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yudhamanyu
11 March 2007, 10:34 AM
Here is an excerpt from the Indian spiritual genius and savant Swami Vivekananda’s (1863-1902) book ‘ Raja Yoga’.



" We find , in studying history, one fact held in common by all the great teachers of religion the world ever had . They all claim to have got their truths from beyond, only many of them did not know where they got them from. For instance, one would say that an angel came down in the form of a human being, with wings, and said to him, “Hear, O man, this is the message”.Another says that a Deva, a bright being, appeared to him. A third says he dreamed that his ancestor came and told him certain things. He did not know anything beyond that .But this is common that all claim that this knowledge has come to them from beyond, not through their reasoning power. What does the science of Yoga teach? It teaches that they were right in claiming that all this knowledge came to them from beyond reasoning, but that it came from within themselves.

The Yogi teaches that the mind itself has a higher state of existence, beyond reason, a superconscious state, and when the mind gets to that higher state,then this knowledge, beyond reasoning, comes to man . Metaphysical and transcendental knowledge comes to that man .This state of going beyond reason, transcending ordinary human nature, may sometimes come by chance to a man who does not understand its science; he , as it were, stumbles upon it. When he stumbles upon it, he generally interprets it as coming from outside. So this explains why an inspiration, or transcendental knowledge, may be the same in different countries, but in one country it will seem to come through an angel, and in another through a Deva, and in a third through God. What does it mean? It means that the mind brought the knowledge by its own nature, and that the finding of the knowledge was interpreted according to the belief and education of the person through whom it came. The real fact is that these various men, as it were, stumbled upon this superconscious state.

The Yogi says there is a great danger in stumbling upon this state. In a good many cases there is the danger of the brain being deranged, and , as a rule, you will find that all those men, however great they were, who had stumbled upon this superconscious state, without understanding it, groped in the dark, and generally had, along with their knowledge, some quaint superstition. They opened themselves to hallucinations. Mohammed claimed that the Angel Gabriel came to him in a cave one day and took him on the heavenly horse, Harak, and he visited the heavens. But with all that , Mohammed spoke some wonderful truths. If you read the Koran, you find the most wonderful truths mixed with superstitions. How will you explain it? That man was inspired, no doubt, but that inspiration was, as it were, stumbled upon. He was not a trained Yogi, and did not know the reason of what he was doing. Think of the good Mohammed did to the world, and think of the great evil that has been done through his fanaticism! Think of the millions massacred through his teachings, mothers bereft of their children, children made orphans, whole countries destroyed, millions upon millions of people killed!

So we see this danger by studying the lives of great teachers like Mohammed and others. Yet we find, at the same time , that they were all inspired. Whenever a prophet got into the superconscious state by heightening his emotional nature, he brought away from it not only some truths, but some fanaticism also, some superstition which injured the world as much as the greatness of the teaching helped. To get any reason out of the mass of incongruity we call human life, we have to transcend our reason, but we must do it scientifically , slowly, by regular practice, and we must cast off all superstition .We must take up the study of the superconscious state just as any other science. On reason we must have to lay our foundation, we must follow reason as far as it leads, and when reason fails, reason itself will show us the way to the highest plane. When you hear a man say, “I am inspired” , and then talk irrationally, reject it. Why? Because these three states-instinct, reason, and superconsciousness , or the unconscious, conscious, and superconscious states-belong to one and the same mind. There are not three minds in one man, but one state of it develops into the others. Instinct develops into reason, and reason into the transcendental consciousness; therefore, not one of the states contradicts the others. Real inspiration never contradicts reason, but fulfils it. Just as you find the great prophets saying, “ I come not to destroy but to fulfil” , so inspiration always comes to fulfil reason, and is in harmony with it."

yudhamanyu
11 March 2007, 10:37 AM
Here is an another excerpt from Swami Vivekananda's 'Raja Yoga' dealing with the subject of superconsciousness or enlightenment.

"When I eat food, I do it consciously; when I assimilate it, I do it unconsciously. When the food is manufactured into blood, it is done unconsciously.When out of the blood all the different parts of my body are strengthened , it is done unconsciously. And yet it is I who am doing all this; there cannot be twenty people in this one body. How do I know that I do it, and nobody else?It may be urged that my business is only in eating and assimilating the food, and that strengthening the body by the food is done for me by somebody else. That cannot be, because it can be demonstrated that almost every action of which we are now unconscious can be brought up to the plane of consciousness. The heart is beating apparently without our control. None of us here can control the heart; it goes on its own way. But by practice men can bring even the heart under control, until it will beat at will, slowly, or quickly, or almost stop. Nearly every part of the body can be brought under control. What does this show? That the functions which are beneath consciousness are also performed by us, only we are doing it unconsciously.

We have, then,two planes in which the human mind works. First is the conscious plane , in which all work is always accompanied with the feeling of egoism. Next comes the unconscious plane, where all work is unaccompanied by the feeling of egoism. That part of mind-work which is unaccompanied with the feeling of egoism is unconscious work, and that part which is accompanied with the feeling of egoism is conscious work. In the lower animals this unconscious work is called instinct. In higher animals, and in the highest of all animals, man, what is called conscious work prevails.

But it does not end here. There is a still higher plane upon which the mind can work. It can go beyond consciousness. Just as, unconscious work is beneath consciousnes, so there is another work which is above consciousness and which also is not accompanied with the feeling of egoism. The feeling of egoism is only on the middle plane. When the mind is above or below that plane, there is no feeling of "I", and yet the mind works. When the mind goes beyond this line of self-consciousness, it is called Samadhi, or superconsciousness. How , for instance, do we know that a man in Samadhi has not gone below consciousness, has not degenerated instead of going higher?In both cases the works are unaccompanied with egoism. The answer is, by the effects, by the results of the work, we know that which is below, and that which is above. When a man goes into deep sleep, he enters a plane beneath consciousness. He works the body all the time, he breathes , he moves the body, perhaps , in his sleep, without any unaccompanying feeling of ego; he is unconscious, and when he returns from his sleep, he is the same man who went into it. The sum total of the knowledge which he had before he went into the sleep remains the same; it does not increase at all. No enlightenment comes. But when a man goes into Samadhi, if he goes into it a fool, he comes out a sage.

What makes the difference? From one state a man comes out the very same man that he went in , and from another state the man comes out enlightened, a sage, a prophet, a saint, his whole character changed, his life changed, illumined. These are the two effects. Now the effects being different, the causes must be different. As this illumination with which a man comes back from Samadhi is much higher than can be got by reasoning in a conscious state, it must , therefore, be superconsciousness, and Samadhi is called the superconscious state."

yudhamanyu
11 March 2007, 10:37 AM
These prophets were not unique; they were men as you or I. They were great Yogis. They had gained this superconsciousness, and you and I can get the same. They were not peculiar people. The very fact that one man ever reached that state proves that it is possible for every man to do so. Not only is it possible, but every man must, eventually, get to that state, and that is religion.

--Swami Vivekananda

yudhamanyu
11 March 2007, 10:40 AM
Here are a few verses from the Quran that deals with terror.



1. (Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."


2. (Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."


3. (Koran 69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

4. (Koran 69:30-37) "(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat."





5. (Koran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."





6. (Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."





7. (Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."



8. So when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters, wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush…. (Koran 9:5)

The only punishment of those that wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that they should be murdered, or crucified, or their hands and their feet should be cut-off on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned…. (Koran 5:33)

9."Let not the believers take the disbelievers for friends rather than believers. And whoever does this has no connection with Allah unless it is done to guard (Takeyya) yourselves against them, guarding carefully. And Allah cautions you against His retribution. And to Allah is the eventual coming." (Koran 3:27)

10.Sura 47:4-6,15 "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight), smite them at their necks.At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them).


11.Sura 61:4,11-13 "Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure ... that ye believe in God and His Apostle, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the cause of God, with your property and your persons. That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in gardens of eternity. That is indeed the supreme achievement. And another (favour will He bestow), which ye do love - help from God and a speedy victory. So give the glad tidings to the believers."

12.Sura 9:29-31 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

13.Sura 5:54 "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

yudhamanyu
11 March 2007, 10:41 AM
By my earlier posts , I am not preaching hatred against any religion. However fundamentalism, dogmatism and fanaticism in all its forms anywhere ought to be despised and eradicated . And I hope my posts will help to achieve that .

In this context , I wish to quote this teaching of Buddha...

Believe nothing, merely because you have been told it, or because it is traditional or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for your teacher. But whatever after due consideration and analysis you find to be conducive to the good , the benefit, the welfare of all beings, that doctrine , believe and cling to and take it as your guide.
- Buddha

sm78
12 March 2007, 03:43 AM
If you read the Koran, you find the most wonderful truths mixed with superstitions. How will you explain it?
If you read the quoran again more carefully and in the correct historical contexts of muhammada's life and the time when the particular Ayats came out of his mouth, it is not very difficult to explain.

yudhamanyu
12 March 2007, 06:54 AM
If you read the quoran again more carefully and in the correct historical contexts of muhammada's life and the time when the particular Ayats came out of his mouth, it is not very difficult to explain.


1. (Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them


Hi Sm78 . Do you seriously believe that a benevolent God would exhort his followers to sadistically torture the enemy(chop all their finger tips of them), considering the fact that the enemy is also God's children as well, and no matter which period of history it may be.


5. (Koran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land.


Same as above.

The only punishment of those that wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that they should be murdered, or crucified, or their hands and their feet should be cut-off on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned…. (Koran 5:33)


Again , same as above.




12.Sura 9:29-31 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


All human beings are the children of God and every religion is a valid path to him. And just for disbelieving in the quran or what Muhammad said, does this warrant a war against these so-called unbelievers, to subdue and humiliate them and make them pay the jizya tax just for being a non-muslim. That would be a total negation of individuality and freedom of thought. It is also highly reactive and not at all proactive.

13.Sura 5:54 "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."


You can be a devout muslim, and at the same time take Jews and Christians as your friends in the name of humanism and universal brotherhood. Would any benevolent God condemn this?


Also Muhammad proclaims that he is the last prophet of God or Allah.

The world certainly had many prophets after him in the form of Guru Nanak, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and others.

Even in the Abrahamic context, we have Bahaullah, who is clearly a prophet, and the founder of the Bahai faith , and who proclaimed the unity of all religions as his message. For this acknowledgement of himself as a prophet of God, he and his followers were severely persecuted , and subjected to highly barbaric violence and humiliation.

Still the Bahai faith survived, and I can guarantee you that all the Bahai's I have met have great spirituality , nobility and purity and reverence for all religions.

This itself shows that Bahaullah is a great prophet and Muhammads account of himself being the last prophet of God is not correct.

yudhamanyu
12 March 2007, 07:51 AM
Here are articles and websites on Bahaullah, and the PERSECUTION OF BAHAIS.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahá'u'lláh




en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bahá'ís

sm78
12 March 2007, 08:20 AM
I was simply saying that even the assumption that Muhammad had "some" divine inspiration is not a correct understanding of Islam and his movement.

I believe Islam has as much to do with God as Fascism or Commuinism.

You oviously got me wrong ;)

yudhamanyu
12 March 2007, 11:32 AM
Hi Sm78, you were not clear in your first post. Thats why I think I got you wrong. You were more clear in your second post.

yudhamanyu
05 August 2007, 08:33 AM
PERSECUTION OF THE ZOROASTRIANS BY ISLAMIC TERRORISTS


In the 7th century A.D. , Persia was invaded by islamic terrorists, who destroyed the zoroastrian temples and engaged in oppression and slaughter and destroyed the zoroastrian nation.

Many zoroastrians, escaping islamic terrorism and persecution, fled to India where they were given refuge by the hindus and allowed to practice their religion and culture in full freedom. Hence we have a thriving Zoroastrian population in India with their own temples , heritage , culture and religion intact.
Thanks to India, Zoroastrian culture and heritage was not lost to the world or mankind.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecu...f_Zoroastrians

satay
05 August 2007, 11:45 AM
namaskar,
What's the purpose of recycling this information on HDF?

Would you like to add your comments to this info that exits elsewhere on the net and easily accessible to anyone looking for it?

yajvan
05 August 2007, 01:48 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namasate yudhamanyu, I for one would like to know the the real cause of Islamic terrorism ... I did not see this in your post. If you possess this knowledge I would be be interested.


thank you,

Znanna
05 August 2007, 05:44 PM
Namaste,

This isn't a PC topic, no matter how one responds, so ... :D

IMO, the radical Islamic movement (and, equally, the opposing radical Christian evangelicals) is reaction to the HUGE imbalances which have developed over the ages between the white-skinned and the brown-skinned folks.

Things have a way of rebalancing themselves, some are less pleasant than others. However, pushing back only serves to increase the resistance. Furthering the imbalance can't begin to resolve the issue.

That said, I was at Ground Zero on 9/11, so please don't think that I'm some sort of ninny who doesn't *get* that terrorism is real, and a threat. I just don't perceive it (or anything) as a justification for hate.



ZN
/YMMV

yajvan
05 August 2007, 08:01 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

This isn't a PC topic, no matter how one responds, so ... :D

IMO, the radical Islamic movement (and, equally, the opposing radical Christian evangelicals) is reaction to the HUGE imbalances which have developed over the ages between the white-skinned and the brown-skinned folks.

Things have a way of rebalancing themselves, some are less pleasant than others. However, pushing back only serves to increase the resistance. Furthering the imbalance can't begin to resolve the issue.

That said, I was at Ground Zero on 9/11, so please don't think that I'm some sort of ninny who doesn't *get* that terrorism is real, and a threat. I just don't perceive it (or anything) as a justification for hate.
ZN /YMMV

Namaskar ZN,
this may be so, yet how does one explain the level of terror and killing between Sunni and Shei ; or the terrorist that are holding others? They are Muslim's correct? Yet maybe not MY ( meaning the individual groups in question here) Muslim?

If some one said here are my 3 grief points what would they be?

As I understand it ONE of the points was after Mohammad past on, it was who is next in line. One group wanted a family member , another wanted one close to Mohammad , yet not of his blood. That started to Sunni-Shei grief as I have been told ( by the news).
Maybe this is point 1.

What is point 2?
Is it a Crusades issue? being wronged a zillion years ago? and this is still high on the list?

And Point 3? ( I have no clue).
Maybe a maybe - its our way or the highway. We want our way of living to be the standard, no other way is acceptable.

Just some ideas.

Znanna
05 August 2007, 08:10 PM
Namaste, yajvan,

I didn't really reflect on that aspect - another example would be the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland.

It all could be a broader "them" against "us" mentality, the haves versus the have-nots or wanna-haves. Or, perhaps it is a "my way or the highway" thingy as you also mention.

I'm fairly sure, though, that pushing back only increases the divisiveness rather than solving anything. To me this is the height of perversity of most orthodox religions.

ZN

Yaruki
06 August 2007, 04:09 AM
namaskar,
What's the purpose of recycling this information on HDF?

Would you like to add your comments to this info that exits elsewhere on the net and easily accessible to anyone looking for it?

He posted it out of frustration and anger. I know because ive done the same before. (venting)

I wish I had an answer to all the suffering and pain but all I can do is walk my own path.

Yogkriya
07 August 2007, 09:30 AM
Very Nice posts Yudhamanyu! :)

yudhamanyu
22 September 2007, 05:28 AM
namaskar,
What's the purpose of recycling this information on HDF?


It is for bringing this knowledge on raja yoga as taught by Swami Vivekananda to everyone.




Would you like to add your comments to this info that exits elsewhere on the net and easily accessible to anyone looking for it?

I have added my own comments as well. The previous post on the zoroastrians are all my thoughts based on facts.

yudhamanyu
22 September 2007, 05:33 AM
He posted it out of frustration and anger. I know because ive done the same before. (venting) .



I posted the material as I would like everyone to know Swamijis thoughts.

And yeah, I am a bit pissed off by the numerous suicide bombings and bomb blasts , the latest one being in hyderabad, which killed a lot of innocent women and children who were preparing for the Ganesha chaturthi celebrations.

yudhamanyu
22 September 2007, 05:38 AM
Very Nice posts Yudhamanyu! :)


Thanks pal.

Hiwaunis
27 September 2007, 10:03 AM
Om Shanti,
I found this post to be informing and very, very, very frightening! I was about to start my day knowing that I had some business to do with the local corner store owner who is from Pakistan. Not knowing what his beliefs are (and after reading this post) I think I'll just stay at home.

I can not even express the fear that I am feeling now! Does anyone know of a mantra that I can chant to get this horrible feeling out of my abdomen area?

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

yudhamanyu
29 September 2007, 06:37 AM
Om Shanti,
I found this post to be informing and very, very, very frightening! I was about to start my day knowing that I had some business to do with the local corner store owner who is from Pakistan. Not knowing what his beliefs are (and after reading this post) I think I'll just stay at home.

I can not even express the fear that I am feeling now! Does anyone know of a mantra that I can chant to get this horrible feeling out of my abdomen area?

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

Dude, cowardice has been emphasized many times in Hinduism to be a great sin.


Be a hero. Always say, “I have no fear.” Tell this to everyone—“Have no fear.”

--- Swami Vivekananda

Fear is death, fear is sin, fear is hell, fear is unrighteousness, fear is wrong life. All the negative thoughts and ideas that are in the world have proceeded from this evil spirit of fear.

--- Swami Vivekananda

“Face the brutes.” That is a lesson for all life—face the terrible, face it boldly. Like the monkeys, the hardships of life fall back when we cease to flee before them.

--- Swami Vivekananda

Soft-brained people, weak-minded, chicken-hearted, cannot find the truth. One has to be free, and as broad as the sky.

--- Swami Vivekananda

The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you free.

--- Swami Vivekananda


This I have seen in life—those who are overcautious about themselves fall into dangers at every step; those who are afraid of losing honor and respect, get only disgrace; and those who are always afraid of loss, always lose.

--- Swami Vivekananda

Stand up, be bold, be strong. Take the whole responsibility on your own shoulders, and know that you are the creator of your own destiny. All the strength and succor you want is within yourself. Therefore make your own future.

--- Swami Vivekananda

Don't look back—forward, infinite energy, infinite enthusiasm, infinite daring, and infinite patience—then alone can great deeds be accomplished.

--- Swami Vivekananda

yajvan
29 September 2007, 09:14 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Om Shanti,
I can not even express the fear that I am feeling now! Does anyone know of a mantra that I can chant to get this horrible feeling out of my abdomen area?



Namste H,

two mantras... that of Triumbakam , and Savitur/Gayatri.
Both are there for your support.

Mahamrityunjaya Mantra
ॐ त्र्यम्बकं यजामहे
सुगन्धिं पुष्टिवर्धनम् उर्वारुकमिव
बन्धनान्मृत्योर्मुक्षीय मामृतात्
Om tryambakaṃ yajāmahe
sugandhiṃ puṣṭivardhanam
urvārukamiva bandhanān
mṛtyor mukṣīya māmṛtāt


Gayatri from the Rig Ved 3.62.10
ॐ तत् सवितुर्वरेण्यं ।
भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि ।
धियो यो नः प्रचोदयात् ॥
Om tát savitúr váreṇyaṃ
bhárgo devásya dhīmahi
dhíyo yó naḥ prachodáyāt


Now before someone says where is the following:
oṃ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ ॐ भूर्भुवस्वः This is not how the Gayatri is initally offered in the Rig Ved by Vishwamitra ; Its advised to start without this , until one is formally inititiated, and the pandit , guru or swami may add this to the front of the mantra.


These mantras are considered pra-siddha - they can be applied by those irrespective of given by a guru ( yet if one has the opporunity of diksha , then the more auspicious).

pranams,

Eastern Mind
29 September 2007, 10:52 AM
Aum Ganesha. Very interesting posts. I think the Koran is the least likely of all scriptures to be able to seen as symbolic. All scriptures can be read literally, or symbolically. The Islamic world could sure take a lesson from the Ammadhiya movement within it. (The extremists don't consider it Islam, as the Christian fundamentalists have cast off Catholicism.) I used to shop at an Ammadhiyan's store. He always asked, "Is this for temple?" as i would purchase supplies for our local temple there. If I said 'Yes" he always gave me a discount. Nice man. But what we need most is solutions, not rhetoric focussing on past wrongs etc. I'm not inside radical Islam, so its hard to relate. Best I can do is relate from the tensions in Sri Lanka, that also has religious overtones, centuries of begrudging etc. Now is now. Thank God some of us get it. Aum Namashivaya

Hiwaunis
30 September 2007, 03:08 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~



Namste H,

two mantras... that of Triumbakam , and Savitur/Gayatri.
Both are there for your support.

Mahamrityunjaya Mantra
ॐ त्र्यम्बकं यजामहे
सुगन्धिं पुष्टिवर्धनम् उर्वारुकमिव
बन्धनान्मृत्योर्मुक्षीय मामृतात्
Om tryambakaṃ yajāmahe
sugandhiṃ puṣṭivardhanam
urvārukamiva bandhanān
mṛtyor mukṣīya māmṛtāt


Gayatri from the Rig Ved 3.62.10
ॐ तत् सवितुर्वरेण्यं ।
भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि ।
धियो यो नः प्रचोदयात् ॥
Om tát savitúr váreṇyaṃ
bhárgo devásya dhīmahi
dhíyo yó naḥ prachodáyāt


Now before someone says where is the following:
oṃ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ ॐ भूर्भुवस्वः This is not how the Gayatri is initally offered in the Rig Ved by Vishwamitra ; Its advised to start without this , until one is formally inititiated, and the pandit , guru or swami may add this to the front of the mantra.


These mantras are considered pra-siddha - they can be applied by those irrespective of given by a guru ( yet if one as the opporunity of diksha , then the more auspicious).

pranams,

Om Shanti Yajvan,

Thank you very much for the mantras. I am familiar with the Gayatri. As a matter of fact this is what I thought of after I made the post. I am not familiar with the Mahamrityungaya mantra. What is the meaning of it?

Yudhamanyu namaste,
Thank you very much for your response. I have decided to print your post and read it frequently.

I don't think that I was ever in any danger. I believe that just reading those words hit me in the gut. I was shocked that any religion could litterally read that way. I went to the corner store and talked to the guy that was working there. He was neutral (not mean, not friendly, as if he had very little energy). On a positive note he did help me.

Thank you all for your responses.
Om Shanti, Shanti,
Hiwaunis

Agnideva
30 September 2007, 05:43 PM
Namaste Hiwaunis,


I am familiar with the Gayatri. As a matter of fact this is what I thought of after I made the post. I am not familiar with the Mahamrityungaya mantra. What is the meaning of it?

The Gayatri and the Mahamrityunjaya are the two great Mantras that come to us directly from the Rigveda and are later repeated in the Yajurveda. Mahamrityunjaya means "Great Conquerer of Death", and in Saivism, this mantra is sometimes called Siva Gayatri. You may wish to check these two threads to learn about the Mahamrityunjaya mantra:

Mrityunjaya Mantra (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1060)
An exposition on the Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=845)

Aum Namah Shivaya.
A.

SHIVAJI
08 October 2007, 11:26 AM
Interesting thread, indeed.

yudhamanyu
11 October 2007, 12:48 AM
Here are some quotations on intuition. ( the superconscious state )




There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.


The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.


The only real valuable thing is intuition.


The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men.


The intellect has little to do on the road to discovery. There comes a leap in consciousness, call it intuition or what you will, and the solution comes to you and you don't know how or why.




No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.

~ Albert Einstein
20th century physicist, creator of the theory of relativity.

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All human knowledge thus begins with intuitions, proceeds thence to concepts, and ends with ideas.

Immanuel Kant

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Inspiration may be a form of super-consciousness, or perhaps of subconsciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure it is the antithesis of self-consciousness.”


Aaron Copland( american composer)

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“I decided that it was not wisdom that enabled [poets] to write their poetry, but a kind of instinct or inspiration, such as you find in seers and prophets who deliver all their sublime messages without knowing in the least what they mean.”
Socrates

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This, therefore, is a law not found in books, but written on the fleshly tablets of the heart, which we have not learned from man, received or read, but which we have caught up from Nature herself, sucked in and imbibed; the knowledge of which we were not taught, but for which we were made; we received it not by education, but by intuition.

No one was ever great without some portion of divine inspiration”
Marcus Tullius Cicero

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The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within.

Mahatma Gandhi

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Intuition is a spiritual faculty and does not explain, but simply points the way. ~Florence Scovel Shinn


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“Knowledge has three degrees—opinion, science, illumination. The means or instrument of the first is sense; of the second, dialectic; of the third, intuition.”

~ Plotinus
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Fill your paper with the breathings of your heart.
William Wordsworth


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INTUITION is the clear concept of the whole at once.

Johann Kaspar Lavater

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A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent upon arriving. A good artist lets his INTUITION lead him wherever it wants.


The power of intuitive understanding will protect you from harm until the end of your days.

Lao-Tzu (Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Taoism, Author of the ''Tao Te Ching'')

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All great men are gifted with INTUITION. They know without reasoning or analysis, what they need to know.


Alexis Carrel (1873-1944, French Biologist )


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It is through science that we prove, but through intuition that we discover.

Jules Henri Poincare


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Moral education, as I understand it, is not about inculcating obedience to law or cultivating self-virtue, it is rather about finding within us an ever-increasing sense of the worth of creation. It is about how we can develop and deepen our intuitive sense of beauty and creativity.

Andrew Linzey (1952 - )

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Proverbs are the sanctuary of the intuitions.


The primary wisdom is intuition.


Ralph waldo Emerson
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There are two types of mind . . . the mathematical, and what might be called the intuitive. The former arrives at its views slowly, but they are firm and rigid; the latter is endowed with greater flexibility and applies itself simultaneously to the diverse lovable parts of that which it loves.

Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662)

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The boy was beginning to understand that intuition is really a sudden immersion of the soul into the universal current of life, where the histories of all people are connected, and we able to know everything, because it's all written there.


Paulo Coelho
Source: The Alchemist

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As with truth of religion, so with the highest and deepest truth of beauty, the intellectual reason cannot seize its inner sense and reality, not even the inner truth of the apparent principles and processes, unless it is aided by a higher insight not its own. As it cannot give a method, process or rule by which beauty can or ought to be created, so also it cannot give to the appreciation of beauty that deeper insight which it needs; it can only help to remove the dullness and vagueness of the habitual perceptions and conceptions of the lower mind which prevent it from seeing beauty or which give it false and crude aesthetic habits: it does this by giving to the mind an external idea and rule of the elements of the thing it has to perceive and appreciate. What is farther needed is the awakening of a certain vision, an insight and an intuitive response in the soul. Reason which studies always from outside, cannot give this inner and more intimate contact; it has to aid itself by a more direct insight springing from the soul itself and to call at every step on the intuitive mind to fill up the gap of its own deficiencies.

Sri Aurobindo, Social & Political Thought, pp. 132-3
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A working hypothesis is that the Self is at the core of the superconscious, just as the 'I' or personal self is at the core of the personality and its various functions (physical, emotional and mental). Interaction between the Self and the 'I' can occur or flow in either direction. When the contents of the superconscious descend into our conscious experience, we receive inspiration, intuition, insight or peak experiences. These moments happen to us, particularly when we least expect them or have not been actively seeking them. However, the flow may also occur in the other direction, through elevating our personality, through consciously aspiring, in a realistic, grounded and purposeful way, towards the heights or depths of our being.

Diana Whitmore, Psychosynthesis in Education, pp. 174-175


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Intuition is the art, peculiar to the human mind, of working out the correct answer from data that is, in itself, incomplete or even, perhaps, misleading.

Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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Intuition does not denote something contrary to reason, but something outside the province of reason.’

— Carl Gustav Jung

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I’m saying that we should trust our intuition. I believe that the principles of universal evolution are revealed to us through intuition. And I think that if we combine our intuition and our reason, we can respond in an evolutionary sound way to our problems.’

— Jonas Salk
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The fact that modern physics, the manifestation of an extreme specialisation of the rational mind, is now making contact with mysticism, the essence of religion and manifestation of an extreme specialisation of the intuitive mind, shows very beautifully the unity and complementary nature of the rational and intuitive modes of consciousness; of the yang and the yin.”

Fritjof Capra

devotee
28 December 2007, 05:59 AM
Here are articles and websites on Bahaullah, and the PERSECUTION OF BAHAIS.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bahá'ís

Thanks for the informative link, yudhamanyu ! :)

sarabhanga
29 December 2007, 12:56 AM
Triumbakam and Savitur/Gayatri are considered pra-siddha ~ they can be applied by anyone, irrespective of being given by a guru.

Namaste Yajvan,

prasiddha means “well known” and, despite the fact that the tryambakam and the gAyatrI mantra are highly celebrated and widely known today, the vaidika tradition is that ALL vaidika mantra requires dIkshA. And the shaiva purANam agrees that all mantra requires dIkshA to be effective.

Can you suggest ANY scripture stating that either the tryambakam or the gAyatrI should be repeated without dIkshA ??
If there is any such dispensation, it could only be found in the vaiSNava purANam! ;)

yajvan
29 December 2007, 08:24 AM
Namaste Yajvan,

prasiddha means “well known” and, despite the fact that the tryambakam and the gAyatrI mantra are highly celebrated and widely known today, the vaidika tradition is that ALL vaidika mantra requires dIkshA. And the shaiva purANam agrees that all mantra requires dIkshA to be effective.


Namaste sarabhanga,

And as I mentioned in my post...

"the Gayatri is initally offered in the Rig Ved by Vishwamitra ; Its advised to start without this , until one is formally inititiated, and the pandit , guru or swami may add this to the front of the mantra.

These mantras are considered pra-siddha - they can be applied by those irrespective of given by a guru ( yet if one has the opporunity of diksha , then the more auspicious)."

I pass on the knoweldge from my jyotish guru and consider it valid¹... He too suggests and encourages diksha when ever possible i.e. Gurupadesatoh mantra administration.

pranams,

1. That said, I keep my eyes open for any add'l info on the administration of mantra;
1A. Ekalavya, the unsung warrior of the Mahabharata did not receive mantra directly from guru Dronacharaya yet became proficient.
1B. It is also suggested ( by my Jyotish guru) when a guru is not available,i.e. cannnot be found, then recognition and due worship to Veda Vyasa is in order.

Taipan
15 April 2008, 09:40 AM
Bravo...,wonderfully brave and intelligent posts.
The Messiah Complex has tripped up many.
Myself included at times when the three poisons of ignorance,attachment and aggression have clouded my judgement with self congratulation and aggrandisement. Buddha had the good fortune of having studied yoga and therefore his science/religion is closer to the truth in my opinion.
The truth does scare people in this dark age, hence the antagonism Buddhists are facing at present. Sound familiar?