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yudhamanyu
17 March 2007, 09:37 AM
It is noteworthy that the Bible makes no mention of Jesus Christ between the ages of 18 to 30 . Jesus Christ lived in India between the ages of 18 to 30 . .After crucifixion , he returned back to India where he lived in Kashmir till his death .

This has been said by the Indian spiritual masters Paramahamsa Yogananda , Satya Sai Baba and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. Jesus's teaching of chastity, non-violence, and renunciation were derived from Hinduism, Buddhism and Yoga.

The proof for this can be obtained from the books 'Jesus lived in India' , written by a team of Western scholars and archaeologists and ' Hinduism and Christianity' by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar( the founder of the Art of Living Foundation).

Agnideva
17 March 2007, 09:55 AM
It is noteworthy that the Bible makes no mention of Jesus Christ between the ages of 18 to 30 . Jesus Christ lived in India between the ages of 18 to 30 . .After crucifixion , he returned back to India where he lived in Kashmir till his death .

This has been said by the Indian spiritual masters Paramahamsa Yogananda , Satya Sai Baba and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. Jesus's teaching of chastity, non-violence, and renunciation were derived from Hinduism, Buddhism and Yoga.

The proof for this can be obtained from the books 'Jesus lived in India' , written by a team of Western scholars and archaeologists and ' Hinduism and Christianity' by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (the founder of the Art of Living Foundation).

Namaste Yudhamanyu,

This is a very popular theory, and one of the reasons why many liberal Hindu organizations accept Jesus as an avatar-yogi as represented here:

http://www.atmajyoti.org/images/jesus_meditating_forest.jpg

There's an interesting article written by Swami Nirmalananda of Atma Jyoti Ashram about this called The Christ of India (http://www.atmajyoti.org/spirwrit-the_christ_of_india.asp). Some also claim that there is a samadhi (tomb) of Jesus in Kashmir.

A.

Agnideva
17 March 2007, 11:53 AM
Namaskar MG,


However, I could never accept Christianity as I was raised to understand it. To me it was always glaringly opposite to what Jesus was trying to convey, with the emphasis distracted to issues Christ never highlighted.
In liberal Hindu organizations such as Vedanta mission, they actually differentiate between Jesus' teachings and the teachings of the church. They call the latter "Churchianity."


I am not sure of all the historical accuracy of what you are saying, but I love Yogananda's interpretation of the Bible. It is fantastic! I love Christ and Yogananda seems to be able to get at the heart of what Christ was all about.I'm not certain of the historical accuracy either, but it's an interesting theory. As it often turns out, such theories are somewhere between absolute truth and absolute falsehood :).

OM Shanti,
A.

saidevo
17 March 2007, 08:39 PM
Namaste MG.



People have distorted it and also, just decided to add in their own emphasis and twists (sometimes I am not too crazy about Paul's interpretation!). Probably the modern distortion that is most glaring is this new wave of preachers teaching that Jesus wanted Christians to be wealthy and then, of course, the preachers have jets, boats, mansions. Jesus was so simple, so basic, so focused on Light. He did not care about material things in the very least. In fact, he spent his time talking to people that no one would talk to and doing things that the world did not understand.


There is no doubt that Jesus taught simplicity, innocence and unconditional love. With so many Christian denominations and sects, I wonder how not even a single one among them cannot incorporate these messages from Jesus with due emphasis, into their dogma and rituals, even if it means to stray away from the orthodox Gospels and the dogma of churchianity. Perhaps the message is there but there are no takers.

This is where Hinduism scores: it has progressed constructively to suit the times. With Vedas as the base, first the six schools of philosophies came, each successive one more refined than the other, yet all relevant choices even today. Then came the Advaita, Dvaita and Visishtadvaita as distinct schools of thought and action, and the Shakta philosophy, that have established themselves as the major modern sects in Hinduism. Then came the highly successful Bhakti Schools. The Bhakti Path, recommended for this Kali Yuga, was easy to follow, offered a colorful variety of choices, independence and relevance to modern life.

Today's Hinduism has two major 'denominations': orthodox Hinduism and modern Hinduism, each complementing the other and catering to the different levels of spiritual progress. Satyam, Dharmam, Shanti, Prema, Ahimsa (Truth, Righteousness, Peace, Love, Non-violence) are the cornerstones of all the sects and Vedas are the foundation. Every individual man and woman can have his/her own way of going about discovering the spiritual truths, guided by the universal principles of karma and reincarnation. Rather than just reading the scriptures, a Hindu is encouraged to think beyond the worldy life, meditate and pray.

Hinduism teaches that the first gods are the parents, then the guru and the guest and then only the devas and mahadevas. The guru plays a vital role, not by assuming the role of God and giving just ritual redemptions from sins, but by teaching and living the fundamental principles of spirituality and Godhood and connecting the sishya (disciple) to God. mUrti (the idol as the symbolic representation of the Almighty), tIrtha (the holy and purefying water), Acharya (the guru or priest) and shAstra (the scriptures) are present in every puja, ritual and ceremony to raise the meandering mind to the spiritual level, though it may be only temporary.



Years ago now, I used to go to the church when no one was there and meditate and pray. It was very beautiful yet sad time sometimes because my brother was sick. I still love thinking of that darkened church with just a little light coming in, so quiet you could hear the wind outside. It had floor to ceiling tinted windows facing the West and I could watch the clouds outside. It was wonderful being alone in the sanctuary. *Magical*


You have brought out the real purpose of the godhouses: to foster knowledge and spirituality. When I was in college, some of us used to go a temple, walk around its spacious premises during the silent early morning hours, enjoy the nature around and read our lessons. Most Hindu temples also have become commercial these days, but when they are empty, you get the real vibrations, just by sitting within their folds and thinking.

jaggin
22 March 2007, 06:29 AM
That theory makes a nice fantasy but it doesn't have any base in reality.

1. There is no historical record of what Jesus was doing in those years. With God all things have to be done in the fullness of time. Obviusly He could have started His ministry much earlier but we may never know why unless He is willing to tell us at some time.

2. God has no need to go someplace to learn anything because He already knows everything. Jesus by age 12 wasn't learning; He was teaching the teachers.

saidevo
22 March 2007, 07:35 AM
Namaste Jaggin.


That theory makes a nice fantasy but it doesn't have any base in reality.

1. There is no historical record of what Jesus was doing in those years. With God all things have to be done in the fullness of time. Obviusly He could have started His ministry much earlier but we may never know why unless He is willing to tell us at some time.

2. God has no need to go someplace to learn anything because He already knows everything. Jesus by age 12 wasn't learning; He was teaching the teachers.

I am not entering into the argument if the info about Jesus in India is theory or history or fantasy, but I would like to point out that God as the great Law Giver, when he takes avatar as a man, obeys his own Laws to the letter and spirit. Thus there is nothing wrong for even God in avatar to have a guru and that in any way does not diminish his abilities as the Almighty.

Sankara, an avatar of Lord Shiva, started teaching when he was twelve. As against the elementary teachings of Jesus (which he, of course, did to suit his followers: it's like a professor taking an elementary school classes), Sankara taught high philosophy that integrated the different schools of Hinduism and became a universal philosophy in the name of Advaita, true to the nature of the Brahman that it points to.

Most things in those times came from India. The Greeks learned their mathematical principles from India. The Arabs learnt the decimal system and spread it across the West. India has been the spiritual birthplace to the entire world from time immemorial, which is the reason westerners seek solace in her teachings. It is inherent in their soul and is a legacy to the world. Therefore, there is nothing wrong if God himself as an avatar seeks to visit the birthplace of spirituality. What would be wrong is to say that Jesus was born in India or established one of his earliest ministries in India as the Church has delusively established and shamelessly continues to maintain in the case of St. Thomas.

yudhamanyu
22 March 2007, 01:32 PM
That theory makes a nice fantasy but it doesn't have any base in reality.

1. There is no historical record of what Jesus was doing in those years. With God all things have to be done in the fullness of time. Obviusly He could have started His ministry much earlier but we may never know why unless He is willing to tell us at some time.

2. God has no need to go someplace to learn anything because He already knows everything. Jesus by age 12 wasn't learning; He was teaching the teachers.


<<Jesus by age 12 wasn't learning He was teaching the teachers.>>

Well, I read in the Bible that he was questioning the priests , not about teaching them.

I would recommend looking at the creation of the roman silk road to the east and the activities of missionaries of Ashoka the Great (the first buddhist emperor of India). The foundations are clear and span hundreds of years prior to jesus' teachings.

Ashoka the great sent buddhist missionaries into the west in about 300bc. The expansion of the roman silk road allowed for unprecidented mixtures of cultures and alexander's conquest into the east further drove the cultural mixing.

Jesus is just the most obvious focal point for the hybridization of these two cultures.



For example, Jesus quotes "Love thy neighbour".

The Buddha himself , in the Lalitavistaras, states, " Through love alone can hate be vanquished; through perfect love evil may be overcome … Speak no harsh words to your neighbour, and he will respond to you in like terms."

It should be mentioned that the term 'neighbour' is clearly used by the Buddha.

Another similarity of Jesus with the Buddha is that both had stated that one should reciprocate evil or injury with good and love.

As Swami Vivekananda said, Jesus ,Buddha and LaoTse are the only prophets in the world who have stated that one should reciprocate evil or injury with love and good.

This above teaching of Jesus is far removed from the ' eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth' teaching of Judaism , in which he was born .

The teachings of chastity and renunciation too by Christ , is not found in Judaism, but are found in Buddhism and Hinduism.

Also , Jesus's teaching of " I and my Father are one " is similar to the Upanishadic teachings of monism or pantheism. An example of this is the verse in the Upanishads ," Aham Brahmasmi ", which means " I am He".

There are much more of these striking similarities in the books I have mentioned that are more than mere coincidences.

Vrindavan
09 September 2007, 06:32 AM
Do you think Jesus went to India to learn from Buddhists or Hindu masters or both ?

yudhamanyu
16 September 2007, 10:47 AM
Do you think Jesus went to India to learn from Buddhists or Hindu masters or both ?

I believe he studied from both the dharmic traditions, Hinduism and Buddhism in India.

Eastern Mind
16 September 2007, 09:01 PM
Not to be insulting to anyone, and only expressing a doubting opinion, I myself don't know if Christ even existed, let alone travelled to India. 2000 years is a very long time ago, considering how history can be altered intentionally or unintentionally. I am certainly not the first to express this idea. Witness the contradictory 'histories of war' when you read it from the opposing forces viewpoints. However, now is now, and an 'idea' called Christ is certainly around, whether its based on history or not is somewhat irrelevant. Just an opinion, not trying to start an argument with my Christian friends. (Most of whom have never heard of this forum.) Aum Namashivaya

yajvan
16 September 2007, 09:46 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Not to be insulting to anyone, and only expressing a doubting opinion, I myself don't know if Christ even existed, let alone travelled to India. 2000 years is a very long time ago, considering how history can be altered intentionally or unintentionally.Aum Namashivaya

Namste EM,

I see your point, yet there are too many things that line up to suggest Jesus did in fact walk this earth. If we use this logic, then one could say the same for the rishi's, Krsna, Rama, many kings, and the like.

One thing to consider, if as you suggest, 2000 years is a very long time, then Jesus has survived the test of time... as have the vedas and the rishis thereof.

Yet if you said 'prove this behond a shadow of a doubt, 100&#37; fact based' I would be hard pressed to do this for Jesus, or any other muni or sadaka. One always points to the bible as a reliable history book, and as of late the dead sea scrolls if I am not mistaken. Just as I would point to the Upanishads or other shastra for Sanatama Dharma verification.

Yet for me it is delightful to think that perhaps Jesus did visit/study in India. Even if he did not, enlightement is possible no matter what walk of life when His Grace chooses to make it so.

pranams,

yudhamanyu
22 September 2007, 07:03 AM
Here is an another striking similarity between Christianity and Hinduism.


Christianity has a trinity of God, in the form of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Hinduism too has a trinity in the form of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva.

The Puranas and hindu scriputures state that Vishnu is the father of Brahma, as Brahma is said to have come from Vishnus navel .

So we have a Father and Son in the form of Vishnu and Brahma.

That leaves us with the third element of the Hindu trinity, Shiva, the Lord of Destruction.

An another name for Shiva is Bhootanath, which is the sanskrit name meaning 'Holy Ghost.' Bhoota in Sanskrit and and in most languages in India, clearly means ghost.

So here we have a Father , Son, and Holy Ghost in the Hindu trinity as well , which is strikingly similar to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost of Christianity.

All this is presented in detail in Sri Sri Ravi Shankars " Hinduism and Christianity."

Hiwaunis
23 September 2007, 06:30 PM
Not to be insulting to anyone, and only expressing a doubting opinion, I myself don't know if Christ even existed, let alone travelled to India. 2000 years is a very long time ago, considering how history can be altered intentionally or unintentionally. I am certainly not the first to express this idea. Witness the contradictory 'histories of war' when you read it from the opposing forces viewpoints. However, now is now, and an 'idea' called Christ is certainly around, whether its based on history or not is somewhat irrelevant. Just an opinion, not trying to start an argument with my Christian friends. (Most of whom have never heard of this forum.) Aum Namashivaya

Om Shanti Eastern Mind,
I remember (vaguely) learning in college that the name "Christos" was found in the History of the Romans. From what I remember a Roman politician had written something about being upset at Pilot for missing some sort of political meeting because of having to deal with this Christos person. It is believed that this politican was referring to Jesus.

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

Gotam
27 September 2007, 02:59 PM
Namaste Hiwaunis and Eastern Mind,

For learned Christians it has always been very embarrassing that Jesus walked on water (we now know that this legend was copied from Buddhism), changed water in wine (we now know that this legend was copied from the Greek-Asian Dionysos cult), made the dead live and the lame walk (the Greek philosopher Pythagoras was believed to have done the same), but in spite of all these alleged miracles NO CONTEMPORARY AUTHOR MENTIONS HIM!

As a result, there have been many attempts to interpret vague mentions of unidentified persons as mentions of Jesus Christ. None of those are trustworthy, but this may still be taught by some ignorant schoolteachers.

The most embarrassing silence in classical literature was that of the minute and prolific Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37-100 or perhaps 104 AD). Christians added a mention to his work in the fourth century, but the forgery was not done intelligently enough for escaping the attention of 19th Century historical criticism.

This means that the historical Jesus, if he ever existed, is quite irrelevant for Christian faith, although most Christians believe their religion is completely based, and completely depends, on his having existed.

From all this I concluded when I was young that there could be no truth in Christianity at all, but now I take a somewhat different view. We need not throw it all away. The gospels do contain a hidden advaita-message, and even a kind of yoga, that Hindus do not need for anything, but that may help Christians understand Sanatama Dharma without having to change their way of thinking completely.

Om shanti

yudhamanyu
10 October 2007, 12:29 AM
Here are other spooky names of Shiva or the Holy Ghost.


Nishachara : The Night Walker

Like the goblins, spirits,ghosts roaming around at night, He stalks the four corners of the universe, suggesting of rising above all that is material.



Pretachari : The Companion of the dead.

The cemetery being His favourite ground, He is a constant companion of the dead.



Bhutachari : The companion of the goblin.

Lord Shiva , who loves the burial ground, is attended by goblins who are His companions during such visits.



Shmashanavasi : The dweller of the cremation ground.

The cremation ground is his favourite residence of Lord Shiva, suggesting that he stands for the transcendence of the mundane.

yudhamanyu
11 October 2007, 12:42 AM
It is the Man who said , " I and my Father are one ", whose power has descended unto millions. For thousands of years it has worked for good. And we know that the same Man, because he was a non-dualist, was merciful to others. To the masses who could not conceive of anything higher than a Personal God , he said, " Pray to your Father in heaven"(Dvaita ). To others who could grasp a higher idea, he said: "I am the vine, ye are the branches ,"(Vishistadvaita) but to his disciples to whom he revealed himself more fully, he proclaimed the highest truth, "I and my Father are one ." ( Advaita )

---- Swami Vivekananda

satay
11 October 2007, 09:15 AM
I don't know why Hindus have to really make sure that jesus fits in with advaita by quoting from swamis and all...why? What's the neeed of it? Who cares about jesus? Why should a hindu care about this man at all? Why?

Jesus is completely irrelevant to hinduism. He has nothing new to offer. Even if he taught advaita to his close shisya...they still couldn't get it...

satay
11 October 2007, 09:34 AM
Just an opinion, not trying to start an argument with my Christian friends. (Most of whom have never heard of this forum.) Aum Namashivaya

Namaskar EM,
Why not invite some of them here?

yudhamanyu
11 October 2007, 11:40 AM
I don't know why Hindus have to really make sure that jesus fits in with advaita by quoting from swamis and all...why? What's the neeed of it? Who cares about jesus? Why should a hindu care about this man at all? Why? ...


And why the need to talk in such a disparaging manner on Swami Vivekananda. From this itself , I understand that u don't know much of this great prophet and sage of Hinduism who inspired Gandhi, Subhash Chandra Bose, Subrahmanya Bharti , Sister Nivedita, Aurobindo ,Dr. Palpu, and many other stalwarts.

There is nothing wrong at all in understanding Jesus's teachings in the light of HInduism and advaita.

Jesus himself is a great spiritual master who have influenced billions . Aurobindo has himself stated that Jesus humanised Europe.

Gandhi , RAmakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda revered Jesus as a great master.





Jesus is completely irrelevant to hinduism. He has nothing new to offer. Even if he taught advaita to his close shisya...they still couldn't get it...

It is our duty to show the world the true origins of Christ and christianity, as per the teachings of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Satya Sai BAba, Paramahamsa Yogananda and others.

It is indeed relevant.

suresh
11 October 2007, 01:57 PM
Aurobindo has himself stated that Jesus humanised Europe.

Maybe, he was trying to be politically correct.:)


Gandhi , RAmakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda revered Jesus as a great master.


Hindus have the tendency to be nice to everyone, and in recent times, that includes even blokes like Aurangzeb and Ghazni, who're being portrayed in a positive light. Is it any wonder that Jesus, evidently better than the aforementioned ones, should get such kind treatment from the Hindus?;)


It is our duty to show the world the true origins of Christ and christianity, as per the teachings of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Satya Sai BAba, Paramahamsa Yogananda and others.

It is indeed relevant.

Point noted, but the technique has backfired, I am afraid. Instead of Christians becoming more 'hindu' on this account, Hindus have become more 'christian', and H'ism that much more semitic.:)

Suresh

satay
11 October 2007, 02:00 PM
namaskar Yudhamanyu,
My apologies for sounding harsh. I didn't mean to write in such a manner about vivekanada.



There is nothing wrong at all in understanding Jesus's teachings in the light of HInduism and advaita.

Jesus himself is a great spiritual master who have influenced billions .


If he is such a great master why not join the church and become a christian then? Why are we here at the hindu forum? Let's all drop our religion and join christianity.



Aurobindo has himself stated that Jesus humanised Europe


With the utmost respect for aurobindo...I disagree with this if he really stated it.

Jesus didn't 'humainze' europe at all.

Please read european history in general and church history in particular and make up your own mind. I don't know in what context aurobindo made that statement if he actually did.



It is our duty to show the world the true origins of Christ and christianity, as per the teachings of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Satya Sai BAba, Paramahamsa Yogananda and others.

It is indeed relevant.

Our first duty is to first understand the truth of dharma. I just don't see the point of why many hindus including ravi promote christianity and jesus. Why not promote the truth of dharma by using examples of hindu sages.

I personally think that this is all done for marketing purposes to 'fit' in the western audience. E.g. ISKCON recognizes jesus as the son of krishna yet many iskconites speak harshly of shiva and other manifestations of the lord that are close to so many hindus in so many different ways.

By the way, since you seem to know a lot about hindu sages, could you share something with me? Do you know the name of Ravi's guru? I ask becuase Ravi's debate a few years back with a fundmentalist muslim was a joke. I am trying to find out from whom he learnt about hinduism i.e. the name of his guru...

If jesus is so relevant to Hindus then we should all become his followers...please lead the way...

yudhamanyu
12 October 2007, 12:29 AM
Maybe, he was trying to be politically correct.:)


Aurobindo was a honest, sincere and brave man and he has no need whatsoever to be politically correct.




Hindus have the tendency to be nice to everyone, and in recent times, that includes even blokes like Aurangzeb and Ghazni, who're being portrayed in a positive light. Is it any wonder that Jesus, evidently better than the aforementioned ones, should get such kind treatment from the Hindus?;)

There is a major difference between Jesus and the likes of Aurangzeb and
Ghazni.

I don't know who are the idiots who are trying to portray Aurangzeb and Ghazni in a positive light even though are known for their slaughter and sheer butchery and intolerance. If such idiots exist,they should be countered through a mass information program on what aury and ghazny had done.




Point noted, but the technique has backfired, I am afraid. Instead of Christians becoming more 'hindu' on this account, Hindus have become more 'christian', and H'ism that much more semitic.:)

Suresh

And how many Hindus , who know that Jesus had lived in India, and that his teachings were later corrupted massively by his followers which resulted in the shedding of an ocean of blood and terrefic atrocities, converted to christianity !!!

yudhamanyu
12 October 2007, 12:49 AM
namaskar Yudhamanyu,
My apologies for sounding harsh. I didn't mean to write in such a manner about vivekanada.


Its all right , satay. However please be more circumspect in the future when you talk about Swami Vivekananda and other venerable masters of Hinduism.




If he is such a great master why not join the church and become a christian then? Why are we here at the hindu forum? Let's all drop our religion and join christianity.


How ridiculous !!!

Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, Sri Sri RaviShankar , Gandhi had praised Jesus. But does that mean that they had to leave hinduism and join the church, in order to do so.

If there is good and nobility outside the hindu fold, there is nothing wrong at all in acknowledging it.

There is nothing at all wrong in being a devout hindu and at the same time acknowleging goodness in other masters.




With the utmost respect for aurobindo...I disagree with this if he really stated it

Jesus didn't 'humainze' europe at all.

Please read european history in general and church history in particular and make up your own mind. I don't know in what context aurobindo made that statement if he actually did.


I know very well european history and the witch burnings, the forcible conversions and the resultant psychological damage, the inquisitions , crusades , idiotic superstitions and persecution of jews, atheists, unbelievers , scientists by the christians in europe, and also the terrefic atrocities committed by them in north america , south america, asia, africa and australia as well.

HOwever one can say that Europe before the advent of Jesus were a group of barbaric tribes who indulged in massacres, rapine and looting.

Jesus's ideals of non-violence and love, had neutralised to a certain extent the extreme aggressive instincts of the europeans .

This could be what aurobindo meant by the "humanisation of europe " by Jesus.




Our first duty is to first understand the truth of dharma. I just don't see the point of why many hindus including ravi promote christianity and jesus. Why not promote the truth of dharma by using examples of hindu sages.


So-called Ravi, or more appropriately speaking, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , is a Hindu enlightened master , and has done great service to Hinduism and Hindu society and has indeed shown the truth of dharma showing his own example and the examples of the Hindu sages and their teachings.

Go through his works, and you will find them in a very large magnitude.

He has also , in the same way, published a book called "HInduism and Christianity " in order to show the true origins of Jesus's teachings and christianity. "

I find there is nothing at all wrong in this. In fact it is a praise worthy act, as the book is simply brilliant.




I personally think that this is all done for marketing purposes to 'fit' in the western audience. E.g. ISKCON recognizes jesus as the son of krishna yet many iskconites speak harshly of shiva and other manifestations of the lord that are close to so many hindus in so many different ways.


There is a difference between propaganda and fact.

The western scholar Helger Kersten had also written the book "Jesus lived in India " which was a best seller. What was the need for him to write such a book. He is not a hindu sage trying to "market " his teachings.

And so is nonovitch.




By the way, since you seem to know a lot about hindu sages, could you share something with me? Do you know the name of Ravi's guru? I ask becuase Ravi's debate a few years back with a fundmentalist muslim was a joke. I am trying to find out from whom he learnt about hinduism i.e. the name of his guru...


So called "Ravi " or Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , had been influenced by some masters like Maharshi Mahesh Yogi, Vivekananda , Krishna and the likes.

But don't think he has any formal guru and stuff.

And he is an ENLIGHTENED MASTER . For an enlightened master, he himself and his intuitions are his guru, as it should rightly be.



If jesus is so relevant to Hindus then we should all become his followers...please lead the way...

Jesus is the personification of the Dharmik teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism.

If we are following Hinduism and Bhagavan Buddhas teachings, we are already Jesus's followers then.

Jesus himself is a follower of the teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism.

suresh
12 October 2007, 02:42 AM
I know very well european history and the witch burnings, the forcible conversions and the resultant psychological damage, the inquisitions , crusades , idiotic superstitions and persecution of jews, atheists, unbelievers , scientists by the christians in europe, and also the terrefic atrocities committed by them in north america , south america, asia, africa and australia as well.

and


HOwever one can say that Europe before the advent of Jesus were a group of barbaric tribes who indulged in massacres, rapine and looting.

Jesus's ideals of non-violence and love, had neutralised to a certain extent the extreme aggressive instincts of the europeans .Both statements are contradictory, second one not even true. Europe was highly civilized, Roman Empire was pagan. So were the Greeks, Celtics, and the rest. They were developed and civilized. Dark ages in Europe started when Christianity was reaching great heights. Hope you see the connection. Bottom line, Jesus didn't save himself, nor did he save Europe by 'humanizing' it, as Aurobindo describes.

More importantly, it's funny how you repeat christian propaganda that Europe was barbaric, and that christianity saved it. Actually, they say this of every nation, including India; it's a common tactic. So would you believe India is also barbaric, and that Jesus is 'humanizing' it?;)



If we are following Hinduism and Bhagavan Buddhas teachings, we are already Jesus's followers then.If I follow Budhha, I don't just become a follower of Buddha but of Jesus as well. Sounds like a nice bonus package to me!:Roll:



I don't know who are the idiots who are trying to portray Aurangzeb and Ghazni in a positive light even though are known for their slaughter and sheer butchery and intolerance. If such idiots exist,they should be countered through a mass information program on what aury and ghazny had done.

Obviously, you missed the point. It's not about Aurangzeb or Ghazni. It's about the Hindus, who tend to worship anything that comes their way, just about anything! No wonder, hindus worship even people like Teresa as glorious saints.

yudhamanyu
12 October 2007, 11:21 AM
Both statements are contradictory, second one not even true. Europe was highly civilized, Roman Empire was pagan. So were the Greeks, Celtics, and the rest. They were developed and civilized. Dark ages in Europe started when Christianity was reaching great heights. Hope you see the connection. Bottom line, Jesus didn't save himself, nor did he save Europe by 'humanizing' it, as Aurobindo describes. .



Dude, do you have any idea of what the romans or vikings or others in europe did.

Europe was indeed populated by barbarian tribes . Rome and Greece were the exceptions.

Harmless christians and others were given to lions in roman arenas , for entertainment of the roman masses.

But it is true that christianization of greece resulted in stifling of the cultural creativity of the greeks and they became culturally impotent.


There were a lot of gains and losses in europe after its christianization.

Basically , I believe that christianity , with Jesus's teachings of strict non-violence and love, helped to bring an element of humanism in the european psyche , and helped to reduce to a certain extent , its barbaric instincts .

But as I stated before , due to the corruption of Jesus's teachings by the socalled christian establishment, witch burnings, inquisitions,mass corruption of the church, crusades , persecutions all began as well.




More importantly, it's funny how you repeat christian propaganda that Europe was barbaric, and that christianity saved it. Actually, they say this of every nation, including India; it's a common tactic. So would you believe India is also barbaric, and that Jesus is 'humanizing' it?;).



This was stated by aurobindo.

However , pagan barbarism was replaced by christian barbarism in europe.




If I follow Budhha, I don't just become a follower of Buddha but of Jesus as well. Sounds like a nice bonus package to me!:Roll:.



Well, both buddha and Jesus taught non-violence, renunciation and love.

So yeah, when u follow Buddha, you are also following Jesus's teachings as well.




Obviously, you missed the point. It's not about Aurangzeb or Ghazni. It's about the Hindus, who tend to worship anything that comes their way, just about anything! No wonder, hindus worship even people like Teresa as glorious saints.


And have you forgotten that Hinduism stresses that there is divinity in everything.

One must be devout hindus and be proud of ones religion and heritage, and at the same time should also see the divinity in other religions and people as well, and assimilate the best in them and mould it into oneself, without sacrificing ones charecterestic individuality in the process.





As Sri Sri Ravi Shankar says, " Deepen your roots and broaden your horizons. "


I do not want my house to be walled in on all sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.

---- Mahatma Gandhi.

satay
12 October 2007, 11:49 AM
Namaskar Y,

For a hindu it is easy to see that jesus was a buddhist or an advaitin. This is nothing new. All of our sages, swamis have studied him and found that his message was one of non-violence and good for humanity.

However, my point is this:

a) normal people especially, hindus born in the west don't know much about hinduism. So we should first focus on learning about hinduism ourselves and find the good in our own sages instead of following the propanganda poster child of the church.

b) though teachings of jesus may look like non-violence; look what the history tells us. Millions have been slaughetered in his name. Ever heard of 'soldiers' of chirst'? These millions include the millions of jews plus the whole countries where all the previous religions have been wiped out of the face of this earth by christianizing those regions. All in the name of jesus. This is due to his teachings or misinterpertation of it.

The points that you are making about jesus being dharmic etc. have all been made to the christians on different forums on the net. I request you to visit some of these forums and post your posts there. That would be more beneficial. Hindus already know that some of Jesus' teachings are in line with vedas, yet when you post these things on christian forums you will discover the jesus of bible that was barbaric, untrusting, hell bent on condemning everyone to the fire of hell unless you follow him exlcusively. No hindu guru says that you must follow him for moksha (none that I know anyway).

Jesus has a lot of baggage.

Please read the bible yourself instead of quoting hindu sages and make up your own mind.

We dont' need to send this message of sameness to hindus...christians need it most. Please post the similarities on christian forums and show them how jesus was a hindu and then post back the feedback you get here if you would like.

Thanks,

yudhamanyu
12 October 2007, 12:40 PM
Namaskar Y,

For a hindu it is easy to see that jesus was a buddhist or an advaitin. This is nothing new. All of our sages, swamis have studied him and found that his message was one of non-violence and good for humanity.
,

True.



However, my point is this:

a) normal people especially, hindus born in the west don't know much about hinduism. So we should first focus on learning about hinduism ourselves and find the good in our own sages instead of following the propanganda poster child of the church.

,

Hmmm. This explains a lot . I think u r a hindu in the west and looking at things from that angle and perspective.

No wonder you were talking about Swami Vivekananda as " some swamis ".

Yup, you guys have to study and understand Hinduism well indeed.



A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots.

--- Marcus Garvey



b) though teachings of jesus may look like non-violence; look what the history tells us. Millions have been slaughetered in his name. Ever heard of 'soldiers' of chirst'? These millions include the millions of jews plus the whole countries where all the previous religions have been wiped out of the face of this earth by christianizing those regions. All in the name of jesus. This is due to his teachings or misinterpertation of it.



I know this very well, and have mentioned about it as well.




The points that you are making about jesus being dharmic etc. have all been made to the christians on different forums on the net. I request you to visit some of these forums and post your posts there. That would be more beneficial. Hindus already know that some of Jesus' teachings are in line with vedas, yet when you post these things on christian forums you will discover the jesus of bible that was barbaric, untrusting, hell bent on condemning everyone to the fire of hell unless you follow him exlcusively. No hindu guru says that you must follow him for moksha (none that I know anyway).

Dude satay. I posted this over here, for the information of the hindus and nothing else. No need for you to get so paranoid.

I very well know what the christians have done in all the continents.



Jesus has a lot of baggage.
Please read the bible yourself instead of quoting hindu sages and make up your own mind.


I have indeed read the bible .




We dont' need to send this message of sameness to hindus...christians need it most. Please post the similarities on christian forums and show them how jesus was a hindu and then post back the feedback you get here if you would like.

Thanks,

I have posted it and has a good feedback as well. I will be doing more in the future.

However I want HIndus and dharmiks to know as well the Indian influence on Jesus Christ.

A Japanese Buddhist scholar had stated that while Japan is his motherland, it was India that he considered to be his fatherland.

Similarly one can say that while Palestine was Jesus's motherland, it was India that was his fatherland.

satay
12 October 2007, 02:37 PM
I have posted it and has a good feedback as well. I will be doing more in the future.


I am very much interested to know on which christian forums you posted this information and any feedback you received. I am also interested in knowing where you will be posting these in the future and I would like to follow those forums.

One forum I would suggest you post this on is the following: http://foru.ms/

Post it in their non-christian forum even... and let's follow the feedback there... let me know when you post their that Jesus' teachings are actually advaitic or vedic and I will follow you there...

Here is the non-christian forum link... http://foru.ms/f76-non-christian-religion.html

Second forum I would like to suggest is http://forum.bible.org/

Talk is cheap...let's do the practical and see the results.

For a hindu it is easy to digest all kinds of nonsense let's see if others have the stamina to digest this...

I think all hindus including the so called swamis and gurus (enlightened, self proclaimed or discovered) should read this book... http://hamsa.org/preface.htm

About Ravi, I don't buy that he is enlightened unless enlightened means being retarded in a debate...enlightenment is easy to fake...so it seems...

satay
12 October 2007, 02:55 PM
Obviously, you missed the point. It's not about Aurangzeb or Ghazni. It's about the Hindus, who tend to worship anything that comes their way, just about anything!


No, not really. However, this behaviour, this accepting nature we hindus have of accepting all junk as divine is something that I always wonder about. Why? Why we have to worry about the junk that exists when our own house needs cleaning?

Did Lord Krishna say to Arjuna 'see the divinity in your cousins and spare them' or did he say, 'don't lament' while you chop the heads of your own family because they are following adharmic ways...



No wonder, hindus worship even people like Teresa as glorious saints.

I don't think that hindus 'worshipped' her but many hindus respected her lot without knowing her true nature and doing...she was the poster child of the church 'saving the poorest of the poor' in calcutta, all the while when she declared that 'india needs jesus'.

only in the land of hindus this can happen...what else is new?

satay
12 October 2007, 03:11 PM
Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, Sri Sri RaviShankar , Gandhi had praised Jesus. But does that mean that they had to leave hinduism and join the church, in order to do so.


You and I are not ramakrishna, vivekanada, yogananda, ravi or gandhi. They had their purpose. But now a days the swamis that land on the US soil have one purpose...win the audience, if that means twisting and turning the message and beling politically correct so be it. What a shame. Let's imagine if adi shankara did this in buddhist times, we would all be buddhist...(not that there is anything wrong with that)

Making 'jesus' hindu is an old trick done a thousand times already and you know what, christians are not buying this nonsense so we should stop promoting it.

or let's do this, let's fill all mandirs with jesus idols and let's all start worshipping him like we did to the buddha. Take him in the hindu fold, idolize him...and let's see how the christian friends react to this.



If there is good and nobility outside the hindu fold, there is nothing wrong at all in acknowledging it.


Sure, but there is so much 'evil' also attached to jesus in the bible. But, I am prepared to ignore it. No problem.



I know very well european history and the witch burnings, the forcible conversions and the resultant psychological damage, the inquisitions , crusades , idiotic superstitions and persecution of jews, atheists, unbelievers , scientists by the christians in europe, and also the terrefic atrocities committed by them in north america , south america, asia, africa and australia as well.

HOwever one can say that Europe before the advent of Jesus were a group of barbaric tribes who indulged in massacres, rapine and looting.

Jesus's ideals of non-violence and love, had neutralised to a certain extent the extreme aggressive instincts of the europeans .


Either you have been living in a cave or you are reading the history books that I don't have access to. Which one is it, I couldn't say for sure.



So-called Ravi, or more appropriately speaking, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , is a Hindu enlightened master , and has done great service to Hinduism and Hindu society and has indeed shown the truth of dharma showing his own example and the examples of the Hindu sages and their teachings.


Okay from now on, you may call me, sri sri satay swami ananda. All kidding aside, don't you think that enligtened masters should know a little bit about hinduism so that it doesn't get raked by the muslims in a debate?




Go through his works, and you will find them in a very large magnitude.

He has also , in the same way, published a book called "HInduism and Christianity " in order to show the true origins of Jesus's teachings and christianity. "

I find there is nothing at all wrong in this. In fact it is a praise worthy act, as the book is simply brilliant.


Put me in touch with a christian that thinks the book is simply brilliant. I would like to talk with such a christian.




There is a difference between propaganda and fact.

The western scholar Helger Kersten had also written the book "Jesus lived in India " which was a best seller. What was the need for him to write such a book. He is not a hindu sage trying to "market " his teachings.

And so is nonovitch.


This is not a new discovery. These have been debated over at the christian forums. I encourage you to post this on the forums that I told you about and let's go there and follow the feedback.





So called "Ravi " or Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , had been influenced by some masters like Maharshi Mahesh Yogi, Vivekananda , Krishna and the likes.

But don't think he has any formal guru and stuff.

And he is an ENLIGHTENED MASTER . For an enlightened master, he himself and his intuitions are his guru, as it should rightly be.


Everyone has a guru, even lord himself when he takes avatar. The fact is ravi is shame and is no enlightened master in my eyes. I reject him completely and you can stop speaking for him as I am not going to swallow this junk.



Jesus is the personification of the Dharmik teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism.


Jesus is a junk packaged in nice box. Open the box and see for yourself...all you will find is a skeleton of a murdered guru.




Jesus himself is a follower of the teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism.

I as a hindu need no convincing, let's see you convince a christian over at the christian forums.

satay
12 October 2007, 03:19 PM
Yup, you guys have to study and understand Hinduism well indeed.


Yes, indeed. Would you like to teach me a bit of Hinduism?

atanu
12 October 2007, 11:10 PM
True.
-----
A Japanese Buddhist scholar had stated that while Japan is his motherland, it was India that he considered to be his fatherland.

Similarly one can say that while Palestine was Jesus's motherland, it was India that was his fatherland.

Namaste yudhamanyu,

See, a Buddhist will acknowledge it but a christian or a muslim will never acknowledge anything good in sanatana dharma.

And we have no real need to go and try to become cosy with the present day keepers of the christian faith, who have no wisdom to comprehend the subtle.

A physicist comprehends Hinduism and Buddhism better than a christian preacher.


Om

yudhamanyu
13 October 2007, 04:02 AM
I am very much interested to know on which christian forums you posted this information and any feedback you received. I am also interested in knowing where you will be posting these in the future and I would like to follow those forums.


You will get the pm from me.




One forum I would suggest you post this on is the following: http://foru.ms/


Post it in their non-christian forum even... and let's follow the feedback there... let me know when you post their that Jesus' teachings are actually advaitic or vedic and I will follow you there...

Here is the non-christian forum link... http://foru.ms/f76-non-christian-religion.html

Second forum I would like to suggest is http://forum.bible.org/



Thanks for the links , bub. I will take it from here.








For a hindu it is easy to digest all kinds of nonsense let's see if others have the stamina to digest this......

"For a hindu it is easy to digest all kinds of nonsense ".

Well, well, well, so now you have started vilifying hindus in the Hindu forum. Great going satay.




I think all hindus including the so called swamis and gurus (enlightened, self proclaimed or discovered) should read this book... http://hamsa.org/preface.htm


Good info, pal.




About Ravi, I don't buy that he is enlightened unless enlightened means being retarded in a debate...enlightenment is easy to fake...so it seems...

As I said before, it is pretty hard for western hindus like u to comprehend Indian enlightened masters.

Come to India, be with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , learn about him and his works, and then comment on him.

Other wise you will only be making a mockery out of yourself.

yudhamanyu
13 October 2007, 04:33 AM
Namaste yudhamanyu,

See, a Buddhist will acknowledge it but a christian or a muslim will never acknowledge anything good in sanatana dharma.


Well, I don't know about that, but I have seen many Christian and Muslim disciples of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar in India, who are fiercely devoted to him and themselves spread his teachings.

A prominent intellectual christian disciple of his, with whom I had a lot of chit-chat when I was a student , is an active organiser of Sri Sris Art of Living classes here in India.

He himself stated that Jesus had lived in India and he has a picture of Jesus in a meditative yogic pose in his house right in the living room.

He also had a lot of books on HIndu philosophy, which he was fond of reading.

There are muslim disciples of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, and they too are very active in spreading his teachings and organising his classes and camps.

I have seen a muslim disciple of his, who is a doctor, singing bhajans with enthusiasm and emotion .

His wife, is an Art of Living teacher, who teaches the Basic Course, and has taken many courses.

An another muslim disciple of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, was suffering from a heart ailment. He was supposed to undergo a compulsory heart operation in Appollo hospital in Chennai , on which he was given very low chances of survival.

He was pretty depressed with the doctors assessment and was spending time with his grandchildren. Upon a friends advice, he did the Art of Living course, including the superb Sudarshan Kriya yogic technique ( which fills the body with pranic energy ).

He practiced it for three months before his scheduled operation. Upon going to the hospital, the doctors upon assessing his fitness, found him to be completely normal without any problems whatsoever, and cancelled the operation.

Filled with gratitude, he sent a letter to Rishimukh stating his heart ailment, his operation, his doing the sudarshan kriya , and his miraculous recovery later on.

He showered Sri Sri with praise and ended the letter with the following words, " JAI GURUDEV ".

And yes , I have indeed seen many muslim disciples of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar.

I have even met a muslim fundamentalist, who hates the americans and the west for what they have done to Iraq and is very religious minded to the point of fanaticism, but at the same time is very loyal to Sri Sri Ravi Shankar as his practice of the Sudarshan Kriya technique , helped him to get rid of a stomach ailment that had been nagging him since his childhood.
For this reason, he had a strong interest and affection for Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and Hinduism.



You can also see the same thing in A.P.J . Abdul Kalam who is a voracious reader of Aurobindo, have gone through and even memorised some verses of Bhagavad Gita, and who is deeply devoted to Mata Amritanandamayi, the female enlightened master of south India.


History itself teaches us that Dara Shikoh, who was the brightest and most beloved eldest son of Shah Jahan, was deeply interested in Hindu philosophy and metaphysics, and spent much of his time with the yogis and sufi mystics.

He also was the first to translate the Bhagavad Gita to persian and was known for his contempt for the fundamentalist mullahs of his time and wrote a satirical poem on them.

He was tragically murdered by his power-hungry younger brother , Aurangzeb, to usurp the throne with the help of the mullahs and islamic clerics who supported him due to his fundamentalist nature .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dara_Shikoh

yudhamanyu
13 October 2007, 05:41 AM
You and I are not ramakrishna, vivekanada, yogananda, ravi or gandhi. They had their purpose. But now a days the swamis that land on the US soil have one purpose...win the audience, if that means twisting and turning the message and beling politically correct so be it. What a shame. Let's imagine if adi shankara did this in buddhist times, we would all be buddhist...(not that there is anything wrong with that).


Pal satay, there is indeed good in Jesus, and if the swamis emphasize that point, it is to help the christians understand it as well, as they have gone away from it as well.





Making 'jesus' hindu is an old trick done a thousand times already and you know what, christians are not buying this nonsense so we should stop promoting it. .


And why should I care whether christians buy it or not. I state the truth ,and there it ends.



or let's do this, let's fill all mandirs with jesus idols and let's all start worshipping him like we did to the buddha. Take him in the hindu fold, idolize him...and let's see how the christian friends react to this..

To tell the truth, Jesus's pictures are there in Hindu temples and institutions in India , in keeping with our tradition of seeing the good in everything.




Sure, but there is so much 'evil' also attached to jesus in the bible. But, I am prepared to ignore it. No problem..

See the good, and also be aware of the evil and criticize it.

In this way, you strengthen the positive and reduce the negative.




Either you have been living in a cave or you are reading the history books that I don't have access to. Which one is it, I couldn't say for sure..

Well, simple living and high thinking is an ideal of mine, so I don't mind living in a cave , meditating and reading books and scriptures, like our ancestors did.




Okay from now on, you may call me, sri sri satay swami ananda. All kidding aside, don't you think that enligtened masters should know a little bit about hinduism so that it doesn't get raked by the muslims in a debate?
.

I must state that it is very foolish of u to keep on judging Sri Sri on some debate without knowing the nuances of it . Sri Sri also has some interesting views on Islam, if you care to check his 'Hinduism and Islam ' book.

The Art of Living is the fastest growing Hindu spiritual organisation in India, and has millions of followers all over the world.





Put me in touch with a christian that thinks the book is simply brilliant. I would like to talk with such a christian.

I will , satay dude.






Everyone has a guru, even lord himself when he takes avatar. The fact is ravi is shame and is no enlightened master in my eyes. I reject him completely and you can stop speaking for him as I am not going to swallow this junk.

Well, you are a big shame in my eyes, but does that mean that I should reject you completely. :)




Jesus is a junk packaged in nice box. Open the box and see for yourself...all you will find is a skeleton of a murdered guru.

Do not follow the body , but his teachings and more importantly, his essence , which is his heart and soul.

suresh
13 October 2007, 09:24 AM
Dear Satay,

This isn't getting us anywhere. While I agree with your views on Jesus, I don't think it's right to attack Sri Sri Ravishankar. The man has done a lot of good. If we are to blame him for praising Jesus, then practically every hindu master, starting from RK, RRMR, Aurobindo must also be attacked. Obviously, that isn't gonna do us any good. Let's just conclude that it's in the nature of the hindus to act in this manner, to praise everyone who appears to be good. There seems to be no other explanation.

Suresh

suresh
13 October 2007, 09:31 AM
I must state that it is very foolish of u to keep on judging Sri Sri on some debate without knowing the nuances of it . Sri Sri also has some interesting views on Islam, if you care to check his 'Hinduism and Islam ' book.


Just curious. Is it true that Sri Sri apologized for writing the book, even admitting that there were several errors?

satay
13 October 2007, 09:35 AM
Namaste,


You will get the pm from me.


I am eagerly waiting for the pm.



Thanks for the links , bub. I will take it from here.

Could you please let us know when you post over there about how jesus was actually an advaitin. I will then come and join you there.



"For a hindu it is easy to digest all kinds of nonsense ".


There is nothing wrong in stating the truth as you said. Hindus have been forced to accept all kinds of nonsense that now it looks like it is their nature and in our DNA to accept nonsense.





Good info, pal.



Obviously, oherwise I wouldn't have posted it here in HDFPuri. The question now is what are "YOU" going to do about it. Simply saying good info, pal is not enough. Let's see some comprehension and understanding from your end.




As I said before, it is pretty hard for western hindus like u to comprehend Indian enlightened masters.


Living in the west doesn't make me a 'western hindu' whatever that is supposed to mean. And I don't appreciate you saying this because there actually are 'western hinds' in HDFPuri who seem to know more that us Indian hindus! No kidding. Take the time read the posts of sarabhanga, yajvan, EM, devisarda.



Come to India, be with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , learn about him and his works, and then comment on him.


I would like to soon. However, I tried to visit this ravi when he was here on a 'money collecting' tour in canada but didn't find the time to see him.



Other wise you will only be making a mockery out of yourself.

The only mockery these days is being made by the self proclaimed englightened master like ravi. they make mockery of themselves, the land of bharat, its people and of hinduism. Those who follow these 'ready to please the western crowd' fake masters are also making mockery of themseleves.

Sadly, ravi is not the first yogi collecting donkey's food from the innocent westerners.

However, i don't wish to continue talking about ravi so this is the last post about him.

satay
13 October 2007, 09:35 AM
Dear Satay,

This isn't getting us anywhere. While I agree with your views on Jesus, I don't think it's right to attack Sri Sri Ravishankar. The man has done a lot of good. If we are to blame him for praising Jesus, then practically every hindu master, starting from RK, RRMR, Aurobindo must also be attacked. Obviously, that isn't gonna do us any good. Let's just conclude that it's in the nature of the hindus to act in this manner, to praise everyone who appears to be good. There seems to be no other explanation.

Suresh

I agree with this.

satay
13 October 2007, 09:36 AM
Just curious. Is it true that Sri Sri apologized for writing the book, even admitting that there were several errors?

Yes, in his debate!

yudhamanyu
13 October 2007, 10:24 AM
Just curious. Is it true that Sri Sri apologized for writing the book, even admitting that there were several errors?

Not at all.

The book can be found in Sri Sri's Art of Living centres anywhere in India.

yudhamanyu
13 October 2007, 10:39 AM
Namaste,





Could you please let us know when you post over there about how jesus was actually an advaitin. I will then come and join you there.
.

No need for that . Thank you anyway.




There is nothing wrong in stating the truth as you said. Hindus have been forced to accept all kinds of nonsense that now it looks like it is their nature and in our DNA to accept nonsense.
.

Well if all hindus had accepted this nonsense,then there would be no hinduism left , right satay.

So rest assured, only illiterate hindus have accepted missionary nonsense.




Obviously, oherwise I wouldn't have posted it here in HDFPuri. The question now is what are "YOU" going to do about it. Simply saying good info, pal is not enough. Let's see some comprehension and understanding from your end.
.



And why are you so interested in what i am going to do !!!!!!!






Living in the west doesn't make me a 'western hindu' whatever that is supposed to mean. And I don't appreciate you saying this because there actually are 'western hinds' in HDFPuri who seem to know more that us Indian hindus! No kidding. Take the time read the posts of sarabhanga, yajvan, EM, devisarda.
.


Pal satay, has a ramana maharshi,or a sri yukteshwar or a sree narayana guru has come up in western hindus, like they have come up in India !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I would like to soon. However, I tried to visit this ravi when he was here on a 'money collecting' tour in canada but didn't find the time to see him.
.

He charges money for his courses,which he then uses for funding his projects for alleviating poverty, illiteracy, and for creating schools , colleges and hospitals for the underprivileged in India.

He has done terrific work in these areas and has helped millions of poor people.

He has also done relief operations in Iraq and Africa as well.




The only mockery these days is being made by the self proclaimed englightened master like ravi. they make mockery of themselves, the land of bharat, its people and of hinduism. Those who follow these 'ready to please the western crowd' fake masters are also making mockery of themseleves.

.


Let me repeat, if you are trying to vilify a man like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, who was nominated for the Nobel Prize for Peace in 2007, and who had won many prestigious awards for his humanitarian work and yoga in India and world wide,and who has millions of followers in India and the whole world, you are only making a fool of yourself ,in front of everyone.

satay
13 October 2007, 12:36 PM
No need for that . Thank you anyway.

There is a need. I want to see how eager you are to share with christians that the son of god was an advatin. I trust that you will show same degree of eagerness that you showed here on HDF while posting that.




Well if all hindus had accepted this nonsense,then there would be no hinduism left , right satay.


Perhaps you should discover another one of your past lives...because what I am telling you is not going through... hopefully learning about another life may enhance your intellect? Not sure...



So rest assured, only illiterate hindus have accepted missionary nonsense.


In my experience, the so called 'illiterate' hindus are much smarter than those claiming 'enlightenment' and those holding phds in theology!



And why are you so interested in what i am going to do !!!!!!!


Simple, anyone who comes to HDFPuri and tries to feed nonsense to hindus, I am interested in them.



Pal satay, has a ramana maharshi,or a sri yukteshwar or a sree narayana guru has come up in western hindus, like they have come up in India !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


huh?



He charges money for his courses,which he then uses for funding his projects for alleviating poverty, illiteracy, and for creating schools , colleges and hospitals for the underprivileged in India.


That's not necessary at all. An enlightened person has no need to 'charge' anything. If an enligtened person is so interested in the well being of others, he or she can simply ask those who can afford to donate money to the already existing foundations of their choice instead of acting like the middle man and taking the credit for all the good works!



Let me repeat, if you are trying to vilify a man like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, who was nominated for the Nobel Prize for Peace in 2007, and who had won many prestigious awards for his humanitarian work and yoga in India and world wide,and who has millions of followers in India and the whole world, you are only making a fool of yourself ,in front of everyone.

Doesn't prove anything.

satay
13 October 2007, 12:56 PM
Not at all.



A complete lie.

Read the debate...

yudhamanyu
13 October 2007, 01:14 PM
There is a need. I want to see how eager you are to share with christians that the son of god was an advatin. I trust that you will show same degree of eagerness that you showed here on HDF while posting that..

Well, I have already done that with a good degree of success.



Perhaps you should discover another one of your past lives...because what I am telling you is not going through... hopefully learning about another life may enhance your intellect? Not sure....

And what does this has to do with my previous births !!!!!!

I have never undergone any christian conversion attempts at all in them ,from what i know.

Please talk intelligently ,dear satay.



In my experience, the so called 'illiterate' hindus are much smarter than those claiming 'enlightenment' and those holding phds in theology!.

Well, your experience is pretty limited then.

I had through my own efforts brought two 'illiterate young hindus ' on the verge of conversion to christianity , back to hinduism.





Simple, anyone who comes to HDFPuri and tries to feed nonsense to hindus, I am interested in them.
.



Well, I am a Hindu and I am only presenting my perspective to other hindus.

However ,what can we do ,when the moderator of a hindu forum starts vilifying a hindu enlightened master like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , who has done tremondous service to the Hindu community, bagged a lot of prestigious awards both in India and the world, and is loved passionately by millions all over the world.

Now who is feeding nonsense.




huh?
.

Well,I will repeat it again.

Pal satay, has a ramana maharshi,or a sri yukteshwar or a sree narayana guru has come up among western hindus, like they have come up in India !!!






That's not necessary at all. An enlightened person has no need to 'charge' anything..

And may I know on what authority are you stating that an 'enlightened master ' should do this and that .



If an enligtened person is so interested in the well being of others, he or she can simply ask those who can afford to donate money to the already existing foundations of their choice instead of acting like the middle man and taking the credit for all the good works!.

Well, Sri Sri is different. He is more interested in earning money through his own efforts and helping poor and underprivileged Hindus and empowering them through education and creation of jobs and good health care.

His is the fastest growing hindu spiritual organisation in India, and this you can see easily if you care to come to India and see things for yourself.

Here are interesting links on him and his work...



Doesn't prove anything.

It does prove a lot to intelligent people.

atanu
13 October 2007, 02:17 PM
Well, I don't know about that, but I have seen many Christian and Muslim disciples of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar in India, who are fiercely devoted to him and themselves spread his teachings.

---

Namaskar,

Yes. Many Muslims and Christians have been devotees of Ramakrishna and Ramana. And in my area, a muslim used to be the President of Durga Puja committee. But they are no more muslims or Christians who teach that except for Mohammed or Christ, respectively, there is no way.


You see the difference?

Om

Kaos
13 October 2007, 03:33 PM
Namaste yudhamanyu and all,

If Jesus was advaitin as some claim, how come Jesus never taught about some important advaitin concepts such as maya, re-incarnation, non-dualistic reality, etc...

Perhaps, Jesus' teachings are stretched by some to fit into their agenda, but clearly the official Christian line of thought does not at all encourage the view that Jesus was advaitin.

Christians believe that "good" Christians go to heaven as a reward, while hell await the "evil doers" as punishment.

If Jesus Christ was indeed, advaitin, and believed in non-duality, therefore, no one goes to heaven and no one goes to hell. :)

satay
13 October 2007, 10:47 PM
namaskar yudhamanyu,
For clarity I recapped my points here http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2164

Let's continue over at the new thread.

atanu
14 October 2007, 12:26 AM
Namaste Satay, Suresh, Yudhamanyu

Despite ZN's alert about retrograde mercury we have prodded along, creating a lot of heat.

I will add to the heat. hehe.

A knower of Om will have no need to prove that Jesus was an advaitin nor will he object to Shri Shri Ravishankar. Neither will he write the way I am writing. Possibly.

A knower of Om will know Jesus, Ravishankar, all that which is hated and all that which is loved to be in one's consciousness. And all that can be made into adorable, by just realising that all is Shiva -- auspicious and good.


Om Namah Shivaya

suresh
14 October 2007, 05:40 AM
A complete lie.

Read the debate...

If it isn't too much trouble, will you please post a link to the transcript? Not the video, which will take a while to load, but the text. Thanks.

Suresh

yudhamanyu
14 October 2007, 07:46 AM
Namaskar,

Yes. Many Muslims and Christians have been devotees of Ramakrishna and Ramana. And in my area, a muslim used to be the President of Durga Puja committee. But they are no more muslims or Christians who teach that except for Mohammed or Christ, respectively, there is no way.



And I must say that you are very wrong in this perception.

The Art of Living itself has devoted Muslim teachers who teach the Basic and Advanced and other courses, and I have seen them myself.

Their devotion was really touching.

There are also other muslims too who was involved in organising Art of Living classes , and doing volunteer work because of their reverence for Sri Sri Ravi Shankar.

I had earlier stated about the muslim fundamentalist friend of mine, who hates the israelis and americans bitterly and is quite orthodox, but has a soft corner for Sri Sri ravi Shankar , due to his curing of his chronic ailment through Sri Sri Ravi Shankars 'Sudarshan Kriya '.

And I have seen many christians too in Art of Living, and surprisingly enough, just recollecting one of them, one has advocated the quick spreading of the 'eternity process' world wide in order to reinforce the theory of reincarnation.

He is immencely devoted to Sri Sri , and his passion has to be seen to be believed.

Similarly there are many others as well.

I have seen young Zoroastrians too , IITians , who are enthusiastic followers of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar ,and are themselves teachers of the Basic Course and Advanced course, being personally trained by SSRS.

I had met many foreign disciples too of Sri Sri , who are greatly devoted to him , and were teachers or where undergoing training in the ashram.

I had also met a young Jew as well, who has tremondous faith and belief in Sri Sri which astonished me. He had also done the Eternity Process as well, and I loved hearing about his past lives from him , and the data and insights I got from him was extremely good .

Both of us are in our late twenties.

And , you won't believe it, Sri Sri has Pakistani disciples as well.

The Art of Living classes are being taken in Pakistan by a Indian muslim disciple of Sri Sri , and he has done great work over there.

Many pakistani muslims , men and women , came to Sri Sri 's Ashram, and I was there at that time , and saw these dudes.

It was very beautiful to see these pakistanis , crowding around Sri Sri enthusiastically and talking eagerly to him.

Sri Sri , is known for his great sense of humour, and kept on cracking jokes with them, and everyone was laughing.

It was also a really astonishing sight to see the pakistanis meditating with interest, when Sri Sri went on a tour to Pakistan , right in pakistan itself.

And you must understand that this is a man who himself received terror threats from islamic terrorists , but he was not at all ruffled by it.

Pictures of him with world leaders from all over the world comes up in the Times of India.

There was also a picture of him in the White House recently , where he was received by George Bush .

It will be interesting to note that Nasa , whose people had undergone the Art of Living programme under his teaching, named a newly discovered star as Sri Sri Ravi Shankar in honour of him.

Also wish to state that Art of Living centres are there all over the world and in almost every country with Indian or that countrys AOL teachers.

satay
14 October 2007, 09:37 AM
If it isn't too much trouble, will you please post a link to the transcript? Not the video, which will take a while to load, but the text. Thanks.

Suresh

No, not at all. Here it is. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2166

The first paragraph of part2ravi.pdf in which ravi explains why the book is full of errors.

atanu
14 October 2007, 12:48 PM
And I must say that you are very wrong in this perception.
-----
And I have seen many christians too in Art of Living, and surprisingly enough, just recollecting one of them, one has advocated the quick spreading of the 'eternity process' world wide in order to reinforce the theory of reincarnation.

---teachers.

But I can see the drastic negative effect of the so-called eternity process right here.

Gotam
18 October 2007, 04:44 PM
Namaste Satay, Yudhamanyu, Suresh,

For someone whose cultural background is mainly christian, your discussion is very fascinating. I have read it with a lot of sympathy for your viewpoints, and agreeing with most of what you wrote, even though you stressed opposite aspects of what I consider as a fair picture. I hope to use the inspiration you gave me to write something longer one day, but perhaps the following observations have some value for you:

Hindus have a vast cultural heritage that contains everything Christianity has to offer, and usually in a more systematic, didactical, effective form. India has had incomparably more wise teachers than we have had in the West. A Hindu who seeks wisdom need not know anything about Christianity.

But by living in a Muslim country, I have myself come to realise what it means to have a Christian background. I strongly dislike Mohammed's teachings, but I do not regret having studied them, and I have discovered an Islam that has nothing to do with this blood-dripping Koran. Similarly, for some Hindus, especially for those who are often confronted with Western mentality or those who feel a desire to explain themselves or share Sanatana Dharma with us, it can be useful to try to understand more of Christianity than what its worst expressions (mainly the Churches) have made out of it.

I can understand that Hindus are afraid of being too "nice" to Muslims and Christians, after Moghol and British rule, facing Jihad and fanatical missionaries whom, in Europe, nobody would listen to (that, too, is true). Such distrust is justified and necessary.

However, there is also a lot of strength in open-mindedness. If you asked a number of average European intellectuals to choose the politically influential person they admire most out of a list of, say, ten, one of them being Mahatma Gandhi, whoever the nine other candidates might be, I bet Gandhi would ALWAYS easily win out. No European politician could get as much respect as Gandhi... in Europe. The fact that he is reported to have said Western civilisation might be a good idea does not change that a bit. If some Jihadi had said that, he would have met with shrugged shoulders and contempt. Gandhi could and can afford to have said that. But he would have impressed the West much less if he had really always rejected everything Christian. On the contrary: hardly anything will remind Westerners as much of Jesus as Gandhi's lifestyle. They will regard it as "more Christian than Christianity".

There is an enormous difference between Jesus' example Christians are supposed to follow and what the Churches made out of that and imposed on their followers and others in the course of history. Much of the intolerance was caused by the belief in heaven and hell, a belief that has almost vanished in Europe now, and that was not universally accepted in early Christianity either, reincarnation being popular until it was banned by the Nicea Council in 325 AD. It is certainly a weakness of Christianity not to have convinced the big masses to live up to the ideal they pretended to worship. If a religion lacks effectivity to such an extent, something must be wrong with it, certainly.

But please don't forget that many Europeans are willing and even eager to learn from Hindu teachers in order to understand what went wrong with Christianity, and sometimes, this brings them closer to a Christian ideal they have always cherished and that played an important role in making them appreciate Sanatana Dharma in its Hindu or Buddhist expression, an ideal that they had almost rejected because like many Hindus, they got upset by the criminal record of organised Christianity or because they realised that science has completely destroyed the possibility of adhering to mainstream Christian faith, except for the ignorant. In its common traditional form, Christian doctrine is simply wrong.

But even those who realise this and may even have rejected more of it all than necessary, will appreciate and admire Hindus for being willing to see something positive in Christianity. This friendliness makes Hinduism look superior. While trying to look superior would be the opposite of spirituality, looking superior will usually result from practicing superior virtues, as was done by Gandhi, Yogananda, Vivekananda and others the West has discovered and admired. If you asked me, I would say: there is nothing wrong with that, go on with it!

Om shanti