Does Ramanama destroys bad karma?

[orlando]

Namaste all.
Is true that to do Ramanama destroy bad karma/sins?
Are there proofs in the scriptures about this?
Regards,
Orlando.

[Singhi Kaya]

On a serious note, I think just receiting won't take away karma though scriptures say so. Perhaves for more practical reasons.

But reading with understanding will surely dispel myths from head and clear up mind. When mind clears up we go a few stp towards development. Can't say it means clear up Karma-but certainly it means self development. And self -development for a long time should make you liberated:).

So in a inductive way it does perhaves - my understanding though.

Btw, reading a novel or appreciating a scenic beauty can also help you do this - but only for a transient moment. With texts of ultimate wisdom, such fleeting glimses of reality can be prolonged. perhaves!!:(

[rkannan1]

On a serious note, I think just receiting won't take away karma though scriptures say so. Perhaves for more practical reasons.

But reading with understanding will surely dispel myths from head and clear up mind. When mind clears up we go a few stp towards development. Can't say it means clear up Karma-but certainly it means self development. And self -development for a long time should make you liberated:).

So in a inductive way it does perhaves - my understanding though.

Btw, reading a novel or appreciating a scenic beauty can also help you do this - but only for a transient moment. With texts of ultimate wisdom, such fleeting glimses of reality can be prolonged. perhaves!!:(

In that case we do not need all those Vedic mantras anyway as per your logic.

This is usual nonsense(in my opinion) propagated by pseudo people.

Vedas clearly say(in one of the Upanishad) that Jnana is necessary, but they also say that none can reach Moksha without knowing Vedas.

Vedas specify Karmas with a reason.

As far as "Rama Mantra" is concerned it is called Taraka-Brahma-Mantra. It is powerful enough to give Moksha. It is mentioned in Vedas (Jabalopansihad) that Rudra Deva personally gives this mantra to departing souls in Kashi after which they obtain Moksha. You can read more in

Public Username and Password: Dvaita

http://www.dvaita.org/list/list_51/msg00065.html

[Singhi Kaya]

Public Username and Password: Dvaita

http://www.dvaita.org/list/list_51/msg00065.html

Btw, it's not letting in with that user name and password.

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

Moderator Note:

This thread has completely turned off topic from the beginning. The question asked by "Bhakta of God" clearly stated he was interested in the effects of "Ramanama" or the chanting of the names of Rama. Two or more of the posts by Singhi Kaya contained personal attacks or were completely off topic including responses by rkannan1. If a person posts a question, please reply with an attempt to answer the question, not to belittle the person who asked the question or change the topic entirely. Also, if a question is unclear, it is best to post a reply asking the person to be more specific. Last but not least, the reason the Username and Password for the dvaita.org forum is not working is because rkannan1 gave the incorrect username and password. The username and password is "dvaita" and is case-sensitive. "Dvaita" is NOT the password or username. They may seem the same to a human's eyes but not to a computer program.

Questions or comments about moderation policy? Please send a private message to Bhakti Yoga Seeker or contact any of the other admins of the website. Namaskaar. ~BYS~

[orlando]

Namaste all.
I did read the link.
I am no sure if i had the the answer to my question.
Ramanama means to recite continually Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama...
Ramamantra,if I am not wrong,is Om Sri Ramaya Namah.
My question is about Ramanama.
Regards,
Orlando.

[ramkish42]

Hi

Ramanama indeed destroys bad karma

1. We chant 1008 holy names of god to get rid of Bad karma. Rama Nama is equivalent to 1008 holy names when chanted three times.
raama raama raamethi rame raame manorame, sahasra naama tattulyam raama naama varaanane

2. In shiva purana it is told that Lord Shiva said Rama nama is tarakamantra , hence it is on par with Ohm (I will describe about this in separate thread if time permits

3. According to Sage Tulasidas, Raam Nam (as said in Hindi) as two parts, first part is Raa,by saying this and opening your mount wide, all inner dirts escapes out and second part M, we close our mouth, so that what ever escaped does not go inside again. This is a Metaphor. One may argue, if at all it may go inside it can go via nose. the idea is not that. Sage clearly says by chanting the name dirts goes out

4. unlike other mantras, Raamanamaa gives fruits even spelled wrongly at the same time instantly. We hear of sage Valmiki saying word Maraa Maraa continuously thus ended up being a sage. This is the clear example of destruction of Karma

[Namo Narayana]

hmmm. now i remember the play about valmiki who used tobe a highway man. he robbed and spent it on his subjects. but narada maamuni approaches him oneday and asks who you are going to share your sins with . he asks his parents, friends and his beloved wife. Nobody could take it as your karma will be affecting you only. then he asks narada to find him a way out of his sin. then narada makes him chant maraa maraa. in the play i saw about valmiki, it is said he chanted a tree called maraa. when he said maraa maram maraa maram ( maram means tree in tamil ) he was chanting rama's name.

[atanu]

In that case we do not need all those Vedic mantras anyway as per your logic.

This is usual nonsense(in my opinion) propagated by pseudo people.

---------

As far as "Rama Mantra" is concerned it is called Taraka-Brahma-Mantra. It is powerful enough to give Moksha. It is mentioned in Vedas (Jabalopansihad) that Rudra Deva personally gives this mantra to departing souls in Kashi after which they obtain Moksha. You can read more in




Chantings, specifically of bija mantras have immense value, but finally to make the mind unwavering. Varuna taught his son Bhrigu that "Concentrated mind is Brahman". Meditation, dhyana, Vichara -- these are the final grace of God.

In Jabalopanishad the following is said:

II-1. Thereafter the sage Atri (son of the creator Brahma) asked of Yajnavalkya: ‘How am I to realize the Self which is infinite and unmanifest ?’ (To this) Yajnavalkya replied: That Avimukta (Lord Siva as the redeemer) is to be worshipped; the Self which is infinite and unmanifest, is established in (i.e., is non-different from) the Avimukta (in Ishvara, possessed of attributes)’.

Regards

[Singhi Kaya]

Moderator Note:

This thread has completely turned off topic from the beginning. The question asked by "Bhakta of God" clearly stated he was interested in the effects of "Ramanama" or the chanting of the names of Rama. Two or more of the posts by Singhi Kaya contained personal attacks or were completely off topic including responses by rkannan1. If a person posts a question, please reply with an attempt to answer the question, not to belittle the person who asked the question or change the topic entirely. Also, if a question is unclear, it is best to post a reply asking the person to be more specific. Last but not least, the reason the Username and Password for the dvaita.org forum is not working is because rkannan1 gave the incorrect username and password. The username and password is "dvaita" and is case-sensitive. "Dvaita" is NOT the password or username. They may seem the same to a human's eyes but not to a computer program.

Questions or comments about moderation policy? Please send a private message to Bhakti Yoga Seeker or contact any of the other admins of the website. Namaskaar. ~BYS~
Apart from making typos I have now started reading stuff wrong. I miss-read Ramanama as Ramayana. So posts looked bizzare. My apologies. I notice it just now.

But if you ask me, I think it is the green-burgundy background that's behind this!:)

[Singhi Kaya]

Now that I know what BoG was asking, I can share my humble (not my own creation in any way though) ideas:-

Reciting names of God is called Japa in Hindu Dharma.
It's not exactly vedic chanting, as it is one pointed focus on a particular sound name. For a beginner, Ram Swarup's "word as revelation" can be a good source of understanding the mystery of reciting the lord's various names.

Japa is per haves like a universal practice as all sects and philosophies employ it. Destroy Karma - may be it does, but my understanding is word vibrations have direct effect on our mental-body and destroys avidya in it, increases merit and thus help in increase of awareness and knowledge. And to me knowledge is self development which leads to mukti. Thinking this way not all mantras are of similar power. Because not all vibrations are similar. Bija mantras which are sharp and crisp combination of a 2 o 3 matrika varnas cut through mental ignorance and clears up the mind fast. Mantras like Hrim (durga) or Krim (Kali) are sharp and piercing if you recite them (one can chant it inside and see). Vedic mantras are more peace-giving. It is said various mantras are to be practiced at various stages. Also in this science of japa, recitation aloud is not regarded as proper. After some stage one must move to manas japa where even there no movement in tongue, but the sound is repeated in mind.

But not all people will like to think it this way. Those who are rather strict bhaktas may argue that chanting lord’s name will destroy karma. Vaishnavas I think believe that calling lords name is actually calling the lord who will then personally help us out. They per haves believe in nama japa more than bija japa. The ancient phrase to of "Hari Om" was replaced by "Hari Bol" on such grounds.

It is unto the practitioner what (s)he wants to follow.

[rkannan1]

Namaste all.
I did read the link.
I am no sure if i had the the answer to my question.
Ramanama means to recite continually Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama...
Ramamantra,if I am not wrong,is Om Sri Ramaya Namah.
My question is about Ramanama.
Regards,
Orlando.
As moderator noted the Public Username and Password is: dvaita and not Dvaita. My apologies.

The taraka Brahma mantra in "Jabalopanishad" is nothing but "rAma mantra" or "RAmanAma", which is clear from Ramottaratapaniya upanishad. If you go through the link all details are given.

http://www.dvaita.org/list/list_51/msg00065.html

[atanu]

**********The taraka Brahma mantra in "Jabalopanishad" is nothing but "rAma mantra" or "RAmanAma", which is clear from Ramottaratapaniya upanishad. If you go through the link all details are given.*****************

Jabala -- a disciple of Gautama rishi. On Jabala is based the concept of truthfulness and what constitutes Brahmana caste. Though Jabala was born of unknown father of a ganika mother, but He was Brahmana because of his truthfulness.

Jabala is Vedic. Linking Jabalo Upanishad, which is Vedic to a later Upanishad is pre posterous. I can write a commentary on Veda showing that Veda means Christ as Supreme only and none else -- and then I may, using the powerful means of Maya at my disposal, spread my view. All this is however the works of Maya, consort of Lord. Not for nothing, Lord does use an arrow made of Soma, Vishnu, and Agni to destroy Tripura.


Veda remains as such forever. And the being whose body constitutes the Vedas remains unborn eternally.

[rkannan1]

Jabala -- a disciple of Gautama rishi. On Jabala is based the concept of truthfulness and what constitutes Brahmana caste. Though Jabala was born of unknown father of a ganika mother, but He was Brahmana because of his truthfulness.

Jabala is Vedic. Linking Jabalo Upanishad, which is Vedic to a later Upanishad is pre posterous.

Jabalopanishad clearly mentions the place called "Avimukta" located inbetween varana and nasi. Varana and nasi are the two rivers around Varanasi and "avimukta" is one of the names of the city Varanasi. Also Rudra in this city is called as Tarakeshwar as he imparts Taraka mantra to dying souls in Kasi Kshetra(Varanasi). This is accpeted tradition among scholars in classical traditions. you can check on it.

Ramottaratapaniya upanishad is authentic as it corroborates with Jabalopanishad and explains clearly what Taraka Brahma mantra.

Besides the link provides also smriti statements in support of what I say. Rest of your post is your speculation and is merely reactionary. Unless you can provide from sruti that this Taraka Mantra is different from "Ramanama" you are blowing hot air.


I can write a commentary on Veda showing that Veda means Christ as Supreme only and none else -- and then I may, using the powerful means of Maya at my disposal, spread my view. All this is however the works of Maya, consort of Lord. Not for nothing, Lord does use an arrow made of Soma, Vishnu, and Agni to destroy Tripura.

Veda remains as such forever. And the being whose body constitutes the Vedas remains unborn eternally.
In the same Sruti, Rudra Deva asks all the assembled Devatas for a Vara. If Rudra is superior as you imagine, why does he ask for a boon to be called as pasupati from the Devatas who nominate him.

Atanu, you have got thorough refutation of your faulty stand many times in many other sites. There is no need to go over everything here again.

For the benefit of other people. The following link provides clear information

Public username and password: dvaita
http://www.dvaita.org/list/list_50/msg00063.html


Verse: 1
Sentence: 1 téṣām (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27te631E0101m%27%29) ásurāṇāṃ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27asur0101471E0101431E%27%29) tisráḥ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27tisra251E%27%29) púra (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27pura%27%29) āsann (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%270101sann%27%29) ayasmáyy (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27ayasmayy%27%29) avamā́tʰa (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27avam0101tB002a%27%29) rajatā́tʰa (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27rajat0101tB002a%27%29) háriṇī (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27hari471E2B01%27%29)
Sentence: 2 tā́ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27t0101%27%29) devā́ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27dev0101%27%29) jétuṃ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27jetu431E%27%29) nā́śaknuvan (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27n01015B01aknuvan%27%29) tā́ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27t0101%27%29) upasádaivā́jigīṣan (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27upasadaiv0101jig2B01631Ean%27%29)
Sentence: 3 tásmād (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27tasm0101d%27%29) āhur (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%270101hur%27%29) yáś (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27ya5B01%27%29) caiváṃ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27caiva431E%27%29) véda (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27veda%27%29) yáś (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27ya5B01%27%29) ca (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27ca%27%29) ná (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27na%27%29) \
Sentence: 4 upasádā (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27upasad0101%27%29) vái (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27vai%27%29) mahāpuráṃ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27mah0101pura431E%27%29) jayantī́ti (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27jayant2B01ti%27%29)
Sentence: 5 tá (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27ta%27%29) íṣuṁ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27i631Eu431E%27%29) sám (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27sam%27%29) askurvatāgním (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27askurvat0101gnim%27%29) ánīkaṁ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27an2B01ka431E%27%29) sómaṁ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27soma431E%27%29) śalyáṃ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%275B01alya431E%27%29) víṣṇuṃ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27vi631E471Eu431E%27%29) téjanam (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27tejanam%27%29) \
Sentence: 6 tè (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27te%27%29) ʼbruvan (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27abruvan%27%29)
Sentence: 7 ká (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27ka%27%29) imā́m (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27im0101m%27%29) asiṣyatī́ti (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27asi631Eyat2B01ti%27%29) //

Verse: 2
Sentence: 1 rudrá (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27rudra%27%29) íty (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27ity%27%29) abruvan (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27abruvan%27%29) rudró (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27rudro%27%29) vái (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27vai%27%29) krūráḥ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27kr6B01ra251E%27%29) sò (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27so%27%29) ʼsyatv (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27asyatv%27%29) íti (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27iti%27%29)
Sentence: 2 sò (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27so%27%29) ʼbravīt (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27abrav2B01t%27%29) \
Sentence: 3 váraṃ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27vara431E%27%29) vr̥ṇā (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27vr2503471E0101%27%29) ahám (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27aham%27%29) evá (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27eva%27%29) paśūnā́m (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27pa5B016B01n0101m%27%29) ádʰipatir (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27adB002ipatir%27%29) asānī́ti (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27as0101n2B01ti%27%29) tásmād (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27tasm0101d%27%29) rudráḥ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27rudra251E%27%29) paśūnā́m (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27pa5B016B01n0101m%27%29) ádʰipatis (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27adB002ipatis%27%29)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/yv/yv06.htm

The Asuras had three citadels; the lowest was of iron, then there was one of silver, then one of gold. The gods could not conquer them; they sought to conquer them by siege; therefore they say--both those who know thus and those who do not--'By siege they conquer great citadels.' They made ready an arrow, Agni as the point, Soma as the socket, Visnu as the shaft. They said, 'Who shall shoot it?' [1] 'Rudra', they said, 'Rudra is cruel, let him shoot it.' He said, 'Let me choose a boon; let me be overlord of animals.' Therefore is Rudra overlord of animals.
Look at the verses in bold red. The devatas use the word krūráḥ (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27kr6B01ra251E%27%29)(cruel) for selecting Rudra Deva to shoot the arrow and there is no other reason.

Also note the part in BOLD BLUE. Rudra Deva asks for a boon. Why would Rudra deva ask for a boon if he is supreme Lord. The vedas are clear. Boons are always asked from one's superiors and not from a inferior person. The fact that Rudra Deva asks for boon(from whoever it is), it shows Rudra Deva's position relative to boon giver is inferior.

Besides it is the Devatas that made the arrows already. Also note the words víṣṇuṃ (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27vi631E471Eu431E%27%29) téjanam (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:ci%2816915,%27tejanam%27%29) used. It means Visnu's Power or Visnu's brightness. Here Rudra Deva merely uses Visnu's power to destroy the citadel for it is not possible tot destroy otherwise.

[TruthSeeker]

1. We chant 1008 holy names of god to get rid of Bad karma. Rama Nama is equivalent to 1008 holy names when chanted three times.
raama raama raamethi rame raame manorame, sahasra naama tattulyam raama naama varaanane



So what is the use of 1008 holy names, and why recite it at all? Do you realize that Rama is one of the names that appear in the 1008 names? (rAmo virAmo...) Some people(ISKCONs) say that chanting Krishna once is equal to chanting Rama three times. Sheer absurdity. It is not important what name of God is being chanted, it is far more important that you do it devoted and devoid of any material desires.




4. unlike other mantras, Raamanamaa gives fruits even spelled wrongly at the same time instantly. We hear of sage Valmiki saying word Maraa Maraa continuously thus ended up being a sage. This is the clear example of destruction of Karma

Which very much confirms my earlier view. It is only the shraddha that matters, not the name and not even its right pronounciation.

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste all.
Is true that to do Ramanama destroy bad karma/sins?
Are there proofs in the scriptures about this?
Regards,
Orlando.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says that chanting of the Lord's name is like filling a reservoir of spiritual merit. There are no indications that the reservoir is getting full, unlike the path of Jnana Yoga( where each stage results in an increased level of perception), but when it gets full it will burst forth...yes, it burns all Karma that are accrued unintentionally. Whatever Karma is earned deliberately has to be worked out, and God is not going to provide a short cut....sorry that is very unfair.

[orlando]

Namaste.
Please note that the shastra has rules.
For example one can't recit Om Namo Narayanaya without first take a bath.And one can't recite it in the rest room.Even recite Ramayana (not Ramanama!) need purity and one must have nice dresses while it is recited.Even VishnuSahasranamam (the thousands name of Vishnu) needs some purity.
Ramanama is beyong place and times.One mays recite Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama... even in the rest room and even without take a bath.
And some mantras must be recited correctly.
One must not diluite the rules of the scriptures.
Regards,
Orlando.

[ramkish42]

So what is the use of 1008 holy names, and why recite it at all? Do you realize that Rama is one of the names that appear in the 1008 names? (rAmo virAmo...) Some people(ISKCONs) say that chanting Krishna once is equal to chanting Rama three times. Sheer absurdity. It is not important what name of God is being chanted, it is far more important that you do it devoted and devoid of any material desires.


Hi,

Assume that I am giving a big feast. What you do expect me to have before giving that big feast. Money, Grain, Cereals, OK

I must have all such stuff in abundance so that I can offer it to you.

So is the names of the lord . Each name is each stuff which is required for feasting, so we have so many names. Each and every name is abundant.

Probably, I like Patotos, some like brinjals, some one like Jilebis so on and so forth. For the person who has tasted the stuff with heart that is enough. When I discuss with you the first thing I will ask is "Had you tasted that Patoto?" probably some one with come and tell me "That Gulab Jamun was excellent, nothing like it, you must have it" -
arre yaar, me tho diabeties patient hun
He will say abe chodo yaar, ek se kya ho jaata hai

Now it is for me to conclude whether the guy who offers me Gulab jamun is about to kill me or make me to taste a good stuff.

The point here is some opt to choose the killing notion, but I see the love he has for Gulab Jamun and me

Many times we will come across us opposites at the same place, verily I suggest try to opt for all when options of alternatives are given to you

Jai shree krishna

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste.
Please note that the shastra has rules.
For example one can't recit Om Namo Narayanaya without first take a bath.And one can't recite it in the rest room.Even recite Ramayana (not Ramanama!) need purity and one must have nice dresses while it is recited.Even VishnuSahasranamam (the thousands name of Vishnu) needs some purity.
Ramanama is beyong place and times.One mays recite Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama... even in the rest room and even without take a bath.
And some mantras must be recited correctly.
One must not diluite the rules of the scriptures.
Regards,
Orlando.

I have never referred to a mantra here whose purpose is different from chanting of names - they are entirely different things.

BY the way, the rules that you mentioned are man made. There cant be any place or time restriction for thinking about God or meditating on him. Such rules are strictly for householders who are yet karmatas, and still indulge in worship for satisying material desires. For a person completely devoted to God, there simply cant be any rules.

By imposing such rules on time and also things like bath, you have virtually made a deep samadhi an imposibility, which may last days at a time. It is quite true that there should be good emphasis on external purity for a house holder and otherwise worldly people. For an advanced seeker, he is purified in his mind, what can beat that?

[ramkish42]

Namaste.
Please note that the shastra has rules.
For example one can't recit Om Namo Narayanaya without first take a bath.And one can't recite it in the rest room.Even recite Ramayana (not Ramanama!) need purity and one must have nice dresses while it is recited.Even VishnuSahasranamam (the thousands name of Vishnu) needs some purity.
Ramanama is beyong place and times.One mays recite Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama... even in the rest room and even without take a bath.
And some mantras must be recited correctly.
One must not diluite the rules of the scriptures.
Regards,
Orlando.
I remember the story of Tulasidas Dubeyji.

While answering a natures call, he was chanting ramanaama aloud. Another person who happened to be in nearby hideout shouted, "Who is that who is chanting holy names in such unholy places, whom so ever you are just shut up for few moments"

Tulasidasji thought, probably that voice was correct, hence kept silent. The moment his mouth stopped chanting, as I hear the story from others, they say, every part of his body started chanting ramanaama aloud.

Voice shouted back - "Who is that - I hear a chorus of Ramanaama, whom so ever you are, I found unless you mouth chants ramanaam aloud chorus does not happen, so chant ramanaam aloud"

Verily, Tulasidasji accepted it and started chanting ramanaama again.

Just giving an example for "even in rest room" idea

At the very end, raam naam (he) satya hai

[orlando]

I have never referred to a mantra here whose purpose is different from chanting of names - they are entirely different things.

BY the way, the rules that you mentioned are man made. There cant be any place or time restriction for thinking about God or meditating on him. Such rules are strictly for householders who are yet karmatas, and still indulge in worship for satisying material desires. For a person completely devoted to God, there simply cant be any rules.

By imposing such rules on time and also things like bath, you have virtually made a deep samadhi an imposibility, which may last days at a time. It is quite true that there should be good emphasis on external purity for a house holder and otherwise worldly people. For an advanced seeker, he is purified in his mind, what can beat that?

Namaste.
If those rules are founde in the shastras,this means that they are commened by God and are not man made.I am not an householder.I am brahmachary.I think that I will not marry and I will take vow of celibacy.But i follow those rules.
You wrote:"
By imposing such rules on time and also things like bath, you have virtually made a deep samadhi an imposibility, which may last days at a time."
Well,even if one doesn't recite Ramayana and doesn't recite Vishnusasranamam one mays do Ramanama,mays recite simply sanskrit prayes and shlokas and mays read scriptures like the puranas.
Regards,
Orlando.

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste.
If those rules are founde in the shastras,this means that they are commened by God and are not man made.I am not an householder.I am brahmachary.I think that I will not marry and I will take vow of celibacy.But i follow those rules.
You wrote:"
By imposing such rules on time and also things like bath, you have virtually made a deep samadhi an imposibility, which may last days at a time."
Well,even if one doesn't recite Ramayana and doesn't recite Vishnusasranamam one mays do Ramanama,mays recite simply sanskrit prayes and shlokas and mays read scriptures like the puranas.
Regards,
Orlando.

As far as I am concerned scripture is only a guideline. The spiritual portion of it is the core, the rest of the myth and stuff are very secondary. Ultimately the aim of scripture and religion should be to make man more interested in spirituality, and if any religion is going to rely on very harsh rules and disciplining(like enforcing God's commands), it is not going to go to the masses. It will turn man away from God.

The bath etc are intended for purity, and is a beginner level exercise. As you progress in your sadhana, the emphasis shifts into subtle realms, and not on bodily rules - was what I intended to say.

Do you know that practicising proper pranayama along with kumbakam has virtually no equivalent purifier of the body? Take a look at Manusmriti and see how much Pranayama is eulogized even as a parihara for many sins. True bath is the bliss bath of the soul in the sahasrara chakra.:)

The reason Ramayana is read with considerable reverance is because it is an itihasa. Itihasas are not merely stories, but rather life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form. For eg, Ramayana is actually Jnana Yoga, and its seven kandas are nothing but seven stages of Jnana Yoga . ( I can elaborate this in detail in another post) Reading of Ramayana is equal to indulging in Jnana Yoga for this reason, though it will lead to self realization in a dormant way. Similarly, Mahabaratha is the itihasa of Karma Yoga. Similarly, the first seven chapters of Bhagavata is Jnana Yoga, and the 10th skanda is Jnana Bhakti Itihasa, where every character in the story is very significant, and even the names of characters have direct relevance to the Yoga. I can post about this in great detail. Devi Bhagavatam is identical in purport to Srimad Bhagavatam.

[orlando]

As far as I am concerned scripture is only a guideline. The spiritual portion of it is the core, the rest of the myth and stuff are very secondary. Ultimately the aim of scripture and religion should be to make man more interested in spirituality, and if any religion is going to rely on very harsh rules and disciplining(like enforcing God's commands), it is not going to go to the masses. It will turn man away from God.

The bath etc are intended for purity, and is a beginner level exercise. As you progress in your sadhana, the emphasis shifts into subtle realms, and not on bodily rules - was what I intended to say.

Do you know that practicising proper pranayama along with kumbakam has virtually no equivalent purifier of the body? Take a look at Manusmriti and see how much Pranayama is eulogized even as a parihara for many sins. True bath is the bliss bath of the soul in the sahasrara chakra.:)

The reason Ramayana is read with considerable reverance is because it is an itihasa. Itihasas are not merely stories, but rather life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form. For eg, Ramayana is actually Jnana Yoga, and its seven kandas are nothing but seven stages of Jnana Yoga . ( I can elaborate this in detail in another post) Reading of Ramayana is equal to indulging in Jnana Yoga for this reason, though it will lead to self realization in a dormant way. Similarly, Mahabaratha is the itihasa of Karma Yoga. Similarly, the first seven chapters of Bhagavata is Jnana Yoga, and the 10th skanda is Jnana Bhakti Itihasa, where every character in the story is very significant, and even the names of characters have direct relevance to the Yoga. I can post about this in great detail. Devi Bhagavatam is identical in purport to Srimad Bhagavatam.

Namaste Shri ThuthSeeker,so do yoy say that Itihasas are life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form?
Well,I don't agree with this at all.
Now I will help you to understand the true use of itihasas and Puranas.
By http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/srimad-bhagavatam.html
there are certain factors that make it practically impossible to study the Vedas in this age:

After Srila Vyasadeva divided the Vedas into four books (Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva), his disciples further divided them into 1,130 divisions. This is stated in the Kurma Purana (52.19-20):
eka-vimsati-bhedena rg-vedam krtavan pura
sakhanam satenaiva yajur-vedam athakarot

sama-vedam sahasrena sakhanam prabibheda sah
atharvanam atho vedam bibedha navakena tu

‘Previously the Rg Veda was divided into 21 sections, the Yajur Veda into 100 sections, the Sama Veda into 1,000 sections and the Atharva Veda into 9 divisions.’

Each division has 4 minor divisions, namely the Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanisads. Thus altogether the 4 Vedas contain 1,130 Samhitas, 1,130 Brahmanas, 1,130 Aranyakas, and 1,130 Upanisads. This makes a total of 4,520 divisions.

At present, most of these texts have disappeared due to the influence of time. We can only find 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas and 220 Upanisads which constitutes a mere 6% of the entire Vedic canon!

Even if the Vedas were complete in there entirety, in order to understand them one must first study the Vedangas which includes Siksa (the science of phonetics), Vyakarana (grammatical rules), Kalpa (ritualistic rules), Nirukta (obscure word meanings), Chanda (Metres for chanting Vedic hymns), and Jyotisa (astrology and astronomy).
Since the language of the Vedas is enshrouded in mysterious meanings, one must also be willing to sacrifice years of study in order to learn Vaidika (classical) Sanskrit. This entails primarily learning the basic grammar (which generally takes 12 years or so) and then memorising extra vocabulary in order to decipher the mystical language of the Vedas. 1
Apart from that, it is practically impossible for those born in the age of Kali (who are generally ‘mandah sumanda-matayo’) to memorise even the slightest thing. What to speak of the entire Vedas or even the 6% that still survives today! At present, amongst the brahmana communities in India, it is generally observed that vedadhyayana simply consists of memorising the text of one of the four Vedas ‘parrot-fashion’, but as we can see from above, there is much more to it than that. Therefore, we may conclude that although the Vedas are perfect sabda-pramana, it is impractical to become thoroughly conversant with the Vedas in this day and age in order to understand the Supreme. Hence the solution lies in the Puranas and the Itihasas. This is explained in the following verse -


bharata-vyapadesena hyamnayarthah pradarsitah
vedah pratisthah sarve sarve purane natra samsayah

"On the pretext of writing the Mahabharata, Vyasa explained the meaning of the Vedas. Certainly all the topics of the Vedas have been established in the Puranas." (Visnu Purana)

Furthermore, it is explained in the Mahabharata (Adi Parva 1.267) and Manu Samhita –

itihasa puranabhyam vedam samupabrmhayet

" One must complement one’s study of the Vedas with the Itihasas and the Puranas."

In the Prabhasa-khanda of the Skanda Purana (5.3.121-124) it is said –

veda-van niscalam manye puranartham dvijottamah
vedah pratisthitah sarve purane natra samsayah

bibhety-alpa-srutad vedo mam ayam calayisyati
itihasa-puranais tu niscalo’yam krtah purah

yan na drstam hi vedesu tad drstam smrtisu dvijah
ubhayor yan na drstam hi tat puranah pragiyate
yo veda caturo vedan sangopanisado dvijah
puranam naiva janati na ca sa syad vicaksana

" O best of the brahmanas, the meaning of the Puranas is unchanging just like that of the Vedas. The Vedas are all sheltered within the Puranas without a doubt. The Veda has a fear that unqualified people will read her and then distort her meaning. Thus, the significance of the Veda was fixed in the Puranas and Itihasas. That which is not found in the Vedas is found in the Smrti. That which is not found in the Smrti is to be found in the Puranas. Those who know even the Vedas and Upanisads are not learned if they do not know the Puranas."

rcah samani chandamsi puranam yajusa saha
ucchistaj-jajnire sarve divi deva divi-sritah

"The Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva became manifest from the Lord, along with the Puranas and all the Devas residing in the heavens." (Atharva Veda 11.7.24)

sa brhatim disam anu vyacalat tam itihasas ca puranam ca gathas ca itihasasya ca sa vai puranasya ca gathanam ca narasamsinam ca priyam dhama bhavati ya evam veda

"He approached the brhati meter, and thus the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis became favorable to him. One who knows this verily becomes the beloved abode of the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis." (Atharva Veda 15.6.10–12)


evam ime sarva veda nirmitah sa-kalpah sa-rahasyah sa-brahmanah sopanisatkah setihasah sanvakhyatah sa-puranan

"In this way, all the Vedas were manifested along with the Kalpas, Rahasyas, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Itihasas, Anvakhyatas and the Puranas." (Gopatha Brahmana, purva 2.10)

nama va rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama-veda atharvanas caturtha itihasa-puranah pancamo vedanam vedah

"Indeed, Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva are the names of the four Vedas. The Itihasas and Puranas are the fifth Veda." (Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanisad 7.1.4)


asya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad yad rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama
vedo’tharvangirasa itihasah puranam ityadina

"O Maitreya, the Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas as well as the Itihasas and the Puranas all manifest from the breathing of the Lord." (Madhyandina-sruti, Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 2.4.10)

Regards,
Orlando.

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste Shri ThuthSeeker,so do yoy say that Itihasas are life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form?
Well,I don't agree with this at all.


You dont have to agree, it is your privilege. Every one has their own view. Except note that literal interpretations of Ramayana as a history is often nothing but rubbish. Ramayana contains such beautiful hidden meanings in it, that you can learn only from a true Yogi or from Isvara himself.

Just for your infomation, please try to make sense of the verses in Kiskinda Kanda here.

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga40/kishkindha_40_frame.htm

Can you provide any meaningful explanations for these verses? They are gems of verses explaining the fifth stage of Jnana Yoga called the Pratas-sandhya ( the same as the one done ritually without knowing the meaning in the Sandya vandanam). Each kanda in Ramayana represents one stage of Jnana Yoga, which culimates in the Uttara Kanda, where identity with the Absolute is realized, technically called the Sayam-Sandhya. Just ask those Brahmins who do Sandhya Vandanam of what is the purpose of doing that - literaly it is mentioned as driving away an asura called Mandeha who attacks the Sun, by spraying water!!! Ask them for a good spiritual explanation.....of what this myth is all about! Dont take any portion of vedas as literal, it is plain rubbish often.

Every Itihasa explains only one of the two process of Self Realization - Karma Yoga also called the Yoga, and Jnana Yoga also caled the Shankya Yoga. They may have some historical relevance, but their main purport is only to provide a commentary of the vedas.

As you know, self realization involves understanding of the 25 tattvas. Of these 25, Karma Yoga deals with the lower 18 tattvas, and Jnana Yoga with higher seven tattvas.

Mahabaratha is Karma Yoga and deals with 18 tattvas, indicated by the 18 parvas , 18 chapters of Gita and 18 days of war. Each of these is very signifcant, and you need to learn from a realized Yogi, and not from books.

Ramayana is Jnana Yoga and consists of 7 tattvas, indicated by the seven kandas of Ramayana. Jnana and Bhakti Yoga are not separate when viewed from a higher plane. Srimad Bhagavatam and Devi Bhagavatam deal with both Karma and Jnana Yoga.

Advaita deals with all the 25 tattvas. Vishistadvaita deals with 24 tattvas, and other religions and philosophies cover between 10-24 tattvas in their scope and hence the apparent conflict between religions. All religions in the world can be claasfied into either Karma and Jnana Yoga( or a forerunner to one of these), based on their teachings. The scope of Gita is only Karma Yoga as indicated by its 18 chapters and hence it does not teach advaita , though Arjuna is instructed about other higher tattvas in Jnana Yoga.

[TruthSeeker]

Hi,

Assume that I am giving a big feast. What you do expect me to have before giving that big feast. Money, Grain, Cereals, OK

I must have all such stuff in abundance so that I can offer it to you.

So is the names of the lord . Each name is each stuff which is required for feasting, so we have so many names. Each and every name is abundant.

Probably, I like Patotos, some like brinjals, some one like Jilebis so on and so forth. For the person who has tasted the stuff with heart that is enough. When I discuss with you the first thing I will ask is "Had you tasted that Patoto?" probably some one with come and tell me "That Gulab Jamun was excellent, nothing like it, you must have it" -
arre yaar, me tho diabeties patient hun
He will say abe chodo yaar, ek se kya ho jaata hai

Now it is for me to conclude whether the guy who offers me Gulab jamun is about to kill me or make me to taste a good stuff.

The point here is some opt to choose the killing notion, but I see the love he has for Gulab Jamun and me

Many times we will come across us opposites at the same place, verily I suggest try to opt for all when options of alternatives are given to you

Jai shree krishna

I did not get the gist of what you are trying to say.

Are you still saying that three names of Ram are equivalent to 1008 other names? I would consider that a lazy attitude, and would never teach easier ways to anyone, because it is very unlikely then that Sahasranama will ever be recited by anyone.

Sahasranama itself is dictated to Yudhishtira as the highest Dharma and the way to moxa. I dont see a need to dilute that message. Obviously, repeating Rama Nama 1008(rather 1031?) times must be equivalent to reciting the Sahasranama.

[TruthSeeker]

Hi,

Assume that I am giving a big feast. What you do expect me to have before giving that big feast. Money, Grain, Cereals, OK

I must have all such stuff in abundance so that I can offer it to you.

So is the names of the lord . Each name is each stuff which is required for feasting, so we have so many names. Each and every name is abundant.

Probably, I like Patotos, some like brinjals, some one like Jilebis so on and so forth. For the person who has tasted the stuff with heart that is enough. When I discuss with you the first thing I will ask is "Had you tasted that Patoto?" probably some one with come and tell me "That Gulab Jamun was excellent, nothing like it, you must have it" -
arre yaar, me tho diabeties patient hun
He will say abe chodo yaar, ek se kya ho jaata hai

Now it is for me to conclude whether the guy who offers me Gulab jamun is about to kill me or make me to taste a good stuff.

The point here is some opt to choose the killing notion, but I see the love he has for Gulab Jamun and me

Many times we will come across us opposites at the same place, verily I suggest try to opt for all when options of alternatives are given to you

Jai shree krishna

I do not get the gist of what you are saying.

If you are still saying that repeating the name Ram three times is equivalent to reciting the entire Sahasranama, that must be a lazy attitude. Sahasranama itself is dictated to Yudhistira as the moxadharma and I dont see a need to dilute that message.

[ramkish42]

I do not get the gist of what you are saying.

If you are still saying that repeating the name Ram three times is equivalent to reciting the entire Sahasranama, that must be a lazy attitude. Sahasranama itself is dictated to Yudhistira as the moxadharma and I dont see a need to dilute that message.
What I said was in justification to many names of god and attachment of few people with few names of god.

Jai shree krishna