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yajvan
23 March 2007, 08:52 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,
This post was inspired by the previous string, remembering past life's, posted in a different folder; this is tangential to the conversation, but thought to add this post for perspective and POV.

When we talk of past life's, does it not beg the question, how about this life? How long will it last? What is the ceiling or max life expectency? This is Ayush or age determining considerations. Pending ones lot-in-life e.g. individual, [ manusya-ayus ] celestial [deva-ayus], animal [triyag ayus] or a hell being [ naraka ayus] various life spans are possible.

For the individual, on this planet in this yuga ( this time period), ones life say the wise, is vimshottari or 120 years. This knowledge is from Parasara muni (the Jyotisha of the first degee). Ya gotta ask why not an even 100, or the familur 108 (which I subscribe to, based upon another dasa period system)? Let's take a look:

Saturn as Yama , His Hand In This
This one-hundred-and-twenty is coupled to Saturn, Sani, also known as Yama. It is Yama that meters out the length of life. So if connected to Sani, we see that one trip around the sun = 29.5 years. For one's life to be 'complete' it is to cover the 4 Periods or ayana's of life: Dharma (that which upholds individual life or one's duties), Artha ( wealth creation), Kama ( fulfilling one's desires) and then Moksha ( enlightenment or establishing one SELF).
If we multiply 29.5 years X 4 periods we get 118 years. I will assume Sri Parashara's knowledge is much more advanced then mine and rounded to 120 years because he knows more, trying to keep it simple, etc. I can assure you this 120 is not an approxiation, or best efforts! Some also think the following:
The vimshottari dasha cycle of 120 years = 43,830 days, whereas, using the 360 days years, this amounts to 43,200 days. Now why would one use 360 days vs. a 365 day year? One year = one trip around the sun or completing a total 360 degree circle…so each day is worth 1 degree. Hence a 360 degree year is logical and then can work on any planet (brilliant I may add).

Now, note this 43,200 days. It resembles the number of years in Kali Yuga that is, 432,000 years, and it is not uncommon to write this as 43,2000 even though I find it confusing! Hence the length of Vimshottari dasa life span is a subset of the Kali Yuga duration… as Parasara shows consistency of his wisdom and dictums.

Side note, I used this word dasa , which is period or duration. Vimshottari dasa is a 120 year period. Other dasa periods are also available , there are 32 different types of dasa periods one can access and calculate, pending ones chart. My chart sugests that I should access Astottari dasa for a total of 108 years possible ayus.

Based Upon The Yuga In Place
The notion then is the yuga determines ones life span.
That is , Dwapar, Teta and Krita Yuga's are 2X, 3X and 4X times as long as kali duration, all based on this 432,000 years, and 43,200 days. So, one's life span can be potentially 2X to 4X the life span potential of Vimshottari ayus or from 120 years to (4X120) 480 years of potential life. This 480 when added together is 12 [4+8+0]. This 12 is one complete revolution around the zodiac ( 12 signs or rasi's) where one experiences the fullness ( Bhuma) of life in Krita Yuga ( called sat or truth yuga) where most if not all of the population is enlightened beings. Fullness on the indiviual, famly, social and world levels. Fullness of Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha.



pranams,

saidevo
25 March 2007, 09:03 AM
Namaste Yajvan.

In the calendar of Bharatavarsh, the year names repeat in a cycle of 60 years. This gives two cycles of the calendar for the maximum age of 120 years. Perhaps this has connection to the sashti apta pUrti (entering the 60th year) celebration, which is perhaps done to mark the completion of one cycle.

Most Websites give the maximum age of man as 1,000 years for the Dvapara Yuga, 10,000 years for the Treta Yuga and 1,00,000 years for the Satya Yuga. What could be the right information?

yajvan
25 March 2007, 05:34 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan.

In the calendar of Bharatavarsh, the year names repeat in a cycle of 60 years. This gives two cycles of the calendar for the maximum age of 120 years. Perhaps this has connection to the sashti apta pUrti (entering the 60th year) celebration, which is perhaps done to mark the completion of one cycle.

Most Websites give the maximum age of man as 1,000 years for the Dvapara Yuga, 10,000 years for the Treta Yuga and 1,00,000 years for the Satya Yuga. What could be the right information?

Namaste Saidveo,
thank you for the post... it's most interesting. The year repeating in a cycle of 60. It is my understanding that it is based upon Jupiter ( Brihaspiti) that run's a 12 year cycle X 5 cycles = 60 years. Now you would think it would be Sani ( Saturn) of 29.5 years X 2 or ~ 60 years.
There is much to say when these two are conjunct ( which happened a few years back) and the beginning of a new cycle.

Yes, I too have read the 1,000 years period, 10,000 year, etc etc.
and I will await further information ( that is, remain agnostic) on this
until clarity is seen or better indications from the Jyotisha Guru's I have
the opportnity to listen to.

Even in Kali Yuga the age of 120 years as far as I have watched, I have not seen any one hit this age, yet read of people 103 , 105 , and a relative we have will be 101 years old this year ( God Bless her!).

But, I must remind myself we are 'young' in this age of iron.
If it started 3102 BC , we have only completed 1.2% of this age [ (3102+2007)/432,000 = 1.18% ].

If we look not more then 200 years ago, people living to 40 and 50 years was considered normal, maybe 60 years. Now , the expectency is ~72 to 89 years of age ( based upon insurance tables), so things are moving to longer life, yet quality of life is debatable ,eh?


pranams,

saidevo
26 March 2007, 05:03 AM
Namaste Yajvan,



But, I must remind myself we are 'young' in this age of iron.
If it started 3102 BC , we have only completed 1.2% of this age [ (3102+2007)/432,000 = 1.18% ].

If we look not more then 200 years ago, people living to 40 and 50 years was considered normal, maybe 60 years. Now , the expectency is ~72 to 89 years of age ( based upon insurance tables), so things are moving to longer life, yet quality of life is debatable ,eh?


What a hullabaloo and decay within these 5000 years of Sri Krishna's ascent! Specially the last 2000 years have been the worst of Kali Yuga so far. I shudder to think what could be in store for the remaining long years of time, how many births I might need to take and live during them, and how I could build on the little spiritual efforts of this birth that would surely not go waste.

I think the life expectancy shortened in Bharat during the times of the British and Islamic invasion. Earlier we had Ayurveda taking care of our health, but any idea about any records of average life times in Bharat during the pre- and post-invasion times?

sm78
26 March 2007, 05:39 AM
If we look not more then 200 years ago, people living to 40 and 50 years was considered normal, maybe 60 years. Now , the expectency is ~72 to 89 years of age ( based upon insurance tables), so things are moving to longer life, yet quality of life is debatable ,eh?


Present sub-yuga has not yet stabilized to any sustaining patterns ~ it is to be seen how long just technological progress can sustains itself. In every other domain I feel life is getting de-valued, situation being more traumatic in India.

yajvan
26 March 2007, 08:36 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan,
What a hullabaloo and decay within these 5000 years of Sri Krishna's ascent! ...any idea about any records of average life times in Bharat during the pre- and post-invasion times?

Namaste saidevo,

good points here... Yes, Ayurved can and will make a difference. I do not know what the life spans where at that time , but will keep my eyes open if I run across any info.

One note...there are some folks that believe we are not in Kali Yuga ( I am not one of these folks). They base their info on Swami Yukteswar's reasoning that suggests we are in Dwapara Yuga, and we're 307 years into this yuga so far.
Hence, Swami's yuga periods are the following:
Sat yuga = 4,800 years
Treta yuga = 3,600 years
Dwapara yuga =2,400 years
Kali yuga = 1,200 years
TOTAL of 12,000 years. This 12,000 is the waxing and wanning of the cycle, for a full 24,000 year cycle. What is this 24,000 years? it is the precession of the equinox around the zodiac due to the wobble of the earth. The two points we are familur with is the Autumnal equinox and the Vernal equinox or first day of autumn and spring as these times progess backwords around the zodiac. Each year they change by seconds of an arc. If you care to read about this, you will find it in his book The Holy Science. I prefer not to debate this as a group, as the conversation gets heated.

I look around at the environment, people, how one treats others, our world leadership, and can see it sure looks like Kali Yuga to me.

But, that said, if I look up and watch the sun, I would also argue that the sun goes around the earth, that the horizon is the end of the earth, etc. So, our observations may not always see the truth. Until we possess ritam consciousness ( that which only knows the truth) we will not know for sure. I will assume Swami Yukteswar see's something we do not.

pranams,

Agnideva
26 March 2007, 10:10 AM
Namaste Y'all,

There are various interpretations on the yuga cycles and life spans, and so forth. Two prominent ones are the traditional (puranic) model and the Yukteswar Giri model. Yukteswar believed that the puranic authors had interpreted the number of human years listed for a yuga as Deva years (360 human years = 1 deva year), and so multiplied all the numbers by 360.

432000/360 = 1200 (kali)
864000/360 = 2400 (dvapara)
1296000/360 = 3600 (treta)
1728000/360 = 4800 (satya)

Yukteswar also believed in something called ascending and descending yugas, wherein it goes satya-treta-dvapara-kali then kali-dvapara-treta-satya. The traditional model says: satya follows kaliyuga.

As for lifespans, I have also heard of the lifespan limits as Saidevo has mentioned. This is per the traditional model: kali = 100 years, dvapara = 1000 years, treta = 10000 years, and satya = 100000 years. I don't know if Yukteswar had anything to say about this. The strongest critic by far of this lifespan model was Maharshi Dayanand Saraswati, the founder of Arya Samaj. He quoted the following verse from the Veda to say that lifespans have always been ~100 years:

A hundred autumns may we see, for a hundred autumns may we live,
For a hundred autumns may we know, for a hundred autumns may we rise,
For a hundred autumns may we flourish, for a hundred autumns may we be,
For a hundred autumns may we become, and even more than a hundred autumns!
(Atharvaveda XIX:67)

Autumn was representative of a year because at the time the autumn (sharad ritu) was the beginning of the new year.

The 60 year cycle that Saidevo mentions is also very interesting. 1 Jovian (Jupiter) year is roughly equivalent to 12 earth (solar) years. In ancient times, time was measured per the Sun, moon and Jupiter. Each Jovian year (~12 years on earth) was also considered one stage (ashram) of life.

0-12 = childhood
12-24 = brahmacharya
24-36 = grihastha
36-48 = vanaprastha
48-60 = sannyasa

So, the celebration of the completion of the 60th year may also be significant to the completion of all the ashrams of one's life.

OM Shanti,
A.

yajvan
26 March 2007, 05:40 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Y'all,

432000/360 = 1200 (kali)
864000/360 = 2400 (dvapara)
1296000/360 = 3600 (treta)
1728000/360 = 4800 (satya)

As for lifespans, I have also heard of the lifespan limits as Saidevo has mentioned. This is per the traditional model: kali = 100 years, dvapara = 1000 years, treta = 10000 years, and satya = 100000 years. I don't know if Yukteswar had anything to say about this. The strongest critic by far of this lifespan model was Maharshi Dayanand Saraswati, the founder of Arya Samaj. He quoted the following verse from the Veda to say that lifespans have always been ~100 years:

(Atharvaveda XIX:67)

The 60 year cycle that Saidevo mentions is also very interesting. 1 Jovian (Jupiter) year is roughly equivalent to 12 earth (solar) years. In ancient times, time was measured per the Sun, moon and Jupiter. Each Jovian year (~12 years on earth) was also considered one stage (ashram) of life.

0-12 = childhood
12-24 = brahmacharya
24-36 = grihastha
36-48 = vanaprastha
48-60 = sannyasa

OM Shanti, A.

Namaste AD,
Yes I concur... this 60 year cycle is Jupiter ( Brihaspati) based, and the asrama you point out forms a firm logic yet slightly different then naisargika (natural) dasa periods recognized in Jyotish, yet good logic no matter what. My only point would be sanyas period falling in the the influence of Sani ( for disipline, tapas,etc) does not tack well to the 48-60 time zone. Sani's time frame starts at 70 ( yet I have not desire to wait to 70 for sanyas... sooner the better for me)

On another note on life span of 100 years... this has been used by sages to infer enlightenment... as are the numbers 1000 and 10,000, and 1,000,000. The notion is the fullness of the absolute (0) combined with the fullness of the relative ( 0) gives oneness (1) of Brahman.
And as you multiply it by 10 fold ( to 1,000) sugests a 'blessing' of this fullness to come upon you.
Now, the question is are we pointing to life-years, or to fullness of being in Moksha?
I am fine either way... for me I will stick to the tradition I have been taught ( Vimshottari life span of 120 yrs in kali Yuga).... could I be wrong? absolutely.
I also like Sri Yukteswar's numbers much better then the alternative view of 432,000 years of grief. I am in hopes his numbers are correct. Much more uplifting. I am in hopes we find the right answer and can be firm in the number of what yuga applies.


Thank you for a most insightful post.

Agnideva
27 March 2007, 09:46 AM
Namaste Yajvan,

Thanks much for your response.


On another note on life span of 100 years... this has been used by sages to infer enlightenment... as are the numbers 1000 and 10,000, and 1,000,000. The notion is the fullness of the absolute (0) combined with the fullness of the relative ( 0) gives oneness (1) of Brahman. And as you multiply it by 10 fold ( to 1,000) sugests a 'blessing' of this fullness to come upon you. Now, the question is are we pointing to life-years, or to fullness of being in Moksha?
What you say here makes a lot of sense, Yajvan. Perhaps the greater number of years in other yugas are not physical years, but year equivalents. A spiritual experience of a hundred year life in the dvapara may be equivalent to ten lives in the Kali (?). I like this interpretation a lot.


I am fine either way... for me I will stick to the tradition I have been taught ( Vimshottari life span of 120 yrs in kali Yuga)120 year lifespan also makes sense, and connected to the Jovian cycles, implies, as Saidevo pointed out, that one will not live to see a year of the same name more than twice.


I also like Sri Yukteswar's numbers much better then the alternative view of 432,000 years of grief. I am in hopes his numbers are correct. Much more uplifting. I am in hopes we find the right answer and can be firm in the number of what yuga applies. This is also my hope that we may be able to find the right answer at some point. The Yukteswar model is more uplifting in many ways because it points out we are already out of the kaliyuga, and have entered into dvapara since 1599 CE. Whereas, in the traditional model, we have yet to live through the kaliyuga for another 426891 years. I find that the Yukteswar model, however, has not gained much popularity.

OM Shanti,
A.

saidevo
05 April 2007, 12:58 AM
Acharya Ramanuja, founder of Visishtadvaita, lived for 120 years, from 1017 to 1137 C.E. Any idea if he is the longest lived Hindu sage in the Kali Yuga? And Acharya Shankara, who lived only for 32 years, the shortest lived sage?

sm78
05 April 2007, 01:36 AM
Acharya Ramanuja, founder of Visishtadvaita, lived for 120 years, from 1017 to 1137 C.E. Any idea if he is the longest lived Hindu sage in the Kali Yuga? And Acharya Shankara, who lived only for 32 years, the shortest lived sage?

I don't know, Ramanujacharya may be one of the longest living saint whose life was well documented.

However there are stories many saints who have lived for a thousand years or more and still living in a body to guide advanced sadhaks in their specific paths. The Nath lineage has many such stories ~ the famous saint known as Babaji who is claimed to have been witnessed by many people living even today is believed to be 1800+ years old and is still in his physical frame. His stories are one of the most mysterious ~ people came to know about him through the sampradaya of Lahiri Mahasaya, who introduced Kriya Yoga to the common masses and society. Some claim Babaji is none but the maha siddha Gorakshanatha. In the smartha circle some believe Babaji is the revered but little known Govindapadacharya ~ the preceptor of Srimad Acharya.

There were other saints who have been known to live publicly for many hundreds of years. In Bengal Loknath babaji was known to be alive for 280 years or so.

Agnideva
05 April 2007, 10:38 PM
Namaskar Singhi,


There were other saints who have been known to live publicly for many hundreds of years. In Bengal Loknath babaji was known to be alive for 280 years or so.
Yet another one to add to the list is the parivrajaka (wandering monk), Tota Puri, the master of Sri Ramakrishna. Some say he lived almost 250 years.

OM Shanti,
A.

sm78
05 April 2007, 11:48 PM
Namaskar Singhi,


Yet another one to add to the list is the parivrajaka (wandering monk), Tota Puri, the master of Sri Ramakrishna. Some say he lived almost 250 years.

OM Shanti,
A.

I was reading about him in a biography of Swami Rama.

Ekoham
18 July 2011, 02:04 AM
Namaste all,

I don't see anything difficult as regards to longer lifespans of Yogi's (Hath-Yogi's), a yogi knows when his time on this mortal plane is getting over and at that exact time Yogi takes his prana out of this body into samadhi and after the death period is over re-enters into the body, to escape the clutches of death. A yogi can embrace death too at will, there are many examples of this.

Rgds

Ekoham