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hinduism♥krishna
19 June 2013, 10:59 AM
Namaste, dear devotees !
Here is my small effort to prove superiority of 'sayujya / kaivalya ' mukti.

In hindu scripture bhagavatam there are many verses indicating unity of bramhan(saguna form krishna) and jeeva.

In it, lord Krishna supreme bramhan itself reveals the secret of four types of liberation and among them which is the highest.

sant eknath verily explained which is supeme liberation and why devotees don't desire any liberation. We must trust on those who are self realized. Sant eknath was free from three gunas and most imp he was devotee of lord krishna. So he is a perfect and ideal vaishnawa to explain bhagavatam.


( explained by sant eknath, topmost maharashtrian devotee of lord krishna who spread naam sankirtana of krishna in all over the india. He was realised one and from the order of dattatreya avatar of hari he wrote commentry on 11th skanda of bhagavatam most imp canto).


In bhagavat puran, Lord krishna says: My devotees surely, without mistake come to me only.

Those who have some personal aim, some selfish desire in the worship they do for me, have
to remain satisfied with the fruit of their desire which is as a Law given to them by me. But those who are unselfish reach total unity with me.

I always remove the desires of my devotees by fulfilling them once for all and make them
unselfish and then only I, the Supreme Person take them to my abode.

O Uddhava, it was in this way that fulfilling the sexual desires of Gopis I made them free of
that bondage, the desire which binds everybody, and gave them Sayujjya Liberation.

Without verifying whether I practised debauchery with them or I killed out their very desires, ignorant people criticize my behaviour and accuse me of adultery.

If my devotees like Salokata Liberation I take them to Vaikuntha. If my devotee wants
Sameepata, I have the pleasure of being their friend.

O Uddhava, as I like you because I want to talk friendly private things, sweet things in my
mind with you, so, similarly I love that devotee to have any time the sweetest dialogue.

If my devotee wants Saroopata, I give him four arms and give him the lotus etc and make his
as beautiful as dark cloud,

I give him crown, ear-rings, waist-band, yellow apparel with golden border, rings around
ankles, Kaustubh gem.

The shape of the body, virtues with their signs, courage, valour, serenity are also given,
which are similar to my ornaments, and he appears just like me in all respects.

If Laxmi, my spouse would look at us both, she would not be able to recognize me separately. My servants stop in their service because they cannot find out who is the devotee and who is the Lord -, myself.

The attendant who holds umbrella over my head is also confused if my devotee is with me,as to who is his Lord and who is the devotee. And the man who uses feathered fan (Chawri)
cannot make out whom he has to serve.

Brahma and other deities come to bow before me but they also cannot identify me and this
devotee.

We cannot know which is the first candle and which is the second candle lit by the flame of
one candle, similarly when the devotee attains SAROOPATA (identical appearance), others
cannot make out me separately.

Just as the image in the mirror being exactly similar to the object in front of it, we feel that
the image is itself the object, Saroopata is such similarity!

(Though the Lord gives this Saroopata to the devotee, he does not give him the Shreevatsa
sign, which is the symbol of the kick of the Brahmin Bhrugu).

The Lord Vishnu says – I have no power to give that imprint of the foot of the Brahmin on my chest to others. Only Brahmins can do so. If the devotee holds with faith in the heart, the feet of the Brahmin, he will get the sign by the grace of the Brahmin.

In this Saroopata state, the only difference is “Shreevatsa” imprint. He who has this is the Lord and the other is the devotee.

Though “Saroopata” state is gained there is still the notion of duality as “This is God and
That is his devotee”.


So as long as this notion remains in the mind of the devotee, the term Saroopata is not yet fully applicable. So long as the consciousness does not grasp the essential unity, the devotee
does not enjoy the highest bliss, the highest joy.

So wise devotee therefore does not seek only Saroopata. He prays for the final state of
Sayujjyata. I know the details of this extra ordinary state and now I shall tell you about it.

This ecstasy of this state is only known by myself. O Uddhava, I shall tell you!

Though the bodies of the devotee and the God are identical with each other, there is in the mind of the devotee, a sense of “I am” and “the God is separate from me”. So, wise people do not give much value to Saroopata”.

My devotees do not touch duality. They become one with me and that is itself the true and
highest worship of Me.

The devotees and the God are one and only one, eternally, ever perfectly united, but those
who create a sense of duality, are really to be considered as without devotion and bound by
Maya.

The categories of devotees are only within the field of Maya and only those who worship
me being united and undivided from me, attain Sayujjyata.

Sayujjyata is for them who feel same sympathy for the king and beggar

He who considers his body as false as our own shadow, seemingly attached to the body, and is not attached to it, reaches this state.

The shadow is born together with us, and is always with us, but generally, nobody feels
proud and says – ‘This is my shadow’. Similarly, one who is not disturbed by what happens
to his physical body reaches this Sayujjyata.

O Uddhava, please understand that he, faithfully, and devotedly worships me dropping all
his attachments to objects of senses.

This state can be reached only by a person, who does not see I-ness in his body, and You-
ness in any other Being.

O Uddhava, my consciousness and his consciousness are equally vast, and that is why he is
having Sayujjyata.

He has no desire that his body should look like Lord Vishnu. He knows that the body of Lord
Vishnu and his own body are unreal, and, therefore, he does not desire Saroopata.

If we ourselves think about this matter, we realize that any physical body as such is
everywhere unreal. Then where is the scope for similarity of appearance between man and
God? And how will any wise man pray for it?

When this state is achieved, the person does not find any place empty, where Brahman is
not. The definition of Sayujjyata is to see ourselves everywhere in every creature.

Such a person looks at thousands and thousands of figures and bodies by which the world is filled, but realizes that all this is within him, and he is unbroken, continuous universal
Atman.

One who feels that occupying everything in and out is himself, he is the Atman of all the
living and the non-living in all creatures, finds that this highest state is living with him in his
house.

Only the man, who has the concept that he is singly occupying the entire world without division can reach this state.

In short, I give my devotees everything that my devotees ask or wish for whatever they want
according to their natural thinking. So, as described, my devotee attains all the four
liberations.

There are other devotees also whom I love, whose power of devotional involvement is such
that they are always indulgent selflessly in my worship.

These great devotees do not care about the three types of devotion, in which the devotee is
in difficulty, or the devotee is inquisitive about Me or the devotee wants to achieve the
human perfections. They simply, without any motive and with great love always worship me.

They do not desire the stages of liberation known as Salokata, Sameepata, Saroopata and
even Sayujjyata but only selflessly worship Me and this is the real devotion.

The effect of worship is very miraculous. By love more love is created towards me and
every moment the joy of love goes on increasing.

Such a devotee, in the ecstasy, gives up his whole life but his trust in me is so great that he
does not care a bit, his mind is never sorry about anything given up in this way.

His confirmed faith makes him think that he himself and Me, as Atman and as God are permeating in every creature. This faith is never moved, is never spoiled though others may
make efforts to create doubt distrust and disbelief in him.

He is so great in his attitude that all men and women are for him, My living images and he has so much respect for Me dwelling in all these creatures that he offers salutations most humbly even to dogs and swine.

These devotees simply discard liberation, freedom at any level in the extreme force of their
emotions for me.

However great the calamity may be, they are not afraid, nor do they request others for any
help because they believe that all these calamities are nothing, faced with the din of the name
of Rama.

Such a devotee calmly continues to recite my name with love even if there is total catastrophe or the Earth may collapse before his eyes.

When I see such loyal one-pointed love I am won over by him and without considering his
caste or status I run to his home to meet him.

Such devotees have not to go to Vaikuntha. I make their home Vaikuntha itself. Then the
dawn of knowledge arises there and groups of saints begin to gather.

Upanishads make friends with them and Religion comes to stay happily with them. Further
such great devotees like Narada, Sanaka etc have great love for their Lord.

Such devotees loudly proclaim the importance of repeating the name of God, sing about my
fame with great love and as the name of Rama is ruling in their mind the troubles arising out
of pain and pleasure do not remain there.

When there is such devotion, the Atmic bliss runs with love towards them and forgets to
leave their house.

Every blemish which comes and tries to spoil their character actually becomes their virtue.
This is the complete happiness in my devotion.

All the four liberations come to serve them in their life and whatever objects these devotees
use or experience become part of the Sayujjyata, which is their servant.

Though all powers and all pleasures and capacities become their housemaids such devotee
does not turn their attention to them, their whole faith is in the devotion only.

I also love these devotees and whenever such devotee looks I myself become the object of
their sight.

I become the speech of such devotee. I live in and out of his speech in the form of the content
and the meaning of their sentences.

He may play with pebbles. I become the pebbles and I release from bondage of this worldly life of the man towards whom this devotee looks with grace and kindness.

I shower happiness wherever he glances and I myself uplift and take him to the highest state
that man about whom he intends to do so.

Even if such devotee is faced with slight nuisance I jump to remove that trouble. Not only
this but I release from bondage those people who recite the name of that devotee.

My care about these devotees is like the love of a mother for her little child. I do not hesitate
to do any work to serve them.

As the mother pampers her child I also do so in case of my devotees. I like their love for me
and various offerings in the performances of worship are not so important to me.

I am the body and he is my Atman. I like a devotee who loves me and all the greatness of
devotion reaches its limit in that love.

I love such devotee that I become a fortress to protect him from death.

To protect such devotees from Death and destruction, I guide them towards the path of
realisation of Absolute Brahman and bring them to the state of Unity with me so that they live
in the bliss of the Atman.

Thank you. ♥

hinduism♥krishna
21 June 2013, 10:21 PM
Shri hari

In second adhyaya of bhavatam mahatmya ,

Narada muni says:

सत्यदित्रीयुगे बोधवैरग्यी मुक्तीसाधकी
कली तु केवला भक्तिर्ब्रम्हसायुज्यकरीनी ।।

Meaning =
In satya dvapar and treta yuga there were knowledge and detachment to attain liberation but in kaliyuga only bhakti(devotion) can attain bramhasayujya mukti.

From this we came to know that bhakti is not the highest goal and sayijyata is the final supreme state .Devotion of lord krishna in oneness with him is the highest. Because it can attain highest bliss bramhan.

Thank you ♥

ॐ हरी ।।

कृष्णभक्त
24 June 2013, 12:34 PM
Shri hari

In second adhya of bhavatam mahatmya



Narada muni says:

सत्यदित्रीयुगे बोधवैरग्यी मुक्तीसाधकी
कली तु केवला भक्तिर्ब्रम्हसायुज्यकरीनी ।।

Meaning =
In satya dvapar and treta yuga there were knowledge and detachment to attain liberation but in kaliyuga only bhakti(devotion) can attain bramhasayujya mukti.


This proves that goal of bhakti is sayujya mukti.

So ultimately out of four liberation sayujya mukti (oneness with lord krishna) is the highest.

Devotion of lord krishna in oneness with him is the highest.cuz it can attain highest bliss bramhan.



ॐ हरी ।।

yes i agree with you

om namo narayana

hinduism♥krishna
30 June 2013, 04:02 AM
namste. shri hari

I m adding it as new post otherwise op will become very lengthy.

" May b this post will clear your confusion about which mukti is the highest "

Someone will say " how will be their devotion if atma and parabramhan are one? " . This que. arises because they don't know the the knowledge written in vedas and Upanishads. They are experiencing chidabhavas consciousness ( false consciousness) . Because of that consciousness , jiva is unable accept the truth that atma and parabramhan are one. Because the main function of maya is to show duality and difference between atma and parabramhan. That's why jiva cant get liberation. The real devotion is by considering oneness with parabramban. Others are not accepted by vedas and they are only through maya. Assuming difference between jiva and parabramhan is not the direct devotion. it is indirect.

" take a look at following verses "

Upanishad VIII.xii.3. It says, “This tranquil one, that is, jivatma, rising up from this body (the reference is to videhamukti) becomes one with the Brahman and is established in his own nature.” ( The words, “ is established in his own nature” clearly mean that the consciousness constituting the essence of the individual jivatmas called Atma is the same as the all pervading, infinite consciousness called " sat chit anand " Brahman.

Brhadaranyaka IV.iii.30, says, “There is not that second thing separate from it ( bramhan) that It can know." it indicates there is nothing other than bramhan and strongly indicates oneness. Oneness is the essential nature of parabramhan.

here is the conversation between supreme lord rama and his dearest devotee hanuman:
" parabramhan Lord ram clerely states sayujya mukti is the highest. ie devotion in oneness with is the highest , completely free from maya.

[ From muktika upanishada in shukla yajurveda ]

I-i-1-6. In the beautiful city of Ayodhya, in the centre of a pavilion set with gems, together with Sita, Bharata, Lakshmana and Satrughna, was Rama seated, glorified day and night by sages like Sanaka, Vasistha and Suka as well as other devotees, unchanging witness of thousands of modifications of the intellect, delighted in contemplating his own form. At the end of this Samadhi, Hanuman asked with devotion, ‘O Rama, you are the supreme being, of the nature of Sat, Chid and Ananda. I desire to know your nature truly for liberation. Please tell me how I can be released from bondage without strain.

I-i-7-14. Rama: Well asked. I shall tell you. I am well established in Vedanta.

Hanuman: What is Vedanta and where is it ?

Rama: The Vedas in all their great extent are my breath, Vedanta is well grounded in them, like oil in sesamum.

Hanuman: How many are the Vedas and how many branches do they have ? Of these what are the Upanishads ?

Rama: Vedas are four, Rig-Veda etc., many branches and Upanishads exist in them. Rig-Veda has 21 branches and Yajus has 109. Sama has 1000 and Atharva has 50. Each branch has one Upanishad. Even by reading one verse of them with devotion, one gets the status of union with me, hard to get even by sages.

I-i-15-17. Hanuman: Rama, sages speak differently: some say there is only one kind of liberation. Others say it can be got by worshipping your name and by the Taraka mantra at Kashi. Others speak of Sankhya-Yoga and Bhakti-Yoga, the enquiry into Vedanta-Vakyas etc.

I-i-18-23. Rama: Liberation is of four kinds. But the only real type is Kaivalya ( sayujya) . Anybody even though leading a wicked life, attains Salokya, not other worlds, by worshipping my name. Dying in the sacred Brahmanala in Kashi, he will get the Taraka-mantra and also liberation, without rebirth. On dying anywhere (else) in Kashi, Maheshvara will utter the Taraka-mantra in his right ear. He gets Sarupya with me as his sins are washed away.

The same is called Salokya and Sarupya. Persevering in good conduct, with mind fixed upon me, loving me as the Self of all, the twice-born gets nearer to me – This is called the three forms of liberation. Salokya, Sarupya and Samipya.

I-i-24-25. Meditating on my eternal form as prescribed by the Teacher, one will surely achieve identity with me like the insects changing into the bee. This alone is the liberation of real identity (Sayujya) yielding the bliss of Brahman.

All these four kinds of Mukti will be got by worshipping Me.

Mundaka Upanishad III.2.ix – “Anyone who knows that supreme Brahman becomes Brahman indeed."

Swesvatara Upanishad II.15 – “when one knows Brahman as Atma, i.e., knows “I am Brahman” (“the original consciousness in me is the infinite Brahman”), the Brahman which is unborn, whose nature is immutable, which is unaffected by avidya and its products and which is effulgent, one becomes freed from all bonds.”

Swesvatara Upanishad IV.17 - “Benefited by the teaching that negates the universe and discriminates between atma and anatma and reveals the unity of Jivatma and Brahman, he who knows that Brahman becomes immortal.”

Mundaka III.i.3 – “When the seeker recognizes the effulgent Sakshi as the all pervading Brahman, who, in the form of Iswara, is the creator of the universe, becomes free from punya papa, becomes taintless and attains total identity with Brahman.”

Kaivalya Upanishad 10 - “Clearly recognizing oneself to be present in all beings and clearly recognizing all beings in oneself, the seeker attains the supreme Brahman; not by any other means”. it also indicates oneness ( sayujyata) . [ lord krishna also emphasizes on this in bhagavad gita. without knowing this one can not attain supreme bramhan] …

Brhadaranyaka I.iv.10 says ‘He who thinks that Brahman is one and he is another does not know.”

Kaivalya Upanishad 4 – “Through a life of renunciation, the pure minded seekers clearly grasp the meaning of teaching of Vedanta. Having become one with the Infinite Brahman (while living), all those seekers get totally resolved into Brahman at the time of final death.”

Mundaka III.ii.4 – “The atma of the knower (of Brahman) merges in the abode that is Brahman”.

Prasna Upanishad VI.5 – “ Just as the these flowing rivers that have the sea as their goal get absorbed on reaching the sea, the sixteen constituents of the all seeing Purusha, i.e., one who has recognizes his identity with Brahman , the one who has Purusha (Brahman) as one’s goal, (the sixteen digits being the ten indriyas, the five pranas and the ahamkara) disappear on reaching Purusha (Brahman), when their nama roopa are destroyed and the one (the entity that remains undestroyed) is simply called Purusha (Brahman)”. (Depending on the context, the word, “Purusha” refers to jivatma or Iswara or Brahman).

Swetasvatara Upanishad I.11 goes on to describe the process of upasana and kramamukti. It says “If one meditates on Parameswara during life, on the fall of the physical body, the sukshma sarira goes to join Iswara (the kaaranabrahma, the macrocosmic causal body, enjoys sarva-aiswarya (all happiness, powers, etc.), and, thereafter, as aaptakaamah (i.e. with a sense of all desires being fulfilled by knowledge of identity with Brahman) becomes Brahman”


Brhadaranyaka II.iv.6 – “One who views Brahman as if having diversity in It goes from death to death.”
This clearly indicates that those who differentiates between atma and parabramhan goes continuously through chain of birth and death and cant attain parabramhan ever.

In this ways vedas upanishadas accept sayujya as the ultimate liberation .

Thank you for reading this. Jai shri govinda !
ॐ हरी गोविंद ।

Sudarshan
28 August 2013, 05:00 AM
Sayujya does not mean oneness in your sense. By very definition, sayujya is intimate union or yoking of two separate entities.

Even advaitin acharyas like Shankaracharya have not equated sayujya with advaitAnubhava which is none of the muktis you have described and actually transcends all these ideas.

The muktika upanishad appears to be a 17th or 18th century composition, and are not part of the classical upanishads. If you think other wise, provide a muktika quotation from any of the the earlier Acharyas or their successors.

hinduism♥krishna
12 September 2013, 02:16 AM
Sayujya does not mean oneness in your sense. By very definition, sayujya is intimate union or yoking of two separate entities.
Yes, sayujyata or kaivalya doesn't mean oneness of two things. It is the union of same thing. It is the merging of self in self.


The muktika upanishad appears to be a 17th or 18th century composition, and are not part of the classical upanishads. If you think other wise, provide a muktika quotation from any of the the earlier Acharyas or their successors.
Namaste, ji.

Then what about other statements from kaivalya, mundaka, prashna , mandukya Upanishads? They are also unauthentic ?

There is no question to prove muktita an unauthentic one . Because it doen't voilate any teaching of other Upanishads. Muktika Upanishads is one of the major 108 Upanishads. Its 108th one. Its the only Upanishad which gives the correct info about no. of Upanishads.
The teaching of oneness of atma and bramh remains same in all Upanishads. Any Upanishad remains genuine as long as it doesn't voilate core teachings of other major Upanishads.

Besides, mandukya Upanishads, which is the essence of all other Upanishads, starts with " ayam atma bramh " and ends with " merging of self in self "

Thank you. Hari govinda hari.

Omkara
12 September 2013, 06:46 AM
Did you read the post you were responding to? Sayujya is not advaitanubhava and is not considered so by even Shankaracharya.

Your translations of the upanishads are bogus and do not agree with translations by other advaitins.

Muktika Upanishad is fake. You cannot declare it genuine by fiat.

brahma jijnasa
12 September 2013, 07:09 AM
Namaste

sayujyata or kaivalya doesn't mean oneness of two things. It is the union of same thing. It is the merging of self in self.

You see, many times so far I told you that you are contradicting yourself in your own posts. First you say that sayujya or kaivalya is "It is the union of same thing", but immediately afterwards you say "It is the merging of self in self." which refer to two different selves.

If the self is already the self, then how can the self merge with itself? The self can not merge into itself if we are talking about one and the same self. The self can merge into the self only if we are talking about two different selves, ie jiva-atma which merges into paramatma. Otherwise it makes no sense to talk about "merging". Jiva-atma (jivatma) and paramatma are two different selves forever, eternally. Jiva-atma can merge into paramatma. This condition is called sayujya or kaivalya.

According to Monier Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary sayujya means "closely united with", kaivalya means "detachment from all other connections, detachment of the soul from matter or further transmigrations, beatitude".
So even after merging of jiva-atma into the paramatma, this jiva-atma will continue to exist as jiva-atma and he will be "closely united with" the Lord (paramatma). This condition is called sayujya or kaivalya.

Vaisnavas accept four kinds of liberation -- sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi and sārūpya. In each of these four kinds of liberation jiva-atma souls in Vaikuntha are "closely united with" The Lord and therefore each of these sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi and sārūpya may be called sayujya or kaivalya, ie sālokya is sayujya mukti, sāmīpya is sayujya mukti, ... etc. (sālokya is kaivalya mukti, sāmīpya is kaivalya mukti, ... etc.) :)

regards

brahma jijnasa
12 September 2013, 07:14 AM
Your translations of the upanishads are bogus

:D

regards

Omkara
13 September 2013, 01:47 AM
:D

regards


Seriously, there is no way to use a milder word.
:)

hinduism♥krishna
13 September 2013, 02:24 AM
Did you read the post you were responding to? Sayujya is not advaitanubhava and is not considered so by even Shankaracharya.

Your translations of the upanishads are bogus and do not agree with translations by other advaitins.

Muktika Upanishad is fake. You cannot declare it genuine by fiat.
Namaste, omkara.

I m not a shankaracharya's follower. I m a follower a sant dnyandev and sant eknath , who were great devotess of bhagavan Krishna .

If my translations are really bogus , then prove it. Don't just say they are bogus. You can disprove anything unless you dont't give any valid proof.

Thank you for taking effort to read my bogus translations.

Thank you.

Omkara
13 September 2013, 02:46 AM
Namaste, omkara.

I m not a shankaracharya's follower. I m a follower a sant dnyandev and sant eknath , who were great devotess of bhagavan Krishna .


And they said Sayujya mukti is Advaitanubhava?


If my translations are really bogus , then prove it. Don't just say they are bogus. You can disprove anything unless you dont't give any valid proof.


A cursory look at any translation by a scholar, even an Advaitin, will show you that your translations are wrong. You have added sentence after sentence that is not there in the original verses.

hinduism♥krishna
13 September 2013, 02:52 AM
Namaste


You see, many times so far I told you that you are contradicting yourself in your own posts. First you say that sayujya or kaivalya is "It is the union of same thing", but immediately afterwards you say "It is the merging of self in self." which refer to two different selves.

If the self is already the self, then how can the self merge with itself? The self can not merge into itself if we are talking about one and the same self. The self can merge into the self only if we are talking about two different selves, ie jiva-atma which merges into paramatma. Otherwise it makes no sense to talk about "merging". Jiva-atma (jivatma) and paramatma are two different selves forever, eternally. Jiva-atma can merge into paramatma. This condition is called sayujya or kaivalya.

According to Monier Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary sayujya means "closely united with", kaivalya means "detachment from all other connections, detachment of the soul from matter or further transmigrations, beatitude".
So even after merging of jiva-atma into the paramatma, this jiva-atma will continue to exist as jiva-atma and he will be "closely united with" the Lord (paramatma). This condition is called sayujya or kaivalya.

regards


Namaste, bramha jidnyasa.

My posts are not contradicting itself. Sadly, your mind didn't comprehend it.

"Merging of self in self " are not mine words.These are mandukya Upanishads words.

For you, I have given explanation of last shloka of mandukya Upanishad.

MANTRA – 12

amatrash chaturtho Avyavaharyah prapanchopashamah shivo. advaita evam onkara atmaiva samvishaty Atmana.a.Atmanam ya evam veda ..
12..

That which has no parts (soundless),incomprehensible (with the aid of sense organs), the cessation of all phenomena, all bliss and non-dual AUM, is the fourth and verily the same as Atman . He who knows this merges his self into the Cosmic Self. (He never again feels he is an individual self).

There are no more quarters. When you go beyond the three quarters, the three states of A, U, and M, then you reach chaturtha , the fourth one, turiya . This state is pure consciousness, beyond Isvara. The gross universe is then gone. The dream universe is gone. All universes, all diversities, all dualities, are gone. You are in the state of suddha chaitanya – turiya and there is only your Self, Atman . You are liberated and there is no birth for you.

Prapancha – The five elements represented by the phenomenal world, this diversity. When you attain turiya, then so far you are concerned this phenomenal world is only an illusion. It comes to an end for all practical purposes ( upasama) . There is no more world for you. You see only Brahman and nothing else. Then there is only Siva, only joy, only good. And there is advaita , no diversity. There is only unity. You see yourself everywhere, in every being – one and the same self everywhere. You realize that this AUM is nothing but the Self, the Atman – evam omkara atmaiva.

He who knows this Truth attains real knowledge, transcendental knowledge. He knows that he alone exists – the entire universe getting merged in him. That is the final state. You don’t see anything outside. Everything is within.

Samavisat – he merges entirely. You merge entirely into your Self. You withdraw into yourself because to you this world has no separate existence. Atmana Atmanam – the self into the Self. The individual self merges into the Cosmic Self. The jivAtman and the paramAtman become one. It doesn't mean atma and bramh are two entities. It indicates jiva's real identity is bramhan. False consciousness which is experienced by jiva under maya ( jivahood) is not the reality. The reality is the one, which is bramh.


Vaisnavas accept four kinds of liberation — sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi and sārūpya. In each of these four kinds of liberation jiva-atma souls in Vaikuntha are "closely united with" The Lord and therefore each of these sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi and sārūpya may be called sayujya or kaivalya, ie sālokya is sayujya mukti, sāmīpya is sayujya mukti, ... etc. (sālokya is kaivalya mukti, sāmīpya is kaivalya mukti, ... etc.) :)
yes , only vaishnawas.

Thank you.

hinduism♥krishna
13 September 2013, 03:03 AM
And they said Sayujya mukti is Advaitanubhava?
I am reading their commentries on gita and bhagavat purana. They were realised bhaktas, not in the sate of realising. They wrote what they experienced. They wrote many Upanishads statements in their commentries. So obviously they wanted to say kaivakya mukti is the highest . They gave much importance on chanting lord Krishna's name. They said lord krishna is bramh or atma and there is not a second thing other than self. This is the final anubhav of moksh.

Omkara
13 September 2013, 03:50 AM
I am reading their commentries on gita and bhagavat purana. They were realised bhaktas, not in the sate of realising. They wrote what they experienced. They wrote many Upanishads statements in their commentries. So obviously they wanted to say kaivakya mukti is the highest . They gave much importance on chanting lord Krishna's name. They said lord krishna is bramh or atma and there is not a second thing other than self. This is the final anubhav of moksh.

I.E. You do not know of any commentary where they say sayujya mukti is advaitanubhava.

brahma jijnasa
13 September 2013, 02:22 PM
Namaste

My posts are not contradicting itself. Sadly, your mind didn't comprehend it.

Yes, your posts are very much contradictory. Maybe you do not see it, if this is so I can not help you with that.
This is one of the main reasons why Vaishnavas never accepted the philosophy of absolute unity.


"Merging of self in self " are not mine words.These are mandukya Upanishads words.

Yes, I know that these are words of the Upanishads.
However, those words you're trying to figure out a way that does not make sense. That's the problem.




Vaisnavas accept four kinds of liberation -- sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi and sārūpya. In each of these four kinds of liberation jiva-atma souls in Vaikuntha are "closely united with" The Lord and therefore each of these sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi and sārūpya may be called sayujya or kaivalya, ie sālokya is sayujya mukti, sāmīpya is sayujya mukti, ... etc. (sālokya is kaivalya mukti, sāmīpya is kaivalya mukti, ... etc.)

yes , only vaishnawas.

No, not only Vaishnavas. So it is presented in the scriptures. Read scriptures carefully and you will realize it.

regards

kallol
14 September 2013, 09:57 AM
Are you debating different moksha or different paths to moksha ?

Moksha, as I understand, is a point. Like mountain peak. Paths can be different.

It would be good if you can derive down the moksha in terms of state of mind. That is more absolute than the actions we take (based on our physical body and world) towards achieving that state.

Once you know this, then the fighting or debating will be meaningless

hinduism♥krishna
14 September 2013, 02:22 PM
Namaste, kallol.
This is the discussion on four types of moksh: salokya, saroopata, samipata and sayujyata. This thread is not about different paths of self realization.

btw, Your views on this are welcome :)

kallol
15 September 2013, 08:18 AM
Dear hinduism♥krishna,

That is why I got slightly confused.

It would help if we can define moksh first. And then try to find if they can be different.

As per my understanding moksh is a point where the frequency in mind becomes zero i.e the subtle body (mind) becomes at par with the consciousness.

The frequency in mind is the waves of actions (in terms of thoughts, feelings, etc) going on in mind.

Now that is a point. I got a bit confused as to how a point can be further divided.

Or are we also taking the near zone to that point. This also might be true. Need to ponder on that.