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IcyCosmic
24 March 2013, 01:39 PM
Namaste all,

I've been very curious about some of these OSHO meditations. I'm not sure if these are even described in hindu scriptures at all, or if they are even effective. Though they look fun and very easy to do. Could someone shed some light on it? They are not conventional at all and involve dancing...

At the moment, I'm thinking of doing the Kundalini and the Dynamic Meditation. Described on his site. Please take a look. If you click meditation on the left, you can see the other ones.

http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Meditation&Sub1Menu=ActiveMeditation&Sub2Menu=Kundalini

Believer
24 March 2013, 01:56 PM
Namaste,

If they are helpful to you, go for them.

One of the basic teachings of OSHO was that if something was coming in the way of your meditation, do it, and do it with wild abandon till you are satiated with it. Only then you can get back to meditating seriously. With that as one his basic principles, he advocated and indulged in uncontrolled sex with all the commune members. So, at a personal level, I tend to shy away from his "teachings". But if he floats your boat, who am I to argue!

Pranam.

IcyCosmic
24 March 2013, 02:01 PM
Namaste,

If they are helpful to you, go for them.

One of the basic teachings of OSHO was that if something was coming in the way of your meditation, do it, and do it with wild abandon till you are satiated with it. Only then you can get back to meditating seriously. With that as one his basic principles, he advocated and indulged in uncontrolled sex with all the commune members. So, at a personal level, I tend to shy away from his "teachings". But if he floats your boat, who am I to argue!

Pranam.

Yeah, I heard about the sex thing. Not sure how I feel about that. Thanks for the advice. Asides from his personal views, what do you feel about the actual meditation discourses. Do they help in any way? As the traditional meditations do.

philosoraptor
24 March 2013, 04:50 PM
I have a policy against taking meditation advice from sexual miscreants.

I think Osho has the dubious distinction of being the first "Hindu guru" to be deported from the United States for criminal activity. I really have no idea why anyone would go to him for any sort of spiritual insight.

ShivaFan
24 March 2013, 07:16 PM
Gosh Icy, I know you will, but please be careful. Sexual abandon in this day and age is a death sentence with HIV and AIDS, what to speak of other horrors. On a lighter note, don't be surprised if you happen to go to one of their "dance events" that some odd person who stinks is going to come up behind you and try and pull your pants down, and you get in a fist fight trying to get the heck out of there by punching some butch lady blocking your extreme exit left.

Warning to others - I tried to play the dance video from my cell phone, instead it would not play but did a download a video and crashed my phone.

Om Namah Sivaya

Eastern Mind
24 March 2013, 09:21 PM
Vannakkam: I don't think Osho ever claimed to be a Hindu. As far as I remember, he was pretty critical of us, and all other 'organized' religions.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
24 March 2013, 09:42 PM
Osho was a very controversial figure. He did abuse Hindu religious teachings for his personal gains. He is not the only person who has done this, but this is a sensitive topic for many people on the forum.

If you are interested in a moving meditation, there are forms of yoga that use movement, like Ashtanga Vinyasa which was first taught by Vamana Rishi. This is a very athletic type of yoga and may not be suited for everyone. The Tibetan yogi's practiced a milder of form moving yoga, like Yantra Yoga. The Chinese practised even more milder forms of movement based meditation like Qigong. (The legend in China goes that Qigong was brought to China by Bodhidharma, a Buddhist monk travelling from India.)

Pick any of the above meditations and don't even think about following some neo-Tantric weirdo.

realdemigod
25 March 2013, 06:21 AM
Many say that he is an impostor as we have some evidence. But his teachings are not bad. I have seen some of his videos he is an ardent atheist but he believed in Sat-chit-ananda ('Bliss'). I really wonder if he got liberated :D

IcySupreme - if the meditation is working for you then you should follow that. Meditation is about cleansing the mind and seeing reality as is. You can measure that with any guru's teachings.

Necromancer
25 March 2013, 10:30 AM
Namaste all,

I've been very curious about some of these OSHO meditations. I'm not sure if these are even described in hindu scriptures at all, or if they are even effective. Though they look fun and very easy to do. Could someone shed some light on it? They are not conventional at all and involve dancing...

At the moment, I'm thinking of doing the Kundalini and the Dynamic Meditation. Described on his site. Please take a look. If you click meditation on the left, you can see the other ones.

http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Meditation&Sub1Menu=ActiveMeditation&Sub2Menu=Kundalini
Namaste.

If you look beyond the man and to the message, most of Osho's teachings relate closer to Zen Buddhism than to Hinduism.

I like the whole 'spontaneity' bit and the 'be here now' philosophy.

I was a lay disciple of Osho way back when...when he was called Bhagavan Sri Rajneesh and we all had to dress in colours of the setting sun.

I left long before all the scandal broke out....when 'shaktipat' was given freely, without any work for it. It seemed just too 'commercial'...too 'easy'.

I have the same feeling towards the Sahaja Yoga movement and all their 'cool breeze' stuff.

I guess I am just too old and cynical now.

Aum Namah Shivaya

satay
25 March 2013, 12:38 PM
Namaste icy,

There is a book called "the book of secrets". It contains osho discourses on all meditation techniques from tantra. These techniques were spoken by lord shiva to ma Parvati. It is a great book to have in your library. I think if you look hard enough you might even find it online. If you are interested in reading osho take on the techniques, I recommend this book. It is a bit pricey and took me a couple of years to decide because of price if I really wanted it in my library or not.

Check it out.

satay
25 March 2013, 12:56 PM
Namaste,

Osho was deported because he was way too outspoken about the maleccha religion of Christianity. In many of his discourses he made anti Christianity comments, jokes about the pope etc. Vatican banned a number of his books. I believe that since he spoke so loudly against Christianity and its crimes against humanity that everything was done to silence him, to tarnish his reputation and to finally poison him and thus kill him.

That said, he had unorthodox ideas about a relationship between a man and a woman, especially it came to sexual relations. He believed that sex is a basic need and should not create any obligation to stay together with each other for eternity.

I have read many of his discourses and I don't find any thing wrong in what he says, just a different perspective on the human condition. I am lucky to have close to thirty if not more of his books. If you run out of reading material, check out any of his books. Only caveat, he might turn you into an atheist if you are not cautious. You have to read him keeping in mind that it is his perspective, a different perspective and you are well within your own right to disagree with him.


I have a policy against taking meditation advice from sexual miscreants.

I think Osho has the dubious distinction of being the first "Hindu guru" to be deported from the United States for criminal activity. I really have no idea why anyone would go to him for any sort of spiritual insight.

Sahasranama
25 March 2013, 01:55 PM
Namaste,

Osho was deported because he was way too outspoken about the maleccha religion of Christianity. In many of his discourses he made anti Christianity comments, jokes about the pope etc. That is because Christianity was the prevailing dogma where he was preaching. He would not have any problem giving the same treatment to Hinduism if that would serve to create attention for him.


Vatican banned a number of his books. I believe that since he spoke so loudly against Christianity and its crimes against humanity that everything was done to silence him, to tarnish his reputation and to finally poison him and thus kill him.That is what his nutjob followers think. Prabhupada followers believe the same. Even if it was true, it makes no difference. In the west people become important after they have been persecuted, like Christ and Socrates. But persecution should not matter to someone who looks objectively at the content of someone's teachings, not just what happened to the individual.


That said, he had unorthodox ideas about a relationship between a man and a woman, especially it came to sexual relations. He believed that sex is a basic need and should not create any obligation to stay together with each other for eternity.These ideas were adopted from the hippie culture that existed at those time. It has very little to do with Tantra. This type of thinking is just as extreme as imposing lifelong monogamous relations on the entire society, but on the other end of the spectrum. By the way, Osho was severely homophobic.


I have read many of his discourses and I don't find any thing wrong in what he says, just a different perspective on the human condition. It is great if you can read someone's work as just another perspective, but most people don't have that discrimination and follow the teachings of these gurus as gospel.

satay
25 March 2013, 02:06 PM
Namaste shas,
My first response was to the OP. the second post that you replied to is for philoso. Are you saying philoso has no foundational knowledge of Hinduism? I beg to differ.

You seem to be mixing up my posts. I never said osho teachings have anything to do with tantra just that his book of secrets does. And re Hinduism, yes you are right, in fact osho did give the same treatment to Hinduism.

Sahasranama
25 March 2013, 02:19 PM
Namaste shas,
My first response was to the OP. the second post that you replied to is for philoso. Are you saying philoso has no foundational knowledge of Hinduism? I beg to differ. No, I was talking about the readers of this forum in general and about IcySupreme, not about philosoraptor.


You seem to be mixing up my posts. I never said osho teachings have anything to do with tantra just that his book of secrets does.I wasn't responding directly to what you said, but to how the Osho beliefs you mentioned are inconsistent. Osho and other neo-Tantriks look at Tantra for an excuse to fullfull their materialistic desires. This is a backward justification, because Tantrik regulations about sexuality, alcohol and meat consumption were often a lot stricter than what was followed outside of Tantra.


And re Hinduism, yes you are right, in fact osho did give the same treatment to Hinduism.Yes.

philosoraptor
25 March 2013, 08:41 PM
Pranams,

Here is what I found on wiki:

"In mid 1981, Osho relocated to the United States and his followers established an intentional community, later known as Rajneeshpuram, in the state of Oregon. Within a year, the leadership of the commune became embroiled in a conflict with local residents, primarily over land use, which was marked by hostility on both sides. The large collection of Rolls-Royce automobiles purchased for his use by his followers also attracted criticism. The Oregon commune collapsed in 1985 when Osho revealed that the commune leadership had committed a number of serious crimes, including a bioterror attack (food contamination) on the citizens of The Dalles.[6] He was arrested shortly afterwards and charged with immigration violations. Osho was deported from the United States in accordance with a plea bargain.[7][8][9] Twenty-one countries denied him entry, causing Osho to travel the world before returning to Poona, where he died in 1990."

Admittedly, immigration law, like many laws criminalizing non-aggressive behavior, is often used to punish those deemed as detractors by society. But being denied entry by 21 countries strikes me as a real accomplishment just for speaking out against Christianity. This is a man who, by all accounts, lived a live of great opulence and sexual indulgence even while talking about things like meditation. I'm baffled that anyone would think that a mleccha like him worth listening to when you evaluate his teachings in the context of the life he lead. Simply gratifying your senses with indulgence is hardly very original as far as philosophy is concerned. It seems to me that his main appeal is that he pontificates on some flowery points of philosophy, but these appear to be extracted from older religions.

"In questioning how the total corpus of Osho's work might be summarised, Bob Mullan, a sociologist from the University of East Anglia, stated in 1983: "It certainly is eclectic, a borrowing of truths, half-truths and occasional misrepresentations from the great traditions. It is also often bland, inaccurate, spurious and extremely contradictory."[216] He also acknowledged that Osho's range and imagination were second to none,[216] and that many of his statements were quite insightful and moving, perhaps even profound at times,[217] but what remained was essentially "a potpourri of counter-culturalist and post-counter-culturalist ideas" focusing on love and freedom, the need to live for the moment, the importance of self, the feeling of "being okay", the mysteriousness of life, the fun ethic, the individual's responsibility for their own destiny, and the need to drop the ego, along with fear and guilt.[218]
Uday Mehta, in summing up an appraisal of Osho's teachings, particularly errors regarding his interpretation of Zen, Mahayana Buddhism and how they relate to the proto-materialist nature of Tantric philosophy, suggests that: "It is not surprising to find that Rajneesh could get away with several gross contradictions and inconsistencies in his teachings. This was possible for the simple reason that an average Indian (or for that matter even western) listener knows so little about religious scriptures or various schools of thought that it hardly requires much effort to exploit his ignorance and gullibility."[219] According to Mehta, Osho's appeal to his Western disciples was based on his social experiments, which established a philosophical connection between the Eastern guru tradition and the Western growth movement.[210]
Writing in 1996, Hugh B. Urban (Assistant Professor of Religion and Comparative Studies at Ohio State University), like Mullan, found Osho's teaching neither original nor especially profound, noting that most of its content had been borrowed from various Eastern and Western philosophies.[160] What he found most original about Osho was his keen commercial instinct or marketing strategy, by which he was able to adapt his teachings to meet the changing desires of his audience,[160] a theme also picked up on by Gita Mehta in her book Karma Cola: Marketing the Mystic East.[220] In 2005, Urban observed that Osho had undergone a "remarkable apotheosis" after his return to India, and especially in the years since his death, going on to describe him as a powerful illustration of what F. Max Müller, over a century ago, called "that world-wide circle through which, like an electric current, Oriental thought could run to the West and Western thought return to the East."[221] By negating the dichotomy between spiritual and material desires, and reflecting the preoccupation with the body and sexuality characteristic of late capitalist consumer culture, Osho had apparently been able to create a spiritual path that was remarkably in tune with the socio-economic conditions of his time.[221]"

Omkara
25 March 2013, 09:27 PM
If you want to study Tantric Meditation, Swami Lakshmanjoo, Jaideva Singh, Mark Dzykowski are much better. Osho and his teachings should be kept at arm's length.

IcyCosmic
27 March 2013, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the replies. Before I address them I'd like to make something clear. I am not partial to OSHO or any of his teachings. I don't follow him and whenever I view any of his philosophical opinions it is with a open mind. The reason I mention this is, if OSHO taught a specific part of the Gita word for word, without imposing his own opinion on it, just because its OSHO it wouldn't become invalid. So I ask that when you reply please understand I don't care about OSHO's contextual foundation in this case, only if the meditation techniques are effective. His personal escapades regarding sex and meditation are irrelevant. Thankyou.


Gosh Icy, I know you will, but please be careful. Sexual abandon in this day and age is a death sentence with HIV and AIDS, what to speak of other horrors. On a lighter note, don't be surprised if you happen to go to one of their "dance events" that some odd person who stinks is going to come up behind you and try and pull your pants down, and you get in a fist fight trying to get the heck out of there by punching some butch lady blocking your extreme exit left.

Warning to others - I tried to play the dance video from my cell phone, instead it would not play but did a download a video and crashed my phone.

Om Namah Sivaya

Namaste ShivaFan, thanks for the response. Rest assured I won't do anything that involves sexual abandon, and if he recommends that sort of behavior in conjuction with the meditation I am completely disattached from it. I just want to know if the actual meditation practice itself is beneficial.


Osho was a very controversial figure. He did abuse Hindu religious teachings for his personal gains. He is not the only person who has done this, but this is a sensitive topic for many people on the forum.

If you are interested in a moving meditation, there are forms of yoga that use movement, like Ashtanga Vinyasa which was first taught by Vamana Rishi. This is a very athletic type of yoga and may not be suited for everyone. The Tibetan yogi's practiced a milder of form moving yoga, like Yantra Yoga. The Chinese practised even more milder forms of movement based meditation like Qigong. (The legend in China goes that Qigong was brought to China by Bodhidharma, a Buddhist monk travelling from India.)

Pick any of the above meditations and don't even think about following some neo-Tantric weirdo.

Namaste. I will check these out, thanks for the recommendations.


Namaste icy,

There is a book called "the book of secrets". It contains osho discourses on all meditation techniques from tantra. These techniques were spoken by lord shiva to ma Parvati. It is a great book to have in your library. I think if you look hard enough you might even find it online. If you are interested in reading osho take on the techniques, I recommend this book. It is a bit pricey and took me a couple of years to decide because of price if I really wanted it in my library or not.

Check it out.

Namaste Satay. I remember you mentioned OSHO in a previous thread I made about him. I will check it out. I was a tad surprised to see all the negative press around him. After I was watching his discourses I became disattached immediately to his overall philosophy when some of his stern veiws didn't resonate with me. Although I have the utmost respect for the man. I know people whose entire houses are filled with OSHO books and CD's. This fellow has 8 books full of notes of his work. Incredible really. I will take a look at this book. Thankyou.


If you want to study Tantric Meditation, Swami Lakshmanjoo, Jaideva Singh, Mark Dzykowski are much better. Osho and his teachings should be kept at arm's length.

Thanks. I will take a look. After reading what I mentioned in the first paragraph of this post, would you reevaluate your sentiment on keeping OSHO's teachings at arms length or would it not change.

satay
27 March 2013, 01:44 PM
namaste philosoraptor,


Pranams,

Here is what I found on wiki:


If you want to know about Osho, I suggest you read any of his books and make up your own mind.

As far as OP, I recommend the book, The book of secrets. I stand by this recommendation.

jignyAsu
27 March 2013, 02:41 PM
Thanks for the replies. Before I address them I'd like to make something clear. I am not partial to OSHO or any of his teachings. I don't follow him and whenever I view any of his philosophical opinions it is with a open mind. The reason I mention this is, if OSHO taught a specific part of the Gita word for word, without imposing his own opinion on it, just because its OSHO it wouldn't become invalid. So I ask that when you reply please understand I don't care about OSHO's contextual foundation in this case, only if the meditation techniques are effective. His personal escapades regarding sex and meditation are irrelevant.

Isn't a person's thinking a reflection of his meditation/sadhana? If Osho has becomes all of this after following Osho's meditation, how do you hope to follow it and become something else? You may repeat that you will be highly selective. But as some others have hinted, I think that dangerous thoughts can creep in before you even realize. Meditation is a mind game and he is a very influencial speaker.

In Hinduism, the tradition has always been to follow a teacher only after his/her wisdom and the resulting high moral standards have been verified.

Jetavan
27 March 2013, 05:59 PM
If Osho has becomes all of this after following Osho's meditation.......assuming Osho actually practiced those meditations himself. I don't seem to recall Osho's "awakening" being the result of practicing any particularly distinctive Osho-type meditation.

jignyAsu
27 March 2013, 06:25 PM
...assuming Osho actually practiced those meditations himself. I don't seem to recall Osho's "awakening" being the result of practicing any particularly distinctive Osho-type meditation.

That is correct. I don't think that he would claim that "awakening" will result from the meditation, either.

But do you think that his meditation affected his thinking at all?

philosoraptor
27 March 2013, 08:15 PM
Does anyone find milk touched by the lips of a serpent to be appetizing?

Necromancer
27 March 2013, 09:00 PM
Pranams,

Here is what I found on wiki:

"In mid 1981, Osho relocated to the United States and his followers established an intentional community, later known as Rajneeshpuram, in the state of Oregon. Within a year, the leadership of the commune became embroiled in a conflict with local residents, primarily over land use, which was marked by hostility on both sides. The large collection of Rolls-Royce automobiles purchased for his use by his followers also attracted criticism. The Oregon commune collapsed in 1985 when Osho revealed that the commune leadership had committed a number of serious crimes, including a bioterror attack (food contamination) on the citizens of The Dalles.[6] He was arrested shortly afterwards and charged with immigration violations. Osho was deported from the United States in accordance with a plea bargain.[7][8][9] Twenty-one countries denied him entry, causing Osho to travel the world before returning to Poona, where he died in 1990."

Admittedly, immigration law, like many laws criminalizing non-aggressive behavior, is often used to punish those deemed as detractors by society. But being denied entry by 21 countries strikes me as a real accomplishment just for speaking out against Christianity. This is a man who, by all accounts, lived a live of great opulence and sexual indulgence even while talking about things like meditation. I'm baffled that anyone would think that a mleccha like him worth listening to when you evaluate his teachings in the context of the life he lead. Simply gratifying your senses with indulgence is hardly very original as far as philosophy is concerned. It seems to me that his main appeal is that he pontificates on some flowery points of philosophy, but these appear to be extracted from older religions.

"In questioning how the total corpus of Osho's work might be summarised, Bob Mullan, a sociologist from the University of East Anglia, stated in 1983: "It certainly is eclectic, a borrowing of truths, half-truths and occasional misrepresentations from the great traditions. It is also often bland, inaccurate, spurious and extremely contradictory."[216] He also acknowledged that Osho's range and imagination were second to none,[216] and that many of his statements were quite insightful and moving, perhaps even profound at times,[217] but what remained was essentially "a potpourri of counter-culturalist and post-counter-culturalist ideas" focusing on love and freedom, the need to live for the moment, the importance of self, the feeling of "being okay", the mysteriousness of life, the fun ethic, the individual's responsibility for their own destiny, and the need to drop the ego, along with fear and guilt.[218]
Uday Mehta, in summing up an appraisal of Osho's teachings, particularly errors regarding his interpretation of Zen, Mahayana Buddhism and how they relate to the proto-materialist nature of Tantric philosophy, suggests that: "It is not surprising to find that Rajneesh could get away with several gross contradictions and inconsistencies in his teachings. This was possible for the simple reason that an average Indian (or for that matter even western) listener knows so little about religious scriptures or various schools of thought that it hardly requires much effort to exploit his ignorance and gullibility."[219] According to Mehta, Osho's appeal to his Western disciples was based on his social experiments, which established a philosophical connection between the Eastern guru tradition and the Western growth movement.[210]
Writing in 1996, Hugh B. Urban (Assistant Professor of Religion and Comparative Studies at Ohio State University), like Mullan, found Osho's teaching neither original nor especially profound, noting that most of its content had been borrowed from various Eastern and Western philosophies.[160] What he found most original about Osho was his keen commercial instinct or marketing strategy, by which he was able to adapt his teachings to meet the changing desires of his audience,[160] a theme also picked up on by Gita Mehta in her book Karma Cola: Marketing the Mystic East.[220] In 2005, Urban observed that Osho had undergone a "remarkable apotheosis" after his return to India, and especially in the years since his death, going on to describe him as a powerful illustration of what F. Max Müller, over a century ago, called "that world-wide circle through which, like an electric current, Oriental thought could run to the West and Western thought return to the East."[221] By negating the dichotomy between spiritual and material desires, and reflecting the preoccupation with the body and sexuality characteristic of late capitalist consumer culture, Osho had apparently been able to create a spiritual path that was remarkably in tune with the socio-economic conditions of his time.[221]"
Namaste.

That is very interesting.

I have been doing my own research...mainly into the circumstances surrounding his death (which I knew nothing about).

He passed away at a relatively young age and amid the allegations of thallium poisoning, there were also those who said that Osho was a regular user of Nitrous Oxide (laughing gas) for a jaw condition (he was a dentist).

He also had diabetes and heart problems, so I think that a cocktail of 'any/all of the above' could have done it.

I will provide links for the above upon request.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Jogesh
27 March 2013, 11:28 PM
Osho was a criminal fraud IMO....

http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/index.ssf/2011/04/part_one_it_was_worse_than_we.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/73907-ava-avalos-trial-testimony.html#document/p53/a14420

Eastern Mind
28 March 2013, 07:15 AM
Vannakkam: When we deal with committees in real life, and some of the people we are working with have a long standing tradition of generally proposing 'dumb' ideas, sometimes they might proposes a wonderful idea, and then because of the previous stuff, we all discard it, missing out on an opportunity. So when this happens, the more wise people involved work hard to separate the messenger form the message.

Suppose this teacher had written under a pen name, or sheets of paper fell from the sky with no name attached. A searcher could pick up the paper and read only the message, not realising where it came from. That would , IMO, be a much better way of deciding on whether or not any particular teacher suits you.

Back in adolescence, two people would tell the exact same joke. We'd all laugh at the cool guy's joke, but just stare rudely when the not so cool guy told the same joke. Are we that distorted about image?

So who cares where the message came from, as long as its a good message?

Aum Namasivaya

Jetavan
28 March 2013, 08:10 AM
That is correct. I don't think that he would claim that "awakening" will result from the meditation, either.

But do you think that his meditation affected his thinking at all?I'm not sure exactly what sort of meditation Osho practiced himself. I remember him saying something about spending his previous life as a yogi engaged in intense sadhana in the Himalayas.

IcyCosmic
28 March 2013, 08:38 AM
Vannakkam: When we deal with committees in real life, and some of the people we are working with have a long standing tradition of generally proposing 'dumb' ideas, sometimes they might proposes a wonderful idea, and then because of the previous stuff, we all discard it, missing out on an opportunity. So when this happens, the more wise people involved work hard to separate the messenger form the message.

Suppose this teacher had written under a pen name, or sheets of paper fell from the sky with no name attached. A searcher could pick up the paper and read only the message, not realising where it came from. That would , IMO, be a much better way of deciding on whether or not any particular teacher suits you.

Back in adolescence, two people would tell the exact same joke. We'd all laugh at the cool guy's joke, but just stare rudely when the not so cool guy told the same joke. Are we that distorted about image?

So who cares where the message came from, as long as its a good message?

Aum Namasivaya

Exactly. I'm honestly not interested whether OSHO practiced the meditation I linked or not. I want to know if it is effective and fruitive. Forget that it is associated with OSHO.

Thankyou.

jignyAsu
28 March 2013, 12:43 PM
Vannakkam: When we deal with committees in real life, and some of the people we are working with have a long standing tradition of generally proposing 'dumb' ideas, sometimes they might proposes a wonderful idea, and then because of the previous stuff, we all discard it, missing out on an opportunity. So when this happens, the more wise people involved work hard to separate the messenger form the message.


Dumb but not dangerous ideas. And you are assuming here that everyone can rightly separate the good from the bad ideas. This is clearly not true for newbies. Even for experienced ones, a thought can just creep in without us
notising and can influence us for years.


So who cares where the message came from, as long as its a good message?


Now, I am not suggesting that we search out only for Rishis in this age..but isn't it very practical to expect atleast minimum moral standards and sense control from who you are listening to? This has been the tradition and
this makes sense.

If you find that a teacher is caught in molestation, would you still listen to him? I bring this up because nowadays we have a few popular teachers (especially the distorted Advaita propounders) that clearly lack moral standards and in defense say that we should focus on the thought and not the person.

I am not trying to put down anyone here but I honestly think that the thought: "Focus on the thought and not the person" is very dangerous. I wouldn't teach that to my son/daughter..so I wouldn't advice that to any aspirant.

Eastern Mind
28 March 2013, 12:54 PM
Vannakkam jignyAsu: I don't really want to derail this thread. But I've worked with temple building committees. You'd be amazed at how some ideas are discounted immediately, not because of the idea, but because of the person. Equally likely is the opposite. Some ideas ate agreed to right away, if it comes from a certain person.

The same thing happens at labour-management negotiating tables, which I've also sat at. If it comes from the other side of the table, it must be a bad idea. Same too withj partisan politics. If they said it, then it must be bad.

Having said all that, I would certainly proceed with a lot more caution if reading words from someone who's behaviour didn't match.

Aum Namasivaya

Necromancer
30 March 2013, 02:21 AM
Vannakkam jignyAsu: I don't really want to derail this thread. But I've worked with temple building committees. You'd be amazed at how some ideas are discounted immediately, not because of the idea, but because of the person. Equally likely is the opposite. Some ideas ate agreed to right away, if it comes from a certain person.

The same thing happens at labour-management negotiating tables, which I've also sat at. If it comes from the other side of the table, it must be a bad idea. Same too withj partisan politics. If they said it, then it must be bad.

Having said all that, I would certainly proceed with a lot more caution if reading words from someone who's behaviour didn't match.

Aum Namasivaya
Namaste.

The whole line of thought involved there, equates to 'ad hominem' or 'to the man' and the human psyche is rather notorious for it.

I am a constant victim of it myself. Some can be so because their characters are quite controversial. Others, because they are not controversial enough.

Sometimes, we are persecuted for our beliefs, yet our retaliation justifies that persecution.

When it comes down to spiritual matters, it's very difficult to judge who is being the 'bigger hypocrite'.

We surround ourselves with our own 'versions of the truth' yet we wouldn't recognise it, even if spoken by a backstreet rapper somewhere.

In that regard, it's entirely subjective and experiential.

So, do that Osho meditation thing, dear OP and kindly tell us what you got out of it.

Aum Namah Shivaya