Hinduism in US

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Looks like we're here to stay.

http://www.thearda.com/asrec/archive/papers/Melton_Hindu_Demographics.pdf

Aum Namasivaya

[ShivaFan]

Namaste EM

This is a very interesting study, thanks for sharing it!

I find it largely accurate, quite impressive actually.

The expected stats regarding California as number 1, with New York, New Jersey and Texas as states with large numbers of Hindu temples and adherents was no surprise, but what I did find interesting that is a shift from the 1960s into the 1980s is that now at least 1 Hindu temple is found in every single state of the Union in the US, e.g. "with every state having at least one".

This is remarkable actually, in only less than 50 years since 1965 when the US really opened itself up to welcoming Indians and with the first "converts" to Hinduism from "European Americans", we now see at least one temple in every single state.

I think the stats and numbers were as accurate as what can be considered a statistical approach and academic survey, and they are impressive numbers, but actually my personal observation is the numbers are actually notably larger than this survey. This is because, starting in the 1990's, there was a new "practice" of Hinduism if you will that has now spread notably and has even resulted in the establishment of a number of new temples conducted with full (and rather impressive) deity worship which includes an authorized Hindu priest (e.g. not a "Guru" centric movement, but which has an officiating priest typically from India) that are literally run out of private homes located in suburban neighborhoods.

The new "practice" I am referring to, which was alluded to in this study, is what as the author noted first known as "satsang groups" (which actually were not typically a gathering of adherents discussing philosophy but in fact almost always and typically bhajan groups accompanied by readings from Ramayana or other sacred texts, and inclusive of "Hindu poster art" and small murtis on a small shrine).

Early on in the 1990's, these were typically Krishna oriented but not necessarily, consisted initially of Westerners with a certain select participants who came from India. They were located all over, often in neighborhoods, and held on a regular to "notification" (by e-mail typically) schedule. And this would also consist not only of those who would attend in person such gatherings, but had a much larger "circle" of "communications" this typically would be the nature of sending out and receiving "Hindu Holy" day greetings by email and cards, and concerns about for example others who were having some physical sickness or crisis and giving "moral support" if you will.

The nature of this became more diverse, and while initially these were typically Krishna centric, this changed rapidly, and upon observation of my own opinion which does not have any application of traditional "survey" methods, I would say the today these have the following Devas or Devi as the predominate Divine:

* Devi (Durga and Parvati)
* Hanuman
* Krishna
* Kali (this is Devi as well, but deserves it's own unique listing)
* Shiva
* Guru (some popular Guru figure)

I have noticed a notable rise in Devi adherence, and some of these "groups" run out of houses in the suburbs have now turned into full fledged Devi temples even though still located in private homes. Also notable, is an attendance to such "groups" or neighborhood satsangs from Hispanics.

There are also now some notable and rather well funded "groups" which are Hanuman centric. Some have rather elaborate temples which do not show up in this 2011 survey.

At this time, in terms of speaking specifically of "Western Hindus" (verse those who have Indian origin), for some reason Devi is becoming very popular (a mix of Indians and Westerners), and Hanuman is very popular with Westerners. This may change overtime, this is an observation. But if the trend continues, Devi and Hanuman may overtake Krishna in popularity in the US, I am not taking sides on any of this just speaking in terms of observation which can be subjective. Even though Hanuman is my Ishta Lord, I am not mentioning Hanuman in this discussion from a biased point of view, it is an honest observation of which I do not have any particular explanation as to why Lord Hanuman is becoming so popular with "Americans" (Westerners).

In regards to the Guru figure groups, these was a potential for the Nityananda based (South Indian) centric centers to have taken in a lot of "Western adherents", but this has fallen off somewhat due to the recent scandals.

I recently was discovering a new and potential giant in the US in the form of the Datta Yoga Centers. These have numbers of adherents who have Indian origin, but is notably expanding and including non-Indians. I am interested in attending their bhajan groups which I have now found are multiple such groups in the Bay Area alone. These are not temples, but "gatherings". Their center of activity currently is in Texas, but I predict this to expand soon.

I have noticed something else, as well, among other Westerners who have Hinduism in their heart. And that is, they are now starting to go out into the internet to seek out "online" or some means of "Hindu instruction". I predict that if for example, the Saiva Siddhantan Churches (which has it's center in Kauai, Hawaii), which already has a well know Master Course, expands in communicating such courseware, that there will be seen a nice upbeat in those who undertake such "Hinduism classes".

There are other "groups" within the US who are now also beginning to offer "online courses", one example is the recent postings by a HDF member regarding the Devi Ashram out of Napa, California. But there are now about another half dozen of such courseware, I predict as other Hindu organizations, Sampradayas, and sects (including those who currently only have exclusive presence in India and not the US and Canada) see the need and rising popularity for such "online Hindu courses" (terminology will vary) as "Introductions" to Hinduism and even eventual full fledged and divine teachings thereof, the next phase of such active Hinduism will be by means of such "online" and "collaborative" experiences, engagements and courses conducted by authorized Hindu teachers and priests. Of course they will be totally bogus ones as well, but you will see them fall by the wayside rapidly as those who are interested in such things will seek the "real thing".

That is what a lot of critics of Hinduism do not understand about what is happening. We have Indians now living all over the world. And also when non-Indians actually seek out to understand, they typically are attracted to what they term "the real thing" (something I have heard often) - this translates into authorized teachers and not "new age" types.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on so much, again this was a very interesting read.

Om Namah Sivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam:

Like you, I found it quite detailed. One problem I did notice though was no clear definition of Hinduism. Some of the groups they included were clearly not Hindu. But of course that wasn't their primary focus. Demographics was. Given the nature of us, it had to be a daunting task. For example, many Hindus wouldn't fit any category, and some could be counted 2 or 3 times. Others wouldn't respond to their queries.

Still interesting.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jetavan]

"Nityananda/Muktananda" traditions shouldn't have been listed as Hindu "Renaissance" traditions (traditions that "have their basis in what is
termed the Hindu Renaissance of the late nineteenth century"), since Muktananda's popularity (especially in the West) expanded after the late '60s and early '70s. They should've been put under "Post-Renaissance" ("movements that have come to the United States since the change in the
immigration laws in 1965 and which are typically centered on one new Hindu religious leader/teacher").

"III. Hindu Renaissance Traditions
Nityananda/Muktananda
(1) Adidam, Avataric Pan-Communion of
(2) SYDA Yoga Dham
(3)The Movement Center (formerly Nityananda Institute) Shanti Mandir
(4) Additional Independent centers"

[Friend from the West]

Hari Om

Namaste,

Like your, "Hinduism in their heart" ShivaFan.
Thought as read, the different definitions of Hinduism and as been discussed here in past, how many reticent to state "Hinduism" Think of a thread of yours perhaps, JaiJi, where you brought up how much of Hindu influence has came into U.S. or even Western vogue. Even if as has been discussed in yet other threads, many of these things have a new age or not understood twist, it does open Jiva's eyes to dormant truth.
Without proselytizing or coersion of others as found in some other traditions, think possiblity of further growth is strong. Young people interact with, seem to be looking for truth, not just cliche and not stuff given from priestcraft prevelant in this culture. Something deep and that resonates with their core if you will.
To me, those who have immigrated here are huge reason, without the proselytizing, for this growth. The modeling is strong from them. As just one example that thought was profound. Was participating in a very serious exercise, dealing with an impending clash with a threatening world power. A naturalized citizen from Bharat, came up with a solution that would never have been discovered without his participation. The next morning, the folks from group we were in talked about him. These were folks who were world weary and had seen much or they were intellectuals. The one who was a Hindu had made a very strong impact on them. Think with this dynamic being repeated many times over throughout the U.S., there is hope for more good folks opening their eyes as well.

Om Namah Shivaya

FFTW

[ShivaFan]

Namaste FFTW

These are good points you make, the Jivas eyes open to dormant truth, and in part we can thank those Hindus who have come to America from India, Americans observe them and it does not take long before they are admired, even with envy at times, with their high intelligence, spiritual demeanor and social etiquette that there is no need to even proselytize because they model all the things so many others wish they could be, they model the example and others want to also practice the same "religion".

Yes, those who have immigrated to the US are a huge reason.

To me, Hanuman is many things, including the Greatest Ambassador. He can speak many languages. He is also exemplar of Hindu and thereby Indian civility. Though he came from the forest, He is the very best example of what a civilian should be in a civil society.

Indians always have a strong impact with Americans of Euro descent. This was demonstrated at a recent Information Technology forum I attended. There was an Indian woman who participated in open discussion, her command at language, or more precise to the point her command at making and leading others towards understanding, well it was profound. She had a strong British like accent, but that made no difference to the Americans listening who might not be used to such an accent. She cut right into the consciousness like a knife through hot butter if you will, others were left will little to add since she had it all so easily and effectively.

This dynamic repeats itself each day in America, and with it Hinduism has a perspective and association with such Indian born Hindus on other non-Indian Americans. And so it grows, as it becomes the model.

Om Namah Sivaya

[Eastern Mind]

"Nityananda/Muktananda" traditions shouldn't have been listed as Hindu "Renaissance" traditions (traditions that "have their basis in what is
termed the Hindu Renaissance of the late nineteenth century"), since Muktananda's popularity (especially in the West) expanded after the late '60s and early '70s. They should've been put under "Post-Renaissance" ("movements that have come to the United States since the change in the
immigration laws in 1965 and which are typically centered on one new Hindu religious leader/teacher").

"III. Hindu Renaissance Traditions
Nityananda/Muktananda
(1) Adidam, Avataric Pan-Communion of
(2) SYDA Yoga Dham
(3)The Movement Center (formerly Nityananda Institute) Shanti Mandir
(4) Additional Independent centers"

Vannakkam: The paper was done by independent non-Hindu researchers in demographics. They wouldn't have the information or time to delve into each individual group to study out who they really were. There were several groups that I personally didn't feel belonged in it at all. But that's not the point.

The point is that many aspects of Hindu thought, and pure Hinduism itself are spreading, and is here to stay in the west. If you have quibbles with how the report was done, please write to the authors. In any such research it would be impossible to be accurate. They admitted that as well.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

The research is flattering but being a pragmatist, and pardon me for being the voice of dissent, I tend to see the long range scenario without the rose colored glasses. The survival of Hinduism in its pure form in the US and in the West depends on what is passed on to successive generations and how close a relationship they maintain to the land of origin of their faith.

If the children of Hindus do not fully accept the faith and become Hindus in name only, then in the long term it would be significantly secularized and diluted. Already, I can see them not being able to chant mantras because of loss of their native tongues and a lack of any knowledge of spoken Sanskrit. Also, if the successive generations do not go on pilgrimages to India to observe and reinforce their traditions/culture/inherited philosophy, then they will not stick to the 'real thing'. It is easier to get on the rah rah bandwagon and avoid the negative factors working against its survival, as we know it in its unadulterated form, but that is reality - Hindus being Americanized/Westernized in their food habits, their outlook on life, their lack of fierce pride in their heritage, and becoming Hindus in name only. Current generation has the benefit of large waves of new immigrants from the 70's and 80's, who were born and raised in India and have the first hand familiarity with Hinduism and go back often enough to maintain the bonds. But that is going to taper off. Left on their own, they are bound to alter the traditions and philosophy to cope with their surroundings. Let us hope that they don't all go to the other extreme and emulate Bobby Jindal or Nikky Haley. The challenge is not how it operates today, but how it will operate in the future without the benefit of infusion of large numbers of new immigrants from India.

Pranam.

[Eastern Mind]

The survival of Hinduism in its pure form in the US and in the West depends on what is passed on to successive generations and how close a relationship they maintain to the land of origin of their faith.



Vannakkam: I agree with what you say, but only time will tell. Maybe next lifetime we'll be here looking for it. I'll meet you in Denver. Sheer population has quite a lot to do with it, so in that sense, the groups like BAPS have the best chances, and in pockets, like the Sri Lankan refugee pocket in Toronto, where there are already 20 temples.

I've witnessed the practical disappearance of Ukrainian culture just east of here. Where there were once 50 churches or Ukrainian Catholic, or Ukrainian Orthodox, I think 3 are still functioning. It took 4 generations only.

Aum Namasivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté



Looks like we're here to stay.

Are you relocating to the USA ? https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/e/softbank_ne_jp.4E6

The report (you offered) suggests 1.2 million hindu's the USA. That is 0.39% of the population. As much as I would like to see it as a tidal wave, it is perhaps a ripple in the pond.

As of 2010 a distribution map of the USA and hindu presence.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/880220/thumbs/s-MOST-AND-LEAST-HINDU-CITIES-large640.jpg?4


iti śivaṁ

[TrikonaBindu]

Namaskaram.

I would never underestimate the power of living Devatas who proactively preserve and develop Sanatana Dharma. As necessary, to preserve the Hindu faith and sacred sciences, these Devatas resort to extraordinary measures to make their presence known. Is anyone unacquainted with the Milk Miracle of Sri Ganesha? (Just google Milk Miracle.) If such Devatas have decided to establish Their influence across the globe, there is no power that can stop Them. Yes, in some fraction of cases it may happen that the essential spiritual culture of Indian-American Hindus is attenuated. However:

1. There would also be the counter-reaction of succeeding generations of Indian-Americans who feel cheated of something essential to their identity. This is especially so, because their very names and physical features connect them to India, a nation that fascinates the world in such a way that people of Indian descent, whether they like it or not, are subject to inquiries about their heritage.

2. There is the likelihood that succeeding generations of Indian-Americans will produce larger numbers of scholars in the field of sacred studies.

3. Globally, there are increasing numbers of non-deshis who are tenaciously interested in this sacred culture and who will go to great lengths to get educated in it.

4. There is India. No matter the inimical forces internal or external to India, Hinduism will certainly remain robust in its homeland. Is there any doubt of that? Just consider what India has already survived and yet remains the spiritual lighthouse of the world. Granted, there have been terrible setbacks and irretrievable losses; e.g., catastrophe over centuries for Kashmiri Pandits. Nevertheless, India continues to produce awe-inspiring saints, scholars, and sages. Due to the determination of such yogi-savants, and also due to the staunch piety of hundreds of millions of rank-and-file faithful, the Hindu culture of India will shine in this world for a long time to come. And that will bolster the efforts of Hindus elsewhere on the planet, including the United States.

5. I also agree with previous contributors who point out that Indian immigrants have impressed the American public by their intelligence and competence. Particularly relevant to the present issue is the example of Indians who happen to be scientists as well as devout Hindus. That combination is a head-scratcher for a lot of Americans. It makes them wonder "How is this possible?" Certain individuals will be sufficiently impressed to investigate further: "What kind of theology could this be that it comfortably coexists with science?"

Am I optimistic for the future of Hinduism in the US? Yes, definitely. In centuries to come, will Hinduism remain the same as we find it today? If it did remain exactly the same, it would not be Hinduism, which has always been a rolling wheel.

Satyam eva jayate.

[Eastern Mind]

Are you relocating to the USA ? https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/e/softbank_ne_jp.4E6


Vannakkam:
:) Absolutely not. A nice place to visit, but I wouldn't ever move. Gun laws, health care, and the propensity of certain anti-Hindu forces are all good reasons.

Statistically, we are slightly ahead of you by population. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Canada

For sure we have more temples as compared to population. Toronto probably has more than any other metro area in North America.

On your map, Denver seemed high, but I don't know of many temples there. Do you know why?

Aum Namasivaya

[Friend from the West]

Hari Om

Namaste and hello to all. Think this is beautiful TrikonaBindu. Think like JaiJi's Ukrainian christian observation and what TrikonaBindu intimates, will not be tomorrow, but the ripple will continue to grow. Think there are substantial numbers who are on the cusp anyhow where this number could change quickly in a decades time. Subjectively, as only speculative, think number 1, the Divine, will be the factor. With this (am not anti U.S. in the least and think many pros and cons), seems people here in slow numbers are realizing how much of what we think we have is unsustainable. Much built on smoke and mirrors. 17 trillion debt and growing as just one issue.

Many in last twenty years are learning what this country was built upon. As the Sikhs in Canada have publicly acknowledged, on the suffering of the American Indians and blacks. Much inspired not by the god they believed but in resources and $$$. Many are becoming aware from returning soldiers how many innocents were killed from afar. Many are now numb to the callousness to which Dr. Magalwadi's christian apologetic types treat indigenous jivas. With this is the spiritual coldness of a mass or the x amount of minutes permitted to be preached at. People are leaving this in search of the truth. So many Americans are not even aware of this Hinduism. So many people have told me they were christians because they know nothing else. Think there so many other honest people than just amount run into from here.

One of the traits still of this country is tenacity and the belief (even if does not appear so and this trait is rapidly diminishing) in accountability. Think these things will make the infiltration of Islam most difficult as long as the people of this country do not become even more apathetic. If this is taken as given and with the shrinking of Christianity, think as more people become aware of Hinduism, more will be drawn to Her. Not tomorrow but with time.

Not a world traveler so ignorant to many cultures from first hand perspective, so very ignorant too much, but hope as things continue to go as they are here, perhaps the youth of Native borns will see the falsehoods that they have perhaps bought into and will return stronger?

Time will tell. Regardless, interesting paper and discussion here. Thanks for sharing.

Om Namah Shivaya

FFTW

[ShivaFan]

Namaste.

Gosh! Do I detect a inkling of pessimistic doubt regarding the future of Hinduism in the US?

Let me express my optimistic conviction of its bright future.

While Canadians may not want to immigrate to the US, there is no doubt that huge numbers of Indians do.

I just came from a beautiful park in my area, in a well-to-do area, and this park was literally "overrun" with Indians - many different associated "gatherings" (e.g. 40 or more in each "circle of friends" (and probably workmates), three such "circles", there was a full fledged cricket game going as well, smaller picnics, and all of it family oriented.

I emphasize family oriented. Hindus for the most part are so, they frown on divorce, they have children. This is also true of "Western Hindus". I myself iam a family man, and the very idea of divorce is not only abhorrent to me it is an impossible consideration.

Give it time, we will "out produce" so many of the others, and typically those with values that are abhorrent to us, they cannot hold down a marriage, they do not have children, they eventually squander their wealth.

Give it time. Hinduism has a great future in America. And as an investor who understands how money and stocks may start off seemingly small in sheer numbers, as each doubles, and doubles again, then stock splits come, and eventually critical mass takes over, and what was 2 million is suddenly four, and what was four is suddenly 12, and what was twelve is suddenly 40 million, and what was 40 is soon 200.

We have to wait and watch. Yes, just watch.

Surely it IS true, that there is the threat that Hindus will be influenced by debased values coming from Hollywood and entertainment, and fast food, and peer pressure, and maybe just the hectic pace of life.

But that isn't just true in America. It is true in India as well. I am disgusted with what I am seeing coming from Bollywood today. The pace of life is hectic now. The same issues regarding technology are now surfacing in India. The same peer pressures to "be cool", the same debase music.

All the reason to stay united and not divided. All the more reason to care for all fellow Hindus, including Westerners who are now Hindus and Western Hindus to care for and about Indian Hindus...

And for those in Mauritius. And Africa.

And even healthcare provided Canada with gun restrictions. :)

United we Stand.

Who knows, one day those Hindus in those "far away places" (which are not so far away anymore) may be the outposts of Hinduism and the preservationists who will bring Hinduism back home to India.

Time will only tell.

Om Namah Sivaya

[Anima Deorum]

Namaste Eastern Mind and ShivaFan,

I am still reading this study, and thanks, EM, for posting it. I will be interested in learning more of the Hindu rennaisance and the Indian diaspora.

ShivaFan, your observations are interesting. I also know of satsangs dedicated to guru mystics (e.g., Meher Baba). I am American and have Goddess Durga, Shri Ganesha, and Radhe Krishna on my home shrine (and images of Shiva and Saraswati). I did come to this forum after reading a book on Hinduism; and I soon visited my temple soon after. My temple has a Vedanta study group, which I am attending. We are reading a book called Kindle Life.

Those are just some thoughts...

Pranam.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté


Vannakkam:
On your map, Denver seemed high, but I don't know of many temples there. Do you know why?

I cannot answer with any degree of accuracy and can offer only conjecture , of which too much serves little purpose. That said, H1-B visa permits are 65,000 today; new laws wish to raise it to to 110,000 and then to 180,000.
So my ~conjecture~ of the inflow of more Indian culture is by way of commerce and the ability to work in the USA. Trade with India today is about $100 Billion (US).

iti śivaṁ

[Eastern Mind]

That said, H1-B visa permits are 65,000 today; new laws wish to raise it to to 110,000 and then to 180,000.


Vannakkam: Sadly, that same category of visa in Canada has led to some absurd human rights abuses. Small town restaurants, for example, unable to find locals, hire temps from overseas. They have far fewer rights than citizens, are often overworked and underpaid. I hope Canada and the US don't become new Dubais in this regard.

Aum Namasivaya