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Ashcooper
04 July 2013, 07:11 AM
So, It all started one day when me and my friend sat down opposite each other cross legged, and half for the hell of it, half curious, we began to chant the om sound:

My freind having very little background information on what we were doing at all, and me having slightly more knowledge not that it matters?, my Ganesha idol was on the windowsill having an epic sunset behind him.
What happened next, I think is halfway to meditation and halfway to a lucid dream, because me and my friend, who went from knowing nothing, to knowing this:

We we're chanting om one moment, then the next we were in the cosmos, in pure bliss, there was a big Ganesha in the sky only it was like 5dimensions, around me, within me, and also a part of me, it was at that moment me and my friend realized that everything is part of one. and for me, that's what om symbolizes.

.

As you can imagine after such an event I have been determined to go back, To understand more:
I struggle to meditate, I live in a city, theirs lots of noise, and i work night shifts so i have to sleep in the daytime...
Meditation i find it really hard to keep my mind away from reality.

So, I've been trying to lucid dream every day after work instead... is this the same thing?
Iv'e had one success but it didn't last very long at all...

yajvan
05 July 2013, 07:14 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

... find a teacher. A competent teacher.

If you do not know where you are going, then any road will take you there.


iti śivaṁ

Ashcooper
07 July 2013, 04:49 AM
Where do I look?

tensriram
08 July 2013, 04:27 AM
I have been given an indicative answer to this type of situation by ms Swamiji
During the first attempt you had no expectations and your mind was fresh
The next
You had expectations and mind was full
Always start with a fresh mind and have no expectations
Each sitting is new , fresh, and unique

Ashcooper
08 July 2013, 05:30 AM
I guess your right, maybe i had expectations after that first experience.
Ironically I had a lucid dream last night, and was presented within that dream a way to pursue what I'm looking for. I know not to quit and to keep trying.

I remember looking at my hand last night and the orange symbol for om was glowing on my palms, I also had two penis and no sense of feeling in that area which was really odd, I think it was my body telling my mind I was asleep. I was very close to the awareness asleep i crave.

With meditating in comparison, I find it hard to shut out outside interference and i find the posture of sitting cross legged very uncomfortable to relax, i wonder is there an easier posture to assume?
Someone told me to focus on breathing, when i do that i find myself not breathing, but if i don't focus on breathing, my mind thinks of all the problems in my daily life, instead of escaping it.

yajvan
08 July 2013, 04:29 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté


Where do I look?
Begin to look... but while you are looking become the best student you can be. Learn, study, practice with patience. These you can do while the teacher is in route to you. Become prepared, that is what I would do. Prepare.

There is much information on HDF , begin here the best way you know how then continue with knowledge and experience, rest and activity.

iti śivaṁ

Ashcooper
09 July 2013, 05:41 PM
So. I went online and started watching a yogi and an unconventional guru, each centered on the topic of meditation.

The main message, is meditation was a state of mind and not an action I could forfil.

The night after i watched lots of hours of footage of just these men on the internet telling me philosophy, I had this random urge to go outside and find a sweet spot.

I found it, by a stream in the sun, I sat in my most comfortable position and let thoughts slip from my mind as soon as they entered.

It felt like ten minutes had passed when i realized it had been two hours and i was slightly sunburned, I stood up and just felt light and airy, like all the stress and issues in my body had been taken away.

I went home after and just cleaned my house top to bottom, made myself some dhal, and then sat happily in the quiet in my home with the incense a burning.

I have never felt more at peace than in those few hours, The online suggestion was i do this at least once a day, even if for five minutes, I'm unsure of what other benefits will come of this, but I'm dropping my expectations of it, and am just feeling more, centered and pacifistic.

Just gotta dissolve this ego of mine now.

rkshiva27
15 July 2013, 11:52 AM
you need a teacher (guru) without whom you would be lost in the spiritual world. it is said the teacher and student in spiritual world are destined to meet so you just need to keep looking. attend spiritual ceremonies, visit yogis and spiritual people and soon you would surely find your guru.

and what you have achieved in your first meditation is just remarkable. try practicing meditation for some time everyday. find some time to calm yourself and meditate on some god or goddess (concentrating on emptiness would be difficult at this stage). keep your good work and you will surely find bliss.

Ashcooper
31 July 2013, 08:57 PM
Thank you, I've been keeping it at as best I can, I must admit it's hard to break it into a routine, especially when there is so much noise around. It's a big problem some days:
But I think I have managed to do 5 days out of 7 the last few weeks, between 10-45 minutes each attempt.

Still not that much closer to what I want, though I do see a lot of elephants in the clouds these days, maybe I'm seeking the image out in my mind and that's why I see it. But I find it a subtle aid never-the-less.

Cheers for all the feedback guys, this has been of great use to me.

Amrut
02 August 2013, 01:12 AM
Namaste,

As Yajvan ji has said,

Please try to find a proper Guru. Until then, please do not chant OM. It will neutralize all desires, be it good or bad or divine and take you beyond desires, beyond mind, beyond mAyA.

So if you have some desire which you are not ready to quit, then there will be a mutual conflict and you will not be happy in your life.

If you like Ganesha, chant his mantra

It is a common experience that when first time you sit to meditate, you have good spiritual experience. You too had a good spiritual experience.


Pray to Ganesha to show you the way. Until then, please chant Ganesha's name and do not chant OM

Seeing elephants in sky, I do not know what to say, just neglect it and imagine or visualize form of Ganesha.

Aum

Amrut

Ashcooper
03 August 2013, 09:14 PM
Reflecting on it, I only chanted OM, that first time with my friend, and it was that occasion that led me to this forum, to seek the knowledge I need. My meditation since has been silent.

I'm unsure if you have opinion to argue this: but online there is a guru "osho" I watched a lot of his speeches on mediation, he was saying posture didn't matter as long as you felt comfortable and like you weren't going to fall asleep.
I must admit, sitting cross-legged is a real strain on my back: I'm just not flexible lmao!

I would like to have a spiritual guide. but often feel like my path is to discover it on my own. maybe I already know. for someone without a religious background I'd consider myself quite knowledgeable in most things around me, things that require insight.
I must admit though, having Ganesha around me keeps my heart at peace, and thats a feeling i have missed. for the first time, I'm starting to feel like I do have a soul. something beyond the brain itself.

The hardest part of meditating for me, is dropping expectation, how am i to discover, if i don't ask questions? it just feels like when I try to let my mind go blank, it's at that point that every issue and personal problem in my life comes flooding through my mind like an unsolved jigsaw and I cant focus.

Am i just to reflect on the thought of Ganesha himself? I feel my questions can only be answered by the divine. and I'm still borderline ignorant to their, or my own purpose.

Amrut
04 August 2013, 04:41 AM
Namaste,



I'm unsure if you have opinion to argue this: but online there is a guru "osho" I watched a lot of his speeches on mediation, he was saying posture didn't matter as long as you felt comfortable and like you weren't going to fall asleep.
I must admit, sitting cross-legged is a real strain on my back: I'm just not flexible lmao!


I have not read Osho and many people believing in Traditional approach do not believe in Osho, specially his approach towards handling sensuality.

Anyways, according to Patanjali Yoga Sutra, same thing is said as said by Osho, or rather Osho quoted from Patanjati Yog Sutra-s.

Yogic processes like rising of kundalini, pranayama (breath control and manipulation), sitting in certain posters for physical well being (asana-s) may require one to sit in a particular poster.

But for chanting name of God, such strict adherence to a particular poster is not necessary.

Hence, posture didn't matter as long as you felt comfortable and like you weren't going to fall asleep.

If you are not comfortable sitting crossed leg, then leave that posture. Sit in whatever posture you are comfortable.

You may try to sit in siddhasana (search for google image). It has broader base. Else, to begin with, sit on edge of chair.


I would like to have a spiritual guide. but often feel like my path is to discover it on my own. maybe I already know. for someone without a religious background I'd consider myself quite knowledgeable in most things around me, things that require insight.

It is difficult to gauge our own progress. Hence the necessity of a Guru. Keep praying to God to Show you correct path. Leave the rest to God. At a proper time, you may meet your Guru or someone who will take you a step further in your spiritual journey.


I must admit though, having Ganesha around me keeps my heart at peace, and thats a feeling i have missed. for the first time, I'm starting to feel like I do have a soul. something beyond the brain itself.


This is a good sign. According to Hindu dharma, we have 5 bodies called kosha-s,

पञ्च कोश (five sheaths) :

अन्नमय कोश (physical body, anatomical structure),
प्राणमय कोश (physiological body, energy body, aura) ,
मनोमय कोश (mental sheath),
विज्ञानमय कोश (intellectual sheath),
आनन्दमय कोश (bliss sheath).


The hardest part of meditating for me, is dropping expectation, how am i to discover, if i don't ask questions? Please learn to drop exceptation. Withut this one cannot meditate, as you are biased with what you want. Have faith that God knows what is best for you.

This should be reflected in your daily life too. Expectations of results of your actions is not good, says Lord Krishna in bhagavad Gita. If you develop this attitude, you will be mentally free, will have good night sleep and worries will fade away.

Accepting situation and person with +ve and negative qualities 'As It Is' will make things much easier.

I personally feel that without these qualities and dropping expectations, meditation or Japa is not possible.


it just feels like when I try to let my mind go blank, it's at that point that every issue and personal problem in my life comes flooding through my mind like an unsolved jigsaw and I cant focus.
This is a common experience of all those who meditate. As one chants name of God, mind calms. The process of meditation is such that all thoughts which you have accumulated in mind are to be brought out. Hence God brings out thoughts. They are leaving and not coming. Just let me go :)

If this is difficult, please try to do action (karma) without expectation. Not all can meditate.


Am i just to reflect on the thought of Ganesha himself? I feel my questions can only be answered by the divine. and I'm still borderline ignorant to their, or my own purpose.Since keeping mind one one object for long time is extremely difficult, hence great men has asked us to think of their glory, listen to hymms dedicated to them. Read spiritual material. This keeps worldly thoughts away.

The idea is to keep mind occupied with spiritual thoughts and neglect worldly thoughts. Think and act to which is necessary. Spend free time in spiritual studies.

You must read some purana-s like Ganesh Purana and hymms dedicated to Ganesha.

Mind should know the importance of God what you are chanting. This is easily done by reading spiritual matter that is connected with deity of worship.

Later on you may find is easy to meditate.

Out of 24 hours. How much time you dedicate to God? Not even 1 hour on an average?

Then what kind of thoughts run on your mind - worldly or spiritual?

Then will your mind be accustomed to think on God or think on worldly matters?

No when you sit in meditation, you try to focus on God, on thought which you give very little time and devotion. How can you expect that your mind will not try to think on worldly matters, specially those matters which you gave importance?

Ask these questions yourself. Dedicate more and more time to spiritual matters. Stay tuned with nature, with plants, trees, garden.

Practice tithing, donation. This will make you big hearted. This helps one to cultivate the habit of let-go.

Peaceful mind is necessary to do meditation or japa successfully. Else if you try to force yourself to focus, you may end up getting more agitated, frustrated, violent and may get shamelessly angry at someone without anyone's fault.

This is indeed a slow process, as it takes time for mind to adopt to new psychology, a new way of life. You cannot just decide one day that I am going to meditate and things everything will go right.

You know your outward habit, but may not know your inward habit, your nature of mind, and how will it react when you sit in meditation. You have to consult to those who are meditating regularly and have achieved success in a sense that they can easily sit for long hours, which of course comes with practice.

Puja or deity worship, idol worship is also useful.

Reading 1008 names of Ganesha is easier than meditating on one mantra.

Prayer:

Do not consider Prayer as trivial. It is the strongest sentiment in spirituality. Start your meditation with prayer, pray to God to teach you how to meditate. When the force of prayer will be very strong and prayer will come from heart, surrender to God is strong and so is dependence solely on him, acceptance that you cannot do anything on yourself, then prayer will surely be materialized quickly. God will definitely teach you how to meditate or guide you in one way or other through someone by making he/she as his instrument. All happens at at proper time, according to the wish of God.

To sum up,

Increase your time for spirituality.
Have faith in God.
Keep praying daily to show you correct path
Always have a feeling, Ganesha is there i.e. Ganesha is always present besides me. (Ganesha always accompanying me).

Aum

Amrut

Ashcooper
04 August 2013, 06:16 PM
Thank you, that was a long read but made more sense to me than anything else.

I realize now I haven't actually prayed at all since I was 12. I lost all faith at 12 when I lost my sister. and there has been a mental block there.
The time when i had my revelation this year, it felt like god was speaking to me, yet i didn't say anything still. and i have thought about it a lot more since. but haven't prayed.
I barley even know what prayer is. I know that sounds naive. but I can hardly say "hi god how are you?"
I guess i feel like. like god knows what i think anyway. and i am a part of this godliness. i can't explain what prevents me from praying though: maybe I could express this through my music and lyrics instead? as that is what comes most natural to me.

Thank you again though, that really was insightful.

Amrut
07 August 2013, 12:54 AM
Thank you, that was a long read but made more sense to me than anything else.

I realize now I haven't actually prayed at all since I was 12. I lost all faith at 12 when I lost my sister. and there has been a mental block there.
The time when i had my revelation this year, it felt like god was speaking to me, yet i didn't say anything still. and i have thought about it a lot more since. but haven't prayed.
I barley even know what prayer is. I know that sounds naive. but I can hardly say "hi god how are you?"
I guess i feel like. like god knows what i think anyway. and i am a part of this godliness. i can't explain what prevents me from praying though: maybe I could express this through my music and lyrics instead? as that is what comes most natural to me.

Thank you again though, that really was insightful.

Namaste,

Sorry to hear about your sister's demise.
Theory of rebirth and karma will help you understand why things happen that you think should not and are not prepared for it.

All it connected to our actions and deeds in this and in many past lives.

According to this theory, God only gives you the fruits. What you do and how your perceive is entirely upon you. One has to be optimistic ans one cannot live in past.

Prayer is simply communication with God. there are no specific words. It should come from heart.

Any problems, be it of material or spiritual nature, just ask God, like you ask your family members or someone whom you respect. It is just that instead of them facing you, imagine Ganesha in front of you. Simply pray or ask. The only difference in asking and praying is that former can be casual approach.

If you are stuck up with life and decide to rise above it and live the past behind, you can simply pray to God

'Oh God, take away all the negative emotions and energies within me. I am not able to throw off these thoughts. Kindly take them away.

Oh God, fill me with positive vibrations, positive energy, induce thy faith in me. Remove all obstacles in my life.'

If you are facing a specific problem, pray to God to give you solution. Keep praying daily. When proper time comes everything will be unfolded. Have ths faith.

Have Faith that God never does any harm to any one. It is our deeds in this and past life that actually makes us suffer us in this life. Everyone has free will, but there is also something called as pre-determined destiny. Hence not all happen according to our plans and expectations. We have to pass through certain phase whether we like it or not.

It depends upon us whether we accept this adverse with smile or with tears. Resistance = stress, acceptance = relief.

What we think and how we perceive things or situation depends upon us. It is what makes us, our character. It is what decides our immediate actions or reactions and hence our destiny depends upon how we react or adapt to any situation. So it is said that our destiny is in our own hands. How we shape it, how we adapt and accept bitter truth, facts of life and how steady can we remain while passing through different phases of life.

This is what spirituality teaches us. How to live, what attitude must we have, how to act, acceptance, etc. Men of lofty characters are great source of our inspiration. Like Jesus or Adi Shankara or Ramanuja, Buddha They were all men of lofty character. Their life is an inspiration to us. Hence they managed to attract large crowds.

Likewise, life and character of God and demi-gods help us generate respect for them. This life is portrayed in various purANA-s (puranas), which glorify their deeds, their ability and their godhood.

Try to read Ganesh Purana. then listen to hymms dedicated to him.

Music is an excellent way to communicate with God. In olden days, everything was sung, Bhagavad Gita was sung and not written by Bhagavan.

Gita / Geeta = geet = song.

Aum

Amrut

Ashcooper
10 August 2013, 07:38 PM
Just reading that made me feel a little better. I tried finding an audio version of the text but to no avail, I did hear a few songs though, I think I will start with those. :).

Amrut
13 August 2013, 10:29 AM
Just reading that made me feel a little better. I tried finding an audio version of the text but to no avail, I did hear a few songs though, I think I will start with those. :).

The good thing is 'To Begin' :)

silence_speaks
14 August 2013, 07:07 AM
Dear Ashcooper (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=5554) ,

:) you may not like what I say here ... but the matter or fact is Meditation is not about an altered state of mind.

People often look at meditation as altering the states of mind ... if that is so, don't you think self hypnosis can work better ?

Suppose i invent a machine which you can fix over your head and then it sends signals to specific neurons to create any kind of image you want to see ... you just have to feed in "Rama" and it shows Rama. Feed in Jesus and it shows jesus ... instead of a computer screen ... it shows in your mental screen ... just imagine that such an instrument is constructed.


would i be successful in converting everyone into master meditators ?! Please ponder.

meditation is not about altering states of mind.


Love!
Silence

smaranam
14 August 2013, 10:25 AM
Namaste Aschooper


We we're chanting om one moment, then the next we were in the cosmos, in pure bliss, there was a big Ganesha in the sky only it was like 5dimensions, around me, within me, and also a part of me, it was at that moment me and my friend realized that everything is part of one. and for me, that's what om symbolizes.

Haribol. Shri Ganeshaya namah. Ganesh is communicating with you. You now have a personal relationship with Ganesh. Don't downplay or ignore as the general advise you will find all over. Acknowledge and cherish this Divine auspicious relationship and let Him lead you. There is no rush to get into the nirAkAra.

(The same thing happened to me many years ago. I was half-chanting the mahamantra (Hare Rama ... Hare KRshNa...) because I liked it very much, but did not even know it is the mahamantra. Suddenly I was in a desert (now, reflecting, it was sort of in the Western India - miles and oceans away from where I was physically - and I am quite certain it was the Thar desert of Rajasthan.) And it was bright daylight - like 12 noon - where the soul was , while it was 12 midnight where the body was. Suddenly, Shri RAma and Shri KRshNa (DwArakAdheesh) came walking upto me. It was just me They and miles of sand. They wore jewellery crowns and garland.
They looked at each other, smiled, nodded. Ram left, and KRshNa pulled me out of that place into a another place and another - we traveled thru' falling leaves, snowy cliff...
He is always with me ever since. Shri KRshNa is my real guru.


So, I've been trying to lucid dream every day after work instead... is this the same thing?
:) Just talk to Him! He is all yours now. Whether He wants to appear is upto Him. We do not keep expectations. This is pure devotion. By the way those are not elephants in the sky, its Ganesh, you know that.


I would like to have a spiritual guide. but often feel like my path is to discover it on my own. maybe I already know. for someone without a religious background I'd consider myself quite knowledgeable in most things around me, things that require insight.
I must admit though, having Ganesha around me keeps my heart at peace, and thats a feeling i have missed. for the first time, I'm starting to feel like I do have a soul. something beyond the brain itself.

This is it. Ganesh IS your divine guide. But we must not be demanding, no expectations, just surrender and devotion.


The hardest part of meditating for me, is dropping expectation,
See the above.

how am i to discover, if i don't ask questions?
Right. So ask dear Ganesh, not the forum.


it just feels like when I try to let my mind go blank, it's at that point that every issue and personal problem in my life comes flooding through my mind like an unsolved jigsaw and I cant focus.
This experience itself is your teacher. The lesson is right under yr nose.
First tackle these life problems guided by scripture - the Bhagavad Gita.
So, I would strongly recommend studying the Bhagavad Gita and not just jump to formless meditation right away.
The AtmA is buried under layers of conditioning from many births. Work is needed to let it shine through first. purification of heart - cheto darpaNa mArjanam.

Ganesh should not have to babysit, but you may ask Him some subtle or key questions.


Am i just to reflect on the thought of Ganesha himself?
Your job now is to be the best you can as a devotee. To please Him. So, studying the Bhagavad Gita will help you in that direction. How to be. attitude towards others. Towards life. Knowledge of AtmA. Inner self.
How may I serve You, Ganesh? should be the question.


I feel my questions can only be answered by the divine.
Mine too. always. Shri KRshNa is my Guru, taru, Lord, Beloved, also Mother, Child, Everything. Sarvasva. In fact I hardly exist at all, but as an attribute of Him.


and I'm still borderline ignorant to their, or my own purpose.
Then study the Bhagavad Gita. For getting to know Ganesh, read the Ganesh purAN also, but Bh Gita is for things like life's purpose, divine purpose, what is the Supreme Absolute Truth etc.

Sometimes, in due course Ganesh Himself points or directs the devotee to another area of spirituality - since He is the vighna-nAshak - remover of material and spiritual obstacles, so you meet Him first. This may not happen with you, just saying by experience (I used to see Ganesh when I closed my eyes, also a huge Ganesh touching the sky. Sometimes smelled incense associated with Him when there was none. He directed me elsewhere).


I am very happy for you

_/\_
om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~

P.S.
And I would ignore such things:

Suppose i invent a machine which you can fix over your head and then it sends signals to specific neurons to create any kind of image you want to see ... you just have to feed in "Rama" and it shows Rama. Feed in Jesus and it shows jesus ... instead of a computer screen ... it shows in your mental screen ... just imagine that such an instrument is constructed.
How offensive.

smaranam
14 August 2013, 10:58 AM
This experience itself is your teacher. The lesson is right under yr nose.
First tackle these life problems guided by scripture - the Bhagavad Gita.
So, I would strongly recommend studying the Bhagavad Gita and not just jump to formless meditation right away.
The AtmA is buried under layers of conditioning from many births. Work is needed to let it shine through first. purification of heart - cheto darpaNa mArjanam.

Ganesh should not have to babysit, but you may ask Him some subtle or key questions.

Your job now is to be the best you can as a devotee. To please Him. So, studying the Bhagavad Gita will help you in that direction. How to be. attitude towards others. Towards life. Knowledge of AtmA. Inner self.
How may I serve You, Ganesh? should be the question.


STEP 1: shravaNam - hear [scripture], read [scripture], listen, collect
(Bh Gita and Ganesh Puran)

STEP 2: mananam - contemplate, think, solve life puzzles

STEP 3: nidhidhyAsanam - digest, inculcate the teachings, change attitude walk them. Meditation is a part of this as a following step.
Detachment has to come too - as a healthy balance of life and detachment.
The idea is to stay in the world but not attached to it - at least not too attached to it.

Intermediate overlapping steps -
kirtanam - chant mantra
vandanam - sing hymns, aarati, shloka, etc.
smaraNam - remembrance - also during the day while attending to the world.

smaranam
14 August 2013, 11:10 AM
P.S. An important part of STEP 1: shravaNam is sAdhu-sanga - association of saints. Can you get it? Find a temple closeby. Talk to the priests. Sometimes temples hold lessons/lectures on Gita etc.

This can help with the life part. We have to walk alone, and in such cases as ours, it is the IshTa and us. To be left that way, but Temple association can be a wonderful thing.

Amrut
14 August 2013, 11:24 AM
Regarding Machine, etc ;)

Namaste,

Where science and logic terminates, spirituality begins. All those gross instruments can hardly produce any spiritual effect, at most it can give temporary boost.

If you had been brain washed by continuous auto suggestion about Ganesha, and then if you see or dream about Ganesha then it can be concluded that it might be all psychological.

However, upon no or little information about Ganesha, if you have some visions, dreams or felt spontaneous attraction, then it is not an illusion. It is reality.

Intuitions are direct learning without understanding by logic. I have passed through this phase.

I was ignorant about spirituality and did not feel any urge to visit temple, nor did I study anything related to spirituality.

One day I felt attraction about Lord Hanuman. During those days, I was doing research on advanced ceramics / engineering / bio-ceramics.

Then the image of Hanuman in samadhi used to appear, and even after repeated efforts to ignore, this image would keep floating in front of my eyes. Then I went to Nearby Hanuman temple. I did not knew what to chant, Rama Nama, which is dear to Hanuman or Hanuman Nama. I chanted both. What I was chanting was no proper mantra. I just chanted 5 times and left temple. After few days, the mantra would continue on it's own. One day, the mantra chanting was so powerful, I could not sleep. I could see image of Hanuman and the mantra would continue. I wanted to sleep and made every attempts, but they all failed. This lasted for 2 hours. I could not fight, as if my will has no effect. There as someone controlling my mind.

Remember, during those days, no scriptural study, no proper chanting, no meditations, no japa. Just chant mantra 5 times. Still this effect.

This cannot be illusion. I never demanded nor expected this to happen. I never imagined that this type of thing could actually happen. After some years in spirituality, my family members and relatives see a lot of positive difference. There was change in character and approach towards life. So there is definite positive change in me. This shows that those experience were not mental conditioning.

One say say it is mental construct, when we expect certain thing to happen, not otherwise.

I had many such experiences, in which I was very sick, barely able to sit, yet would be able to meditate for 1 1/2 hours easily. This happened when I was shifted to Advaita.

What I mean to say is that you are not alone to have such experience and that they are not just mental constructs.

Before 50 years mind was considered as great great great hypothesis. Now it's existence is accepted. We have a main steam medical profession dedicated to mind - psychology.

I would ask you one thing, did you felt any spontaneous attraction for Ganesha.

Science cannot even understand mind, new theories come everyday.

It does not even accept that are there 4 more subtle bodies.

People believe in ghosts (in west too), but they have problem believing in God.

Be positive, step ahead in your spiritual journey. Make a start and rest will all follow :)

Only thing important is to take spirituality seriously and not casually.

Aum

silence_speaks
14 August 2013, 12:07 PM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut, (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158)
:) a hypnotist can simulate such exotic experiences for you.

Its ego which wants to claim hold of exotic experiences in the name of religion !


Science need not understand mind or God :) Science can reject superstitions. Thats job done.

Amrut
15 August 2013, 03:18 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut, (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158)
:) a hypnotist can simulate such exotic experiences for you.

Its ego which wants to claim hold of exotic experiences in the name of religion !


Science need not understand mind or God :) Science can reject superstitions. Thats job done.

Dear S.P.

In hypnosis, you are not aware, while in spirituality, it is all focused on awareness :) . Here who is hypnotist?

I understand about uprooting superstition. But when you have never thought about it and then a thing happens, it is a different issue. No one here is making anyone to forcefully drag into superstition. Science keeps changing. Laws and theories which were thought to be impossible are later on accepted e.g. Schrodinger's wave equation and that light has characteristics of both wave and particle.

As I have said, I am a research guy, had regular interactions with Doctors. Even the president, conveyor, coordinator of international events and conferances believe in these things, had these experiences and are yet very knowledgeable people respected by all those in same (science) field. I am talking about IIT-Bombay, who are top brains.

Though superstition has to be uprooted, care should also be taken that dharma has to be positively projected. These things are not uncommon to Indians, civilized, highly educated and intelligent Indians

All I can say to Ashcooper is that have faith. This is not weakness, emotions are not weakness. Things will be clear as time passes.

Try to google for Ganesha and Mudgala Puranas.

Like Vaishnava-s believe that Krishna is supreme personality of Godhead, similarly, there are Ganapatya-s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganapatya) who believe that Ganesh is supreme personality of Godhead.

Aum

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 08:26 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut, (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),
:)

All I am saying is whats reject-able "Logically" is still in the "Domain of Logic" and not beyond it.

Anything "Seen", Drshya ... is Mithya --- Sri Adi Shankaracharya. And this guy is not an IIT Mumbai guy :D

More importantly I am not giving science any undue importance. In fact I would not call it science. Its inference ... logic, yukthi.
Yukti yuktam vacho grahyam balad api sukadapi
yukti heenam vacham tyajya vrudhad api, sukhad api

[I just quoted from memory]

A logically correct statement, accept it whether its from a kid or a bird. A logically incorrect statement reject it even if it is from an elderly person or sukha maharshi himself.


That Drshya is mithya is very clearly established by shankara with sufficient logic and clarity.

I am not worried whether its Ganesha or Siva or Vishnu.

Please note that hypnotism can increase your "awareful-ness" as well.

And more importantly ... since you are a researcher ... tell me ... is it the vision or his interpretation of the vision that's making it special ? Please tell me. A small kid of 2 years ... he sees Ganesha all around ... what does he say ? :) and i see, what would I think ? Is it my interpretation that's making the difference ? my preconceived ideas ? Please ponder.

Love!
Silence

Amrut
15 August 2013, 09:06 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut, (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),

All I am saying is whats reject-able "Logically" is still in the "Domain of Logic" and not beyond it.

Anything "Seen", Drshya ... is Mithya --- Sri Adi Shankaracharya. And this guy is not an IIT Mumbai guy :D

More importantly I am not giving science any undue importance. In fact I would not call it science. Its inference ... logic, yukthi.
Yukti yuktam vacho grahyam balad api sukadapi
yukti heenam vacham tyajya vrudhad api, sukhad api

[I just quoted from memory]

A logically correct statement, accept it whether its from a kid or a bird. A logically incorrect statement reject it even if it is from an elderly person or sukha maharshi himself.


That Drshya is mithya is very clearly established by shankara with sufficient logic and clarity.

I am not worried whether its Ganesha or Siva or Vishnu.

Please note that hypnotism can increase your "awareful-ness" as well.

And more importantly ... since you are a researcher ... tell me ... is it the vision or his interpretation of the vision that's making it special ? Please tell me. A small kid of 2 years ... he sees Ganesha all around ... what does he say ? :) and i see, what would I think ? Is it my interpretation that's making the difference ? my preconceived ideas ? Please ponder.

Love!
Silence

Dear S.P.

Adi Shankara is much more than Brahma Satya Jagat MithyA. I am a practicing Advaitin :)

You will need to read his biography, Shankara Digvijaya by MAdhava VidyAranya Swami.

People sticking to this half verse, fail to give answers to many questions.

Life of saint is not different from his teachings :)

According to Advaita, Only the last stage is Advaita Sthiti, and Advaita path is direct path, but not the exclusive path from the beginning to reach this state.

If you stick to 'anything "Seen", Drshya ... is Mithya',then lots of problems arise in practical life. Even your own body is nothing but illusion, what are you going to do?, reject it, discard it? I am not body, says Shankaracharya.

One has to rise from dvaita (duality) and not just logically conclude and do nothing to experience the ultimate state or 'just be'

Do you know Madhusudan Saraswati, Sreedhar Swami (Shreedharan Swamin), Sayanacharya?

Also note that upadesha-s are given from AdhikAra bheda. I hope you know ajAta vAda.

Logic can derail us and take us in wrong direction. Who knows that 'my' logic is right and other logic is wrong. One has to study shastra-s and follow them. One has to follow life of saints.

OP is not attached to or obsessed with any sampradAya, be it advaita or dvaita or Yog. Nor did he mentioned about anyone hypnotizing him, nor did he mentioned any kind of autosuggestion.

There are e.g.s of many lives of saints who have seen Bhagavan in Person. SmaraNam ji can give quotation from purAna-s and other vaishnava granths, which are revered as authentic. All traditional paths are logical, thats why they are still existing.

Though OP is not an IITan, he is not 2 year old kid either :)

Paramacharya was just 13 when he was made 68th Shankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti peetham, highest title conferred to Hindu monk.

Aum

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 09:27 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut, (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158)
:)

Logic does not derail us ... its "attachment" that derails. When a person says "my logic is correct and yours is wrong" ... is it "logically" or "since its mine " ?
Logic does not derail.

On the contrary : Sruti-Yukti-Anubhavam are advised. The second one is yukti.
More importantly Shankara advocated Sravana-Manana-Nidhidhyasanam. Sravana is fundamental. Thats why meditations like this wont work.

You know what yoga vasishta says about this ?

उपविश्योपविश्यैकचित्तकेन मुहुर्मुहुः।
न शक्यते मनो जेतुँ विन युक्तिम्-अनिन्दिताम्॥ [Laghu yoga vasishta 28.126]

By repeatedly bringing the mind back to One-pointedness, it cannot be conquered unless one is equipped with faultless reasoning [scriptural reasoning in the context]


I know you understand this. Basically I distract people from all sorts of mental imaginations in the name of religion. And I know this would not be accepted by many :)! Because meditation is not about a mental imagination. Meditation is not even about merely repeating some mantra.
Meditation can involve japa ... but repeating is not meditation [converse case not true].

One has to become meditative first. Then meditation automatically follows.

This is not meditation. With these sort of ideas people later complain "I find it difficult to meditate" ! meditation is something fantastic and ever available for all. All these ideas only block meditation ! Why is a person uncomfortable that he is not seeing Ganesha now or Siva now ? Is that meditation ? Earlier he was "expectation - less" and now he has more expectations ... is that the result of meditation ? Please see !

Meditation is reveling as yourself ... everyone can do it. Its available ... provided one drops some of these ideas. I know some friends who say "I have been meditating but don't have any experiences" ! Do you see that ? Earlier he did not have this complex ... now , thanks to his practise, he developed a new complex :D ... friends, this is not the right way of doing it!

I am sorry for being so blunt ... but its not about my ideas or your ideas ... its about things as they are! Thanks to wrong ideas about meditation, its converted into an achievement or a means to pamper ego.

Love!
Silence

Amrut
15 August 2013, 09:45 AM
Namaste,

I understand

Is Yog Vasistha and Ashtavakra Gita for beginners?

If I talk from ajaata vAda, from shastra-s, then who is the one who meditates?

All these things (idol worship, experiences of divinity, etc) helps. They need a proper guide. Uddhava Gita talks about idol worship. It talks about Jnana Yoga.

Every upanishad and Gita, even PrakaraNa granths of Adi Shankara require qualifications. First chapter of Gita is Arjuna Vishad Yoga. I hope you must be aware, since you are quoting from Yog Vasistha.

Without passing through the vishada, can you directly jump to Jnana kand, chapter 13?

Does not Gita talk about worship to personal God (12.6) ? Does not gita, Uddhava Gita Sveteshwatara Upanishad and Katha Upanishad talk that path of Jnana is difficult ?

and who is going to decide whether your meditation is in right direction?

I myself practice advaita, and follow the same teachings of mithyA, drig-drishya, etc

But what suits to me, does not necessarily apply to all.

Did you experience dispassion? do you have all 4 qualities, as mentioned in Tatva Bodh and Vivek Chudamani? and who decided that you qualify for Advaita. Just because advaita is logically accceptable to you?

btw, is not your body an Illusion? what are you going to do about it?

It's not about being blunt. It is about proper understanding. Please read and understand Adi Shankara fully, without which no point in discussing.

Do you know that all 4 matha-s have temples. Jagannath idol was found and reconsecrated by Adi Shankara.

He repaired many temples, reconsecrated Sri Yantra of KamakhyA devi temple at Kanchi Kamakoti.

What about hymms dedicated to a particular deity. What about Panchayatna puja, shanmata?

I am not negatively speaking. I only request you to fully understand Adi Shankara.

There is so much literature that one gets easily lost in it. Mind and ego gives suitable e.g. and quotes to defined what we do. We need a Guru who can guide us.

Aum

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 10:00 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),
:)
Lets not classify people as "Beginners" , "advanced" etc. How does it help ?

We are neither superior to others nor inferior. The right way of looking at the situation is what is needed: proper perspective ... that's what is needed. And all these ideas are counter productive!

My body is Mithya ... who denies that ? What is to be done about mithya ? nothing ... plz don't give it too much importance. That's all. This question "what are you going to do about your body", itself shows gaps in understanding my friend. This is not to belittle you or prove any superiority.


Love!
Silence

Amrut
15 August 2013, 10:20 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),
:)
Lets not classify people as "Beginners" , "advanced" etc. How does it help ?

We are neither superior to others nor inferior. The right way of looking at the situation is what is needed: proper perspective ... that's what is needed. And all these ideas are counter productive!

My body is Mithya ... who denies that ? What is to be done about mithya ? nothing ... plz don't give it too much importance. That's all. This question "what are you going to do about your body", itself shows gaps in understanding my friend. This is not to belittle you or prove any superiority.


Love!
Silence

Namaste,

Do you agree that upadesha-s are given from adhirakAra bheda?

No one is proving superiority. It is about purity of mind.

All I want to say is advaita is not the only path.

We can keep talking and this would never end.

OM

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 10:20 AM
I would also like to add that I am not saying prayer / temples etc are not needed. Neither am I saying that one should not have Bhakti!!

:)

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 10:24 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),
:)

Yoga Vasishta says "I am bound and want to find freedom", whoever thinks thus and who is not completely free or totally ignorant [to think i do not need freedom] is eligible for this knowledge!

Who is not fit to get it then ?

I personally feel that one should not make it into a big issue !
But most likely , if a person is not an adhikarin, he would ignore what I say here.

Love!
Silence

Amrut
15 August 2013, 10:28 AM
If Adi Shankara had made efforts to build renovate temples. don't you think this this has some purpose?

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 10:29 AM
And more importantly knowledge need not be shielded , it shields itself ... whoever does not "like it" will most probably ignore it!

Ramana was once telling monkeys "You are Atman"!

Adhikaris or not ?

In discussion forums, we present the "Truth", whether or not someone takes it is that person's choice!

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 10:34 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),
:) Please do not think I am against Bhakti brother!
Temples are good ... why do you think I would think its purposeless.

Here also I am not suggesting Bhakti to Ganesha is not suitable. Infact Bhakti is very fruitful. Bhakti is wonderful.

But Bhakti is not emotions or getting emotional Bhakti is not even about dancing or singing before an idol. And again plz dont get me wrong, Bhakti may involve all these too , but just those emotions are not bhakti. Because emotions change. As long as one depends on an emotion, thats not bhakti.
Yes, Bhakta may get emotional or may not get emotional ... Ramana is said to have cried when someone chanted Arunachala Siva [aksharamanimalai ] during his end ... but most often he would not ... this is not to say Ramana was more of a bhakta when he shed tears!

Bhakti may or may not be with emotions ... most importantly ... it is not the name of an emotion

Love!
Silence

Amrut
15 August 2013, 11:13 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),
:) Please do not think I am against Bhakti brother!
Temples are good ... why do you think I would think its purposeless.

Here also I am not suggesting Bhakti to Ganesha is not suitable. Infact Bhakti is very fruitful. Bhakti is wonderful.

But Bhakti is not emotions or getting emotional Bhakti is not even about dancing or singing before an idol. And again plz dont get me wrong, Bhakti may involve all these too , but just those emotions are not bhakti. Because emotions change. As long as one depends on an emotion, thats not bhakti.
Yes, Bhakta may get emotional or may not get emotional ... Ramana is said to have cried when someone chanted Arunachala Siva [aksharamanimalai ] during his end ... but most often he would not ... this is not to say Ramana was more of a bhakta when he shed tears!

Bhakti may or may not be with emotions ... most importantly ... it is not the name of an emotion

Love!
Silence


Namaste,

Do you believe in Sri Ramakrishna :)

Brother, all I want to say is that we have to follow shastra-s as they are authentic.

Infact both Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Ramana Maharshi are exception and not a rule.

Their teachings compliment shastra-s but do not replace them. Sri Ramana Maharshi took maun and did not even speak to his mother for three days. His body was bleeding due to insect bites, yet he was inaware. This is called as ignoring the body.

God makes arrangement to protect body (Sheshadri Swami, Palani Swami). Kids used to urinate no Ramana Maharshi, yet he did not react. This is called as ignoring body. IF we fell sick, laymen will contact doctor, and not ignore pain. What Ramana Maharshi did cannot be replicated by common man. Nor one can replicate Ramakrishna's ways of sadhana.

Initially, singing, dancing, etc, later on the same God, who is both with form and without form will give you proper direction. When we totally surrender, God gives us direction either directly or through a medium (Guru).

Sri Ramana is not the only e.g. there are more, Ramakrishna, Meera bai, Narasinh mehta among modern saint, and there is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. There is Anandmayi Maa. None saints said that their teachings are superior to shastra-s. Not all realized saints communicate with animals like Sri Ramana did. He is an exception. Paramacharya, 68th Shankaracharya of kanchi kamakoti peetham says that power of discrimination is given only to humans. laxmi cow is e.g. of kripa and that realized saint can do anything. Gyandev may make a bull / cow sing bhagavat, not all can, a saint upon seeing an ant thinks that ant has to pass through so many bodies, finally getting human body. It will take so much time. He prays God to grant salvation to ant and God honours the wish. But this is a rare phenomenon. We find similar verse in Vivek Chudamani ( in beginning) that human birth is rare, etc

What I am trying to say is that upadesha-s are like medicines. So appropriate antidote has to be given. We cannot give medicine effective for curing malaria to a typhoid patient, though that medicine guaranties to cure malaria.

Emotions helps, cleanse and purify mind. It all depends upon prakruti. Chanting hymms, singing bhajans also help. Definiton of bhakti to an advaitin and sakar upAsaka are different.

You must be aware that there was a devotee of Ganesh, who was later shifted to Advaita. Importatnly he got marutiy that it is by grace of Ganesha that he is now capable and purified enough to follow advaita. Sri Ramana helpd him in his spiritual progress. I cannot recall the exact event or where I have read it, but this incident had happened.

To one devotee Sri Ramana even blessed and gave shakti pat, putting his hand on devotee's head, thereby activating kundalini. That devotee was practicing Yog.

Ramana Maharshi only focussed on advaita, but did not denounce or downgrade sakar bhakti. He always talked from advaita POV, from stand point of supreme reality.

If you read Sri Ramakrishna's biography and upadesha, his way , life, sadhana and teachings are very different, though Sri Ramakrishna had also experienced nirvikalp samadhi.

Arbitrarily picking up verses wont help brother, following step by step as per instructions given in shastra-s is important.

Infact sakar bhakti (singing, dancing, idol worship) is considered important step for mental purification. There are quotes in Uddhava Gita (6.21-22) and in Bhagavad Gita BG (12.5-6).

Sv. Up also says the same thing and so does Katha Upanishad, that Brahma-vidya is only for purified ones.

Which upadesha has to be given when is important.

After reaching on opposite river bank, one can say that now I do not need the boat, not before. Uttara Gita (1.18)

I hope you are getting my point.

OM

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 11:20 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158),
:)

Where did I denounce Sakara Bhakti ?
Please do not get me wrong here.

Of course I respect Sri Ramakrishna and Mira Bai etc.

All I am saying is ... let the knowledge shield itself.
Who are you/me to say "Brahma Vidhya is not for so and so person" ?
I share my vision.
I share what I see ... he who gets it gets it!
Those that are not prepared, would ignore that ... thus knowledge shields itself.

we need not shield knowledge.
I am not saying one does not need sakara bhakti.
Please read my previous post ... All I am saying is Bhakti is not an emotion, though emotion may be present in Bhakti.
True Bhakti is indeed a wonder !
Bhakti is absolutely necessary.

Note: EMOTIONS DONT PURIFY MIND :D ... BHAKTI PURIFIES MIND :)
and there is a lot of difference !


Love!
Silence

Amrut
15 August 2013, 11:26 AM
Note: EMOTIONS DONT PURIFY MIND :D ... BHAKTI PURIFIES MIND :)
and there is a lot of difference !


Love!
Silence



Namaste,

That may be a translation error.

We call it bhakti-bhAva, spiritual emotion

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 11:27 AM
I would refer you to my other thread on "Hanuman Chalisa" where I discuss Bhakti more elaborately :
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9732

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 11:28 AM
Namaste,

That may be a translation error.

We call it bhakti-bhAva, spiritual emotion

Bhakti Bhava definitely is a great purifier of mind brother! No doubt on that.
But its only possible with certain depth of understanding ... :)

silence_speaks
15 August 2013, 11:41 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158) ,
:) I am also of the opinion that scriptures are Pramanas.
Shastras are the ultimate guidance.

And I agree with you that all these saints respected shastras.

Amrut
16 August 2013, 04:01 AM
Namaste,

What I am trying to say is that Sri Ramana Maharshi's instructions are to be studied in a say that they compliment shastra-s, and not other way around.

Also we should compare what he did in sadhaka avasthA than what he did in siddha avasthA.

Even Yog Vasistha happened when Valmiki and Vishwamitra were convinced that disciple Rama was fit for Brahma-vidya, as he was experiencing dispassion. They requested Vasistha to impart brahma-vidya to deserving Rama. Why not Laxman or other 3 brothers, where they not good natured?

Even Sri Ramana prayed to God in local temple to give him bhakta like that of Sri Ramakrishna. Sri Ramana was also deeply impressed with life of 63 nayanaara saints.

Sri Ramana in Ramana Gita also says who is qualified for Self Enquiry.

Chapter 7:

Ones who have purified their mind through sadhana (meditation) or by Sattvik Karma in past lives can practice advaita Vedanta. He further says that one who does not give much importance to his body and senses and has no interest in the worldly affairs instead of being surrounded by worldly issues are considered as eligible for Self Enquiry.

Svetasvatara Upanishad also says that same thing (6.23) -

यस्य देवे परा भक्तिः यथा देवे तथा गुरौ ।
तस्यैते कथिता ह्यर्थाः प्रकाशन्ते महात्मनः ॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति ।6:23।

These truths, when taught, shine forth only in that high-souled one / pure mind who has Supreme Devotion to God, and an equal degree of devotion the Spiritual Master. They shine forth in that High-Souled one only.

Bhagavan in Gita says

मनुष्याणां सहस्रेषु कश्चिद्यतति सिध्दये।
यततामपि सिध्दानां कश्चिन्मां वेत्ति तत्त्वतः।।7.3।।

manuṣyāṇāṅ sahasrēṣu kaścidyatati sidhdayē.
yatatāmapi sidhdānāṅ kaścinmāṅ vētti tattvataḥ..7.3..

7.3 Among thousands of men, one perchance strives for perfection; even among those successful strivers, only one perchance knows Me in essence (tatva).

संन्यासस्तु महाबाहो दुःखमाप्तुमयोगतः।
योगयुक्तो मुनिर्ब्रह्म नचिरेणाधिगच्छति।।5.6।।

saṅnyāsastu mahābāhō duḥkhamāptumayōgataḥ.
yōgayuktō munirbrahma nacirēṇādhigacchati..5.6..

5.6 But, O mighty-armed one, renunciation is hard to attain without (Karma-) yoga. The meditative man equipped with yoga attains Brahman without delay.

What I am trying to say is that those visions, bhAva (spiritual emotions) are not to be ignored. They help seeker move closer to truth / God. Again, we cannot say something like even though this is not last stage and all forms of god are illusionary and quote some verses from Ramana's 40 verses of reality otr Ashtavakra Gita, then say to him, you still practise chanting his name. What impact will it have on seeker's mind? though we tell truth from Advaita POV, still it is not proper, as it fails to lift person. the purpose is defeated. Also note that sAkAra bhakti is also a path established by avatars. In this path, singing bhajan-s, bhAva, estasy, bhAva samadhi, etc are given importance. when proper time comes, according to Prakruti, one can be shifted to jnana marg or can continue to be on path of bhakti.

Aum

Amrut
16 August 2013, 04:11 AM
Namaste,

Even Ashtavakra Gita at one place says that for uttam adhikari, if he understand properly, he can quickly abide in Self, while a manda adhikari if tries to grasp this teaching, then his life will be miserable.

Once a lecture of Ashtavakra gita was given. After completing A.G., some stopping doing puja, some approached a swami and asked for sanyas. Mind still attached with body.

An Avadhoot or a paramhansa ignores his body completely. Sri Ramana did not went door to door begging for food. God made arrangement to protect his body (via Sheshadri swami and Palani swami) and also send food through any devotee.

Either you surrender your body to god, or you say that i have not right over it and ignore it, in either case, the attachment with body is destroyed gradually. Body is directly or indirectly surrendered to God.

In later case, one leaves body at the hands of prarabhdha. Before completion of prarabhdha, it is responsibility of God to see that body does not drop. This is what I meant when I said, 'What are you going to do with body, as it is illusion'

Until mind is attached with body, one cannot strictly follow brahma satya jagad mithya. environment have impact on body and hence on mind.

Truth has to be given in a way that it can be digested.

I did not see that OP has dispassion (judging from his posts), nor does he have burning desire for liberation. It is just a beginning for him, hence the encouragement.

Aum

silence_speaks
16 August 2013, 04:59 AM
Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=4158) ,
:)

We have exotic ideas about "Avadhoot"s etc. :) Please tell me why you have to ignore the body ? Why not take care of it ? If you have a car and the car is not you, you know it. Does not mean you ignore the car! At the same time you are clear that its not you. And in fact anyone who ignores the car need not be a person who knows he is not the car. People ignore and even abuse their bodies. Its unfortunate! But then ...body need not be ignored ... Jnani's need not do it. Infact what a jnani should do, cannot be decided. A Jnani is one who has jnana. There is some verses that goes like ...
sukha tyagi ... sukha was a renunciate.
Krishna Bhogi ... Krishna was involved in all sorts of activities [though he was ever unattached for sure].
nrupa janaka , raghavau ... Rama and janaka were kings

So a life style does not make one jnani... a jnani can chose his lifestyle.

Secondly, Please, lets not judge others and their maturity.The knowledge takes care of it. If one is not prepared, knowledge itself wont reach.

valmiki clearly mentions in Yoga Vasishta that anyone who does not think he is extremely realized and feels a need to free himself is eligible for this knowledge. This is clearly stated. So lets not drag these prerequisites too much.

Sat Sangha is a mental purifier brother. So as such these discussions can also purify the person ... provided one inquires or remains open.



Love!
Silence

silence_speaks
16 August 2013, 05:33 AM
Lets continue this discussion on my other thread here:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=11906

if you dont mind.