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Viraja
06 August 2014, 08:59 AM
Namaste,

In a recent facebook post, Swami U.Ve.Velukkudi Krishnan says,

"சரணாகதனிடம் இருப்பது (முக்தியில்) இச்சை. அவன் எதிர்பார்ப்பது (இறைவனின்) இரக்கம். அவனடைவது (கண்ணனின்) இனிமை. இதுவே ஆழ்வார்களின் 4000 ஸாரம்."

It means, "A 'sharanAgathA' or 'one who has surrendered to the Lord' desires for moksha. He expects Lord's mercy (towards this goal of his). He attains the sweetness of Sri Krishna. This is the essence of the 4000-divya-prabandha".

Sometime back I remember a conversation wherein members opined that the highest goal for human life is 'not to desire for anything including one's own moksha and to yearn to serve others'. This seems to be the right answer for me, due to which I am questioning why our beloved Alwars said the above in the 4000-divya-prabandha.

Is it that even when someone works for others, when old-age and sickness embrace us, we would naturally look for 'moksha' and freedom from the cycle of birth and death? A related question - is it possible to be free of any desire at all? Even people who serve others are possessed with desire for name, fame or riches. Given this, is it wrong to desire for one's moksha while serving others?

Why do our scriptures emphasize that desiring (and working towards) moksha is the highest ideal when it should be serving others? Are there other siddhantas that recommend differently?

Pranam.

grames
06 August 2014, 09:28 AM
Dear Viraja ji.,

You have asked a wonderful question and also the quote from U.Ve.V. Krishnan swami is the entire 4000 prapandam in one single line. I am just giving my opinion here as this is very interesting aspect of "Saranagathi"

The desire is the driver for every jiva and no one can be with out desire - its the very practical fact as well for any form of life be it micro organism or human or much more developed life like that of devas.

When Moksha is desired, it is desired as the remedy for the samsara - its like going to USA from india will change your life to problem free and its all heaven kind of "desire". A mere promise of "heaven like" place and trouble free life motivates large number of students and professionals to make it their life ambition and aim and work hard to pursue that desire as their goal! In fact, every life form desire the "Moksha" but may be with different understanding but surely with the aim of "not going through" the spell of time and samsara in a single word.

Once the desire drives you to the feet of Kannan, remember He is the naughty playboy and steal you completely in His fold! You take one step towards Him to get your objective of Moksha but He plays His pranks and takes 10 steps towards you to make you feel wonderful, joyful and give you the experience of bliss! Surrendering is like no more step towards Him but anchored to His lotus feet and imagine what Kannan has to do for such surrendered Jiva. He simply surrenders Himself back - this is the Anubhava of the Alwars and thus the goal of "Moksha" itself no longer have any merit as they have got the "Ultimate Price" of Moksha Dayi Himself! ( Gotten the giver of Moksha Himself as their gift)

This is the beauty of "SaranaGati" where you get the Moksha Giver Himself rather than just Moksha! So, not desiring Moksha is a dull situation and once desired moksha, it should be sought from Kannan and then everything else will be beyond what you have desired!

Being Desireless is impossible - even for Budda! Its a separate topic and don't want to jump there.

Desire Moksha and surrender to the lotus feet of Little Kanna...He will give Himself!

Hare Krshna!

Viraja
06 August 2014, 10:29 AM
Thank you, Grames ji! Appreciate your reply.



The desire is the driver for every jiva and no one can be with out desire - its the very practical fact as well for any form of life be it micro organism or human or much more developed life like that of devas.


Exactly it is the above point that bewildered me. Because someone working towards moksha will be focusing his/her time in praying/chanting, or doing raja-yoga, etc. Whereas someone 'desireless except for serving others' will invest his time in a completely different manner...


When Moksha is desired, it is desired as the remedy for the samsara - its like going to USA from india will change your life to problem free and its all heaven kind of "desire". A mere promise of "heaven like" place and trouble free life motivates large number of students and professionals to make it their life ambition and aim and work hard to pursue that desire as their goal! In fact, every life form desire the "Moksha" but may be with different understanding but surely with the aim of "not going through" the spell of time and samsara in a single word.

Exactly! Moksha is seen as 'just another desire'... but given an ordinary Samsari (that is, someone who does not invest much of time in serving others) has the initial goal of 'yearning for moksha', then this desire (being the noblest one that humans can have) will transform him owing to the power of the Lord that he will eventually become a 'karma-yogi' and someone who serves others without desires... Whereas even if it is someone who has the intial goal of serving others (but without any desire for moksha) will eventually be possessed with 'I the doer ahamkara' and be possessed with name/fame/glory pitfalls and he will not do his services to others without desire eventually...


Once the desire drives you to the feet of Kannan, remember He is the naughty playboy and steal you completely in His fold! You take one step towards Him to get your objective of Moksha but He plays His pranks and takes 10 steps towards you to make you feel wonderful, joyful and give you the experience of bliss! Surrendering is like no more step towards Him but anchored to His lotus feet and imagine what Kannan has to do for such surrendered Jiva. He simply surrenders Himself back - this is the Anubhava of the Alwars and thus the goal of "Moksha" itself no longer have any merit as they have got the "Ultimate Price" of Moksha Dayi Himself! ( Gotten the giver of Moksha Himself as their gift)

Yes, the playfulness and 'mischief' of the Lord do not have enough words to describe... the Lord very much represents the very fact that he is actually a 'chor' (thief) of one's Atma (by his moving towards the bhakta) by his playful leelas..


This is the beauty of "SaranaGati" where you get the Moksha Giver Himself rather than just Moksha! So, not desiring Moksha is a dull situation and once desired moksha, it should be sought from Kannan and then everything else will be beyond what you have desired!


I too feel that when someone works towards moksha, their personality will transform to the sweetest and noblest possible, owing to the Lord's mercy towards his devotee and his rendering of his uplifting guidance to them. Without Lord's mercy, someone cannot attain the sweetest of the dispositions possible!


Being Desireless is impossible - even for Budda! Its a separate topic and don't want to jump there.

Desire Moksha and surrender to the lotus feet of Little Kanna...He will give Himself!

Hare Krshna!

So moksha it is.. :)

Hare Krishna!

grames
07 August 2014, 01:19 PM
Dear Viraja Ji.,

Your response in this message as well as one another message in another thread tempted me to write this. You must be very nice and kind and that is what i see as reasons behind sticking to this "Serving" others but with different meanings. In tamil, there is a saying that "Makkal SevaiAy Mahesan Sevai" ( Service to people is service to Lord). Its a very noble saying and very inspirational as well. We call the service minded people generally as "Good" and if we know such person is doing the service with no expectation in return, we consider them great.

But, are you aware that meaning of this sentence is not this generic and also such seva alone does not constitute what you said as "KarmaYoga"? My mother always tells me to love everyone, do good for everyone and show the best hospitality towards any being! Once i asked her, in my limited capacity and capability, i cannot even know more than few thousands people and forget about me loving them all in first place before thinking of "Serving" them or showing hospitality etc! Also what about "Loving" a theif, murderer, rsi abuser, people cheater etc. For her it was too much of a question and she will just ignore my question and stick to her phrase that we should love everyone with out discrimination! Such thoughts are because of the good heart and love is blind is what the excuse is.

As i was curious and wanted to know, i learnt there are other sayings that are also required to be consistent and really good. One of them is, "paathiram arinthu pichai idu" ( Know who you give biksha) but it should not be literally translated as "bhiksha" but any form of "Service". It accounts to KarmaYoga only when it is done with proper knowledge of who is the recipient and their Yogyata (Qualification) - As a parent, the kids, as Kids the parents, As a teacher, to the students, as students to the teacher and this list goes on where it guides the people whom they should/can serve! The best of service is engaging in the service of Lord! ( This is what is called "Kaingaryam" - The most noble act of service for any being)

Not every act is a service, not every service is KarmaYoga and KarmaYoga properly done will result in Bhakthi - and its Bhakthi alone that result in the grace of Little Kannan! A Gyani does not practice Gyana Yoga to attain Siddhis but to attain the "Samadhi" or the Moksha. But, in Vaishanva schools, for Bhakthi, Gyana is requirement and Bhakthi is culmination of Karma and Gyana and with out proper information, there is no way to "experience" the Lord and admitting our inability to practice Karma or Gyana, our acharyas has recommended the most simple and easy path of "SaranaGati" where everyone is qualified to surrender! When Krshna Gives Himself, its not just a "Moksha" and so not sure what is your ending sentence means - Krshna is a much much worthier gift/achievement than "Moksha" itself! But desire that Moksha is the motivation to get engaged in to the process...

Serving Krshna is like watering the root of the plant - When root is served, every part of the tree gains the water and like that, Serving Krshna brings every benefit every being deserve! ( This is the real Seva - Kaingaryam).

Hare Krshna!

Viraja
07 August 2014, 03:08 PM
Dear Grames ji,

Please find my thoughts below:



Your response in this message as well as one another message in another thread tempted me to write this. You must be very nice and kind and that is what i see as reasons behind sticking to this "Serving" others but with different meanings. In tamil, there is a saying that "Makkal SevaiAy Mahesan Sevai" ( Service to people is service to Lord). Its a very noble saying and very inspirational as well. We call the service minded people generally as "Good" and if we know such person is doing the service with no expectation in return, we consider them great.

Well, as I said in the OP, this thought of 'serving others selflessly' isn't mine. I just borrowed the thought from another forum - perhaps the other member who originally raised the question is into seva, I do not know... but your praises truly belong to him.

After I posted my reply to you yesterday, I was thinking about this 'seva vs. devotion for moksha' question that was still puzzling me. And honestly, I think that if there is anyone born with that kind of disposition, (of serving others selflessly being the only motto for life), that would be a mere .1% of the population in the world. For the remaining 99.9%, we are all given to desires of some form being the root cause of our existence. So if those gifted .1% can focus on upliftment of others, we - the 99.9% do need bhakti-marga to make ourselves better people! And thus, aiming for 'moksha' or better yet, (as you say), to yearn for getting one with the lord, IS the best possible alternative for us, that would both direct our desires to the right goal as well as gradually move us towards 'serving Mahesha' ultimately!


But, are you aware that meaning of this sentence is not this generic and also such seva alone does not constitute what you said as "KarmaYoga"? My mother always tells me to love everyone, do good for everyone and show the best hospitality towards any being! Once i asked her, in my limited capacity and capability, i cannot even know more than few thousands people and forget about me loving them all in first place before thinking of "Serving" them or showing hospitality etc! Also what about "Loving" a theif, murderer, rsi abuser, people cheater etc. For her it was too much of a question and she will just ignore my question and stick to her phrase that we should love everyone with out discrimination! Such thoughts are because of the good heart and love is blind is what the excuse is.

Your mother is very kind. Yes, I now understand what is Karma-yoga - to serve others but be wise about the same. Thank you for making this clarification. Perhaps 'loving everyone' means not taking aggressive action against anyone (unless the situation asks for it) but be a mere 'observer' - a witness... I wonder how Bhagwan would love all created beings then - because our scriptures say that moksha is for everyone, and this means every abuser out there gets reviewed by lord beneficially at some point of time!


As i was curious and wanted to know, i learnt there are other sayings that are also required to be consistent and really good. One of them is, "paathiram arinthu pichai idu" ( Know who you give biksha) but it should not be literally translated as "bhiksha" but any form of "Service". It accounts to KarmaYoga only when it is done with proper knowledge of who is the recipient and their Yogyata (Qualification) - As a parent, the kids, as Kids the parents, As a teacher, to the students, as students to the teacher and this list goes on where it guides the people whom they should/can serve! The best of service is engaging in the service of Lord! ( This is what is called "Kaingaryam" - The most noble act of service for any being)

Perfect! Perhaps the best karma-yoga possible is to do service "Kaingaryam" to the Lord (and his devotees) without expecting anything from him!


Not every act is a service, not every service is KarmaYoga and KarmaYoga properly done will result in Bhakthi - and its Bhakthi alone that result in the grace of Little Kannan! A Gyani does not practice Gyana Yoga to attain Siddhis but to attain the "Samadhi" or the Moksha. But, in Vaishanva schools, for Bhakthi, Gyana is requirement and Bhakthi is culmination of Karma and Gyana and with out proper information, there is no way to "experience" the Lord and admitting our inability to practice Karma or Gyana, our acharyas has recommended the most simple and easy path of "SaranaGati" where everyone is qualified to surrender! When Krshna Gives Himself, its not just a "Moksha" and so not sure what is your ending sentence means - Krshna is a much much worthier gift/achievement than "Moksha" itself! But desire that Moksha is the motivation to get engaged in to the process...

Sorry, Grames ji, my small brain misunderstood your original reply. It did not occur to me you were saying 'the best aim or ideal for human life is to aim to get the lord himself', I thought you were saying moksha is the best ideal. Now I stand clarified. Thank you.

Your above paragraph clarifies about the role of bhakti and gyana and how they both together play a role in acquiring true bhakti that will help us in procuring the lord's love.. But please tell me, how can one do 'Sharanagathi'? I mean, what are the actions performed by someone who does 'Sharanagathi'? Is it akin to welcoming whatever happens to us and our beloved (kith and kin) and rendering Kainkaryam to Lord without fail?


Serving Krshna is like watering the root of the plant - When root is served, every part of the tree gains the water and like that, Serving Krshna brings every benefit every being deserve! ( This is the real Seva - Kaingaryam).

Hare Krshna!

I agree to the above very much!

Hare Krishna!

grames
07 August 2014, 03:42 PM
Dear Viraja Ji.,

Here is the fantastic dialogue - i am sharing the link as i do not want to copy paste -

I recommend to take a print out of this page - Read it as many times as you want and can - Because, i do learn one new thing every time i read this dialogue about saranagati

Here is the link
Saranagati Dialogue (http://anudinam.org/2014/06/11/saranagati-a-dialogue/)

Hare Krshna!

Viraja
07 August 2014, 05:50 PM
Thank you for the great link, Grames ji!

Viraja
08 August 2014, 03:05 PM
Namaste Grames ji,

I went through the link once. Although there were many points I couldn't understand too much, the read had been still very useful and interesting. I definitely know much more about Saranagati now than before.

However, Saranagati seems to be quite far-fetched for me at this point. I'm not sure if this is the proper bhakti-yoga, but I practice ahimsa and my devotional practice consists of recitation of stotras and mantras for about 45 min each day. Other than that, I celebrate all SriVaishnava festivals and functions.

But being still an ordinary person, I am afraid I am prone to (lots of) anger, and even a little-bit of 'Asooyai' (jealousy) taints my personality. Owing to this, I am afraid of doing Saranagati because then I have to be very, very careful not to do any 'apachara' or mistake to anybody, especially if they are Lord's (and mother Mahalakshmi's) other devotees...

Maybe 'Saranagati' is not written for me in this life... although I am filled with gratitude to the Lord for rendering us this kind of 'upaaya' (or means) for reaching upto him and mother Mahalakshmi.

Thank you,

Viraja

grames
11 August 2014, 02:36 PM
Dear Viraja ji.,

Namaste! Interesting post and it reminds me of Sri Ve. Krishnan swami's advice. Moksha is actually "Far fetched" (Yetta Kani) but attainable and that is the promise of our beloved Kannan! (mam ekam saranam vraja)

You stated the perfect qualification and eligibility to take up the process as this is for us, the fallen and incapable on our own efforts! If at all, we were sure that we can do all by ourselves, we will choose Bhakthi Yoga or Jnana Yoga etc. but at least we are honest and humble about our great inability and weakness and that is the path of "SaranaGati"!

So, its the best qualification to know what we are not...and with confidence you can know the fact that, saranaGati is for people like us who are weak, meek, ordinary, with no iota of knowledge, complete ignorance, with anger, jealousy etc. and by the grace of the Acharyas like Shri Ramanuja, Lord has made it possible for even fallen souls like us a chance to redeem!

Perfection here is, taking up the path and not how well you travel it! ( You will be alright and do best once you take the first step). Fear Not!

Hare Krshna!

renuka
18 August 2014, 08:28 PM
Namaste,

The Highest Ideal of Human Life is being Human...which is easier said than done.

grames
20 August 2014, 11:02 AM
Namaste.,

Such definition then require universal understanding and agreement on what is "Human". Isn't wise if one such universal definition is already there and we spend time and energy to understand that and "Agree" to it?

The definition of Human is available in the form of what is his/her birth purpose and thus the duties - Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha! The final emancipation can be possible only if the individual's gain the details of what is "Dharma", "Artha" and Kama and how they practice these to be eligible for the ultimate gift of Moksha! Such is the "Highest Goal of Human life".

Disagreement with out facts is the root cause and the power behind not able to know the "universal definition" is your own karma! When everyone has their own idea of what is "Human", we do take advantage of it to our personal interests and that is not "Human" as per the universal definition of "Sanatana Dharma"!

Hare Krshna!

yajvan
20 August 2014, 02:12 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Namaste,

The Highest Ideal of Human Life is being Human...which is easier said than done.

I hear what you say and if I may I'd would like to take the opportunity of word-smithing what you have said to a slightly different point of view.

To lose one's Self to a form is being human; To live one's life as one's own Self is a human being. A human being it's essential (sāraḥ¹) natural Self.

iti śivaṁ

1. sāraḥ - the substance or essence or marrow or cream or heart or essential part of anything ; sārat sāram or 'the very best'.

Viraja
20 August 2014, 03:14 PM
Namaste,

The Highest Ideal of Human Life is being Human...which is easier said than done.

Dear Renuka ji,

I only kept quiet (after reading your post above) because isn't it said 'To err is human'? :) (So the highest ideal is 'to avoid being the erring human' is it not?).

yajvan
20 August 2014, 05:11 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté


To lose one's Self to a form is being human; To live one's life as one's own Self is a human being. A human being it's essential (sāraḥ¹) natural Self.


1. sāraḥ - the substance or essence or marrow or cream or heart or essential part of anything ; sārat sāram or 'the very best'.

What is this losing one's Self to a form mean ? It means that the awareness of Self is lost to the human condition of only being 'me'. This 'me' is this small constrained ego-centric human form that is bound by height, width , depth, birth and death (time).
Yet to live one's life as Self ( which is our real nature) is to live Being in its fullness ... it is now the shoe on the other foot - it is the human being Self.
Then one is no longer annoyed with birth/death , ego driven things of life. One is now living their true dignity of this stainless level of Being.
This is the core and essence ( goal ) of all of our āgama-s & śāstra-s which fulfills the intent of sanātana dharma .

iti śivaṁ

grames
21 August 2014, 10:17 AM
Dear Yajavan Ji.,

Your message here even after one explanation is very confusing honestly. :). I feel so because of the play of words here ie human, being and then the newly introduced Self ( with Capital S).

We cannot be "Human" and "Being" at the same time - as per your explanation and we can either be Human loosing the "Self" or "Self" loosing the Human! ( Which is your ultimate idea of the message - No Human but Being - situated as Self -if my peanut tiny brain made the right understanding). I believe, the question is "Highest Ideal for "Human" Life" and not sure how can a suggestion or explanation that, "Giving up" that "Human" itself can be highest ideal?? A prasad cannot be the mode of conduct itself - cos its a result and here the question is regarding the conduct isn't?

Hare Krshna!

yajvan
21 August 2014, 12:11 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Dear Yajavan Ji.,

Your message here even after one explanation is very confusing honestly. :). I feel so because of the play of words here ie human, being and then the newly introduced Self ( with Capital S).

We cannot be "Human" and "Being" at the same time - as per your explanation and we can either be Human loosing the "Self" or "Self" loosing the Human! ( Which is your ultimate idea of the message - No Human but Being - situated as Self -if my peanut tiny brain made the right understanding). I believe, the question is "Highest Ideal for "Human" Life" and not sure how can a suggestion or explanation that, "Giving up" that "Human" itself can be highest ideal?? A prasad cannot be the mode of conduct itself - cos its a result and here the question is regarding the conduct isn't?

Hare Krshna!

I am happy for your note... it tells me that you have seriously engaged the idea that was offered.
Let me offer this point of view. It is the human part of us that ~ gets in the way~ of the highest ideal. We are That already. It is like the sun shining brightly all the time on all parts of the world ( the Supreme). Yet in some parts of the world clouds are there and a person thinks the sun is not out ( ignorance). The sun does not know night , where can there be darkness for the sun ?

Like that, within the human condition the Supreme shines - it is not fully appreciated as one is caught up in the ego condition of experiencing 'me-ness' all the time. Every thing is referenced back to this small framework of 'me-ness'.
So what occurs ?- Being is there all the time and the human part takes front stage ( me-ness); then one comes to the re-recognition of who he/she really is and the human goes to the background and Being takes front stage. My play on words put 'Being' human in the back, then human 'Being' in the front.

This is the highest level - it does not have to be achieved, for the wise tell us if it is achieved then it can be lost once again. It is not a 'transaction' like buying milk. Being ( Supreme) permeates every thing, how then can one achieve it if it is everywhere? This would be folly.
It is no different then breaking an empty pot and saying ' I have released the space in side to join with the other space out side'... space cannot be contained even tough we think we're doing it. It is the space that allows everything to exist, and not the other way around. Like that, it is the Supreme that allows all things to exist. It is this recognition of this that returns us back to the ideal state.

iti śivaṁ

yajvan
21 August 2014, 06:59 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté






to live one's life as Self ( which is our real nature) is to live Being in its fullness ...


yajvan, I still need to get a sense of this Being...

One way to think of this Being is to think of it as presence.

In english, it's presence or pre+ sense. Meaning prior to our awareness pouring out of our senses; hence facing inwards.
In saṃskṛt it's upasthāna – presence; nearness
In hindi , upasthiti – presence , standing near ( implying near to one’s own Being)you have 'to be' before anything else can be...your sense of presence is really fundamental to anything thing else that has to follow - śrī nisargadatta maharāj

This is so fundamental many miss this point. The state of Being must be there, but since our attention is outward we miss this simple fact. It tends to confound our intelligence . So, the wise use examples...

They say think of this presence like a movie screen. Before any of the pictures can be shown, a screen on which it appears must be present. This presence is like that screen - fundamental to the movie that occurs on it. Yet the screen is never affected by the dancing light that is on it.

iti śivaṁ

brahma jijnasa
27 August 2014, 04:31 PM
Namaste


Dear Yajavan Ji.,

Your message here even after one explanation is very confusing honestly. . I feel so because of the play of words here ie human, being and then the newly introduced Self ( with Capital S).

We cannot be "Human" and "Being" at the same time - as per your explanation and we can either be Human loosing the "Self" or "Self" loosing the Human! ( Which is your ultimate idea of the message - No Human but Being - situated as Self -if my peanut tiny brain made the right understanding). I believe, the question is "Highest Ideal for "Human" Life" and not sure how can a suggestion or explanation that, "Giving up" that "Human" itself can be highest ideal?? A prasad cannot be the mode of conduct itself - cos its a result and here the question is regarding the conduct isn't?

Hare Krshna


What is this losing one's Self to a form mean ? It means that the awareness of Self is lost to the human condition of only being 'me'. This 'me' is this small constrained ego-centric human form that is bound by height, width , depth, birth and death (time).
Yet to live one's life as Self ( which is our real nature) is to live Being in its fullness ... it is now the shoe on the other foot - it is the human being Self.
Then one is no longer annoyed with birth/death , ego driven things of life. One is now living their true dignity of this stainless level of Being.
This is the core and essence ( goal ) of all of our āgama-s & śāstra-s which fulfills the intent of sanātana dharma .
... ...

Like that, within the human condition the Supreme shines - it is not fully appreciated as one is caught up in the ego condition of experiencing 'me-ness' all the time. Every thing is referenced back to this small framework of 'me-ness'.
So what occurs ?- Being is there all the time and the human part takes front stage ( me-ness); then one comes to the re-recognition of who he/she really is and the human goes to the background and Being takes front stage. My play on words put 'Being' human in the back, then human 'Being' in the front.

I think Yajvan made good point here.
I remember that in the scriptures we have many examples that speak about it. Here are some typical examples:


asāv aham mamaivaite
dehe cāsyānvayādiṣu
sneha-pāśair nibadhnāti
bhavān sarvam idaḿ jagat

asau -- this; aham -- I; mama -- mine; eva -- indeed; ete -- these; dehe -- in connection with one's body; ca -- and; asya -- of it; anvaya-ādiṣu — and in connection with progeny and other related things; sneha -- of affection; pāśaiḥ -- with the ropes; nibadhnāti -- tie up; bhavān -- You; sarvam -- all; idam -- this; jagat -- world

You keep this whole world bound up by the ropes of affection, and thus when people consider their material bodies, they think, "This is me," and when they consider their progeny and other relations, they think, "These are mine." (Bhagavatam 10.85.17)

It is interesting to note here that the way you think about yourself in terms of "This is me" and "These are mine" is condemned here in this verse. People who think of themselves in terms of "This is me" and "These are mine" are "bound up by the ropes of affection" as it is said in this verse. Obviously these people are not established in the self.

Here are some more examples:


regards

brahma jijnasa
27 August 2014, 05:30 PM
Namaste


"Simply because I chanted the holy name of the Lord in the association of devotees, my heart is now becoming purified. Therefore I shall not fall victim again to the false lures of material sense gratification. Now that I have become fixed in the Absolute Truth, henceforward I shall not identify myself with the body. I shall give up false conceptions of "I" and "mine" and fix my mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." (Bhagavatam 6.2.38)

"O my Lord, the people of the world are embarrassed by all material anxieties -- they are always afraid. They always try to protect wealth, body and friends, they are filled with lamentation and unlawful desires and paraphernalia, and they avariciously base their undertakings on the perishable conceptions of "my" and "mine." As long as they do not take shelter of Your safe lotus feet, they are full of such anxieties." (Bhagavatam 3.9.6)

Actually this whole material existence, our life in this material world and thus our entanglement in karma and samsara (repeated births and deaths) is based on the idea of ​​"I am this body, and I am connected with everything which is connected with my body, like my family, possessions, nation, social status, etc." But when a person rejects the idea about himself in terms of "This is me" and "These are mine" and establish himself in the self, he becomes freed from material existence, entanglement in karma and samsara (repeated births and deaths).


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Bhagavatam quotes see at BBT, vedabase


regards