Ravana Granting a Blessing to Rama?

[Webimpulse]

Namaste HDF,

I have a question about a particular point in the Ramayana. Admittedly I haven't read that far into the Ramayana yet (it's a long book, even when translated into English by Ramesh Menon), but I did hear about one part of the Ramayana that is confusing to me. Again, I haven't gotten to this part yet, but if someone could explain it to me, that might help me understand the Ramayana better.

The part I'm referring to is the part where supposedly Sri Rama has to seek the blessing of a prominent priest (or whatever the proper title is) in order to defeat Ravana. The problem being for Rama is that the most prominent priest at the time of the story is none other than Ravana himself. And yet Ravana does the puja for Rama anyway.

Maybe there's something else in the Ramayana I haven't gotten to yet that would explain this, but right now I'm confused why Ravana would essentially doom himself by granting a blessing to his enemy. In another thread on the Ramayana I did read about how some of the themes of the Ramayana involve love and forgiveness between unexpected sources, even bitter rivals or mortal enemies. Still, though, from what I've read so far, Ravana doesn't seem like the type of villain who would essentially do a favor for his enemy and contribute to his own downfall.

Maybe someone can explain this better for me? Don't worry about "spoiling" the story for me; I'm sure I will still get spiritual uplift from the Ramayana. :)

[Ram11]

Namaste Webimpulse Ji,

I read this story in my childhood.Ravana was a Brahmin.A
Brahmin's duty is to guide people.When Sri Ram wished to know
the best time(muhurta) that would result in a victory,he was
advised to consult Ravana.Ravana being well versed in
scriptures suggested the appropriate moment to launch war.And
the rest is history.Ravana performed his Dharma.

Ravana's downfall was due to crossing the limits set by Dharma
Shastras.Those who fail to practise Dharma are bound to be doomed someday or other.By providing the muhurta Ravana merely started bearing the effects of his past Adharmic actions that would bring destruction upon himself.

Forgive me if there are any mistakes.:)

[Aanandinii]

Namaskar,

Thank you Ram ji, for a new perspective. From my own remembrance and perspective, reading long ago similar to yourself, Ravana was a sage in his own right and in asking for his boon from his Tapasya, had asked for the boon to be indestructible by any other Asura, Deva or Celetial being, including the Trimurti, and never even considered to include Humans as he never considered them any kind of match to him in any way, shape or form. A classic case of Hubris and Egotism. Rama was nothing more than another Human to Ravana's eyes, so Ravana never even considered Rama a threat.

This is the way I remember the tale, though my memory is likely full of a lot of holes. I am starting a re-read of the Gita rather than the Ramayana, so it may be some time before i can check on that, if others can quote parts that contradict this take, please remind me. I could very much use the refresher. =)

~Pranams

[Anirudh]

By providing the muhurta Ravana merely started bearing the effects of his past Adharmic actions that would bring destruction upon himself.


Namaste,

I haven't come across this story. Can you provide the verse/sloka from Valmiki Raamayana.

Pranam...

[Amrut]

Namaste HDF,

I have a question about a particular point in the Ramayana. Admittedly I haven't read that far into the Ramayana yet (it's a long book, even when translated into English by Ramesh Menon), but I did hear about one part of the Ramayana that is confusing to me. Again, I haven't gotten to this part yet, but if someone could explain it to me, that might help me understand the Ramayana better.

The part I'm referring to is the part where supposedly Sri Rama has to seek the blessing of a prominent priest (or whatever the proper title is) in order to defeat Ravana. The problem being for Rama is that the most prominent priest at the time of the story is none other than Ravana himself. And yet Ravana does the puja for Rama anyway.

Maybe there's something else in the Ramayana I haven't gotten to yet that would explain this, but right now I'm confused why Ravana would essentially doom himself by granting a blessing to his enemy. In another thread on the Ramayana I did read about how some of the themes of the Ramayana involve love and forgiveness between unexpected sources, even bitter rivals or mortal enemies. Still, though, from what I've read so far, Ravana doesn't seem like the type of villain who would essentially do a favor for his enemy and contribute to his own downfall.

Maybe someone can explain this better for me? Don't worry about "spoiling" the story for me; I'm sure I will still get spiritual uplift from the Ramayana. :)

Namaste,

I too cannot relate to verses but remember the story. I will try to recall it as much as possible.

After reaching Lanka, Sri Rama tried peace attempts. But he failed. It is customary to do a ritual. As seen generally avatars of Vishnu are shiva bhaktas. Sri Rama wanted to perform a Shiva puja for vicctory.

For that a Brahmin priest was required. Hence Ravana helped him in doing puja.

It is a said that Ranava knew the past , present and future and his descend on earth. This act would be helpful as he was cursed to fall down. Jaya and Vijay wanted to be killed by the Lord.

Other logic is that They all knew what would happen, what is right and what is wrong, but due to their ego, they would do what they should not.

Hari OM

[aupmanyav]

The part I'm referring to is the part where supposedly Sri Rama has to seek the blessing of a prominent priest (or whatever the proper title is) in order to defeat Ravana. The problem being for Rama is that the most prominent priest at the time of the story is none other than Ravana himself. And yet Ravana does the puja for Rama anyway.Apart from what other people might have said, Ravana was Jaya, the door keeper of Vaikuntha, and Kumbhakarna was Vijaya (under a curse from Sanathkumaras). And they wanted to return to Vaikuntha as soon as possible. That is why they selected to be bad people, as this enabled them to return after three births. Being good would have meant seven births and greater separation from their Lord (Vishnu). So it is natural that Ravana performed the puja so that Lord Rama defeats him.

[Ram11]

Quote:

Ravana merely started bearing the effects of his past Adharmic actions that would bring destruction upon himself.

Namaste,

I haven't come across this story. Can you provide the verse/sloka from Valmiki Raamayana.

Pranam...

Namaste Ji,

In the Vanaparva of the Mahabharata, Rishi Markandeya narrates Ramavatara to Yudhisthira.It is said there that when the vanara Angada went to Ravana's court as a messenger he declared to Ravana that it was (high) time to start bearing the result of his past Adharmic actions.

[renuka]

Namaste,

At times one starts to wonder..Was Ravana waiting to be killed by Lord Rama?
Did Ravana want an end to his life as soon as possible?

If one reads a stanza from Shiva Tandava Stotram composed by Ravana there he leaves no doubt that he wants to be released as soon as possible from his existence.

The stanza is:


Kada nilimpanirjhari nikujnjakotare vasanh
Vimuktadurmatih sada shirah sthamajnjalim vahanh
Vimuktalolalochano lalamabhalalagnakah
Shiveti mantramuchcharan sada sukhi bhavamyaham





13.1: When will I Dwell in a Cave within the Dense Woods by the side of the River Goddess Ganga and ...
13.2: ... being Free Forever from Sinful Mental Dispositions.. Worship Shiva Keeping my Hands on the Forehead?
13.3: When will I be Free from the Rolling of the Eyes (signifying lustful tendencies) and Worship Shiva applying the Sacred Mark on the Forehead?
13.4: When will I be Happy Uttering the Mantras of Shiva?




Well he did seemed sort of unhappy with his life from this stanza!

Anyway even if he did want to die fast..he knew that Lord Rama would not simply kill him for nothing at all or for a trivial matter..so Ravana had to think of a totally gross Adharmic act to make sure Lord Rama has a valid reason to kill him..so what the best method?

To kidnap one's wife..that's Adharmic and will surely swing Lord Rama into action.

So when we actually look at the Ramayan at a different perspective at times it seems that all Lord Rama cared for is Ravana and all Ravana wanted is to die in the hands of Lord Rama.

Its like a divine love story between a anti hero devotee and God.

[harih]

Namaste
There are many fanciful versions of the story whereas the original story in Valmiki Ramayana itself is so thought provoking.

In VR it is Akampana who narrowly escapes from the carnage of Khara etc at Janasthana͵ tells Ravana that he wont be able to kill Rama in a straight fight͵ hence its better to steal Sita first and make Rama dispirited in the forest. Hence Seethapaharanam was a tactical move as Rama all alone would not have been able to find out where Seetha was and rescue her.

The big lesson of Ramayana (one of the greatest detective stories of all time͵ in my opinion) is͵ it is impossible for a human to achieve his goals independently͵ no matter how Mahapurusha he is. Humans are born for coexistence͵ mutual support - with human and non-human beings.

[Ram11]

Namaste
There are many fanciful versions of the story whereas the original story in Valmiki Ramayana itself is so thought provoking.

In VR it is Akampana who narrowly escapes from the carnage of Khara etc at Janasthana͵ tells Ravana that he wont be able to kill Rama in a straight fight͵ hence its better to steal Sita first and make Rama dispirited in the forest. Hence Seethapaharanam was a tactical move as Rama all alone would not have been able to find out where Seetha was and rescue her.

The big lesson of Ramayana (one of the greatest detective stories of all time͵ in my opinion) is͵ it is impossible for a human to achieve his goals independently͵ no matter how Mahapurusha he is.Humans are born for coexistence͵ mutual support - with human and non-human beings.

Namaste Harih Ji,

I agree and thanks.:)

[TTCUSM]

Namaste HDF,

I have a question about a particular point in the Ramayana. Admittedly I haven't read that far into the Ramayana yet (it's a long book, even when translated into English by Ramesh Menon), but I did hear about one part of the Ramayana that is confusing to me. Again, I haven't gotten to this part yet, but if someone could explain it to me, that might help me understand the Ramayana better.

The part I'm referring to is the part where supposedly Sri Rama has to seek the blessing of a prominent priest (or whatever the proper title is) in order to defeat Ravana. The problem being for Rama is that the most prominent priest at the time of the story is none other than Ravana himself. And yet Ravana does the puja for Rama anyway.

Maybe there's something else in the Ramayana I haven't gotten to yet that would explain this, but right now I'm confused why Ravana would essentially doom himself by granting a blessing to his enemy. In another thread on the Ramayana I did read about how some of the themes of the Ramayana involve love and forgiveness between unexpected sources, even bitter rivals or mortal enemies. Still, though, from what I've read so far, Ravana doesn't seem like the type of villain who would essentially do a favor for his enemy and contribute to his own downfall.

Maybe someone can explain this better for me? Don't worry about "spoiling" the story for me; I'm sure I will still get spiritual uplift from the Ramayana. :)

Namaste Webimpulse,

There is a tendency to interpret the Ramayana as a black-and-white moral treatise, with Rama representing pure good and Ravana representing pure evil. The reality is significantly more complex, and incidents like this serve to highlight this complexity. The Rakshasas were not a race of purely evil beings; Ravana's brother Vibhisana was a devout Vaishnava, and he ended up joining the side of Rama and providing valuable intelligence during His battle with Ravana. This is confirmed by the following verse (http://asitis.com/10/30.html) from the Bhagavad Gita:


Chapter 10: The Opulence of the Absolute Bg 10.30
TEXT 30

prahladas casmi daityanam
kalah kalayatam aham
mrganam ca mrgendro 'ham
vainateyas ca paksinam

SYNONYMS
prahlādaḥ—Prahlāda; ca—also; asmi—I am; daityānām—of the demons; kālaḥ—time; kalayatām—of subduers; aham—I am; mṛgāṇām—of animals; ca—and; mṛgendraḥ—the lion; aham—I am; vainateyaḥ—Garuḍa; ca—also; pakṣiṇām—of birds.
TRANSLATION
Among the Daitya demons I am the devoted Prahlāda; among subduers I am time; among the beasts I am the lion, and among birds I am Garuḍa, the feathered carrier of Viṣṇu.
PURPORT
Diti and Aditi are two sisters. The sons of Aditi are called Ādityas, and the sons of Diti are called Daityas. All the Ādityas are devotees of the Lord, and all the Daityas are atheistic. Although Prahlāda was born in the family of the Daityas, he was a great devotee from his childhood. Because of his devotional service and godly nature, he is considered to be a representative of Kṛṣṇa.
There are many subduing principles, but time wears down all things in the material universe and so represents Kṛṣṇa. Of the many animals, the lion is the most powerful and ferocious, and of the million varieties of birds, Garuḍa, the bearer of Lord Viṣṇu, is the greatest.

[Anirudh]

There is a tendency to interpret the Ramayana as a black-and-white moral treatise, with Rama representing pure good and Ravana representing pure evil. The reality is significantly more complex, and incidents like this serve to highlight this complexity. The Rakshasas were not a race of purely evil beings; Ravana's brother Vibhisana was a devout Vaishnava, and he ended up joining the side of Rama and providing valuable intelligence during His battle with Ravana. This is confirmed by the following verse (http://asitis.com/10/30.html) from the Bhagavad Gita:


Namaste

There had been a similar thread in the past without valid proof behind the claim. Best resource to learn Ramayana is Code : 452 and Code : 453 at http://gitapress.org/english/Search_result.asp. Free resource are at http://www.valmikiramayan.net/, https://archive.org/details/Valmiki_Ramayana_English_Prose_Translation_7_volumes_by_Manmatha_Nath_Dutt_1891_to_1894

Hope this helps.

[svh]

namaskāraḥ


...

There had been a similar thread in the past without valid proof behind the claim. Best resource to learn Ramayana is Code : 452 and Code : 453 at http://gitapress.org/english/Search_result.asp. Free resource are at http://www.valmikiramayan.net/, https://archive.org/details/Valmiki_Ramayana_English_Prose_Translation_7_volumes_by_Manmatha_Nath_Dutt_1891_to_1894

...

Agree with Anirudh; the story has no basis in the original Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa.

There is another popular story of Rāvaṇa teaching 3 valuable lessons to Rāma and Lakṣmaṇa before he (Rāvaṇa) dies as indicated in this blog post (http://devdutt.com/articles/indian-mythology/ramayana/this-was-ravan-too.html) by Devdutt Pattanaik.

From http://devdutt.com/articles/indian-mythology/ramayana/this-was-ravan-too.html




The story goes that after firing the fatal arrow on the battlefield of Lanka, Ram told his brother, Lakshman, “Go to Ravan quickly before he dies and request him to share whatever knowledge he can. A brute he may be, but he is also a great scholar.” The obedient Lakshman rushed across the battlefield to Ravan’s side and whispered in his ears, “Demon-king, do not let your knowledge die with you. Share it with us and wash away your sins.” Ravan responded by simply turning away. An angry Lakshman went back to Ram, “He is as arrogant as he always was, too proud to share anything.” Ram comforted his brother and asked him softly, “Where did you stand while asking Ravan for knowledge?” “Next to his head so that I hear what he had to say clearly.” Ram smiled, placed his bow on the ground and walked to where Ravan lay. Lakshman watched in astonishment as his divine brother knelt at Ravan’s feet. With palms joined, with extreme humility, Ram said, “Lord of Lanka, you abducted my wife, a terrible crime for which I have been forced to punish you. Now, you are no more my enemy. I bow to you and request you to share your wisdom with me. Please do that for if you die without doing so, all your wisdom will be lost forever to the world.” To Lakshman’s surprise, Ravan opened his eyes and raised his arms to salute Ram, “If only I had more time as your teacher than as your enemy. Standing at my feet as a student should, unlike your rude younger brother, you are a worthy recipient of my knowledge. I have very little time so I cannot share much but let me tell you one important lesson I have learnt in my life. Things that are bad for you seduce you easily; you run towards them impatiently. But things that are actually good for you, fail to attract you; you shun them creatively, finding powerful excuses to justify your procrastination. That is why I was impatient to abduct Sita but avoided meeting you. This is the wisdom of my life, Ram. My last words. I give it to you.” With these words, Ravan died.




...but again that story has no basis in the original Rāmāyaṇa because Rāvaṇa instantly dies after Rāma's brahmāstra hits straight in his chest and he collapses. Following are some verses from Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa.


From http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/yuddha/sarga108/yuddhasans108.htm#Verse18:




(http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/yuddha/sarga108/yuddhasans108.htm#Verse18)
स विसृष्तो महावेगह् शरीरान्तकरः शरः | च्छेद हृदयं तस्य रावणस्य दुरात्मनः || ६-१०८-१८
18. That arrow, released with great speed and which was capable of destroying the body, tore off the heart of that evil-minded Ravana.

रुधिराक्तह् स वेगेन शरीरान्तकरः शरः | रावणस्य हरन् प्राणान् विवेश धरणीतलम् || ६-१०८-१९
19. That arrow, which was capable of causing death to the body, after taking away the life of Ravana and having been anointed with blood, penetrated the earth.

स शरो रावणं हत्वा रुधिरार्रीकृतच्छविः | कृतकर्मा निभृतवत्स्वतूणीं पुनराविशत् || ६-१०८-२०
20. Smeared with blood on having killed Ravana and thereby accomplishing its mission, that arrow re-entered its own quiver (of Rama) silently.

गतासुर्भीमवेगस्तु नैरृतेन्द्रो महाद्युतिः | पपात स्यन्दनाद्भूमौ वृत्रो वज्रहतो यथा || ६-१०८-२२
22. Having lost his life, that king of demons for his part, who was endowed with terrible swiftness and invested with great splendour, fell down from the chariot to the ground, like Vritra the demon when the latter was struck down by the thunderbolt.







...

The part I'm referring to is the part where supposedly Sri Rama has to seek the blessing of a prominent priest (or whatever the proper title is) in order to defeat Ravana. The problem being for Rama is that the most prominent priest at the time of the story is none other than Ravana himself. And yet Ravana does the puja for Rama anyway.

...



From what I heard, the recent TV show Siya Ke Raam (http://www.tellyupdate.co.in/2016/08/siya-ke-ram-3rd-august-2016-written-episode-update.html) showed the above line of story but a TV series cannot be considered authentic as their objective is entertainment so they source material from multiple scriptures and regional variations of the story.




The Episode starts with Raavan walking to Ram and everyone. Hanuman smiles and welcomes Raavan. Raavan goes to Ram. Ram greets him as Brahman ji and welcomes him. Vibhishan says Brahtashri and greets Raavan. Raavan looks at him. Ram folds hands and says you accepted your request, I will always be thankful to you, this is big prestige for me and Raghu kul that my father’s Shraddh will get completed by such a big Gyaani like you. Raavan says its time for puja, shall we sit. Ram says sure.



The truth is, Rāvaṇa actually sends Śuka and Sāraṇa to assess the strength of Rāma's vānara army and also possibly talk Rāma into resigning from the war. But Śuka and Sāraṇa get captured by the vānaras and later released on Rāma's request. They go back home and speak highly of Rāma's hospitality :) which irritates Rāvaṇa very much. They in fact try to convince Rāvaṇa into resigning after seeing Rama's strength and their preparations - the exact opposite effect of what Ravana intended :D ... so Rāvaṇa admonishes both of them:

From http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/yuddha/sarga29/yuddhasans29.htm#Verse6:




अधो मुखौ तौ प्रणताव् अब्रवीत् शुक सारणौ |
रोष गद्गदया वाचा सम्रब्धः परुषम् वचः || २-२९-६


6. (Ravana) abraviit = spoke; tau = to those; shuka saaraNau = Shuka and Sarana; praNatau = who saluted; adhomukhau = with their faces bent donw; vaachaa = in a voice; roSagadgadayaa = choked in anger; samrabdham = excited; tathaa = and paruSam = and harsh.

Ravana spoke (the following) excited and harsh words, in a voice choked in anger to Shuka and Sarana who stood saluting with their faces bent down.


न तावत् सदृशम् नाम सचिवैर् उपजीविभिः |
विप्रियम् नृपतेर् वक्तुम् निग्रह प्रग्रहे विभोः || २-२९-७
7. na taavatnaama = It is not; sadR^isham = befitting; vaktum = to utter; vipriyam = unpleasant words; upajivibhiH = by dependent; sachivaiH = ministers; nR^ipate = to their king; prabhoH = who has the power; nigrahe = to mete out punishment; pragrahe = or reward.
"It is not befitting to utter unpleasant words by dependent ministers to their king who has the power to mete out any punishment or reward."




रिपूणाम् प्रतिकूलानाम् युद्ध अर्थम् अभिवर्तताम् |
उभाभ्याम् सदृशम् नाम वक्तुम् अप्रस्तवे स्तवम् || २-२९-८
8. sadR^isham naama = Is it proper; vaktum = to utter; stavam = praise; vipuuNaam = of the enemies; pratikuulaanaam = who are adverse to us; abhivartataam = and who are coming; yuddhartham = for war; ubhaabhyaam = by both of you; aprastave = irrelevantly?
"Is it proper for both of you to shower irrelevant praise on our enemies who are adverse to us and are approaching for a war?"




Poor Śuka and Sāraṇa, I truly feel for them :D

That's just one of the examples where people try to talk sense into Rāvaṇa but he doesn't care much for their words.

Hope this helps.

- SV

[TTCUSM]

Namaste

There had been a similar thread in the past without valid proof behind the claim. Best resource to learn Ramayana is Code : 452 and Code : 453 at http://gitapress.org/english/Search_result.asp. Free resource are at http://www.valmikiramayan.net/, https://archive.org/details/Valmiki_Ramayana_English_Prose_Translation_7_volumes_by_Manmatha_Nath_Dutt_1891_to_1894

Hope this helps.






Thank you for the links Aniruddh.
However, the incident described in this thread does not necessarily have to appear in the Valmiki Ramayana; it can still appear in one of the many local variations, and as such, it still requires analysis from a theological perspective. It is most likely an allegory to represent the qualities of a good ruler.
One thing that most versions of the Ramayana will agree upon is that Lanka under Ravana's rule was the the ultimate sinful society.
With nothing in place to restrain people's desires, the fabric of that society inevitably collapsed as powerful people like Ravana were allowed to have whatever they wanted at the expense of the am aadmi.
As a result, the rulers try to satisfy their populace by providing them with minor concessions to keep them happy, as evidenced by Ravana's granting of a blessing to Sri Rama.
However, these concessions rarely go as far as necessary to satisfy the people, which means the problem is left unsolved.
If Ravana really did care about the citizens of Lanka, he would have returned Sita and prevented the destructive war from happening in the first place.

[Anirudh]

Namaste TTCUSM,

Srimad Raamaayana or Srimad Mahabharata are not story books. Sriman Naaraayan (paramaatma) needn't require the blessings of a Jeevaatma factually it is always the other way. If we understand both these points we won't get confused.

Namaste Svh,

Thanks for explaining the subject. If you get time and haven't listened yet, please listen to lakshmi kadaksham upanyasam from Sri U.Ve. Krishnan Swamigal.