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fem_phoenix1109
25 April 2014, 09:18 PM
Namaste,

I have come across another temple in my area that I was previously unaware of. It is called the Sri Saibaba Temple Society of Ohio: http://www.srisaimandir.org/Home.aspx. I really do not know much about the teachings of Sri Saibaba, but I am very curious and am thinking about visiting. Can anyone tell me what I might expect there?

Pranam.

Aanandinii
25 April 2014, 11:26 PM
Namaskar Fem-Phoenix,

Synchronicity fun, I've just been to my third Sri Sai Baba temple and was about to write about it. You don't mention if you know about his teachings, if not then it's worth running a few searches.

As I understand it and from what I have seen so far, Sri Sai Baba Shirdi is worshiped as an emanation, as opposed to an avatar, of God. Temples tend to be dominated by a large central pavilion on which is seated a white marble murti of Sri Sai Baba in iconic pose. Usually Nandi is facing Him from across the Temple, and in one case a Kurma was next to Nandi. The pavilion and throne is usually marble as well, and can be circumnavigated.

The pujas and aartis I've seen would all be familiar to you, just a few words and sometimes melody are a bit different.

There appears to be more than one sect, as each temple I have been to appeared unrelated to the other, the two in this country having different names and the websites not mentioning each other, despite being in neighboring towns - and one mentioned a sister temple on the other side of the State. Here in MA, the first was more general and had icons of all of the trinity and Mata Di in many forms. The second was more Shaivite in focus, with a large Lingam and Bal Ganesha on the main pavilion, a large, lovely Sri Durga Maa in front of the pavilion, and side area containing a smaller Sri Ram Parivar and Sri Radha Krishna.

~Pranam

fem_phoenix1109
26 April 2014, 08:20 AM
Namaste Aanandinii,

Thank you for the information. It does seem that we are on parallel paths, and whenever I have a question you have something current to share! I do not currently know much of his teachings, did a few google searches last night and following up with some reading this morning. There is lots of info out there. So is following Sai Baba a denomination of Hinduism in and of itself? It almost seems that way from what I am reading so far. If so I am wondering why it took me so long to stumble across it.

Namaste Ram116040,

So are you saying that devotees worship the man, and not the gods? Maybe that explains why I was having trouble discerning whether the temple would primarily Vishnaiva or Shaiva or other denomination. There are many pujas listed on the schedule, so I was planning on googling each one to find out more about who is being worshipped.

Pranam.

Anirudh
02 May 2014, 02:16 PM
Namaste

I don't want to spread hatred or lies but found this link is worth reading.


haribhakt.com/hindus-open-your-eyes-sai-baba-is-fake-god-exposed/

Eastern Mind
02 May 2014, 06:24 PM
Vannakkam: My take on anything controversial is that we are all Hindus. What someone else does is really none of my business. Having this perspective leads to very few hurt feelings, although occasionally it seems like some individuals go around looking to have their feelings hurt, and no matter what you say, they get upset. In other words, they interpret your neutrality or lack of extreme enthusiasm in a negative way, because they're sensitive people.

If something doesn't make sense to me, that's my business. Others have to figure out what does or doesn't make sense to them.

We have a Shirdi Sai Baba temple in my city, but I've never been. I'm more likely to go to one that is out of town actually. I might run into somebody locally that I know, and be approached for support. Then I could hurt them if they're sensitive because that's life.

I think it's great that Fem and Aanandini are going off to several temples. How else does one learn? I look forward to more reports.

Aum Namasivaya

Who am i
03 May 2014, 08:48 PM
Namaste

I don't want to spread hatred or lies but found this link is worth reading.


haribhakt.com/hindus-open-your-eyes-sai-baba-is-fake-god-exposed/


Anirudh

I dont want to fight but this post in that website is very bad. Lord Krishna is everywhere and he will be surely hurt by this post.

Who am i
03 May 2014, 09:05 PM
Namaste,

I request members to forgive me if what I have expressed below hurts any individual's sentiments.

I respect every person's right to believe and worship whatever pleases him/her.

For Hindus,whom to worship and how to worship has already been told in the scriptures.

Sri Shridi Sai Baba was a great saint(probably a Sufi saint).Saints need be respected.

Om! Bhadram karnebhih s'rnuyāma devāh
bhadram pasyemākṣabhiryajatrāh
sthirairangaistushtuvam sastanūbhir
vyaśema devahitam yadāyuh.

sthirairangaistushtuvam sastanūbhir
vyaśema devahitam yadāyuh

Devas are to be worshiped not human beings.

I cannot understand why people deify some famous human beings and elevate them to the status of Devas and invent mantras and rituals.

Those of us who believe in the Veda Dharma (Vaishnavas,Shakteyas,Shaivas,Smartas etc.) must worship only Devatas.IMHO it is always better to stay away from worshiping forces that are not sanctioned by the scriptures.

Ram

I respect you but cant agree with your comments.

Then can you let me know why we are having statues of Ramanujar,Alwars in Vaishnavas temples and worshipping them? I believe that SadGuru is Iswara in human form and we should worship them to attain liberation.Even Vedanta desikar has emphazised Guru Bhakthi more than Iswara Bhakthi.

Shridi Baba like Ramunjar was a Sad Guru and they always took care of his devotees.

Even Kanchi Parmacharya has emphazised on Guru Bhakthi:

http://www.kamakoti.org/acall/ac-gurubhakti.html

fem_phoenix1109
04 May 2014, 07:34 AM
Namaste, and thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this. I am glad that all different viewpoints are being shared, so that we may look at it from all angles.

So if I am understanding correctly, the main point of controversy regarding Sri Sai Baba is that his devotees worship him in the same manner as a devata is worshipped, or in fact they worship him as an actual god? I notice from the puja schedule on the website, that each day is dedicated to a different deity, Saibaba included. I still need to look up all of the meanings of the different pujas on the schedule though, but it looks like even on days that are dedicated to other gods Sai Baba is worhsipped at the same time.

So would I not be able to go here and worship lord Shiva, or any of the other gods being honored?

Pranam.

edit: here is the pooja schedule I am referring to: http://www.srisaimandir.org/Services/DailyPoojaServices.aspx

Who am i
04 May 2014, 09:56 AM
Namaste,

"I believe that SadGuru is Iswara in human form and we should worship them to attain liberation."

Guru takes the disciple closer to a Devata and guides & protects like parent does but does a guru himself grant liberation?I thought that was done by Devatas such Sri Narayana,Sri Devi and Sri Shiva etc.

Bhagavat Sri Ramanujacharya(Vishishtadvaita),Sri Shankara Bhagavatpadacharya(Advaita),Sri Madhvacharya(Dvaita),Srimad Vallabhacharya(Shuddhadvaita) are considered Gurus for a reason.They have expounded the meaning of the Vedas,Upanishads,Brahma Sutras etc.They have written extensive commentaries and proposed their own systems.They are respected, honored & remembered but not worshiped as Devatas.

We honor these great Acharyas to thank them and keep their images to remind ourselves to follow the path shown by them.


Since you have compared the said saint with Srimad Ramanujacharya, may I know if that saint had proposed a new interpretation of the Vedic scriptures?May I know his Sampradaya,his Guru-Parampara?May I know the name of his philosophy that needs to be studied on par with other interpretations of the Veda-Vedanta?

I'll repeat what I said before:
I respect every person's right to believe and worship whatever pleases him/her.

For Hindus,whom to worship and how to worship has already been told in the scriptures.

IMHO it is always better to stay away from worshiping forces that are not sanctioned by the scriptures.

P.S. Certain Agama Shastras do not permit installation of human statues as deities.




Ram

Thanks for reply.Please note i worship Ramunaja same as other SadGurus.Both are saints of highest order and practically speaking they are different avatars of same Saguna Brahman.

Shridi Sai baba is Guru of highest order (kaivalya) like Ramunjar,Sadhasiva Brahmendar,Kulandainda swamigal,Trilanga Swamigal and there is no difference between them or Lord Siva or Lord Rama.There is no way we can compare one with another.

So i believe that SadGuru can give liberation directly as there is no difference between them and Other devatas.Even Saint Raghavendra gave mukthi to his discipline( You may have heard From life history of Raghavendra).

About your queries,Shridi Sai baba followed Advaita and it is said that his Guru is Lord Dattatreya.(More details can be found on Sai Charita).I agree that Scriptures has provided lot of rules but i think many of things are not possible in Kali Yuga.

As said,im really sorry if i have hurt your feelings by any way as my intention is to share my view on this.

Aanandinii
06 May 2014, 10:19 PM
Namaskar ji,


So if I am understanding correctly, the main point of controversy regarding Sri Sai Baba is that his devotees worship him in the same manner as a devata is worshipped, or in fact they worship him as an actual god? I notice from the puja schedule on the website, that each day is dedicated to a different deity, Saibaba included. I still need to look up all of the meanings of the different pujas on the schedule though, but it looks like even on days that are dedicated to other gods Sai Baba is worhsipped at the same time.

So would I not be able to go here and worship lord Shiva, or any of the other gods being honored? We really do seem to be on the same path, I find it wonderful and have been very glad to 'meet' you. =)

The quick answer here is 'Depends'. With respect to Ram ji and WhoAmI ji, to most of his Devotees Sri Sai Baba is not perceived as "Human" or a SatGuru. While some call him an Avatar of Shiva, others say Shiva doesn't have Avatars but Emanations and Sri Sai Baba Shirdi is an Emanation of Shiva.

The days dedicated to specific Gods are normal for some areas of North India - Every place in India dedicates days to Gods, but I mean these specific days to these specific Gods. Sri Sai Baba would be the focus of the pujas, They may or may not have other icons or murtis. Since Sri Sai is seen as God Shiva in material form, the Day's Deity is largely worshiped through him. The last temple I went to had a Lingam and other Murtis that anyone can worship and offer to, but any arcana or puja is largely directed at Sai Baba. He is central and Nandi faces him. However, I did go to a Vishnu Temple in Hyderabad that had a large shrine to Sri Sai Baba in it, and he seemed to be worshiped more as a SatGuru there. The Temple was gorgeous.

I am not saying here that any of this is my belief, but just what I have been able to understand from my visits so far and from reading about him when I was younger. I see Sri Sai Baba as an enlightened Human, possibly a SatGuru but that's not a judgement I'm comfortable attempting to make. When I go to His Temples, I respect him as a Realized Saint and Guru of possibly the highest order, and I bow to Shiva in him as I bow to Shiva in most things. But I give my offerings and prayers to the Icons I am comfortable with, and they are always there in some form or another for those that wish them - sometimes central and sometimes not.

Some of the contention around Sri Sai Baba is that He was a Universalist. He was far beyond tolerance and entirely inclusive, pointing out the similar core doctrines between Sanatana Dharma and Abarhamic faiths, reputed by some to have mixed worship rituals and practiced a little of all. I honor efforts to bring people together in peace, but some seem take the message to be that the two root religions are so alike as to be almost the same. That is something I don't personally agree with, though I do agree with EM ji and WhoAMI ji that "To each his/her own". =) We each experience God differently.

I would encourage you to go, at least once.
This became an interesting conversation. Thank you all for expressing your thoughts.

~Pranams

Sahasranama
08 July 2014, 02:24 PM
Vannakkam: My take on anything controversial is that we are all Hindus.
Except that Sai Baba was not a Hindu. Hindus worshipping a fakir with as much regard as a real devata is simply disgusting.

devotee
08 July 2014, 10:47 PM
Namaste Fem,

Sai Baba enjoys a very high place among most of the Hindus. You won't find much difference there as compared to other temples. The flowers, sweets, coconuts offerings and singing bhajans (spiritual songs) etc. are all the same.

Some members have raised the issue that Swami Swaroopananda has raised. It is highly unfortunate that Swami ji is indulging into such petty politics over worship. Hindus believe in divinity of "everything" and every being. We have no doubts as the Abrahimic religions-followers have ... "what to worship and what not". We have a history, a glorious history of worshipping a piece of stone (as Brahma devata in many villages), a tree, river, mountain, planets, star, animals, rodent and even insect like Snake. We worship our mother, father, guests, husband, wife, daughter, teachers etc. etc. There is no Pope/Mullah in Hindu to issue fatwa over what to worship and what not and we don't need one.

"He who sees differences here goes from death to death" --- Kathopanishad
"He (God) became what he was worshipped as" ... Mudgala Upanishad

It is not name or form which is important in worship because "Isavasyam idam sarvam" (everything is pervaded through and through by God alone) ... it is your bhaav (feeling) towards the object of worship. One should read the story of a Guru and innocent disciple on this issue where disciple worshipped his Guru as God and disciple was helped by God in the form of his Guru whereas Guru himself was unable to receive the grace of God due to his own ego.

OM

Ganeshprasad
09 July 2014, 02:41 AM
Pranam devotee ji

Perhaps swami ji is playing politics or perhaps he is not well read in shastra or perhaps he is distinguishing from Vedic and unVedic least we have mandir built for Bollywood stars like Amitabh or Tandulkar or Dhoni
Where do we stop applying this logic of yours!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Amrut
09 July 2014, 04:34 AM
Namaste,

I would not wholly agree with my friends here. I hold a different position w.r.t Sai Baba.

I had a divine experience with Sai Baba at shirdi. So I am not willing to compromise his divinty and ability to perform miracles, but at the same time, I am not willing to compromise our vedic dharma too.

Sai Baba was a mystic or say a Guru, but not an acharya who would adhere to a siddhanta.

I would revere Sai Baba as a mystic, as a Nath Siddha or even as a Self Realized Guru, but not as a DevatA like we revere Rama and Krishna.

It is true that God manifests in all living and non-living. Even stone is a yonI. But as we say in hindi 'abhivyakti kI mAtrA mei antar hai' meaning that the power of manifestation is different in different being. Even in our body, it is said that God resides in our heart.

Vedic mantras cannot be and should not be altered, as there is a science connected with it. These mantras are powerful vibrations which open and cleanse nADI-s. Our shastas give a definite way of worship and ensures our spiritual progress.

I am disappointed when I see something like OP mentioned Nandi in front of Sai Baba, and as some say, Hanuman joining hands and adorning feet of Sai Baba or Ganesha sitting on shoulder of Sai Baba.

Even nArada is mentioned as an avatAra of viShNu. Do we see his temples being worshipped as Godhead himself? worst do we see him sitting with mA laxmI adorning and serving nArada munI's feet? How will you feel?

There are a lot many saints considered as an avatar including Veda Vyas, the great Vishvamitra and 7 rishis. They are all called as brahma-rishis and not bhagavAna. Adi Sankara is too considered as an avatar of Shiva, but he is not worshiped as God himself. These all saints come in 'saint category' Admittedly there may be one or two temples dedicated to Adi Sankara, but his teachings are given more importance then his 'godliness'.

Similarly there are many saints like Jnandev, etc who are not worshipped as Gods, but are highly revered as Guru and considered Ishvara-tulya, but not Ishvara.

A lot of things are happening in the name of Sai Baba. One TV serial said that there is one temple of Sai Baba in N. Delhi saying that 'Sai Baba mandir, A franchise of Sai Trust'. then some people with vested interest will take advantage, though this happens everywhere.

Honestly, most people are attracted towards the 'problem solving ability' of Sai Baba than Sai Baba himself. If Sai Baba didnt performed miracles, then how many bhaktas would have worshiped Sai Baba? How many worship Sai Baba just for having his darshan and want nothing else? How many pray to Sai Baba for Brahma-jnana?

If we are interested in his teachings, then we can incorporate his teachings while still adhering to our own vedic dharma. Shraddha and Saburi can be surely incorporated in our lives without any compromise of our own dharma. We can surely serve poor. Nothing wrong or objectionable in doing so.

What I feel is that the 'symbol of hindu-muslim unity' would mean to melt away the bitterness for each other. It does not mean that we will read koran or we will follow their customs.

Surely the way in which Dwarka Shankaracharya said was bitter, but there is something to ponder on his thoughts.

If people will build temples of their Guru, what will happen in a few 100 years. I have heard that there is already a temple dedicated to Amitabh Bacchan.

Saying from Neutral POV, there is a temple of Ramdev Peer in Rajasthan. Did anyone find it's authenticity in Puranas? Why it is not questioned?

Hari OM

devotee
09 July 2014, 04:35 AM
Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

So nice to see you posting again after a long gap ! How are you ?

As far as worshiping Sai Baba is concerned, I think we are taking it to extremes by seeing at the same level as worshiping Bollywood Heroes/heroines. BTW, let me tell you one thing : Long back I read one woman's article in one Weekly Newsletter. She used to worship the image of Meena Kumari as goddess Durga and she claimed that she (Meena Kumari's form of Goddess Durga) used to solve all her daily problems of life ! (PS : I don't advocate worshiping Meena Kumari image as we have better sattvic images to worship but this story is also true.).

Anyway, worshiping an established name and form is certainly advisable but should we dictate terms to people who want to worship some other forms of their choice ? I myself consider that Sai Baba was a great saint and I keep his image in my pooja room in my house. Now, if someone tells me that I am not a Hindu because I keep Sai Baba image in my shrine then there will be problem ... nobody has any business to interfere with my belief system ... at least not in Hindu Dharma.

I will leave this topic here and now. People have every right to have their own views.

OM

Ganeshprasad
09 July 2014, 07:43 AM
Pranam devotee ji


Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

So nice to see you posting again after a long gap ! How are you ?

Thanks, I am good hope everything is fine your end.



As far as worshiping Sai Baba is concerned, I think we are taking it to extremes by seeing at the same level as worshiping Bollywood Heroes/heroines.

OM

So you are prepared to draw a line somewhere, personally there is no contest only Vedic gods/goddess. Otherwise we become a laughing stock.

Jai Shree Krishna

renuka
10 July 2014, 05:47 AM
Namaste,

I have come across another temple in my area that I was previously unaware of. It is called the Sri Saibaba Temple Society of Ohio: http://www.srisaimandir.org/Home.aspx. I really do not know much about the teachings of Sri Saibaba, but I am very curious and am thinking about visiting. Can anyone tell me what I might expect there?

Pranam.


Dear Phoenix,

Always remember that "when there is a sincere devotee..the Lord will be your charioteer"

If you want to go to the temple..just go..If you dont want to go..dont go..dont let anyone influence you in anyway..the decision has to be yours.

What to expect anywhere differs according to individual perception..but to know if a drink is sweet we would need to taste it first...so the choice is yours.

renuka
11 July 2014, 11:31 PM
Technically a human being is supposed to be the highest being in the evolution scale.

When we Hindus worship life forms that are not human like snakes for example(but done in the understanding that God resides in all creatures)..there is Nag Panchami was we all know..and now some seem to be patenting Nandi as being a Hindu when Nandi belongs to the Bovine species which I never knew came with a religion..so what is the big deal if Shiridi Baba is worshiped?

After all I am 100% sure He lived up to ideals that no one in this Forum or anywhere else can ever even imagine.

satay
13 July 2014, 11:34 AM
Admin Note
Irrelevant posts deleted.