Temple Community, Personal Goals, and Cultural Divide

[Anima Deorum]

Namaste my friends,

I have been singing the chalisas, bhajans, and stutis in my temple during puja.

I asked if there were copies of the temple prayer book for sale in the gift shop, and the man behind the counter replied by saying it is in three languages (It's actually Sanskrit, transliterated into three alphabets: Hindi/Devanagari, Gujarati, and Latin). Then he asked me if I could read them, which I thought was odd (I don't imagine most devotees read Sanskrit). I told him that I couldn’t, and that’s why I wanted to take one home to study. Then he asked me if it was for a school project. I told him “no” (I've been coming to puja for two months).

Anyway, he was nice and explained that the temple is revising them, hence the shortage. He took my name and phone number and made a phone call to check on the prayer books. He said they would call me when they got some in. Hopefully, they will, as I absolutely adore our Deities and their songs.

I’m attributing the awkwardness of this social exchange to a cultural gap and the oddity of my presence at the temple. We both had a different set of social expectations that were challenged. I certainly didn’t mean to be a nuisance. He probably doesn’t know that I am learning Sanskrit and Hindi for spiritual purposes.

I’ve been going to the Advaita satsang and volunteered to do some gardening last Saturday. I met a couple Acharyas who were happy to discuss philosophy with me. Also, some other worshippers at the temple are starting to talk to me. I know we Americans don’t have the best reputation or thinking. I am personally working to curb my nearly boundless arrogance and cynicism, and to improve my sense of self. Conscious acts are never unidirectional; they are reciprocal by nature.[1] (http://hindudharmaforums.com/#_ftn1) It is easy for us Westerners to alienate and devalue other people. The most vicious weapons invariably turn on those who bear them. My thinking has turned on me. But I am working on that problem with other people and professionals.

To sum up:

1. I would like to make friends at the temple, but I have an urge to intellectualize and judge all my experiences.
2. I know I should be humble before God and others, but my impulses tell me to master everything. They will tell me anything to be indulged.
3. I want to build a sense of community, devotion, humility, service, and dharma before the Lord and my peers.

Are there any suggestions on how to approach these goals from a spiritual or communal perspective? Should I consider talking to a priest or Acharya?

Pranam.


[1] (http://hindudharmaforums.com/#_ftnref1) Consider Hegel’s discussion. Hegel, G.W.F. The Phemonology of Spirit. “Independence and Dependence of Self-Consciousness: Lordship and Bondage.” Trans. A. V. Miller. Delhi: Shri Jainendra Press, 1998. Print. §178-§196.

[Eastern Mind]

To sum up:

1. I would like to make friends at the temple, but I have an urge to intellectualize and judge all my experiences.
2. I know I should be humble before God and others, but my impulses tell me to master everything. They will tell me anything to be indulged.
3. I want to build a sense of community, devotion, humility, service, and dharma before the Lord and my peers.

Are there any suggestions on how to approach these goals from a spiritual or communal perspective? Should I consider talking to a priest or Acharya?

Pranam.



Vannakkam: To be honest, two months isn't a very long time. What's the hurry? I would suggest you slow down a little. Wanting to 'master everything' is more than a little unrealistic, in my opinion.

I would just keep going, take your time, try to not get anxious about it, volunteer for a few things, relax a bit. I don't know if speaking to a priest will help.

It might me, and others though if we knew what temple it is, or what style, because the way people interact varies considerably. Many temples don't have 'acharyas' for example.

Best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

[catnip]

Namaste Anima Deorum!

I have no advice for you, however it might be some comfort that the first time i went to a temple, the priest there also thought i was there because of school! i know its different than going there for 2 months, but, just letting you know, i guess its common for them to think you're just a student. (i haven't gone back because i'm too nervous :/ also my dad probably won't drive me, i'm almost 22 but i can't drive, and am afraid of the busses)

Om Gam Ganapataye Namah

[Banarasi]

Namaskaaram Anima ji

Having seen the uncertainties of many non-Indian bhaktas here; I think I have to add this viewpoint of a Hindu from India. I think I am not duplicating other posts. Also, some points are general and not specific to you.

First, it makes me proud that the people turning to Sanatana Dharma are usually great people and achieve real greatness (Sant Kabir, Rasa Khan, Sheikh Chinna Moulana, Jon Higgins Bhagavatar, D A Joseph … to name a few) unlike converts from SD who rarely become shining examples. Thus, regardless of whether you are Caucasian, African American, Native American etc., you should be aware that you are following in the footsteps of great people. However, it is understandable that there may be Hindus who feel suspicious due the history – I am NOT referring to the people in this website, but new visitors to the temple may be confused for other “scholars” who try to trivialize our history. Thus, I am extremely pained to see bad experiences where people like you feel like an outsider. I hope this changes fast and you continue to visit the temples.

Second, and related to the first point, the temples outside India ( I have been to temples in only 2-3 countries and will only refer to the ones in USA), are managed and operated in a way that the locals are made welcome and while this is good, some aspects may be diluted. I am sure that the bhakts here who have visited Murugan Temples during festival time in India would understand what I mean. I - used to feel extremely intimidated going to the temples (especially seeing my father almost collapsing after going into a trance in the Kalasamharamoorthy temple) until my mother explained to me that everything is all right and bhakts cannot control themselves after a certain stage. Once you are comfortable, you can also plunge right in.

My point above is this. Don’t you some day, want to visit temples in India too that have been associated with great bhakts and their divine energy is still manifest and be one of them? If so, you would have to get an understanding of the way the bhakts feel/felt. Those in US, have a great opportunity where the transition is eased by many temples that have less busy pujaris and helpful people who will guide you. As an example, suppose you visit Pandharpur temple in Maharashtra – home to a great many bhakts till this day and very charming stories of Panduranga’s personal affection for the bhakts and you see people “knocking their heads” on the shrine. Your experience would be much better if you understand their feelings and participate. I am not saying that the attitude of “this is not my way and I don’t care since my connection is personal” is wrong but IMHO, following the tradition as best as you can would be to your advantage (after all, the traditions exist for a reason). If it makes you feel better, India has a great variety of traditions and many Indians would feel the same way as you in a tradition different from our own. Continuing with the example, you may meet random strangers who fall at your feet as they feel that you are blessed since Panduranga has summoned you to Pandharpur and any Indian new to Pandharpur would also feel confused at first. Thus, please visit the temples, try to be respectful of the customs, follow the excellent guidelines posted in this site and after sometime, you would worry less about fitting in and your experiences would become increasingly more joyful.

Third, I think it is a good idea to be accompanied an Indian person for the first 1-2 visits and ask them for things that appear confusing. Either they will know or direct you to someone who does.

Last (and the most difficult for me to articulate), is to use the internet and understand the stories of the bhakts associated with the deities. Usually, this would give an idea of some traditions. This is relevant for specific temples like the Shri Venkatachalapathy Temple in Pittsburgh - not true of most temples in USA as they are usually not specific and try to cater to all traditions.
For example, consider the famous incident in the life of Poonthanam ( a great bhakt in the Advaitic tradition) and I am sure, you would understand his situation at some point in your life. The details of the story are here http://www.haindavakeralam.com/hkpage.aspx?PageID=16941&SKIN=D (http://www.haindavakeralam.com/hkpage.aspx?PageID=16941&SKIN=D)

The gist is that Poonthanam was a malayali bhakt and liked to visit the Guruvayurappan temple and read the sahastranaamam. However, not being literate in Sanskrit, he used a malayali transliteration (you know where this is heading). In the sixth shlokam, instead of :
“Aprameyo Hrishikeshah PadmanabhoAmaraprabhuhu” the transliteration read as
“Aprameyo Hrishikeshah Padmanabhomaraprabhuhu” as once the words are joined in Sanskrit, the transliteration in Malayalam would have been easy to miss.
The priest (Narayana Bhttar, who was also a great scholar and bhakt who composed the Narayaneeyam – 1000 shlokas regarding Bhagavatam) was offended and told him to either read properly or not read at all. This distressed Lord Guruvayurappan who scolded the scholarly priest and expressed his preference for Poonthanam’s bhakti rather than Bhattar’s vibhakti (knowledge). The words of Guruvayurappan are charming indeed! “If I am the lord of Amaras, I am also the lord of Marams (trees in malayalam and Tamil) and I will understand it as such and you need not come in between a true devotee and me!”

Then, we can conclude that we are free to do as we please but I think the real lesson is to have the frame of mind of Poonthanam. He was always respectful and never questioned the temple authority and tried his best to sincerely follow all the traditions laid down by the masters. In this way we remain humble in a true sense and would not fall prey to madham (too much pride and a sense of superiority). This is what God wants from us. I firmly feel that knowing such stories would make your visit to temples more fun and involving.

In the last example, I should add that according to my knowledge, this is true for prayers/bhajans only rather than vedic chants where we should be careful as they are not prayers in the usual sense and if we define the deities improperly, we would deserve punishment.

I am sorry for this very long post. I am new here and eager to participate and hopefully, my experiences are helpful.

Jai Sitaram, Banarasi

[Anima Deorum]

Thank you Eastern Mind and Catnip,

I will continue to go to my temple and try to relax more, which is something I have been working on for a bit now.

Regarding the impulse to master the world:

You are right, EM, that such an expectation (that one could understand, control, or justifiably judge everything) would be unrealistic. However, the ego's urge to attempt this impossibility is quite real. Examples are abundant in the fields of science, philosophy, and religion. Personally, I understand that any such notion is folly and that indulging such an impulse is foolish, but it is still there and disguises itself in various forms of thought and behavior.

In fact, this misunderstanding of the self's place in the world constitutes Western civilization's tragedy: celebratory hubris. This crisis is not limited to the material sphere, but extends into the intellectual and spiritual as well. But I may be wrong with this theory.

Pranam.

[NayaSurya]

I also want to say patience and a great heap of humility is needed when beginning.

Time, time, time, it's the great equalizer. In time, devotion shines through and it won't matter if you are purple polka dotted. They will only see your humble devotion to Bhagavan.

The song book: We have also had a similar problem as i attend a special night of mantras to Mahadeva and it was all printed out in books but mostly in Tamil or Hindi.

You know what we did as a family?

We made our own books! lol complete with english translations and true meanings for my children. We want each one of them to know what we are saying/singing or chanting each night.

I even went as far as placed the stories for the individual pieces such as for the Shiva Mahimna Stotra of Pushpadanta. The story of how he came to write it is very wonderful and good for all of us to know what spurred such a beautiful moment of devotion.

Get the names of each thing being sang/chanted and then print them out the way you need to see it. It was a wonderful family activity that just brought us that much closer to Mahadeva.

Now, sometimes in our group meetings, we see others peeking over to our book to find where we are at (it's easy to get lost if you have a lil one trying to get up and run into Mahadeva). They really love how we took the time to put them together for our children.

[Believer]

Namaste NS,

We made our own books! lol complete with english translations and true meanings for my children. We want each one of them to know what we are saying/singing or chanting each night.

Get the names of each thing being sang/chanted and then print them out the way you need to see it. It was a wonderful family activity that just brought us that much closer to Mahadeva.
We can all do things for ourselves, but the key is to also get the next generation grounded in dharma/bhakti, and what you are doing should be an example for the rest of us!

Pranam.

[Anima Deorum]

Namaste my friends,

Today at prasad, I asked to sit with a man and his wife and mother. They seemed friendly enough. He and I began talking. Eventually I asked him what all the food people offered to the Deities was used for. He didn’t understand, so I rephrased the question. His wife told me that it is distributed as prasad, which I suppose I already knew. Sometimes I ask dumb questions because I can be absent-minded, as some might say.

The man said he had seen me coming to the temple and that it was good. I nodded. Generally, I do not thank people for their judgments of me anymore. I asked him his name and he told me his last name, saying that it was common, and that I surely had heard it before, and that it was like Smith or Johnson. I gave him a quick explanation of how such names as Smith were purchased as titles based on a family’s trade in the late middle ages by the middle class. He listened impatiently for a minute. I told him my first name, which is Tom.

He told me of a Hare Krishna temple in the area. He said I would “like it more” there.

He also said that, while there would be a celebration at the temple coming up for Sri Krishna’s birthday, I should go to the ISKON temple for it. I politely winded the conversation down and thanked him. Fortunately, they left. Oddly enough, the conversation didn’t bother me as much as I had thought it might.

Then my friend from the gift shop asked to sit next to me, and we had a lovely, genuine conversation, and we smiled. Actually, the men at the gift shop have been very warm, after a couple minor miscommunications.

So, I can’t really say I’m surprised at this man’s tacit audacity and presumption. It’s certainly nothing new to me, coming from academia. I thank the gods that I am at my temple of worship and couldn’t be happier! And no one can change my mind about that.

I had never spoken to this man before. I wonder how he thought he knew so much about me. The truth is he didn’t care to. His message was “go away.” At first I was sad, but I know in my heart that Radha and Krishna love my being there. And of course, all the other dear Gods I love to sing and pray to.

This isn’t so much a request for feedback (my heart has the true answers) as it is a report. But part of me is sad and insulted. If I would like things more elsewhere, then why do the Gods have me where I am?

Pranam.

Jai Radha Krishna

[Believer]

Namaste,

So, I can’t really say I’m surprised at this man’s tacit audacity and presumption.
Please accept my apologies on behalf of this person who sounded rude to you.

Now the real story. Many Indians that I run into are not as polished as the Westerners. Some would blurt out whatever comes to their mind without considering how it would sound to the listener or how it would be received - hurtful or harmless. Having said all that I would presume that the reason he suggested the ISKCON temple for your Janamashatami visit is because they have more Westerners and all the non-puja related things are conducted in English, and he thought that you might feel more at home there. As I understand how the brains of 'my homies' work, he was not trying to chase you away, but just trying to be helpful by giving you, what he thought was a valuable suggestion. Please don't feel bad about this experience as this person did not have any negative thoughts about you in his heart. It was just the approach that put you off. You must transcend that to keep your sanity and keep going back to that temple.

Pranam.

[Sudas Paijavana]

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[Jeffery D. Long]

Namaste!

Believer's words are wise and correct. In fact I love it that I know exactly where I stand when I am with Indians. More so than with my "fellow" westerners. There is no pretense. But this also means people can be pretty blunt. We non-Indians need to get over ourselves sometimes. It does feel weird to be told by a new Indian member of our local temple "Welcome to our temple!" A temple where I have been a member for over a decade, where I have taught children and led discussion groups for adults, and on whose governing board I have served. The intent is pure, so any offense I would take would just be my ego getting in the way. This will all pass in a few generations.

[Anima Deorum]

Namaste my friends,

And thank you, Believer and Sudhas. First, let me apologize to referring to the above as a "report" rather than an update on my personal experience. Obviously, I do seek feedback, even when I am not aware. Also, I have presumed to know what was in this man's heart. My gut rarely steers me wrong on situations; yet my mind almost invariably confuses me.

I will work on not worrying about the others.

I probably misinterpreted this exchange.

Neither fact is accidental. Praise the Gods.

PS: I bought a book on Saraswati. It has hymns, shlokas, and prayers to this dear Goddess. It even has an invocation:

Chaturbhujam Chandravaranam Chaturanan Vallabham
Avahyami Vag-devim Veena-pustak Dharineem (2)

Pranam.

[Believer]

Namaste,

It does feel weird to be told by a new Indian member of our local temple "Welcome to our temple!" A temple where I have been a member for over a decade, where I have taught children and led discussion groups for adults, and on whose governing board I have served. The intent is pure, so any offense I would take would just be my ego getting in the way. This will all pass in a few generations.
Ha Ha! ' Welcome to our temple'; again the person is being welcoming and friendly, without having even the slightest idea that it could sound very offensive to the person being welcomed, since he has been part of this so called 'our temple' for a number of years. I am sorry such things happen but you have to forgive 'my homies' and move on. There is no ill will there, just a lack of, or more like a total absence of inter-personal verbal engagement training.

And while we are on that subject, Sudas, your words, 'Return to the temple' don't sound too cool man! Try not to order people around by using such language, use something like 'I would suggest that you keep visiting this temple'. Write your posts in a word file, polish them to make sure they don't sound offensive and then do a copy and paste to post them here. A suggestion that sounds like an order is bound to cause a negative reaction. When you get to be my age, you would be excused by people for being cantankerous and for ordering them around. :) Till then be gentle and respectful.

Pranam.

[Sudas Paijavana]

And while we are on that subject, Sudas, your words, 'Return to the temple' don't sound too cool man! Try not to order people around by using such language, use something like 'I would suggest that you keep visiting this temple'. Write your posts in a word file, polish them to make sure they don't sound offensive and then do a copy and paste to post them here. A suggestion that sounds like an order is bound to cause a negative reaction. When you get to be my age, you would be excused by people for being cantankerous and for ordering them around. :) Till then be gentle and respectful.


Namaste,

It is safe for me to state that Anima didn't see it as an "order". He most likely took it as comforting for he did thank not just you but me as well. My post was meant to be succinct as possible so it could come off as condoling and straightforward as it could. Now, both you and I don't know how it was really perceived by the OP, so it isn't our place to state that it was "bound to cause a negative reaction". Hopefully, Anima can confirm your sentiments upon his next logging in, even though this is of minute importance nonetheless. Devotees sometimes tend to think too much about people around them, when they should prioritize their concentration upon the Devatas instead. Till then, let us not come to conclusions and let it be, for respect to the OP was never in question. Shanti, brother. Shanti.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste my friends,

And thank you, Believer and Sudhas. First, let me apologize to referring to the above as a "report" rather than an update on my personal experience. Obviously, I do seek feedback, even when I am not aware. Also, I have presumed to know what was in this man's heart. My gut rarely steers me wrong on situations; yet my mind almost invariably confuses me.

I will work on not worrying about the others.

I probably misinterpreted this exchange.

Neither fact is accidental. Praise the Gods.

PS: I bought a book on Saraswati. It has hymns, shlokas, and prayers to this dear Goddess. It even has an invocation:

Chaturbhujam Chandravaranam Chaturanan Vallabham
Avahyami Vag-devim Veena-pustak Dharineem (2)

Pranam.


Vannakkam: My initial take on your encounter was that the person had very poor English. I have to keep that in mind a lot of the time. Sometimes it's really that simple. He may not have understood a word you were saying, and his own command of the language may have been so poor that whatever he could say would be rude. Many people, until you get quite familiar, are quite ashamed to openly admit not knowing a language. I've had this type of personal misunderstanding quite often, and usually it's my wrong assumptions that caused it.

Also, politeness, and rudeness themselves often shift according to culture. So it's good to have that in the back of your mind as well.

Best wishes in developing a fruitful temple attending habit.

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Ha Ha! ' Welcome to our temple';

Vannakkam: I enjoy similar stuff too at times. It never bothers me, because you're right. It's just the intent. But I welcome people as well. Just two days ago, somebody came along who happened to be entering as I was, and they said (usually a person doesn't) "This is my first time here." So yeah, you say 'hello' or 'Namaste' or something.

Aum Namasivaya

[Anima Deorum]

Thank you for your kind feedback, everyone.

Pranam.