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nirotu
16 March 2007, 04:40 PM
Hi all:

Do mystical sensing and experiential spirituality interfere with or dilute a faith or a belief one has grown up with? Although, mysticism is not affected by faith, the faith or a belief can get affected by mystical and experiential truth. This being my view, I invite those with differing views.

Therefore, do you agree if a faith has any place in mystical journey?


Blessings,

satay
16 March 2007, 11:29 PM
namaste,
In my opinion, mystical experience strengthens faith in the divine.

Agnideva
17 March 2007, 09:42 AM
Namaste,

For me, faith and mysticism go together. Mysticism has allowed me to understand the language/symbolism of faith, and appreciate faith more fully. At the same time, faith has provided the context through which I relate to mystical experience.

OM,
A.

Jigar
17 March 2007, 12:40 PM
Namaste,
A few years back I had subsequent mystical dreams of higher enlightenment. I may never know without psychological advise the truth. It involved a choice in religious struggle, love life and eternity. The experiences I felt in these dreams are unimaginably unequiable. Thus resulting in a strong undoubted faith in a supreme being.

Maste Nam,
Jigar

nirotu
19 March 2007, 09:42 PM
For me, it depends on how you define faith. Actual experience with the Divine is transforming, while rote faith may not be. But the word faith could mean what you develop from that experience.

If you are defining mysticism as actual experience and faith as what was taught you as a child, I would agree with you that actual experience is more transforming than instruction and can actually change beliefs.

Dear MG:

This is exactly my point! You are correct. If a child who has faith in his/her biological father and believes in Him as the father, no matter how hard a mystic elaborates on the nature of True Father as being “God the Father”, that child would still believe in her/his own biological father as the father. Thus, the faith with which the child is brought up has hindered that child from knowing the true father in heaven. Similarly, among adults faith binds one to certain religion and its faith certainly can impede ones progress in knowing the true Father.

Therefore, mystical knowingness of the father overcomes these boundaries set forth by religions and their dogmas.



Blessings,

nirotu
19 March 2007, 09:46 PM
For me, faith and mysticism go together. Mysticism has allowed me to understand the language/symbolism of faith, and appreciate faith more fully. At the same time, faith has provided the context through which I relate to mystical experience.

OM,
A.

Dear Agnideva:

That is well said but one has to remember that when the two go hand in hand, human mind can exaggerate and amplify faith to mimic a true mystical experience. A true mystical experience brings such a degree of knowing-ness that there is no need left for any belief or faith or other metal activity.

When someone recommends a good dish in a restaurant, a customer eagerly awaits the dish with a belief in its delicious taste. But, when he actually tastes the dish, there is no room left for any belief or faith in that dish. When Jesus Christ said, “I know my Father”, he did not need any faith to establish that belief. He just knows it. Similarly, a mystic simply knows his connection with the divine that did not require faith to arrive at that state.

Basically, faith is more of human activity where as mystical experience is more of the soul. Because spiritual journey is the only bridge between the two, it makes all the more sense to emphasize the need of undertaking the spiritual journey rather than worry about fulfilling Karmic debt!

Blessings,

nirotu
19 March 2007, 09:48 PM
Namaste,
A few years back I had subsequent mystical dreams of higher enlightenment. I may never know without psychological advise the truth. It involved a choice in religious struggle, love life and eternity. The experiences I felt in these dreams are unimaginably unequiable. Thus resulting in a strong undoubted faith in a supreme being.

Maste Nam,
Jigar

Dear Jigar:

I like to think dreaming is still an unconscious state. Mystics have super conscious state all the time. I am not sure if mystical dreams can be considered as a state of higher enlightenment. While, one’s faith may be shaken by mystical encounter but it can never be the other way around. Well, that is just my opinion!

Blessings,

atanu
19 March 2007, 11:10 PM
Dear MG:

This is exactly my point! You are correct. If a child who has faith in his/her biological father and believes in Him as the father, no matter how hard a mystic elaborates on the nature of True Father as being “God the Father”, that child would still believe in her/his own biological father as the father. Thus, the faith with which the child is brought up has hindered that child from knowing the true father in heaven. Similarly, among adults faith binds one to certain religion and its faith certainly can impede ones progress in knowing the true Father.

Therefore, mystical knowingness of the father overcomes these boundaries set forth by religions and their dogmas.
Blessings,

Namaste Nirotu,

It is said that one has to unlearn all that has been learned to know Him.

I feel I am agreement with you. I would, however, point out that faith also has components of Sattwa, Rajas, and Tamas. Sattwik faith cannot be that binding. On the other hand, some values acquired in this life and many of the ingrained instincts might need cleaning/discarding.

Regards,


Om Namah Shivayya