namahsivaya
09 June 2013, 03:01 PM
Namaste,
Lately I have gone back to studying the Bhagavad Gita. Through my initial readings throughout the years, the main message I got was to dedicate the fruits of all of my actions to Sri Krishna. That is how we can live in society and perform our duties and still reach Bhagwan, by not becoming attached to the fruits of our actions but offering them to Bhagwan.
For example, I as a student try to do well on exams and make good grades, but I don't do so for myself. I try to make good grades because it pleases Bhagwan.
But from my recent readings of the Gita and also from reading these forums, the idea of "the doer" and complete surrender to Bhagwan have caught my mind. Particularly in Chapter 18, Sri Krishna talks about the agent, the doer, etc. This was discussed at length in this thread: http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=10982
But there are still many things that I am not clear about
That previous thread about the doer was also restricted to the Vishishadvaita view, but I am seeking other interpretations as well, since I am more of an Advaitan.
The main point that I got out of that thread, per Vishishadvaita, is that the individual jiva is not the only doer. The point is that the jiva is dependent upon other factors, such as the body, senses, prana, karmas, etc. as well as most importantly Bhagwan. Since we are not the only doer and we depend on Bhagwan, would it be correct to say that all actions occur through the consent and will of Bhagawan?
The main thing that I am confused about is how our individual free will relates to the will of God, the will of Bhagwan. A poster on the other thread said that we have to align/unite our will with the will of God. But how do we know what the will of Bhagwan is? Would it be correct to say that the will of Bhagwan is for us to glorify Bhagwan through all our actions? This would relate back to what I wrote earlier, where we can glorify Bhagwan through what seems like mundane activities by not becoming attached to the fruits of our actions and offering them to Bhagwan.
This part makes sense to me in theory, that we should glorify Bhagwan in everything we do by constantly thinking of and remembering Bhagwan and seeing Bhagwan everywhere. This would be like becoming Krishna-conscious.
But what I can't grasp is how this relates to the concept of the doer and the will of Bhagwan. For example, if I wake up and go brush my teeth, would it be correct to say that the jiva is controlling the body to brush its teeth (since I am not the body) and the jiva in turn is being controlled by Bhagwan? Is it not correct that the body and the jiva are tools/instruments of Bhagwan? Therefore, ultimately, it is Bhagwan who is controlling the body to brush its teeth?
The reason I use a mundane example like brushing my teeth is because I am trying to figure out how exactly to apply these teachings of Sri Krishna in my everyday life. Again, I as a student strive to do well in school because it is my duty and it pleases Bhagwan. But what about really mundane, everyday things? If it is ultimately Bhagwan who is controlling the body to brush its teeth, would it be correct to say that it is the will of Bhagwan that the body's teeth are brushed? This would make sense in a way because the body should be kept clean and healthy, or am I going too far in this thinking?
What if "I" decide not to brush my teeth? Who is making that decision? Would that be an example of the jiva acting foolishly because the jiva does not recognize its dependence upon Bhagwan? What if "I" decide to do something evil or to be rude to other people? Surely it can't be said that Bhagwan is the doer of those actions! So how does the individual free will relate to Bhagwan being the ultimate doer? After all, is Bhagwan not the "doer" along with the jiva, and the other factors such as the senses, prana, etc.?
After thinking a lot about this I thought I realized that we must strive to be Krishna-conscious, to glorify Bhagwan, worship Bhagwan, see Bhagwan everywhere, and dedicate everything to Bhagwan. That is the essence of surrender, and when we are Krishna-conscious we truly are the instruments/tools of Bhagwan. Yet, how can we be the tools of Bhagwan, how can we be controlled by Him, when we ourselves are the ultimate deciders of what we do and how we act?
I am quite confused about all of this and I realize this might be a very confusing and disorganized post, but I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and come to greater realizations.
Jai Sri Krishna!
Lately I have gone back to studying the Bhagavad Gita. Through my initial readings throughout the years, the main message I got was to dedicate the fruits of all of my actions to Sri Krishna. That is how we can live in society and perform our duties and still reach Bhagwan, by not becoming attached to the fruits of our actions but offering them to Bhagwan.
For example, I as a student try to do well on exams and make good grades, but I don't do so for myself. I try to make good grades because it pleases Bhagwan.
But from my recent readings of the Gita and also from reading these forums, the idea of "the doer" and complete surrender to Bhagwan have caught my mind. Particularly in Chapter 18, Sri Krishna talks about the agent, the doer, etc. This was discussed at length in this thread: http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=10982
But there are still many things that I am not clear about
That previous thread about the doer was also restricted to the Vishishadvaita view, but I am seeking other interpretations as well, since I am more of an Advaitan.
The main point that I got out of that thread, per Vishishadvaita, is that the individual jiva is not the only doer. The point is that the jiva is dependent upon other factors, such as the body, senses, prana, karmas, etc. as well as most importantly Bhagwan. Since we are not the only doer and we depend on Bhagwan, would it be correct to say that all actions occur through the consent and will of Bhagawan?
The main thing that I am confused about is how our individual free will relates to the will of God, the will of Bhagwan. A poster on the other thread said that we have to align/unite our will with the will of God. But how do we know what the will of Bhagwan is? Would it be correct to say that the will of Bhagwan is for us to glorify Bhagwan through all our actions? This would relate back to what I wrote earlier, where we can glorify Bhagwan through what seems like mundane activities by not becoming attached to the fruits of our actions and offering them to Bhagwan.
This part makes sense to me in theory, that we should glorify Bhagwan in everything we do by constantly thinking of and remembering Bhagwan and seeing Bhagwan everywhere. This would be like becoming Krishna-conscious.
But what I can't grasp is how this relates to the concept of the doer and the will of Bhagwan. For example, if I wake up and go brush my teeth, would it be correct to say that the jiva is controlling the body to brush its teeth (since I am not the body) and the jiva in turn is being controlled by Bhagwan? Is it not correct that the body and the jiva are tools/instruments of Bhagwan? Therefore, ultimately, it is Bhagwan who is controlling the body to brush its teeth?
The reason I use a mundane example like brushing my teeth is because I am trying to figure out how exactly to apply these teachings of Sri Krishna in my everyday life. Again, I as a student strive to do well in school because it is my duty and it pleases Bhagwan. But what about really mundane, everyday things? If it is ultimately Bhagwan who is controlling the body to brush its teeth, would it be correct to say that it is the will of Bhagwan that the body's teeth are brushed? This would make sense in a way because the body should be kept clean and healthy, or am I going too far in this thinking?
What if "I" decide not to brush my teeth? Who is making that decision? Would that be an example of the jiva acting foolishly because the jiva does not recognize its dependence upon Bhagwan? What if "I" decide to do something evil or to be rude to other people? Surely it can't be said that Bhagwan is the doer of those actions! So how does the individual free will relate to Bhagwan being the ultimate doer? After all, is Bhagwan not the "doer" along with the jiva, and the other factors such as the senses, prana, etc.?
After thinking a lot about this I thought I realized that we must strive to be Krishna-conscious, to glorify Bhagwan, worship Bhagwan, see Bhagwan everywhere, and dedicate everything to Bhagwan. That is the essence of surrender, and when we are Krishna-conscious we truly are the instruments/tools of Bhagwan. Yet, how can we be the tools of Bhagwan, how can we be controlled by Him, when we ourselves are the ultimate deciders of what we do and how we act?
I am quite confused about all of this and I realize this might be a very confusing and disorganized post, but I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and come to greater realizations.
Jai Sri Krishna!