... she has noticed a notable rise in crime in Kolkata, even along Park Street. She has also noticed a notable increase in Muslims which seem to be influenced by radical Islam, they are very open out it and there is more in terms of population of them than in the past. Of course, we have always had an issue with illegal aliens coming in from Bangladesh, who steal cars and stuff, but these seem to be from other areas and not just Bangladesh. I have no idea what is going on. She may be over reacting, but she is also upset since the taxi drivers charge her twice the normal rate since, somehow, everyone knows her and that now they think she is "rich" or something. Makes me wonder ... She says everything has changed recently, some good but a lot bad.

Om Namah Sivaya

sanatana
05 February 2013, 06:57 AM
Namaskar
I'm looking to Singapore and other south east asian places that also have a fast growing videogame industry:)

Mckitty after reading your post, I think city like Singapore suits better to your background. It is a city which has a mix of East and West cultures.
There are lot of Hindu temples in Singapore where they celebrate Hindu festivals and do daily pujas in all temples and they are open to all interested in Hindu religion . They have Geeta Havan every year, they chant all the 700 slokas of Bhagavadgita and do Homam and every interested person is encouraged to participate in this Homam.Last year more than 1000 people participated in it.
Coming to the career in gaming industry ,there are many software companies in Singapore who do development and maintenance work related gaming business. You can try at this place http://www.nabistudios.com/careers.php
Good luck

McKitty
16 February 2013, 10:04 AM
Vanakkam everyone,

Thank you very much for you opinions and advices ! If only I could choose where to work xD But unfortunately, that's not the case. I send the papers, the company choose to take me or not.

I've had an anwer from a big company in Mumbai ! Apparently they are happy to welcome me in their company for 4 months internship ! Yaaay, work ! work !

I'm already thinking about getting in contact with people to have information and help (There is an Indian representative in my school and apparently a french organization there to help people settle or give them advices)
I'll try to ask scholarship too, to maybe have some money...

I have no contract or anything right now, what puzzle me in the mail is that they said they are completely ok for me to come in internship and work with them, but there is no information. In the end there is only "
Let me know how you want to take this forward"

Hm, I don't really understand this part...Generally companies here give every information you need (hours, what kind of work you'll do, if they give you salary or not...) And here there is no information. I don't want to be rude by asking those kind of informations, but they are important too.
I know it varies from countries to countries, so what am I supposed to do for not looking rude ? Should I answer with an interview request and see what happen ? Or can I ask those kind of questions openly ?

Also, this is apparently a mail from the boss (waow. I mean, usually there are special people for recrutement or just robots that answers you) should I bring a little gift ? I don't know if it's a thing that happen in India, so I prefer to ask


Thank you so much everyone !

Aum Namah Shivaya

wundermonk
16 February 2013, 11:35 AM
Greetings McK


I've had an anwer from a big company in Mumbai !

In the end there is only "Let me know how you want to take this forward"


You should DEFINITELY enquire about hours of work, place of work, whether they provide accomodation (usually companies let interns fend for themselves), what help they will provide you in getting your visa, etc.

I would not be overly perturbed by "let me know how you want to take this forward" at this stage. Assuming you got a call from a well-known company, many managers are not clear how an intern can be of help. Projects are not yet clear, staffing of regular employees is not clear, etc. But at the very least, the manager should be able to provide you with general information of what is expected, maybe he/she cannot provide you with very specific details at this stage.

Good luck!

McKitty
19 February 2013, 07:13 AM
Vanakkam,

Thank you for your advices, everything is going fine and I even have a salary of RS10k (this is few, but interns weren't suppose to have a salary so it's good...)

But they do not provide accomodation or anything to live on. I know it's really expensive to get a room at Mumbai, especially for RS10K or less...I do not seek a high standard, just a room with indian comfort will do. But I don't know where to look, what to do, what not to do...

I can try to have some help from state to have additionnal money (An additionnal RS10K or less...)

What is less expensive and near my work is on the north, but I nearly only see flat or rooms on shared basis...And to be honest I don't know if I can trust, who to trust, etc...Plus I don't know if it's good security on north of the city

Anyone living/knowing Mumbai can help please ?

Thank you very much

Aum Namah Shivaya

Spiritual Bee
08 April 2013, 12:30 PM
Hi McKitty!

Since you have so many questions as a Western woman thinking of moving to India (a vastly different culture), I would highly recommend a wonderful blog "BreatheDreamGo" by Mariellen Ward who is a Canadian woman who has traveled extensively in India.

She has some wonderful tips for women especially, and I think her experiences which she chronicles will give you a great sense of what to expect etc.

http://breathedreamgo.com/2013/03/is-travel-in-india-safe/