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koya
05 March 2007, 04:25 AM
Doing good things physically and doing bad things physically is one thing. Similarly thinking good things and bad things is another thing. It is possible due to the atmosphere Man can think bad things sometimes. Is it considered a sin when you think bad things but have never done any bad things ? What does the religion say about this ?.

sm78
05 March 2007, 04:49 AM
Thoughts without any action plays out as kriyamana karma. Any karma does mature as the fruit, bitter or sweet. kriyamana karma as the name suggests matures soon.

Bad thoughts if does not get released as bad actions will play back as guilt on the mind ~ kind of a bad thing also.

sm78
05 March 2007, 04:50 AM
I quite don't like the word sin.

atanu
05 March 2007, 08:35 AM
Doing good things physically and doing bad things physically is one thing. Similarly thinking good things and bad things is another thing. It is possible due to the atmosphere Man can think bad things sometimes. Is it considered a sin when you think bad things but have never done any bad things ? What does the religion say about this ?.

Hello,

SM has explained it nicely. I will add a story.

A God loving women used to do japa-tapa with pure mind. Incidentally a prostitute came to stay as a neighour of the pious lady.

The prostitute used to pray to God once daily "--pardon my ill deeds Lord, I do it solely for the sustenance". On the other hand, the pious lady lost her calm and became bitter of the neighbour. Forgetting japa tapa, she kept on cursing and plotting how to evict the evil lady.

God sent the prostitute to heaven and the other to hell.

This is a story told by Shri Ramakrishna.

Om

Agnideva
05 March 2007, 11:36 AM
Is it considered a sin when you think bad things but have never done any bad things?

Namaste Koya,

Singhi (SM78) and Atanu have addressed your question nicely.

Just a word or two about the term sin. Sin is a strong term, and negative karmas are not always sins. In Abrahamic religions, sin is a transgression of God's law (the commandments). By contrast, in Sanatana Dharma, a sin is not an act against God, but an act against the tenets of Dharma; it's an act against your own self. A sin is an intentional and purposeful transgression of Dharma, which generally involves thought, word and deed.

Most of us are not able to think only positive and alturistic thoughts or to perform only such actions, yes? Therefore, it is recommended to us that we offer all of our actions by thought, word and deed unto the Divine, and/or to ask for forgiveness in our prayers.

OM Shanti,
A.

Ganeshprasad
05 March 2007, 02:57 PM
Pranam Koya

Sm. has explained it atanu ji illustrated it with a nice story and agnideva has expanded with nothing left to say.when he says



By contrast, in Sanatana Dharma, a sin is not an act against God, but an act against the tenets of Dharma; it's an act against your own self. A sin is an intentional and purposeful transgression of Dharma, which generally involves thought, word and deed.

Most of us are not able to think only positive and alturistic thoughts or to perform only such actions, yes? Therefore, it is recommended to us that we offer all of our actions by thought, word and deed unto the Divine, and/or to ask for forgiveness in our prayers.


Kayena vacha manasendriyairva
Buddhyatmana va prakrite swabhavath
Karomi yadyad sakalam parasmai
Narayanayeti samarpayami

Whatever I do with my body, speech, mind or with other senses of my body, or with my intellect and soul or with my innate natural tendencies I offer (dedicate) everything to Lord Narayana.

Krishna says

karmendriyani samyamya
ya aste manasa smaran
indriyarthan vimudhatma
mithyacarah sa ucyate

The deluded ones, who restrain their organs of action but mentally dwell upon the sense enjoyment, are called hypocrites. (3.06)

Jai Shree Krishna

Znanna
05 March 2007, 05:20 PM
Namaste,

To focus on controlling mind is self-defeating.

It could be like someone trying to lose weight who obsesses on calories ... perhaps successful in the short term, but ultimately this train of thought feeds the fat just as if one had eaten.

Better, perhaps, to focus less on calorie intake and more on doing other things than eating?


YMMV



ZN

atanu
05 March 2007, 08:18 PM
Namaste,

To focus on controlling mind is self-defeating.

It could be like someone trying to lose weight who obsesses on calories ... perhaps successful in the short term, but ultimately this train of thought feeds the fat just as if one had eaten.

Better, perhaps, to focus less on calorie intake and more on doing other things than eating?


YMMV

ZN

Yes, I think YMMV is the correct thing here. There are many ways.

But Yoga and enquiry paths are valid prescribed paths in sanatana dharma. Slow does it. Love does it. Infinite patience does it.

Watching the thoughts and bringing the thoughts back lovingly to the Seer of the thought is one way. Lord Krishna has taught this in Gita.

Ramana Guru taught that the I thought is the root of all other thought. Enquiring as to who this I is, keeps the mind rooted (centred) and also is drawn to Self eventually. Going by the accounts of many experienced practitioners and of myself and of Ramana himself, I should have no doubt.

Vedic method followers usually dissuade use of Tantra.

But YMMV. The path would not be there had it been not useful --- positively or negatively. hehe.

koya
05 March 2007, 09:40 PM
Thank you everyone for your kind response.

Sometimes a bad thought may leave the person to do some good deed. So I agree the thoughts matures and will bear fruit / or bad things in future.

Example:
Day1:
A rich man who knows that he is going to become deaf in the next one or two years becomes im-patient and curses god that why was he born in such a situation ?

Day2:
He walks around the streets of downtown and sees a beautiful girl. She smiles at him, he feels very happy. She walks down to him and begs for money. He is shocked obviosly, and thinks what has happened to her that she is begging. He helps her and returns home.

Day3:
He goes to a restaurant and sees another family visiting the restaurant to eat. And sees one of the person in the family is blind. And sees another handicap who cannot walk. His agony increases. He curses God again.

Day4:
He walks down another street adjacent to his house and finds a wise man. And talks to the wise man. The wise man explains to him that nobody's life is perfect and teaches him about karma yoga.

Day5:
He thinks and thinks again, and concudes ...Oh my god. What have I done. I have been cursing you all this time. He decided he will build a temple and spread contribute to dharma.

Now what has happened to the person in Day4 and Day5 may not have happened to everyone. So a man's action can be circumstantial. Although a good thought has happened to the guy on the fifth day, he has been cursing God all along.

Now how does Chitragupta who works with Hemadharma weigh his deeds ? Will be become a good guy who is building a temple or a bad guy because he has cursed ? Where will be his next birth be ? At a better place - because he did some things good or at a bad place because he had cursed so many bad things. ?

sm78
05 March 2007, 11:33 PM
Vedic method followers usually dissuade use of Tantra.

Followers of Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada can't say such ~ Sri Vidya is the integral part of the sadhna, although they rarely speakth in public about it.

sm78
06 March 2007, 12:20 AM
Thank you everyone for your kind response.

Sometimes a bad thought may leave the person to do some good deed. So I agree the thoughts matures and will bear fruit / or bad things in future.

Example:
Day1:
A rich man who knows that he is going to become deaf in the next one or two years becomes im-patient and curses god that why was he born in such a situation ?

Day2:
He walks around the streets of downtown and sees a beautiful girl. She smiles at him, he feels very happy. She walks down to him and begs for money. He is shocked obviosly, and thinks what has happened to her that she is begging. He helps her and returns home.

Day3:
He goes to a restaurant and sees another family visiting the restaurant to eat. And sees one of the person in the family is blind. And sees another handicap who cannot walk. His agony increases. He curses God again.

Day4:
He walks down another street adjacent to his house and finds a wise man. And talks to the wise man. The wise man explains to him that nobody's life is perfect and teaches him about karma yoga.

Day5:
He thinks and thinks again, and concudes ...Oh my god. What have I done. I have been cursing you all this time. He decided he will build a temple and spread contribute to dharma.

Now what has happened to the person in Day4 and Day5 may not have happened to everyone. So a man's action can be circumstantial. Although a good thought has happened to the guy on the fifth day, he has been cursing God all along.

Now how does Chitragupta who works with Hemadharma weigh his deeds ? Will be become a good guy who is building a temple or a bad guy because he has cursed ? Where will be his next birth be ? At a better place - because he did some things good or at a bad place because he had cursed so many bad things. ?

If Day 4 and Day 5 doesn't happen, I would say that it is a great enough punishment for the man who might go on to loose faith in God and spend more births in suffering.

I can't claim that this is universal but this is what I believe and seen to an extent. When we do mistakes, perform bad deeds in though or action, nature gently tries to correct us placing us in situations where our assumptions gets challenged. If the man was otherwise a good man, incident like Day 4 and Day 5 is bound to happen. It only that the human fails to see what is being shown to him.

atanu
06 March 2007, 01:07 AM
Followers of Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada can't say such ~ Sri Vidya is the integral part of the sadhna, although they rarely speakth in public about it.

Yes, I do not know much about it, except that my Guru teaches to concentrate on the experiencer/seer rather than on the experience itself. I do not know fully about Shri Vidya path. Is it synonymous with all Tantrik methods?

But as Shiv Mahimn strotra says: Lord, all paths are illumined by you.
And as Shata Rudriya says: Prostrations to the Lord of paths.

Om

koya
07 March 2007, 12:01 AM
Thank you Singhi.

So you mean the Day4 and Day5 has happened because he is a good person ? Meaning because of his past karma ?

So you are basically saying where you are and what you do is because of past deeds ? And not present.

What if those days never happened, there would have never been an oppurtinity for the person to correct himself from his bad deeds ? It could be anything right ? There is no way one knows something has happened because of something ?

koya
07 March 2007, 12:04 AM
Doesn't Gita says that one should control the nine-gates of the body and the mind ? So going back to the question ..shouldn't we try to do that..And if we want to control mind, what kind of ways are available ?

Znanna
07 March 2007, 03:52 AM
Yes, I think YMMV is the correct thing here. There are many ways.

But Yoga and enquiry paths are valid prescribed paths in sanatana dharma. Slow does it. Love does it. Infinite patience does it.

Watching the thoughts and bringing the thoughts back lovingly to the Seer of the thought is one way. Lord Krishna has taught this in Gita.

Ramana Guru taught that the I thought is the root of all other thought. Enquiring as to who this I is, keeps the mind rooted (centred) and also is drawn to Self eventually. Going by the accounts of many experienced practitioners and of myself and of Ramana himself, I should have no doubt.

Vedic method followers usually dissuade use of Tantra.

But YMMV. The path would not be there had it been not useful --- positively or negatively. hehe.


Namaste,

What I'm trying to say is that *focusing* on controlling mind itself is an attachment, just as a dieter focused on food is constantly reminded they are hungry.

Hope that clarifies.


ZN

atanu
08 March 2007, 10:53 AM
Namaste,

What I'm trying to say is that *focusing* on controlling mind itself is an attachment, just as a dieter focused on food is constantly reminded they are hungry.

Hope that clarifies.


ZN


Namaste ZN,

I get your point and this has been the criticism of meditative methods from many sides.

But:

Gita 5.26. Absolute freedom exists on all sides for those self-controlled ascetics who are free from desire and anger, who have controlled their thoughts and who have realised the Self.

6.25. Little by little let him attain to quietude by the intellect held firmly; having made the mind establish itself in the Self, let him not think of anything.

6.26. From whatever cause the restless, unsteady mind wanders away, from that let him restrain it and bring it under the control of the Self alone.

6.27. Supreme bliss verily comes to this Yogi whose mind is quite peaceful, whose passion is quieted, who has united with Brahman, and who is free from sin.

end of citation

That's why I said that Vedantic teaching differs from Tantrik method, though the goal is One. In a Upanishad, Varuna teaches his son Bhrigu that the unmoving mind itself is Brahman.

And meditation is not actually focussing the mind, that is a preliminary stage. It is gaining mastery over the mind. Little by Little, as Lord Krishna says. Either one keeps vigil on the movement of the wandering mind and nudgses it back to the source gently. Or, one enquires Neti, Neti.

The high mystical qualities as seen in sages do not arise without one pointed mind. The effort might be unseen in the present incarnation.

What you say about mind control is certainly valid for certain devotees but not for all. Meditative methods, are the one prescribed in Upanishads preferentially and are suggested for those who have attained a degree of dispassion.

Whatever suits one, is given.

Regards, YMMV,

Om Namah Shivayya

atanu
08 March 2007, 10:58 AM
Thank you Singhi.

So you mean the Day4 and Day5 has happened because he is a good person ? Meaning because of his past karma ?

So you are basically saying where you are and what you do is because of past deeds ? And not present.

What if those days never happened, there would have never been an oppurtinity for the person to correct himself from his bad deeds ? It could be anything right ? There is no way one knows something has happened because of something ?

Namaskar Koya,

You have excellent argument.

Yoga Vashista begins with a note as below (approximately):

Nothing is stronger than the present self effort. What happens in unforeseen ways is said to be daivam, but actually is the past actions fructifying. But the present action is always stronger.

Yoga Vasista, puts the whole onus on effort -- the right effort and placing meditation on Self/God as the highest self effort.

Om

Znanna
08 March 2007, 06:42 PM
Namaste ZN,

I get your point and this has been the criticism of meditative methods from many sides.

But:

Gita 5.26. Absolute freedom exists on all sides for those self-controlled ascetics who are free from desire and anger, who have controlled their thoughts and who have realised the Self.

6.25. Little by little let him attain to quietude by the intellect held firmly; having made the mind establish itself in the Self, let him not think of anything.

6.26. From whatever cause the restless, unsteady mind wanders away, from that let him restrain it and bring it under the control of the Self alone.

6.27. Supreme bliss verily comes to this Yogi whose mind is quite peaceful, whose passion is quieted, who has united with Brahman, and who is free from sin.

end of citation

That's why I said that Vedantic teaching differs from Tantrik method, though the goal is One. In a Upanishad, Varuna teaches his son Bhrigu that the unmoving mind itself is Brahman.

And meditation is not actually focussing the mind, that is a preliminary stage. It is gaining mastery over the mind. Little by Little, as Lord Krishna says. Either one keeps vigil on the movement of the wandering mind and nudgses it back to the source gently. Or, one enquires Neti, Neti.

The high mystical qualities as seen in sages do not arise without one pointed mind. The effort might be unseen in the present incarnation.

What you say about mind control is certainly valid for certain devotees but not for all. Meditative methods, are the one prescribed in Upanishads preferentially and are suggested for those who have attained a degree of dispassion.

Whatever suits one, is given.

Regards, YMMV,

Om Namah Shivayya


Namaste,

There is no doubt that each remembers in their own way, dear Atanu. I did not mean to imply (nor do I ever) that my personal observations and comments are anything more than my reflections on experiences. Thus, "YMMV" and "just a girl" and "from a mleChcha point of view" disclaimers all the time :)

Sorry if I gave a misimpression.



Gita 5.26. Absolute freedom exists on all sides for those self-controlled ascetics who are free from desire and anger, who have controlled their thoughts and who have realised the Self.

But, is *focusing* on controlling thoughts the way to control thoughts or is it that realizing the Self means that one have controlled their thoughts?

It may be that it is a girl thing, as to me, "focus" and "infinite" are the same thing, so my pointedness really is dispersion, all the same time.


6.26. From whatever cause the restless, unsteady mind wanders away, from that let him restrain it and bring it under the control of the Self alone.

"Focus" ... how effortless is that when one is embracing one's Beloved?


6.27. Supreme bliss verily comes to this Yogi whose mind is quite peaceful, whose passion is quieted, who has united with Brahman, and who is free from sin.


Why does the Buddha smile? :D



That's why I said that Vedantic teaching differs from Tantrik method, though the goal is One. In a Upanishad, Varuna teaches his son Bhrigu that the unmoving mind itself is Brahman.

Forgive me, I am just now starting to learn where the lines of lineages are drawn. My suspicion is that it has to do with the friction of the One and the Many, as well as the pointedness of infinity. But, I just say that because that's what it feels like to me.


And meditation is not actually focussing the mind, that is a preliminary stage. It is gaining mastery over the mind. Little by Little, as Lord Krishna says. Either one keeps vigil on the movement of the wandering mind and nudgses it back to the source gently. Or, one enquires Neti, Neti.

Um, from a female point of view (if that isn't an oxymoron, hehe), it is reasonably easy to determine the balancing point.


The high mystical qualities as seen in sages do not arise without one pointed mind. The effort might be unseen in the present incarnation.

Again, I question whether this is a particularly male point of view ... as opposed to DEVI. Perhaps that is the crux of our difference in interpretation/expression?


What you say about mind control is certainly valid for certain devotees but not for all. Meditative methods, are the one prescribed in Upanishads preferentially and are suggested for those who have attained a degree of dispassion.

I think the Saundarya Lahari is one of the most explict expressions I've come across in describing "yoga". But, I am very unstudied in your scriptures, as I am just starting to learn sanskrit, so this is definitely FWIW (for what its worth).


Whatever suits one, is given


Absolutely, forever :P



Love,
ZN

atanu
09 March 2007, 06:32 AM
Namaste,

-------

But, is *focusing* on controlling thoughts the way to control thoughts or is it that realizing the Self means that one have controlled their thoughts?

It may be that it is a girl thing, as to me, "focus" and "infinite" are the same thing, so my pointedness really is dispersion, all the same time.

---------



Realizing the Self means that one is never deluded into thinking that I am a fleshy body and I have such and such tasks to do, etc etc.

'Know Thyself' is the aim. It is abiding in one's infinite nature.

Well, my Guru says that abiding in the Self (infinite) seems an effort for you but with refinement, to not abide in the Self will require effort.

Thoughts are actually pointed -- related to some or other pointed objects. Absence of any thought, like in deep sleep is infinite. In deep sleep one does not know it, but in samadhi (and further in sahaja samadhi) one attains what one is.




Why does the Buddha smile? :D


Obvious. He is taking bath in the Self. There is no other.




Absolutely, forever :P


Absolutely.

Like you said in a previous post that considering that Devi can have millions of forms, 33 Devas is too small a number.

Similarly, there are infinite personalities each at different stages of evolution. The soiled consciousness evolves and evolves, till one removes all perceptions and remains as one is. Then it is natural.

But for me who is struggling to keep away desires (related to my apparent fleshy reality), an effort to know that the desires do not belong to the Self is essential and thus I have been drawn to a Guru who teaches so.

Regards,

Om Namah Shivayya

atanu
09 March 2007, 06:51 AM
Namaste,

----Um, from a female point of view (if that isn't an oxymoron, hehe), it is reasonably easy to determine the balancing point.


---Um, that------ . See how we say this is a female thought and this a male thought? It makes me wonder whether such female and male thoughts romance or not?




I think the Saundarya Lahari is one of the most explict expressions I've come across in describing "yoga". But, I am very unstudied in your scriptures, as I am just starting to learn sanskrit, so this is definitely FWIW (for what its worth).



I agree. Absolutely.



Regards,

Om Namah Shivayya

Znanna
09 March 2007, 07:48 PM
But for me who is struggling to keep away desires (related to my apparent fleshy reality), an effort to know that the desires do not belong to the Self is essential and thus I have been drawn to a Guru who teaches so.

Regards,

Om Namah Shivayya


Namaste,

Thank you for relaying the comments :)


Realizing the Self means that one is never deluded into thinking that I am a fleshy body and I have such and such tasks to do, etc etc.

'Know Thyself' is the aim. It is abiding in one's infinite nature.

Well, my Guru says that abiding in the Self (infinite) seems an effort for you but with refinement, to not abide in the Self will require effort.

Thoughts are actually pointed -- related to some or other pointed objects. Absence of any thought, like in deep sleep is infinite. In deep sleep one does not know it, but in samadhi (and further in sahaja samadhi) one attains what one is.




(Lalitha love to dance, hehe)

I'm a girl. My thoughts are not pointed, they are reflective. I may evoke the point and reflect it maybe groove on it, but that's different from focusing on a point.

I desire nothing because I enjoy it all!



Love,
ZN
/neglect none

atanu
10 March 2007, 06:10 AM
Namaste,

Thank you for relaying the comments :)


(Lalitha love to dance, hehe)

I'm a girl. My thoughts are not pointed, they are reflective. I may evoke the point and reflect it maybe groove on it, but that's different from focusing on a point.

I desire nothing because I enjoy it all!

Love,
ZN
/neglect none

Namaskar,

Well,

If one is not carried away by thoughts and remains merely as a reflecting medium, one is already there. Must be a result of a lot of prior tapas.

Some explanation:

Q. On inquiry into the origin of thoughts, there is a perception of 'I'. But it does not satisfy one.
A. Quite right. The perception of 'I' is associated with a form, maybe the body. There should be nothing associated with the pure Self. The Self is the un-associated, pure Reality in whose light, the body, the ego etc. shine. On stilling all thoughts, only pure consciousness remains. When just awaking from sleep and before becoming aware of the world, there is that pure 'I' - 'I'. Hold to it without sleeping or without allowing thoughts to possess you. If that is held firm nothing matters even though one sees the world - the seer remains unaffected by the phenomena.

If there were no such activities as waking thoughts and dream thoughts, there would not be the corresponding worlds, i.e. no perception of them. In deep sleep there are no such activities, and the world does not then exist for us.
In dreamless sleep there is no world, no ego and no unhappiness. But the Self remains. In the wakeful state there are all these; yet there is the Self. One has only to remove the transitory happenings in order to realize the ever-present beatitude of the Self. Your nature is bliss. Find that on which all the rest are superimposed and you then remain as the pure Self.

Om Namoh Bhagavate Shri Ramanaya

But are you not carried away? If not, then you have nothing more to attain.



Regards

Om Namah Shivayya

Znanna
10 March 2007, 12:37 PM
Namaskar,

Well,

If one is not carried away by thoughts and remains merely as a reflecting medium, one is already there. Must be a result of a lot of prior tapas.

Some explanation:

Q. On inquiry into the origin of thoughts, there is a perception of 'I'. But it does not satisfy one.
A. Quite right. The perception of 'I' is associated with a form, maybe the body. There should be nothing associated with the pure Self. The Self is the un-associated, pure Reality in whose light, the body, the ego etc. shine. On stilling all thoughts, only pure consciousness remains. When just awaking from sleep and before becoming aware of the world, there is that pure 'I' - 'I'. Hold to it without sleeping or without allowing thoughts to possess you. If that is held firm nothing matters even though one sees the world - the seer remains unaffected by the phenomena.

If there were no such activities as waking thoughts and dream thoughts, there would not be the corresponding worlds, i.e. no perception of them. In deep sleep there are no such activities, and the world does not then exist for us.
In dreamless sleep there is no world, no ego and no unhappiness. But the Self remains. In the wakeful state there are all these; yet there is the Self. One has only to remove the transitory happenings in order to realize the ever-present beatitude of the Self. Your nature is bliss. Find that on which all the rest are superimposed and you then remain as the pure Self.

Om Namoh Bhagavate Shri Ramanaya

But are you not carried away? If not, then you have nothing more to attain.



Regards

Om Namah Shivayya


Namaste,

When you embrace your Beloved, do you focus on her or do you sink into the warmth of her ocean of beauty? Yet, knowing it is HER, your Beloved, makes it sweeter perhaps?

:)

My current practice is balancing in ajna, like staring into the sun having faith one will not be blinded. To do this, I pray for, and receive a complementary chakra system where base and crown intersect which allows me this delicate balance. I'm getting better at it, but it's scary as all get out. Twin is unrelenting, though, retreat is not an option.

Om Namah Shivayya






ZN

atanu
10 March 2007, 10:11 PM
Namaste,

When you embrace your Beloved, do you focus on her or do you sink into the warmth of her ocean of beauty? Yet, knowing it is HER, your Beloved, makes it sweeter perhaps?

:)

------
ZN


Namaste,

I have actually become a girl for beloved Shiva. I wish to be embraced and not to embrace (though instinct to embrace another comes up often). But I know every other embrace comes and goes. Shiva is always there waiting for everyone.

Om Namah Shivayya

atanu
11 March 2007, 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by Znanna http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=10993#post10993)
Namaste,

When you embrace your Beloved, do you focus on her or do you sink into the warmth of her ocean of beauty? Yet, knowing it is HER, your Beloved, makes it sweeter perhaps?




Namaste,

I have actually become a girl for beloved Shiva. I wish to be embraced and not to embrace (though instinct to embrace another comes up often). But I know every other embrace comes and goes. Shiva is always there waiting for everyone.

Om Namah Shivayya

Knowing that "One loves one's beloved for the love of the Self" (Br. Upanishad).

The location of the pleasure of embrace does not belong in the object embraced. The pleasure resides in the being. Mind control is about training the mind to remember it forever. That the being is Narayana and He is the ONE in the absolute.

Om Namoh Narayana
Om Namah Shivayya

atanu
16 March 2007, 12:46 PM
Namaste,

yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

Om Namah Shivayya

ZN

NamAste,

Yeah.

It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

the perfection is achieved by THE MIND by which fall occurs.

Znanna
17 March 2007, 08:17 AM
Sentimental nonsense. Can we get back to reality now?


Heh.

"Can we get back to reality now?"

Who is to say there is a difference between what is manifest and our perception of "manifest"? Which comes first? Does the dream exist without the dreamer?

Or, to paraphrase, who dreams?

:D


Namaste,
ZN

atanu
17 March 2007, 08:44 PM
Maruti? Where his post?

Om

Arvind Sivaraman
23 April 2007, 05:21 AM
Om Shirdi Sai Ram,
Namaste Koya.
I shall explain a sequence from Srimad Valmiki Sundarakandam.

In Chapter 26 (Atmahatya Nischayaha)ie; Goddess Sita resolves to commit suicide.
Sloka 50 : "Priyanna Sambhave Dukham Apriya Dadhikam Bhayam
Thabyam he ye viyujyente namsteshaam mahaatmanaam"

Goddess Sita before trying to commit suicide thinks to herself:
When hapiness comes the mind is filled with joy,when unhappiness comes the mind is filled with sorrow,People who have conquered both hapiness and unhapiness are really great men,Godess Sita Says "My salutations to such great men."

Thus you can surmise how difficult it is to control mind.
Morover Swami Vivekanda says - Vedanta recognises no sin, it recognises only error,and the greatest error says the vedanta is that you are weak.You cannot do this and that.

Also it is very essential that one has a GURU who can guide us at all times.It is only a Sadguru who can enable us to cross the ocean of samsara.

atanu
12 May 2007, 08:22 AM
Om Shirdi Sai Ram,
Namaste Koya.
----Also it is very essential that one has a GURU who can guide us at all times.It is only a Sadguru who can enable us to cross the ocean of samsara.


Namaste, You are absolutely correct that it is very essential that one has a GURU who can guide us at all times.


And it is also the truth that the Guru is ever there guiding --- as Viveka, as conscience, as intellect, as the universe around you.

Om Namah Shivaya

Atman
28 July 2007, 07:11 PM
You can control the mind if you control the semen- and in turn control the prana- all 3 are linked. This is why Julian says try and be an Urdervata Yogi- then you will have perfect control of mind and perfect peace.

Kaos
29 July 2007, 04:22 AM
You can control the mind if you control the semen- and in turn control the prana- all 3 are linked. This is why Julian says try and be an Urdervata Yogi- then you will have perfect control of mind and perfect peace.


Please provide specific sources, links to your claims and be prepared to back it up.
Otherwise, what you speak of is nothing but hot air and empty talk.

Atman
29 July 2007, 07:19 PM
Please provide specific sources, links to your claims and be prepared to back it up.
Otherwise, what you speak of is nothing but hot air and empty talk.

Oh I can more than do that my friend. Check out www.celibacy.info (http://www.celibacy.info) as well as the link to Swami Sivananda. And this information I got from the Garaytri Meditation book on how to achieve the highest bliss- it's certainly worth a read.

Kaos
29 July 2007, 10:59 PM
Oh I can more than do that my friend. Check out www.celibacy.info (http://www.celibacy.info) as well as the link to Swami Sivananda. And this information I got from the Garaytri Meditation book on how to achieve the highest bliss- it's certainly worth a read.


Thank you for the link, but this is nothing new as consciously guiding the energy in our body using the channels, pranas and chakras have been used by yogis since time immemorial, thereby controlling mind.

The article is basically to draw attention against what it calls "evil sex habits" such as masturbation.

But the question is what else does one masturbate with when it pertains to the mind??

Atman
31 July 2007, 03:01 AM
You have to control the mental thoughts that might tempt you to get an orgasm. Go to www.meditationexpert.com (http://www.meditationexpert.com)- scroll down to articles, and read the chapter on 100 days foundation of no sexual activity.