Hari Krishna and Forgiveness

[SylviaRNexus]

I was wondering, I read this line:

"Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit." (Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa)

I know the chanting the Hari Krishna mantra can free one from their sins HOWEVER, the above line, from my understanding, if a person once says the words "Hari Krishna" are they still free from their sins? Is this true?

[philosoraptor]

I was wondering, I read this line:

"Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit." (Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa)

I know the chanting the Hari Krishna mantra can free one from their sins HOWEVER, the above line, from my understanding, if a person once says the words "Hari Krishna" are they still free from their sins? Is this true?

There are many statements like that in the smRiti. Some may dismiss it as mere arthavAda, i.e. to induce sinful people to do harinAma. Others see it as true, and as evidence of the glories of the Lord's holy names. Me, I have some doubts as to whether or not I am forgiven, each time I chant His names. After all, I see myself, like many that I meet, as a "part-time spiritualist" lacking in sincerity. Then again, I often note that the true devotee does not take up the chanting of His name for any purpose other than the pleasure of glorifying Him.

I tend to think that it is the Lord's prerogative whether or not to forgive us our sins. But otherwise, I would tend to believe what the shAstras say on this subject, viz that the Lord cleanses us of our sins via the chanting of His name, but also that He reserves the right not to do so if we lack in sincerity.

Interesting question. I would be interested to hear about other devotees' insights on this subject.

[Viraja]

Yes, it is correct, it does work, but one who says 'Hari' just once and has his sins or sins of others burnt away must be a very profound sadhaka - a saint. In the story of Kabirdas, we find once that when he was playfully stoning down some fruits, a bird accidentally got hit and it fell down dead. Sri Kabirdas, then recited 'Sri Ramatrayodasakshari mantra' once and the bird came alive and flew away!

At another story, we find that Sri Padmanabha Vediyar, one of Kabirdas's sishyas encountered a merchant who wanted to commit suicide, unable to bear the pain of his advanced Leprosy. To him Sri Padmanabha Vediyar recited Rama nama taraka-mantra 3 times and he immediately recovered. But his guru Sri Kabirdas is playfully angry at Padmanabha - he says, "Reciting Sri Rama's name once alone is enough, why did you have to recite it 3 times to cure him?". To this, Padmanabha Vediyar says, "The first time he gave Rama's name for getting rid of his sin in not finding a guru all this time though living in this holy Kashi, the second time for the disease to get cured and a third time, to get moksha. Guruji, maybe if you had done it, you could have done all three results to be procured in just one mention of Sri Rama's name, but to me it took 3 times..".

Why were Kabirdas and Padmanabha Vediyar were able to cure others' sins thus with just one mention of Sri Rama's name? Kabir, for instance, had done penance reciting continuously Sri Rama's name and living just on water otherwise, for 12 full years!!

Thus we see reciting once the name of Hari is enough, but one should be a sadhaka to expect the same results as obtained by Kabir and Padmanabha Vediyar.

[SylviaRNexus]

Alright. Let's assume a person ONCE chants the hare Krishna mantra and gives up their sinful activities never to repeat it again, are they forgiven by Lord Krishna?

[Eastern Mind]

I was wondering, I read this line:

"Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit." (Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa)

I know the chanting the Hari Krishna mantra can free one from their sins HOWEVER, the above line, from my understanding, if a person once says the words "Hari Krishna" are they still free from their sins? Is this true?


Vannakkam: Personally, I don't buy this idea. I think it is exaggeration. I do beleive that the saying of God's name is helpful on the path, but not quite to this extent. As for 'sin' I think it is a mistranslation, coming from translators very familiar with the term. 'Error in judgement about dharma' might be better.

Aum Namasivaya

Aum Namasivaya

[Viraja]

Vannakkam: Personally, I don't buy this idea. I think it is exaggeration. I do beleive that the saying of God's name is helpful on the path, but not quite to this extent. As for 'sin' I think it is a mistranslation, coming from translators very familiar with the term. 'Error in judgement about dharma' might be better.

Aum Namasivaya

Aum Namasivaya

I want to agree with EMji above and add this to what I said, 'that while a saint with lot of tapas is believed to have cured many peoples' sins and suffering with just 1 utterance of divine name, it is not possible for the common man to do so'. :)

[smaranam]

I was wondering, I read this line:

"Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit." (Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa)

I know the chanting the Hari Krishna mantra can free one from their sins HOWEVER, the above line, from my understanding, if a person once says the words "Hari Krishna" are they still free from their sins? Is this true?

praNAm

Yes, this statement is to be accepted with sincerity. Virajaji brings up the factor of purity and anartha nivRtti (having overcome material flaws), and Philosoraptor brings up the factor of sincerity. Both are relevant and important conditions eventually, from the practical standpoint.

However, pl. see bhagvat shlok 6.2.14** at the end of this post. It says even if you chant Hari's name jokingly, or meaninglessly, it will not be wasted. It will purify you -- be it by a nanometer or millimeter. It is owing to the infinite kindness and compassion of the Lord. He gave rAkshasi pUtnA (who had come to kill Him) , the position of His mother and took her to VaikunTha just because she had a momentary feeling of motherhood for Him.

That being said, as far as developing pure bhakti and love of God is concerned, the unwritten (assumed) word in your quote is "offenselessly"

When the holy names of Hari are chanted offenselessly, that is when they can actually move aside the cloud of material impurity and bring you to Bhagvan. Devotees have had this experience. It is real.

Please note that "offense" implies whether or not it will invoke pure love of God in you. This word is not to be taken as some crime commited, although to the pure devotee it is a crime to chant offensively.

The padma purAN lists 10 offenses to the Holy Names of Hari (NAmAparAdh) to be avoided. An extra one is inattention while saying the name.


Some may dismiss it as mere arthavAda, i.e. to induce sinful people to do harinAma.

Considering the glories of HarinAm to be arthavAd (an exaggeration, hyperbole, poetic figure of speech) is the fifth offense in the list of 10 offenses. One has to be very careful of this nAmAparAdh, and maintain the attitude accordingly.


(nAmAparAdh 5)
artha-vadah
To consider the glories of the Holy Name of Lord VishNu as a poetic exaggeration or to give some interpretation on the holy name of the Lord.

(nAmAparAdh 6)
hari-namni kalpanam
To consider the glories of the holy name of the Lord as imagination.

-- Padma PurAN, Brahma Kanda, Chapter 25 Verses 15 through 18 describes the ten offenses.


----------------

**SB6.2.14 (http://vedabase.net/sb/6/2/14/)
sāńketyaḿ (http://vedabase.net/sb/6/2/14/) pārihāsyaḿ (http://vedabase.net/p/parihasyam) vā (http://vedabase.net/v/va)
stobhaḿ (http://vedabase.net/s/stobham) helanam (http://vedabase.net/h/helanam) eva (http://vedabase.net/e/eva) vā (http://vedabase.net/v/va)
vaikuṇṭha (http://vedabase.net/v/vaikuntha)-nāma (http://vedabase.net/n/nama)-grahaṇam (http://vedabase.net/g/grahanam)
aśeṣāgha-haraḿ (http://vedabase.net/h/haram) viduḥ (http://vedabase.net/v/viduh)
One who chants the holy name of the Lord is immediately freed from the reactions of unlimited sins, even if he chants indirectly [to indicate something else], jokingly, for musical entertainment, or even neglectfully. This is accepted by all the learned scholars of the scriptures.


_/\_

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~

[Viraja]

Alright. Let's assume a person ONCE chants the hare Krishna mantra and gives up their sinful activities never to repeat it again, are they forgiven by Lord Krishna?

IMHO, the rules of karma are very complex. We have to read profound (and right) scriptures to have a preliminary understanding to it. Going by what I think about it, karma cannot be easily dismissed by one unless aided by a saint of immense spiritual strength. And even such saints do not readily grant freedom from sins - I remember reading in the story of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, a man who suffered from incurable and debilitating stomach pain. He was by the side of Paramahamsa always and inspite of it, for a very long time, Paramahamsa allowed him to go on with his suffering. Only at a time, when the man came to Paramahamsa and told him with tears in his eyes, that he had suffered enough for that lifetime and thus to help him get rid of the remaining to suffer in his next birth, did Ramakrishna take to his mercy and is said to have cured his ailment. Therefore we cannot expect sins to be rid of very easily:

i) To rid of sins very easily, one needs to be helped by a saint.

ii) To rid of some of the sins very easily by chanting hari's name once, one should first believe that by thus chanting, one's sins will indeed get reduced - it is said people who bathe in Ganga should first believe that by bathing thus, their sins get washed away - how many in practice really believe so?

[Anirudh]

Law of Karma is very simple. Say you picked up infection due to your negligence in practising healthy habits, infection is the result of your bad actions/karma ie negligence in practising healthy habits. Now if you get medical assistance your sufferings will be lesser but you cannot escape from the effects of bad Karma. Suppose you cannot afford medical assistance, then you ll suffer more. Chanting bhagwaan's name increases your ability to afford medical assistance. Now if you are not sincere while chanting, you won't get assistance. You can live happily even without chanting his name provided you don't indulge in bad actions. As a human we slip and accrue bad karma. So we need to stay closer to him. The closer we are lesser will be our misery. We can not get closer unless we are genuine.

As for as I am concerned a genuine talk without any kind of inhibition has the equal effect of chanting slokas or his name. I have experienced Sree Nrsimha around me. All I have to do is surrender to him completely just like Paanchaali did when she was getting disrobed.

Sufferings due town bad Karma will vanish in seconds. Paanchaali was saved from humiliation yet she had to undergo toughtime along with her husbands.

[Viraja]

Law of Karma is very simple.

I for one, never understood the current day success of politicians who amass all the wealth but are corrupt to the core (capable of murdering many or even mass murders) or of glorious beauty queens when so many are born utterly dark and weigh a ton, or of the honesty in having returned a bag full of money by a homeless man and so forth... What merit or lack of it would they have done? :)

[Anirudh]

Namaste Aspirant,

Under the pretext of modernity, we are moving away from the moral values. When there is a decline in moral values of the general public, the resultant Karma manifests itself into Asuras. Politicians are the modern day Asurs. Its needless to discuss the power and wealth they possessed and ofcourse the atrocity committed by Asurs.

If I smoke, its my family members Dharma to stop me from doing so. If they don't they too will have to face the bad effects of my smoking. We pollute the nature in the worst possible way, and still we expect Nature to keep quite.

To understand the law of Karma, I would suggest you to read Ramayana. Compare the events described in it with your own. You ll realize how many mistakes you have committed in the past. Also check with your present lifestyle and ask yourself whether you deserve the goodness you are enjoying at present. You ll find answers to the questions you have raised.

Our scriptures have tons and tons of wisdom embedded in them. We not only neglect them but rely on western theories which mocks at our scriptures. Most of the postulates we read in our Science books were available in our scriptures since ages. But we won't teach our scriptures to our children. Illiteracy is a cyclic devil but we are spread it.
A final word, if Congress or DMK or anyother party is looting us, then we should ask ourselves why did we allow them in first place. That question will trigger series of questions. Then spend sometime to read AnthaShasthra or Mahabharata. Then kindly read what our beloved Mahatma Gandhi had done to us. We today in one way or other paying heavily for His wise decision to keep an atheist at the top by sidelining other freedom fighters.

Ask yourself why all Kauravas were destined to die? Duryodhan wasn't all that bad, but why he met that fate?

I ll stop here, because I will go on and on. I ll reiterate. Law of Karma is simple. As you sow, so you ll reap.

[philosoraptor]

I would not say it is so simple. Aspirant has a point. Why do wealthy politicians live in luxury and yet they have no moral values? Why do beauty queens get name and fame and then live lives of pointless materialism with little or no spiritual values? The reality is that karma is quite complicated, because the reactions we enjoy or suffer can be from actions committed in any of our millions of previous lives, or even within this life itself. Thus, we are indeed reaping what we sow, but over countless lifetimes.

There is another point here, and that is that "good" karma can be binding without any jnaana to point to a higher purpose in living. The corrupt politician enjoys his wealth from previous "good" karma, but will earn much bad karma for his corruption in the hear and now, and he may suffer the reaction for it in this life but most likely will do so in a future life.

Karma is like the spoke of a turning wheel - sometimes up, sometimes down. The purpose of life is to break free of this cyclical mode of existence.

[Eastern Mind]

I for one, never understood the current day success of politicians who amass all the wealth but are corrupt to the core (capable of murdering many or even mass murders) or of glorious beauty queens when so many are born utterly dark and weigh a ton, or of the honesty in having returned a bag full of money by a homeless man and so forth... What merit or lack of it would they have done? :)

Vannakkam: My understanding of this phenomena is they are very young souls, not evolved enough to be able to see through this maya, clouded by anava. They are the pre-schoolers in the school of life, the evolution of the soul to its destiny, and have many hundreds of lifetimes to go. Since they are so very very unaware, their karma may not be so bad, such as the person who doesn't know about ahimsa.

They also provide a lesson for the rest of us ... not to be like them.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ramakrishna]

I for one, never understood the current day success of politicians who amass all the wealth but are corrupt to the core (capable of murdering many or even mass murders) or of glorious beauty queens when so many are born utterly dark and weigh a ton, or of the honesty in having returned a bag full of money by a homeless man and so forth... What merit or lack of it would they have done? :)


Vannakkam: My understanding of this phenomena is they are very young souls, not evolved enough to be able to see through this maya, clouded by anava. They are the pre-schoolers in the school of life, the evolution of the soul to its destiny, and have many hundreds of lifetimes to go. Since they are so very very unaware, their karma may not be so bad, such as the person who doesn't know about ahimsa.

They also provide a lesson for the rest of us ... not to be like them.

Aum Namasivaya

Sita Ram,

Surely, at the same time, there is a collective aspect to karma. It is not just the individualized karma of the greedy, corrupt politicians' souls, but the collectivized implementations of the fruits of karma for society as a whole. The degrees of interconnection between embodied consciousness is surely immense, if not infinite; therefore, would not the very nature of these souls, their karmic nature, be interconnected as well? With such astounding degrees of interconnectivity, they are dramatically related to the extent of collective actions having collective fruits and consequences. In the example of the greedy, corrupt politicians, their current state has a tremendous impact on society itself, due to the collective actions of all. It is not only the prior karma of the greedy, corrupt politicians' souls, but the prior karma of society as a whole that bears fruit the predicament of all; that predicament being the current state of affairs, politically, socially, and spiritually. The karmic debts of egoistic souls embodied as greedy, corrupt politicians and the collectivized suffering of society as a whole due to it's zeal to find bliss in the grasp of those egoistic politicians is the karmic fruits in play of the interconnected souls of pure consciousness. We all can look back to the time of Ram Rajya for the inspiration for future karma - a time when society placed it's trust, love, and faith in God Himself; at the lotus feet of the Lord rather than the hands of egoistic souls; not in the illusory appeal of the ego, but in the love and bliss of the Self.

Jai Sri Ram

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Ramakrishna: Yes, you make a good point. The attractive runway model making so much money is often not happy, and nothing more than a slave to a clothing capitalist, and the rich athletes are only there because of a collection of people willing to pay to watch them. Politicians can be nobodies who run for the right party at the right time. So its the party (a collective) that gets the individual elected.

Excellent points . Thanks.

Aum namasivaya

[Viraja]

Vannakkam: My understanding of this phenomena is they are very young souls, not evolved enough to be able to see through this maya, clouded by anava. They are the pre-schoolers in the school of life, the evolution of the soul to its destiny, and have many hundreds of lifetimes to go. Since they are so very very unaware, their karma may not be so bad, such as the person who doesn't know about ahimsa.

They also provide a lesson for the rest of us ... not to be like them.

Aum Namasivaya

That is an excellent idea. Thank you for sharing it with us, EMji.

Thank you also, Ramakrishna ji. Your post on collective consciousness and its karma is interesting. We would be interested in knowing the collective karma of Hindustan in having fallen into the hands of such politicians whose only interest is self-promotion and a general mode of functioning where only bribes sell even for a petty job with the government.

[kriyarameeshh]

Sri Matre Namaha,

what are the merits of discussing such matters?

Can't we have some better topics to discuss.

I have gone through a lot of forums of this site, but am deeply disappointed with the forums under Puranas.

Nothing but mud slinging or some useless discussions are happening here under these forums.

For once I felt that I should remove my profile from this site.

Sri Matre Namaha

[Kamal108]

I was wondering, I read this line:

"Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit." (Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa)

I know the chanting the Hari Krishna mantra can free one from their sins HOWEVER, the above line, from my understanding, if a person once says the words "Hari Krishna" are they still free from their sins? Is this true?


This is correct. In the Brahmanda Purana it is stated:

sahasra-namnam punyanam, trir-avrttya tu yat phalam;
ekavrttya tu krsnasya, namaikam tat prayacchati.

"And the pious results (punya) achieved by chanting the thousand holy names of Visnu (Visnu-sahasra-nama-stotram) three times or the Holy Name of Rama thrice can be attained by only one utterance of the Holy Name of Krsna"

And Krsna name have these sin-purifying effect it states in many puranas and samhitas.
But there are offences against the Holy Name of Krsna/Visnu and they must be avoid otherewise You don`t have any effect. Whole vaisnava philosophy is based on the idea not to offend holy name, saint persons and scriptures.
There offences against Holy Name are exacly like below:

The offenses against chanting the holy name are as follows: 1) To blaspheme the devotees who have dedicated their lives for propagating the holy name of the Lord.
2) To consider the names of the demigods like Lord Siva or Lord Brahma to be equal to, or independent of, the name Lord Visnu.
3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
4) To blaspheme the Vedic literature or literature in pursuance of the Vedic version.
5) To consider the glories of chanting Hare Krsna to be imagination.
6) To give some interpretation on the holy name of the Lord.
7) To commit sinful activities on the strength of chanting the holy name of the Lord.
8) To consider chanting of Hare Krsna one of the auspicious ritualistic activities offered in the Vedas as fruitive activities (karma-kanda).
9) To instruct a faithless person about the glories of the holy name.
10) To not have complete faith in the chanting of the holy names and to maintain material attachments, even after understanding so many instructions on this matter.
Every devotee who claims to be a Vaisnava must guard against these offenses in order to quickly achieve the desired success.
Remember that even if one feels they are being offensive, there is no need to stop chanting. By trying to chant sincerely and serving the spiritual master, we may be purified of our offenses and may be able to chant purely.



This is vaisnava understanding of this point. If You say one name without offence You can be saved. Read the story of sinful Ajamila from Bhagavata Purana he was saved only by saing the Name of Narayana at the moment of death. But still You can`t just say one name and that`s all, because by the mercy of The Name of Krsna Your sinfull reaction will be manifested even in this life not only after death and You will get reaction not as a result of karma but as a lesson not to do it again and it will be not karma but a tiny reaction to stop You from do it again. This is the Holy Name mercy.

Devotees who chant the Name od Krsna constantly have this experience (vijnana). You get reaction but not as hard as You should and it will be to stop You.