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shays860
07 January 2014, 10:06 AM
Hello,

For starters I was a little surprised that they enocouraged deity worship since I thought the course was more Advaitic than that. I'm okay with it because I always intended to have a deity help me on my way to nondual realization so to speak. But I don't have a deity... and they make communion with a deity pretty central. You're supposed to start your day with it... So I don't know what to do... I tried to ask this on their forums but they have a lot less traffic so I would be very grateful if you guys have any feedback... I don't really know enough about the Hindu pantheon. I think I lean toward Shiva but I don't know that much. If nothing else can someone recommend a crash course on Shiva to at least give me enough to focus on? Thank you very much.

isavasya
07 January 2014, 11:00 AM
Namaskar shays860,

I believe they want you to chose something like an Ishta devata. Shiva, I believe is great option if you want to have non-dual realization at last. Shiva is the absolute consciousness, the one without second. Shiva exists in everything and he is the our inner self, which we will realize after Moksha. Shiva as you know is shown in various postures performing various roles. The most common posture for him is in state of Yoga, when he is self absorbed. This is a message that self is the ultimate truth. Some pictures also represent Shiva with a damru (musical instrument) which depicts him creating the universe with sound. Shiva's better half parvati is actually Shiva himself. Parvati represents the power of Shiva. His maya, the illusionary power of the lord. Shiva is also shown in various other postures like with a trident, which represents shunning of evil thoughts from one self. He is also the lord who brings pralaya or dissolution of apparent universe. I am sorry that I cannot direct you to any website for crash course as growing in Indian society meant I already learned basics about our most beloved bhagwan. Omkara has posted a shaivite library, may be you can try that out. Hope other members help you to seek what you are looking for.
Shantam Shivam Advaitam.

shays860
07 January 2014, 11:20 AM
Thank you for your help.

Eastern Mind
07 January 2014, 12:11 PM
Vannakkam: Since Chinmayananda was Smarta and Advaita Vedanta, I would echo isavasya's words.

Aum Namasivaya

silence_speaks
08 January 2014, 12:50 AM
Dear shays860 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=3682),

:) First of all Congratulations for starting with the chinmaya Correspondence course. It would surely aid you in your spiritual journey. I have myself not taken the course, but I know that Swami Chinmayananda and his teachings were exceptional.

Vedanta conveys a vision about yourself, not about some God who sits above the clouds :). Its fundamental claim is : You are Purna or Fulfilled. You are Free and complete within, always. And you have to see yourself as such. Vedanta aids you see yourself as ever Fulfilled.

But if we see our own experiences of life, we see ourselves as limited. Our current vision of ourselves is : We are limited in various ways. If my job is gone, my life turns topsy-turvy! If a few of my relationships are disturbed I am gone. If my health goes down, my life becomes a hell. This is our current vision about ourselves. This is what we see.

But Vedanta says : You are ever Fulfilled and complete. Not a lacking individual. How do we get this vision ? Vedanta is not a theoretical framework. Its about seeing for ourselves the vision thats there. That vision is the REAL YOU , which is waiting to be discovered within. That Real You, is God. You may imagine a Buddha or Ramana Maharshi if you want to. Thats the God. You. But you do not see yourself as that God. You see yourself as a limited person tossed by the circumstances of life!

So first this Real You is brought into your life ... since you cannot directly accept that YOU ARE THAT, it starts with saying : Lets first bring this Real You, or God into your life. You will eventually discover this You as yourself. This REAL YOU, which is the God within you is waiting for you to discover. So , you start by bringing this Ishvara or God into life. Slowly and surely you see that HE ALONE IS, all else is mithya [a technical word, needs lot of elaboration]. God or Ishvara is YOU is like an equation that needs to be understood very carefully. Its not to say that you will have some powers or can do some miracles. Its a deep recognition of your own fulfilledness which is also the True God. God is not defined by the power he has or his capacities. God is that Total Fulfilledness ... Absolute Bliss. Which one has to discover for oneself within.

I hope I have helped you a little with this. Please feel free to let me know if you have any more queries on this. Its a big topic , I am sure I have used some very vague terms in this description for the ease of understanding. Will be able to explain more if you have specific queries.

Love!
Silence

shays860
13 January 2014, 05:58 PM
Thank you again for all your help. Right now I am just trying to take in the courses as they come while also studying Dasgupta's history of indian philosophy as the course at this point leaves me plenty of time for other study. I have chosen Shiva as my lord as the course recommends choosing one but they also suggest having an image of your lord to pray in front of and I am having difficulty finding one. Can anyone recommend any good sources?

Eastern Mind
13 January 2014, 06:20 PM
Thank you again for all your help. Right now I am just trying to take in the courses as they come while also studying Dasgupta's history of indian philosophy as the course at this point leaves me plenty of time for other study. I have chosen Shiva as my lord as the course recommends choosing one but they also suggest having an image of your lord to pray in front of and I am having difficulty finding one. Can anyone recommend any good sources?

Vannakkam: Why not find a nice picture on-line and print it out?

Aum Namasivaya

shays860
13 January 2014, 06:37 PM
I was hoping for something a little higher quality than that but I guess I will have to. Thanks.

shays860
13 January 2014, 06:46 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9caE7051Ajc/UTeVOwuKm_I/AAAAAAAAFJU/rpnf8bGtaEM/s1600/Shiva.jpg

I'm really liking this one but I can't find a full size image... I don't guess anyone recognizes this?

isavasya
15 January 2014, 08:56 AM
Dear Shays,

I tried to do google babcksearch but could not find a larger image. Sorry about that. This picture is of Shiva. Shiva is very benevolent and compassionate towards everyone. legend is that when he sees sorrow in any being, he sheds tears because of compassion. This picture might represent that aspect of him. If you search Internet you can find various pictures of Shiva. Let us know if you have any questions. We will help you know more about Shiva.

shays860
17 January 2014, 12:54 AM
Finally found what this is and even found a site that sells a statue that looks almost exactly like it. Now I'm just hoping they will sell a tiny affordable version of it.

http://www.jsbluesea.com/products_detail/&productId=825.html

Eastern Mind
17 January 2014, 07:29 AM
Finally found what this is and even found a site that sells a statue that looks almost exactly like it. Now I'm just hoping they will sell a tiny affordable version of it.

http://www.jsbluesea.com/products_detail/&productId=825.html

Vannakkam: If you're not insistent that it be that particular form of Siva, then a Nataraja or Lingam would also do. Generally Natarajas are quite available. Of course in some traditions, certainforms are favoured whilst others are practically unheard of.

Aum Namasivaya

shays860
17 January 2014, 10:05 AM
Thank you but this is the only image of Shiva that appeals to me for some reason...

Eastern Mind
17 January 2014, 12:33 PM
Thank you but this is the only image of Shiva that appeals to me for some reason...

Vannakkam: True for a lot of people, namely anyone who needs an anthropomorphic God that is in the image of man.

I don't even have a picture of Siva in that form in the house, but I do have Nataraja and a Lingam on my shrine. One represents the first emanated soul, and the other, although it does have a form, represents formlessness. Many people coming from western backgrounds attach to the anthropomorphic form, because it is the most similar to the previous held concept. It's just less of a jump. That's all good. It was only a suggestion.

Aum Namasivaya

shays860
17 January 2014, 01:00 PM
I do appreciate your suggestion. I found the process interesting. I searched extensively for shiva idols and couldn't find anything that resonated with me. Then I found this image that captivated me completely and couldn't find a shred of information about it. But by perseverance and maybe the grace of Shiva I finally found out what it was and maybe a way to get my own at a reasonable price.

shays860
17 January 2014, 10:55 PM
You said "in some traditions, certain forms are favoured whilst others are practically unheard of." You got me wondering what, if any, traditions emphasize the anthropomorphic form over the others.

Thanks

Eastern Mind
18 January 2014, 07:34 AM
You said "in some traditions, certain forms are favoured whilst others are practically unheard of." You got me wondering what, if any, traditions emphasize the anthropomorphic form over the others.

Thanks

Vannakkam: Certainly it's more common in North India. I'm not at all sure about schools in Hinduism, or about the 6 main schools in Saivism. Certainly anyone who uses the Puranas (sometimes called Puranic Hinduism, maybe for lack of a better term) would be more inclined to that particular form of Siva. Maybe some others can shed some light for you.

Aum Namasivaya

Aanandinii
19 January 2014, 01:57 PM
Namaskar Shays,


Finally found what this is and even found a site that sells a statue that looks almost exactly like it. Now I'm just hoping they will sell a tiny affordable version of it.

http://www.jsbluesea.com/products_detail/&productId=825.html
You're not entirely clear so my apologies but I am wondering if you are looking at this statuette as a smaller representation of the image of the actual statue in your first picture? I ask because of the possible significance to the actual image you are so strongly drawn to.

That particular figurine is not of the image you posted. As I understand it, the original statue (http://wanderingon.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/P1220185.jpg) was once located in Rishikesh and sat over the Ganges at Parmarth Niketan Ashram in Rishikesh. The statuette you link to is a representation of a newer statue (http://breathedreamgo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Shiva-in-Rishikesh.jpg) that was built in its place, after monsoon floods washed the original away - not this last year's floods either but about 3 floods ago. However, I am unsure and it may be that there have always been these two forms of this statue, as there seem to be various copies of the originals in various sizes in other areas of Rishikesh.

However, the actual statue from your picture is, I believe, a smaller version (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shiva_statue_at_Parmarth_Niketan,_Muni_ki_Reti,_Rishikesh.jpg) of the original statue that was washed away, standing in the gardens of that same Ashram. Note the side of the head the crescent moon rests on, the shape of knot of the Lord's Jata, and especially the clouds behind the Lord's head in your image, which were not found in the larger free-standing images that were washed away by the floods, or in the figurine you link to. Also note the yoga posture is different for both statues. Depending on how strongly one identifies with the symbolism of the image, this can be significant as the postures mean different things.

The image you've been so strongly drawn to is one that many find very powerful, especially as a focus for Sadhana and meditation. Here is a previous conversation (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=104898), one of a few if I recall correctly, on this forum on the topic of this image: In particular This post (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=104869&postcount=3) from Naya Surya, in which she directs the OP to This Thread (http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6701&highlight=Rishikesh). I am sure you could find more information on the image itself here, if you have interest.

Are you focused on getting a figurine murti right away? It sounds as if funds are a concern at the moment. You don't actually need to buy anything now if that is the case, there are many full-sized images of the original statue online, both before and after the floods in Uttarakhand. One or many could be printed out for the time being, as suggested, allowing you to save for a figurine, either this one or another. The specific yoga pose is Padmansa, and I know I've seen a few on Amazon.

Pranams, and all the best to you on your journey.

NayaSurya
20 January 2014, 11:19 AM
Hari om <3

This image you speak of ...a Mahayogi Mahadeva has been in my head my whole life. I seek it trying to find out what it was, finally found it was located at Parmarth Niketan...yet again it was in this far off place and could not find a link. Finally found out it was a link to my home Temple...that my very Pujari was linked to Rishikesh and Parmarth Niketan. That Swamiji come there each year to my home. This statue is at a place which is linked directly to my location upon earth.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Shiva_in_rishikesh.jpg

Sometimes, the link to such an image is a blessing. <3

...and it goes much further down into my life, as a child i would listen to a song called Mother Nature's Son sung by my favorite, John Denver...and i was obsessed with this song as it played on and on again in my heart and mind. For my whole life this has been true. I could never understand why i was stricken by it.

Now...only a short while ago did i find out this song was written in Rishikesh at an ashram by the Beatles.

Mahayogi Mahadeva is Beloved to me, because it is the form i know in my heart...i rest in that Beloved Lap so many times...it is my home. <3

Should also say, one of my six sons is also named Shay...another odd lil thing that we always stop in Decatur on our trip south to the beloved ocean. :P

NayaSurya
20 January 2014, 12:13 PM
Another post to show you are not alone <3


http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=11634

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=11632

I took some of my favorites and stuck them in an album for anyone who would love to see more. <3

http://s21.photobucket.com/user/neolunae/slideshow/Mahadeva

After re-reading those posts...it shows so perfectly my seeking and not understanding why i was drawn to Him in this form. Well i am happy to report this day, message is received!

silence_speaks
20 January 2014, 11:41 PM
Friends,
:) I would suggest that one should not be attached excessively to the form... even if it is of the God !

The Form you use as a representation for your own fulfilled Self waiting to be discovered ! Its You, the You who is formless and changeless Presence!

Love!
Silence

Aanandinii
22 January 2014, 06:11 PM
Friends,
:) I would suggest that one should not be attached excessively to the form... even if it is of the God !

The Form you use as a representation for your own fulfilled Self waiting to be discovered ! Its You, the You who is formless and changeless Presence!

Love!
Silence
Namaskar Silenceji,

Point well taken. And agreed. :)

For myself i can only say that what I meant was when one is new on the path, sometimes fixations on specific forms such as this are like guides, sign posts, kos minar. They have a significance, though they are only guides and will be gorown out of like childrens' clothes. Still, if one sees significance, one should study it a bit before moving on. But this has only been my own experience and may not apply to others.

Pranams

shays860
22 January 2014, 11:51 PM
I realize they are not identical. I just wanted something as close to that as possible but it turns out that company can't even make one as small or nearly as cheap as I would like... Everything I can find is a little silly looking to me... It doesn't seem like it should be so difficult to find that basic model in wood about six inches high for about twenty bucks the way you can with Buddhas... Buddhas of the quality, size and price I would like are all over the place. I'm obviously not the only one by far that would like to have it... but I just can't find anything. I don't suppose anyone else has found this basic model in a small affordable form?

silence_speaks
23 January 2014, 11:10 PM
Dear Eastern Mind,
:) This post is in Advaita forum and Chinmaya Mission is an Advaitic tradition based on Sri Adi Shankaracharya's teachings.

Love!
Silence