Our discussions on HDF: your assessment?

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaskr,

I was just pondering the overall contributions from the folks on HDF.
According to the numbers there are ~ 224 people that have signed
up for this site.
When I look at the number of people that post on a some what regular
basis, I count 10 , or ~ 4.5% of the 'members'.

This has me thinking:
1. Are the posts interesting and invokes participation?
2. Are they ( the posts) too shallow in thinking or too esoteric?
3. Are they contempory and relevent?


Why do I mention this? Do we think 4% participation is about right for diversity and issues of thought? I am sure there is no 'quota' in this yet diverse and meaningful thought is rewarding to the readers.

That said, are we hitting the interest mark? What more ( or less) would one want to discuss? I have seen posts from tatoo's to rock music all the way to the sublime of bhaki, siddhi, and the like.


Are we missing anything that anyone (you) would like HDF to address that fits into the genre of HDF?

[saidevo]

Namaste Yajvan,



When I look at the number of people that post on a some what regular
basis, I count 10 , or ~ 4.5% of the 'members'.


Yes, the participation level is one of concern; seems it has come down in the absence of Sarabhanga, though equally or even more weighty topics are being discussed now. The number 10 as the count of regular participants is much less than what it used to be.

What about the viewing levels? Assuming that one who hits a post reads it, do we have stats of the viewing levels per thread, per post, per person? In any forum around 50% of the members are normally just lurking, though they may be reading most of the posts.

One reason could be the lack of familiarity with the scriptural texts that are extensively quoted (I am in this category, though I manage to look up where a quote appeals to me and try to say something relevant as my part of contribution). Scriptural text is quoted in context in the posts, and this is a must because we discuss things in the Hindu perspective. Some guidelines given by well-read members as to the best way of going about reading the scriptures, but since our scriptures are so vast, varied and deep, it takes time even to get familiar with them. Perhaps the well-read like you might think about giving a synopsis of the essence of the major scriptures with their popular quotes.

Another area of expansion may be in discussing more of applied spirituality such as yoga, meditation, asanas, pujas, rituals and the like, with members experiences, problems and suggestions. We might discuss, for example, a single mantra (from the single-lettered Aum to the mahavakhyas) with focus on its words, meaning and application at different levels: physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual.

Since science and technology rules the roost in today's world, we might discuss their spiritual implications, expanding the discussion to their ancient counterparts and possible alternatives for a better life today.

I would also like to learn about the life and education, as it was in ancient India vis-à-vis the pre-Muslim and pre-British and modern India.

A Quiz Forum

We might also have an exclusive forum on quiz about Hinduism and history of Bharat. The quiz idea should be implemented to increase participation level of the members. First we need to have a panel of well-read members who can develop and publish the syllabus (with discussions in the forum). Next we might invite everyone to contribute questions by private mail to the panel members, who would edit and select them and add them to their own collections. Questions must be objective and might be of four types: logical (true or false), objective (two or more choices), fill-up (a missing phrase or word) and match-it (matching numbered options to their lettered choices, such as 1b2c3a and filling up a text box with this answer).

Once the quiz bank (the questions database) has 5,000 or more questions, it can be opened for individual attempts. It won't be a competitive quiz showtime here, but only a personal accomplishment for every individual. My target would be get the right answers to all the questions, and since the quiz bank will be expanding, I will be chasing a moving target! My KQ (knowledge quotient) will be the count of rightly answered questions I accumulate.

The software that implements the management of the Quiz Time and Quiz Bank should take care to record the count and id of each member's rightly answered questions, so they are not asked for him/her the next time. Questions could be displayed in a random manner and for a specified time, say ten or fifteen minutes. Each question will have a time to answer and if answered earlier the leftover time will be carried over the next one. If a question is answered later than the allotted time, the excess time will be deducted from the time of the next questions. Thus in a session of 10 minutes, there might be 10 to 15 questions with individual times ranging from 30 to 60 seconds.

I can prepare a write-up of specifications on what the software would need to cater to. If Satay and other members agree to the idea, we can discuss how to implement it, whether as a separate database-driven Website or within the context of HDF (as a sub-forum).

A professionally-designed Quiz Bank that caters to many levels (novice, advanced, expert) and audiences (students, householders, seekers) could go a long way in furthering our familiarity with our religion, its scriptures and the country where they originated and flourished.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Yes, the participation level is one of concern; seems it has come down in the absence of Sarabhanga, though equally or even more weighty topics are being discussed now. The number 10 as the count of regular participants is much less than what it used to be.

One reason could be the lack of familiarity with the scriptural texts that are extensively quoted

Namaste saidevo,
you bring many good ideas i.e. quiz, scriptures within context, etc.
Its key when we bring quotes that we explain them vs. cut 'n paste.
the premise is Reading (something) does not insure comprehension and
the jewels that are in that reading needs to be offered-up. So , this in my humble opinion needs to be standard fare for all scriptures used.
Also, a discussion on a particular valli, sutra or paragraph can be a point of discussion for all to take a look and participate in offering an understanding.

That said, perhaps it makes sense to get some add'l feedback from the HDF participants what is valuable to the reader... once we know this, we can offer options and solutions if warranted.

We could have people that just prefer to read and not write...yet we want to have the enviroment that no-one is feeling uncomfortable in participating and questions, comments are welcomed.

What are your (and others) thoughts on this?


pranams,

[Zardozi]

Namaste,
I am a newbie and I am disappointed at the level of participation. I encourage people to ask questions about our dharma as well as answer with personal thought.

I think a quiz is a fabulous idea. It should demonstrate knowledge of major as well as finer details including language.

Maste Nam,
Zardozi

[sm78]

But I thought this forum is one of the most sane in the whole www.

[YogSadhak]

Namaste !,

I am a newbie here and still figuring out what is where. The site is well structured but pardon me as it still taking time to figure out what is where.

Once I get familiar with the threads and topics I will try to participate more actively.

Few things I would like to add is a website like this should have a very clear navigation like one with easy and simple spiritual topics and discussion where all the newbie or curious mind to this interest are not afraid to participate or ask questions without having a fear of someone telling them "SILLY".

Also you might want to add some more search keywords for google robots , etc so this website comes up on a simple keyword searches like yoga or ayurveda or veda..... as I have used google for my searched on vedas and other related quest not come across this website till day before yesterday.

Overall am very much happy and interested with this website. Hope it will help me , guide me in my spiritual path of life.

Hari OM !

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam


But I thought this forum is one of the most sane in the whole www. (http://www.)

Could not agree more.

this forum is only young, give it some time.



So how do we encourage more people to join in the positive discussions? I like to discuss how things are going in everyday life. Does anyone need support; has anyone had some insight related to Hindu Dharma. Would others like to see more of this?

this is also a good idea from MG

Jai Shree Krishna

[satay]

namaste all!

Yajvan has started something very interesting here. I like everyone's feedback here.

Yes, I agree that there is low participation, however, I would have to say that the quality of posts here on HDF are many times better than a number of forums. I am a member of several forums including forums from other religions. Some of these forums have several thousand members and millions of posts, however, most of the posts are chit chat and entertainment or recycled ideas.

HDF is unique in that most knowledgeable members here value their words and put quite a bit of thought in thier posts.

Also, we must remember that the forums is very young. In fact, it is almost strange that we have over ten thousand posts in one year. Most new forums die within the first year, especially if the participation is low.

We can do two things -

1. we can change the focus of the forum and make it more entertaining instead of more to the point of dharma. By that I mean, we could install games, chat rooms etc. which will attract younger crowd.

2. or we can continue with the current focus and try to encourage the current members, try to increase visibility and rank in search engines, refer the site to others that we know etc.

Another point is that when we started the forum (some of you know this), there were debates going on here that almost always became personal among members. We ended up redirecting those members out of HDF because the main purpose of this forum is 'positive presentation of hindu dharma' and not quarrelling among each other of finer points of the hindu theology.

In conclusion, I would like to suggest that to us, the quality of posts should be more important to the quantity. Having said that though 4% participation is very low and we need to continue discussing ways to bring this participation level up.

This is "our" forum. Let's make it what we want.

[sm78]

I like to discuss how things are going in everyday life. Does anyone need support; has anyone had some insight related to Hindu Dharma. Would others like to see more of this?

I'll like that too.

[Agnideva]

Namaskars All,

I agree overall with what other members here have been saying. The quality here is folds better than in other forums. I even like to believe that we are a “teaching” forum. Many times, I’ve done a google search on some topic and come up with HDF pages, and the HDF posts were more informative and detailed than any other site!!

That said, I do agree that the number of posters is low. However, before we arrive at percentages, I guess what we really have to see is how many active members there are. Just because the forum has 225 members doesn’t mean they are all active or visit on a regular basis. My guess is only a fraction of that number visit regularly.

Anyway, I have a hunch that since this forum has a larger percentage of knowledgeable members, people who may not be so knowledgeable feel a little intimidated to post their thoughts and opinions on a given subject. However, that should NOT be the case.

What can we do so that everyone will feel comfortable posting their opinions and questions? Are our responses too long, too detailed, too technical, is there too much Sanskrit, impractical? Some constructive criticism from newbies would be nice.

Could we maybe also have a subforum just for basic questions on any aspect of Hindu Dharma (what one may feel are “dumb” questions – there’s really no such thing)? And the responders should answer very succinctly without use of too many fancy terms? Do y'all think that will be helpful especially to newcomers? Just a passing thought …

I also like MG’s idea – where a person could speak of some practical issue in their life and ask for advice/opinions from a Hindu perspective.

OM Shanti,
A.

[saidevo]

Namaste Satay.



We can do two things -

1. we can change the focus of the forum and make it more entertaining instead of more to the point of dharma. By that I mean, we could install games, chat rooms etc. which will attract younger crowd.

2. or we can continue with the current focus and try to encourage the current members, try to increase visibility and rank in search engines, refer the site to others that we know etc.

... the main purpose of this forum is 'positive presentation of hindu dharma' and not quarrelling among each other of finer points of the hindu theology.

In conclusion, I would like to suggest that to us, the quality of posts should be more important to the quantity. Having said that though 4% participation is very low and we need to continue discussing ways to bring this participation level up.


1. I would rather NOT prefer entertainment (there are many forums for such things) at the cost of the purpose of the forum which is 'positive presentation of hindu dharma' .

2. As some members have opined here, we can have a 'newbie thread', perhaps under every forum, or a newby forum itself where newbies can post freely and be answered in polite and practical terms. We may even have a separate reputation index for newbies until they are comfortable with migrating to serious content.

3. Discussion on everyday experiences and problems and the application of Hindu Dharma to them would be great. One such discussion, started by Atanu is already on about corporate business and Hindu Dharma.

4. A good Hindu/Sanskrit lexicon as part of HDF database with a limited number of frequently used words (may be 5000) could be very helpful.

5. What about a forum that teaches elementary Sanskrit?

Overall, Satay, you are doing a great job; the Forum is young and would go a long way as a major source of reference on the Net for Hindu Dharma.

[yajvan]

Hari On
~~~~~


Namaste,
All have given good insightful feedback on this matter... let me see if I captured it (this is for action and learning purposes so edit as you see fit)

Quality is king - do not forefit this for other nice to have's
( I will take a stab at what quality equals and submit it for your conideration after we agree of its import)
Simplicity ( this is divine anyway, and I suggest we avoid being too complicated, for max. comprehension)
Inviting to new members... how so ? perhaps a sub forum section for NTSD ( New to Sanatana Dharma)
A Every day life folder - how would one handle life issues section within a Dharmic framework
NOt to worry on quota's - that is if 4% post, great, if 10% even better but not to loose sleep over this
My favorate: Reading does not = comprehension
Cut 'n paste is parochial ( that is, very limited or narrow in scope or outlook) and value is limited; What does that sutra, mantra, valli, etc. mean to you , to the conversation. If they come from the wise lets take a stab at what the parable means, otherwise it is just ink on paper, nothing more. This is how we stretch our thinking , our concepts, our undersanding. How will one reach the Infinite if we are content with limits?
Define your terms - if sanskrit is offered ( I am a proponent of this) then offer the english rendition, and maybe root words of its origin, this is for learning purposes.
Respect, humble, open-ness to others and thier ideas... a 'no spanking policy'. Recognize good work. We will do this via compliments, and applause. The intent:- catch people doing something right and aknowledge their good work. Make corrections to thinking, but not at the expense of ones good nature or mental health.
A definitions page - we have talked about this in the past... I raise my hand to assist. It is a learning experience for those that will help and reseach the words with me , if one cares to do so.Hope these items above captures the initial intent... if we agree, we can move forward...AND for new arrivals, this can be given to them as part of the ground rules for thier kind particiation.

Last - painted cakes to not satisfy hunger, say the wise. If we just talk of this with no action on it, we have wasted an opportunity to improve.

pranams,

[satay]

namaste,
I will create a new forum for New to Sanatana Dharma members. A new forum for Sanskrit definitions of words.

I agree with what sri yajvan has suggested here about positive feedback.

One thing I notice is that we talk about things but stuff never happens. For whatever reason 'life' gets to us and the action items on the list get reprioritize.

[atanu]

namaste,
I will create a new forum for New to Sanatana Dharma members. A new forum for Sanskrit definitions of words.

I agree with what sri yajvan has suggested here about positive feedback.

One thing I notice is that we talk about things but stuff never happens. For whatever reason 'life' gets to us and the action items on the list get reprioritize.

Namaste,

I came late to this thread. I agree to most of all that has been suggested and agreed. A section each for new members (sort of test forum), sanskrit word meanings, and everyday concerns (as suggested by SM and MG) may add inceremental quantitative improvement.

Another qualitative change, which may increase participation, may be to allow more diversity on topics. If we allow some acrimony and differences to prosper, grow and resolve automatically and reserve editorial and rearrangement rights over the quality at final stages, then probably we may have more participation.

Om

[satay]

What about a thread for people who are having either problems or insights, who would like some feedback, but are not articulate enough in Hindu to express it with terms from Hindu (kind of like what the new member was alluding to). A thread for people to post things like, "Hey I have this going on in my life, xxxxx. What would Hindu Dharma advise?" So, it would not be philosophical debate or intellectual discussion of dogma or principals, but just helping someone out with life experiences and scripture. No criticism of person, etc.


namaste MG,
New comers can start these types of thread under 'New to Sanatana Dharma' forum or under 'I am a Hindu' forum.

I appreciate all your feedback.

Thanks,

[Znanna]

I like the Lexicon very much, thanks!

Would it be possible to include the sanskrit spelling of the word also, for those of us who are starting that aspect of study, too?

(Not to mention that I'd very much like to see Yajvan's comments on the root syllables as well.)



Namaste,
ZN

[satay]

Namaskar,

I am wondering about the quality of posts/threads in HDFPuri. What do you think of it?

I have been listening to some lectures on Hinduism from Oxford university (you can download lectures from their web site). I feel that the 'scholary' type discussions based on research and references are largerly missing on HDF though there is continued effort in this area by some members.

We get hung up in personal attacks and emotions instead of focusing on scholary level discussions.

Thoughts on improving this situation?

For more on where I am coming from...listen to some lectures by Dr. Clooney (a Christian scholar!)

http://ochs.org.uk/lectures/previous-lectures?order=field_lect_surname_value&sort=asc

[DavidC]

1. Are the posts interesting and invokes participation?
2. Are they ( the posts) too shallow in thinking or too esoteric?
3. Are they contempory and relevent?

1. Do you mean do they 'encourage participation?' yes.
2. sometimes, but not too esoteric for me--at least not if I read a bit more.
3. I do not really know; probably.

I thought there were many more members, and I do not know if 4% discussing often is good or not.

A lexicon was mentioned in the past; I do not know where some of you get the words in Sanskrit and with accent marks, but saying where--whether you want to make a forum about it or not--would be helpful.

I had given some suggestions on forums to add (Tantra, Ayyavazhi, maybe Samkhya, though only someone more knowledgeable would know if those would be popular) and religions to add in profiles (Jain, Mazdayasna/Mazdaism/Zoroastrainism, Bahai, African-Eurasian & Australian & American indigenous religions as well as 'ecumenical/inter-religious/non-sectarian' and maybe Theosophy or also Classical Western philosophies (which are really part of European religions.) I study them all but ecumenical 'Eternal Philosophy' describes me best even if I do not know all the details about its definition 'Sanatana Dharma.' If you have any questions about the non-Asian religions I could list some. I also think check boxes to choose more than one would be nicer--mystics might like that.)

If the site becomes more popular as you wish, I suspect there may be a chance you have to pay more to keep it up. One idea would be to have some advertisements for Dharma-related businesses like for Indian crafts such as religious icons. Actually a thread on that might be interesting.

[satay]

Namaste,


A lexicon was mentioned in the past; I do not know where some of you get the words in Sanskrit and with accent marks, but saying where--whether you want to make a forum about it or not--would be helpful.


Lexicon forum is here http://hindudharmaforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=63



I had given some suggestions on forums to add (Tantra, Ayyavazhi, maybe Samkhya, though only someone more knowledgeable would know if those would be popular) and religions to add in profiles (Jain, Mazdayasna/Mazdaism/Zoroastrainism, Bahai, African-Eurasian & Australian & American indigenous religions as well as 'ecumenical/inter-religious/non-sectarian' and maybe Theosophy or also Classical Western philosophies (which are really part of European religions.) I study them all but ecumenical 'Eternal Philosophy' describes me best even if I do not know all the details about its definition 'Sanatana Dharma.' If you have any questions about the non-Asian religions I could list some. I also think check boxes to choose more than one would be nicer--mystics might like that.)


My apologies for not addressing this earlier. A lot of visitors and members have told me in the past that there is already a large sub division of forums here 'way too many' as one member put it. The main theme of the forum is to discuss Hindu Dharma and not necessarily all asian or non-asian religions. Though if we get more diverse group of members I might take your suggestion and create more sub forums. Last thing we want is empty forums. Adding religions to the profile list is not a problem and I will do that this weekend.



If the site becomes more popular as you wish, I suspect there may be a chance you have to pay more to keep it up. One idea would be to have some advertisements for Dharma-related businesses like for Indian crafts such as religious icons. Actually a thread on that might be interesting.

Money is not the problem and neither is popularity of the forum. Most senior members decided a few years back that quality of the posts is more important than popularity. So is the quality of membership rather than number of members.

I will not put more ads on the site. No one has to worry about funding the site even if it becomes way more popular. I will deal with that.

[satay]

namaskar,

I have added some of these in the Profile list box. If you have a list of more religions, please pm me and I will add those too.

Also, added another required field where new members will now have to enter their 'purpose' for joining the forum. I had been thinking of doing this for a while.

Thanks,


religions to add in profiles (Jain, Mazdayasna/Mazdaism/Zoroastrainism, Bahai, African-Eurasian & Australian & American indigenous religions as well as 'ecumenical/inter-religious/non-sectarian' and maybe Theosophy or also Classical Western philosophies (which are really part of European religions.)