The Demoniac:

[Zardozi]

"the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have No intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world":
Gita illustration:
http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/24.html

How about those that are lost in themselves who Have "intelligence" that engage in Beneficial works that mean to recreate the world by destroying it calling it Jihad or Armageddon?

Are their alternatives subtitles to these gita in Pictures?


Maste Nam,
Zardozi

[Kaos]

"the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have No intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world":
Gita illustration:
http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/24.html

How about those that are lost in themselves who Have "intelligence" that engage in Beneficial works that mean to recreate the world by destroying it calling it Jihad or Armageddon?




Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego--all together these eight comprise My separated material energies.
- Bhagavad Gita (7-4)


Yes, those lost in themselves who have "intelligence" in the context of engaging in Jihad or Armageddon are deluded, attracted to the separated material energy of the Lord. Those who are deluded become entangled in their own actions and reactions.

Hare Krsna!

[sm78]

"the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have No intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world":
Gita illustration:
http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/24.html

How about those that are lost in themselves who Have "intelligence" that engage in Beneficial works that mean to recreate the world by destroying it calling it Jihad or Armageddon?

Are their alternatives subtitles to these gita in Pictures?


Maste Nam,
Zardozi

"intelligence"=No intelligence
The title is thus 'The Demoniac'.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste ,

This conversation is of great import, and perhaps we can consider a parallel conversation I will mention at the end of this post.

That said, we have known these types of people throughout time ( at least in Kali yug). It is unfortunate that these people ( Hitler, Stalin, Paul Pott, Idi Amin, etc. etc.) bring major grief and unhappiness to the family of man. What is it about them that motivates? What is missing in them that causes this negative behavior? This I ponder but know that the light of life in them is extinguished - that is, that of the Divine. Would one kill and bring misery to others if they knew that others are really an extension of their own SELFs? This is the Maha-avidya, the prime ignorance that brings unhappiness to society.

And what do the wise say? I look to Vasistha's wisdom given to Sri Ram:

" he who fights a battle which is in accord with scriptural injunctions on behalf of a righteous king of unblemished conduct, whether he dies or lives, is a hero. Yet he who fights for an unrighteous monarch, who tortures people and mutilates their bodies, even if he dies fighting in battle he is a beast or criminal and goes to hell. He who fights for a king that delights in harassing others (whether a king or not) they too go to hell. Yet the one who fights to protect the cattle, holymen, friends, or those that have taken his asylum, he is an ornament of heaven."

Now all that is said by your posts, and this post... what of us? What is our inherent nature ? We know that we are essentially divine beings, yet why is society's behaviors of lesser merit? We are essentially good people yet why is this not a primary trait in every day life we see?

It's my opinion as I watch and study the human condition that this 'divine in us' needs to be kindled. As if we were a flower that grows wild, sprawled all over with no specific dimension to it, until the gardener gives it a direction, a 'grooming' , a trellis to grow on to. Like that, we are divine in 'seed form' and that seed can become a big healthy oak tree with proper care and feeding. To me, that care and feeding is that of pure consciousness, of this restful alertness we have discussed on occasion.

Unless we groom this consciousness to unfold divinely, it is tossed in the wind, hear and there, like a boat with no rudder in the sea. Life happens to us; the Graha's influnce us, the 3 guna's are at play with our nature, past vasana's ( impressions from the past) all manifest within and without us.


As we have referred to the Bhagavad gita here in the original post, we can look to it for guidence... If we consider Kesava's instruction back in Chapt 2.50 ( as you folks have brought up intelligence, which is rooted in intellect) Krsna says to Arjuna - He whose intellect is united (wth the Self) casts off both good and evil even here ( on earth); Therefore devote yourself to Yoga. Yoga is skill in action.


This one sentence is enough to solve the problems of the world , if it were applied. By doing such - we then would naturally be able to leave the 3 guna's behind, per Krsna's guidence , found in Chapt 2.43 - ' freed from duality, ever firm in purity' - that is outside the tossing and turning of this relative field of life, of the influence of the graha's ( planets)... but how? by 'being without the 3 guna's' ( same verse 43). But what purity is Krsna suggesting? Not of washing our face and hands! It is the purity of consciousness, of the pure awareness that is lived 7x24x365 when one is without the 3 guna's.

This is the wisdom of the gita - if we as a society were able to practice only one verse, or one chapter of the gita (Chapt 2), we would be well on our way to a great society.


pranams,

[Kaos]

Without wisdom, intelligence, worldly knowledge can all too easily turn destructive.



Taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige and being thus illusioned, the demoniac are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.
- Bhagavad Gita (16-10)

[Znanna]

The notion that "the Demoniac" is other is what's the problem, in my opinion.

There's no difference between this and that, there just is.

YMMV



ZN

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

There's no difference between this and that, there just is.ZN

Namaste ZN,
these are wise words echoed by many a saint, yet is it with their unbounded view of the world that they see this ultimate truth.

The great Brahmarshi Gaudapada tells us the truth from his level of enlightement:
The supreme truth is this: there is no birth and no dissolution, no aspirant to liberation and no liberated, and no one who is in slavery
(Mandukyakarika, II, 32).

Now, for me, there is no reason for me to doubt this wisdom, yet I do not live it. This is from a rishi that is completely absorbed and living in turiya, a most blessed state. But to the house-holder, the sadhu that is yet to know this from the personal-experiential level , this is still the wisdom of the rishi's, all good (sattvic) and wonderful, yet not realized.

This is why it has been a joy to talk to Manuel ( from the post 'A profound experience of That' ). A 'regular guy' that is experiencing this Brahman and put his experience in simple context.

I am happy for you if you are experiencing the truth of 'It'... this is wonderful - please provide your experieces for us. Help us compare and contrast This from That.


So, as we talk of the practical side of life and its application of spiritual concepts , the Gita is there to assist - the cream of the Veda's as it is called. And in the final analysis , as you have stated there is really no duality, no demonic or divine, there is the Fullness of Brahman. All there for us to reach, understand and experience... along the way, I am in hopes we all can enjoy the ride. Thanks again for your great post.



pranams,

[willie]

So this is the discussion. Well better take a look at these dictators and perhaps that will shed some light on them .

Hitler was an elected polotician, he came to power because germany was being bled white to pay for the first world war. Inflation was so bad that you had to have a wheelbarrow full of marks to buy a loaf of bread. So hitler ran on a platform of making germany a great nation again. And what he did was rebuild the army and that put a dent in unemployment and put a lot of people to work but when that ran out he went onto taking over other countries. Mainly because when he took over the first small country no one did anything.

Stalin ran russia with and iron fist and was in league with hitler,but hitler turned on him. The germans were able to take so much of russia becasuse stalin had kill off most of the officer corp of the russian army and the germans trained with the russian army in the buddy time.

Pauo pot wanted to establish a new community so he abandoned the major cities and marched people out into the jungle to build a new civilization. Well he must not have been to smart or he would have realized that the buildings of the old city did not make people bad, they were bad to begin with. Later when he realized this he killed people by the thousands. And he died a free man in the end.

Edi amin was a sociopath who killed his way to power in africia. He used to take his chosen cabinet members to his freezer and show then the heads of those who had crossed them. A pretty effective way of keeping them in line.

The important thing is that all had their detractors and the dectractors fougth back. Eventually these schemes collapsed into the dust of history.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

So this is the discussion. Well better take a look at these dictators and perhaps that will shed some light on them .

Eventually these schemes collapsed into the dust of history.

Hello willie,
points well made... you are correct that 'eventually' their schemes collasped. Of this , there is no doubt. The pickle is the amount of death and grief they have brought to the family of man. And for Hilter and his men, it was made of sport. Of what constuctive use they brought I cannot see.

Hilter is the poster child for evil incarnate & Innorance Incorporated. He made the others look like Mary Popins.

Again from a spiritual perspective, these behaviors [ of tyrants and despots ] are driven by ignorance, myopic vision of reality and a bent-to-twisted ego. They could have been smart, but its the cunning-smart of a wolf looking for prey.

I hope we have seen the last of them, yet kali yuga is just gett'n warmed up.

[sm78]

There's no difference between this and that, there just is.

When there is no difference, there is no problem and no demon.
When there is a problem, there is difference and there is a obvious demon.

Only key is none are permanent either this difference and most of these experiences of unity.

[saidevo]

Reincarnations are supposed to mellow the manifestations of a soul. I wonder what these people Hitler, Stalin and Edi Amin would have been in their earlier incarnations with all their cruelty and sadism! How many more births would they acquire even to get to the state of a normal man?

[sm78]

Reincarnations are supposed to mellow the manifestations of a soul. I wonder what these people Hitler, Stalin and Edi Amin would have been in their earlier incarnations with all their cruelty and sadism! How many more births would they acquire even to get to the state of a normal man?

They were advanced souls in the path of egoism. There su-karma must exceed a normal man by many many times. Killing and getting away with it is not so easy.

Unless one has attained saivam and crossed the barrier of Ego, which I suspect most of us don't yet understand, a good soul may also turn to asura. Hence astikya or true faith is god is necessary.

[Kaos]

Unless one has attained saivam and crossed the barrier of Ego, which I suspect most of us don't yet understand, a good soul may also turn to asura. Hence astikya or true faith is god is necessary.



Yes, until then, the Bhagavad Gita is there to guide us.




Though the house-lamps have been lit,
The blind live on in the dark.
Though spontaneity is all-encompassing and close,
To the deluded it remains always far away.

Bees that know in flowers
Honey can be found.
That Samsara and Nirvana are not two
How will the deluded ever understand?

There's nothing to be negated, nothing to be
Affirmed or grasped; for It can never be conceived
By the fragmentation of the intellect are the deluded
Fettered; undivided and pure remains spontaneity.

- Sarahapada

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

When there is no difference, there is no problem and no demon.
When there is a problem, there is difference and there is a obvious demon.


Namaste sm78 (et.al)
The Upanishads assist here: Dvitiyad vai bhayam bhavati - Certainly fear is born of duality.

That is , whenever and whereever there is a sense of two, fear or suffering has the opportunity to exist.

'Difference' only exists when there is more then one... as the individual evolves from 'indivisual' to Brahman, then duality is no more, no difference can exist. Until that time one needs to manage one's behavior.

pranams,

[sm78]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste sm78 (et.al)
The Upanishads assist here: Dvitiyad vai bhayam bhavati - Certainly fear is born of duality.

That is , whenever and whereever there is a sense of two, fear or suffering has the opportunity to exist.

'Difference' only exists when there is more then one... as the individual evolves from 'indivisual' to Brahman, then duality is no more, no difference can exist. Until that time one needs to manage one's behavior.

pranams,

Indeed.

Only other thing I wanted to say is that, in the process of journey from the individual to brahman, the sadhak does encounter states of consciousness which seem 'non-dual' but which are not permanent, neither answers the question "who am I". The sapta jnana bhumi in yoga explains this very well. As also you are discussing in the 'Manuel' thread.

While this is how consciousness is said to be evolving, we cannot base course of action for the ourselves and much less the society (topic of this thread, the demoniac) based on these intermediate states of consciousness, while ego still persists.

Hence being an astika and divine words of the scriptures are necessary base for us.


**Most modern day non-duality realized souls seem to think and act differently than Vasistha or Krishna indicated.

[Kaos]

**Most modern day non-duality realized souls seem to think and act differently than Vasistha or Krishna indicated.



A reflection of the age of the Kali-yuga. The dance of Shiva continues until Kali devours the devourer of time himself.

[Znanna]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste ZN,
these are wise words echoed by many a saint, yet is it with their unbounded view of the world that they see this ultimate truth.

The great Brahmarshi Gaudapada tells us the truth from his level of enlightement:
The supreme truth is this: there is no birth and no dissolution, no aspirant to liberation and no liberated, and no one who is in slavery
(Mandukyakarika, II, 32).

Now, for me, there is no reason for me to doubt this wisdom, yet I do not live it. This is from a rishi that is completely absorbed and living in turiya, a most blessed state. But to the house-holder, the sadhu that is yet to know this from the personal-experiential level , this is still the wisdom of the rishi's, all good (sattvic) and wonderful, yet not realized.

This is why it has been a joy to talk to Manuel ( from the post 'A profound experience of That' ). A 'regular guy' that is experiencing this Brahman and put his experience in simple context.

I am happy for you if you are experiencing the truth of 'It'... this is wonderful - please provide your experieces for us. Help us compare and contrast This from That.


So, as we talk of the practical side of life and its application of spiritual concepts , the Gita is there to assist - the cream of the Veda's as it is called. And in the final analysis , as you have stated there is really no duality, no demonic or divine, there is the Fullness of Brahman. All there for us to reach, understand and experience... along the way, I am in hopes we all can enjoy the ride. Thanks again for your great post.



pranams,



Namaste,

It is not complicated, unless one wishes to worry at it like a dog with a bone ... actually the simplicity is what makes apprehension a trouble, I suppose.

But yes, there really is no difference, this is why representations of the Buddha shows a serene smile, I think ...

When love is all, there is no other and it feels soooo good ...

I cannot describe more than the classic and beautiful poetry of the shakta texts what is that I've experienced, however when SHE graces me, I can show and participate in such. There are several whom I have merged with with the grace of Godz, and this has shown me there is no restriction in time, space, form, etc.

It is not a matter of seeking but of being found, I think, which produces the day to day manifestations such as your friend describes ... acceptance rather than projection it is sort of an inside out manner of revealing.

I'll post this rather than deleting, against my more conservative judgement :)



ZN

[willie]

It is an ill wind indeed that blows no good. So let's look at hitler and see where some good came from his evil deeds. Sure about 300,000 americans were killed or wounded in the war.

On the other hand, when the troops returned to the US the superhighway system was started because of the road system the germans had build and to general european road system .

The US army of WWII was segregrated but that changed after the war. The missle and rockets came into being, and while some are used for atomic weapons others are used in the space program, to put up satillites and for research.

The modern jet airplane came about because of the germans and so did the first rocket plane. There was even a german flying wing that looked like a moderm b2b.

Additionally, it showed that an isolationist policy could be bad because it allowed mad men to take over whole countries . Plus it allowed the US to crowded the british to give india its freedom.

It also showed the world the interior of the concentration camp and started a process that tracked down the people who ran them and profited from the stolen property.

Some how it makes me wonder if brahman looked at what was going on and made sure some good came out of it all.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

It is an ill wind indeed that blows no good. So let's look at hitler and see where some good came from his evil deeds. Sure about 300,000 americans were killed or wounded in the war.

On the other hand, when the troops returned to the US the superhighway system was started because of the road system the germans had build and to general european road system .

The US army of WWII was segregrated but that changed after the war. The missle and rockets came into being, and while some are used for atomic weapons others are used in the space program, to put up satillites and for research.

The modern jet airplane came about because of the germans and so did the first rocket plane. There was even a german flying wing that looked like a moderm b2b.

Additionally, it showed that an isolationist policy could be bad because it allowed mad men to take over whole countries . Plus it allowed the US to crowded the british to give india its freedom.

It also showed the world the interior of the concentration camp and started a process that tracked down the people who ran them and profited from the stolen property.

Some how it makes me wonder if brahman looked at what was going on and made sure some good came out of it all.

Hello Willie,
thank you for this view, of finding something good in the turmoil of the second world war. My angst of Hitler was not that of the soldier as they know they were coming into harms way. It is the thousands of Jews that Hitler and his staff chose to harm, butcher and bring the greatest level of grief to these folks. [ the numbers suggest 5.1 Million non-millitary , if you care to look , http://www.holocaust-history.org/~rjg/deaths.shtml , has the numbers ]

Now how would I know this other then reading and watching news casts?
As a boy I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood ( this was the 1950's) after world war II. I lived among the people that were bound to the concentration camps...treated less then animals. They could not finish their stories of the camps. They showed their concentration camp numbers tattooed on their wrists. Families broken apart. Hundreds of people once starved to death, gassed, burned, injected with test drugs, shot in the head, then all bull dozed into graves covered up, then the bull dozer moved-on to the next pile of human remains. All done on purpose, with intent to harm, to torture, to kill and to wipe out these people.

This is why my angst and ultimate discomfort with Hitler is so high. This was his intent. They were the superior race. How ignorant can this be? Yet it was their ideology.

If we add the torture + all the Americans and allied forces killed, I would trade all the technology, roads, airplanes and missiles back for even a handful of these people that knew and expeinced pure terror and tortured for no reason other then to not be German.

Dying happens by the minute - its part of life, yet to bring pain and suffering , mindfully, on purpose and in many many instances to the pleasure and amusement of the abusers ( the German military), This is beneath the dignity of man. In my book No exchange of technology, money, or material gain can compensate for this.

Again thank you for finding a glimmer of good here. May we never see the likes of this type of being(s) again on this good earth.

[Ganeshprasad]

Hari Om
~~~~~



Again thank you for finding a glimmer of good here. May we never see the likes of this type of being(s) again on this good earth.

Pranam Yajvan

I share your anguish and pain, what kind of madness drives people like this I don’t know.

Atrocities to human still goes on, all be it on a smaller scale.

And let us spare a thought for those silent animal who can not protest or perhaps we just ignore their plight. The pain inflicted to them are unimaginable, out of sight out of mind, until we learn to respect all forms of life, likes of Hitlers will always rear their ugly head from time to time

I am afraid this is the nature of this world, temporary and painfull as Lord Shree Krishna explains,

mam upetya punar janma
duhkhalayam asasvatam
napnuvanti mahatmanah
samsiddhim paramam gatah

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Znanna]

Namaste,

Contemplation of Hitler's atrocities (which also included destruction of religious and philosophical texts not of his own making) in his perverse attempt to be God, the head of state of a super race of his own creed, reminds me that this would be why y'all stress the importance of a physical Guru.

There is no question he was an abomination.

However, he was a perfect Hitler :)





ZN

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~


It is not complicated, unless one wishes to worry at it like a dog with a bone ... actually the simplicity is what makes apprehension a trouble, I suppose. But yes, there really is no difference, this is why representations of the Buddha shows a serene smile, I think ...

When love is all, there is no other and it feels soooo good ...

I cannot describe more than the classic and beautiful poetry of the shakta texts what is that I've experienced, however when SHE graces me, I can show and participate in such. There are several whom I have merged with with the grace of Godz, and this has shown me there is no restriction in time, space, form, etc.

It is not a matter of seeking but of being found, I think, which produces the day to day manifestations such as your friend describes ... acceptance rather than projection it is sort of an inside out manner of revealing.ZN

Namaste ZN,
I wanted to address your post, that addressed mine, thank you!
You point to the discussion of this and THAT as uncomplicated, yes I concur. It is very simple, so simple we miss it, so subtle that we pass it by in our rush of life. You have pointed this out very well.

One muni I have great repect for , Swami muni Narayana Prasad, says it like this:
The attainment of the Absolute ( Self) doesn't mean leaving one domain behind and reaching out to another. It only means knowing that there is only one Reality and visualizing oneself as one with that Reality.

For me this resonates with my comprehension, experiences and teaching/learning as of late. Yet this is not easy to put to words.

Please continue as you see fit to discuss this...the more one talks of IT, the more IT grows stonger in one's life.

pranams,

[Znanna]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste ZN,
I wanted to address your post, that addressed mine, thank you!
You point to the discussion of this and THAT as uncomplicated, yes I concur. It is very simple, so simple we miss it, so subtle that we pass it by in our rush of life. You have pointed this out very well.

One muni I have great repect for , Swami muni Narayana Prasad, says it like this:
The attainment of the Absolute ( Self) doesn't mean leaving one domain behind and reaching out to another. It only means knowing that there is only one Reality and visualizing oneself as one with that Reality.

For me this resonates with my comprehension, experiences and teaching/learning as of late. Yet this is not easy to put to words.

Please continue as you see fit to discuss this...the more one talks of IT, the more IT grows stonger in one's life.

pranams,

Thank you :)

Twin put it this way:



The mind is incapable of holding the Truth,for if it held the Truth it would also have to acknowledge that it has created an illusion of separation from God,

and if that was acknowledged,the illusion would disappear and You would Know You are One with God,

The mind would then be relegated to it's appropriate function...........creativity.


Namaste,
ZN

[willie]

Everyone wants to talk about the poor jew because the jews did a good pr job. But upon closer examination of the death camps it can be seen that a lot of slavic people and gypies were killed and most were shot in sight.

Hitler started to kill the jews when chruchhill and rosevelt met off the coast of canada. He knew that with the backing and entry of america he had little chance of winning the war , so he stepped up the killing of jews slavs,gypsies and others . He also rounded up all the germans in mental institutions and gassed them. Set up breeding programs to produce people and paid the participants to have kids.

The german army was composed of a lot of poles and austrians along with germans and a alot of the mass killing was carried out in small towns by the local population. No one liked the jews becasue the jews lived in their own communities and did not mix much with others.

There are a lot of hard feeling about america not bombing the concentration camps early in the war as some think that would have put a serious crimp in the whole killing machinery. Unfortuantly, that was a one way trip as the planes did not have enough fuel to make it back to safe terroritory.

Even as late as the 60s there were laws in the books in scandanavia to sterlize orphans who did not have the scandavian ethnic looks.

So when idi amin and pau pot were killing people like flies and the genocide in chad and southern africa was an still is going on, where is the israel army?

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Everyone wants to talk about the poor jew because the jews did a good pr job. But upon closer examination of the death camps it can be seen that a lot of slavic people and gypies were killed and most were shot in sight.

The german army was composed of a lot of poles and austrians along with germans and a alot of the mass killing was carried out in small towns by the local population. No one liked the jews becasue the jews lived in their own communities and did not mix much with others.

There are a lot of hard feeling about america not bombing the concentration camps early in the war as some think that would have put a serious crimp in the whole killing machinery.


Even as late as the 60s there were laws in the books in scandanavia to sterlize orphans who did not have the scandavian ethnic looks.

So when idi amin and pau pot were killing people like flies and the genocide in chad and southern africa was an still is going on, where is the israel army?

Willie,
I see your point. The Jews were used in the last post due to their massive numbers that were destroyed and to my personal experience of talking to some of the concentration camp survivors personally. It doesn't matter to me, jew, pole, gypsy, French, Irish, you name it, killing for sport , for testing, for genocide is not right and the Nazi's took pride in this behavior and hence win the Demoniac Achievement Award for the last 100 years in time.

Pitiful, brutal, disturbed, twisted, unrelenting, sick, mentally unbalanced, beings that must have came from the caves of hell...If there was a mix of different nationalities, so be it. It does not distract from their abysmally disgusting behaviors that are beneath the dignity of man.

Look at the numbers of people ( the non combatant's list) below, that were extinguished from this earth by the Nazi Machine . Those that chose to be part of that machine ( other then Germans) will also pay for their gruesome behavior.

You have mentioned "No one liked the jews because the jews lived in their own communities and did not mix much with others" - I am in hopes you are not suggesting that gives one ( the Nazi's) the right to destroy them?

Willle, we're talking of people, not pan cakes... people that have families, children, aspirations, spiritial goals; just living on this earth is struggle enough, then you get a bunch of knuckleheads that think they are superior to others, such small small, inadequate Nazi thinking on their part.

So here's some numbers - the Nazi's were the equal-opportunity distributor of murder, torture, grief and destruction.
Jews
At least 5.1 million to 5.75 million, high end and ;
4.19 million to 4.58 million on the low end

Poles
Approximately 5,384,000 about 50% of whom were Jews

Soviet citizens
7 million civilians died in the war
2.3 million POW'

Romani and Sinti
250,000-1,000,000

The Disabled
Over 200,000 were killed in the official euthanasia campaign, 1939-41. "No reliable figures exist for the spontaneous killings."

British and American POW's
8,348
Homosexuals (they too did not meet the Master Race specification)
3,000-9,000 German homosexuals according to one count
5,000-15,000 according to another

source: if you care to look , http://www.holocaust-history.org/~rjg/deaths.shtml

[dharma66]

It could be argued that Stalin actually made Hitler look like Mary Poppins. Stalin is responsible fr may more deaths. But that's hardly relevant.

Perhaps the biggest indicator to me that we are indeed in Kali Yuga is the fact that it's possible to real off a list of half a dozen such monsters from the last century alone - and without even having to pause for thought. Men who had such tendencies, and were permitted by circumstance and their peers to develop to their full destructive potential. How many more such people are there if we were to really count up?

These men have had a marked effect on world history. It is difficult to identify, from the same time period, more than one great soul who has had a similar impact on world history, but for the 'forces of good', rather then evil.