Four Armed Sri Krishna-Narayana?

[Ram11]

Namaste,

The commonly seen form of Bhagavan Sri Krishna has two arms playing/holding a flute.

Sriman Narayana is shown with four arms holding the attributes Shanka(conch),Chakra(discus),Gada(mace) and Padma(lotus).

I came across a different image wherein Sri Krishna is playing the flute with two arms and the other two arms are holding the conch and the discus.I tried to find the origin of this form but could not.

In Srimad Bhagavad Gita,in chapter 11(Visvarupa–Darsana yoga),Bhagavan exhibits a four armed form.The commentaries mention that the four armed form was of Sriman Narayana with his usual four attributes but not this form.

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-11-47.html

http://www.natyam.ru/images/Rama/venugopala_1.jpg

Could members point out the source of this form from the scriptures?Is there any incident associated with this combined form of Sri Krishna-Narayana?

[Viraja]

Namaste,

I once listened to an upanyasa -- it seems Sri Krishna once when he was playing with the Gopis, as a small child, 'frightened them' playfully sporting his real swaroopa as 4-armed bhagwan Sri Vishnu. To this, the gopis seem to have been very much frightened, and then smilingly Sri Krishna assumed his normal form. I think this episode maybe in the Bhagavatam 10th Canto.

[ameyAtmA]

Jai Shri KRshNa

Apparently Shri KRshNa GhanaShyAmsundar VAsudev manifested 4 arms when RukmiNi fainted because He teased Her.

Viraja, the Gopis ignored Him as a four armed form with a quick Namaste and asked "PraNAm Narayan, have you seen KRshNa?" and just went ahead into the woods searching for their beloved KRshNa :)

Then came Radha searching for Him. As the 4-armed KRshNa saw Radha approaching He kept slipping back into the 2 armed form seeing Her.

Madan-Mohan could not get Himself to retain the four-arm form in front of Madan-Mohan-Mohini!

Shri Radhe!!

-------
Madan -Mohan = attracter of Cupid = KRshNa
Madan - Mohan - Mohini = attracter of attracter of Cupid = Radha

[ameyAtmA]

Could members point out the source of this form from the scriptures?Is there any incident associated with this combined form of Sri Krishna-Narayana?


Namaste Ram

Shri KRshNa was often considered 4-armed as VAsudev in Dwarka and Hastinapur. After He left VRndAvan, He was pretty much looked at as Narayan, however, the VAsudev form of DwArka is obviously a lilA-mAnusha-vigraha (divine=pastime-performing human-like form) than the VaikunTha-NArAyaN.

he nAth nArAyaNa vAsudeva ~

[Ram11]

Namaste Viraja Ji,

I think my realtives have the full Sri SB with them,I'll read about this incident when I will visit them.Thanks.


Jai Shri KRshNa

the Gopis ignored Him as a four armed form with a quick Namaste and asked "PraNAm Narayan, have you seen KRshNa?" and just went ahead into the woods searching for their beloved KRshNa :)

Shri Radhe!!


Namaste ameyAtmA Ji,

Thanks for explaining about this form.

The Gopis loved only the two armed Bhagavan Sri Krishna.You made an interesting point above,it highlights the attachment a devotee has towards his favorite form of the Lord.

Hmm,my doubt is still there.Although,Sri Krishna manifested the four-armed form,he might not have held the flute in his hands because Sriman Narayana does not carry a flute.And had he carried it then surely the Gopi devotees would have recognized him as Sri Krishna.It seems the form I found is a bit different from the one mentioned in this incident.

[ameyAtmA]

Hmm,my doubt is still there.Although,Sri Krishna manifested the four-armed form,he might not have held the flute in his hands because Sriman Narayana does not carry a flute.And had he carried it then surely the Gopi devotees would have recognized him as Sri Krishna.It seems the form I found is a bit different from the one mentioned in this incident.

You are right the chaturbhuj form we talked about earlier is different. However, BhagvAn can do anything and many Acharya of the past such as VallabhAchArya and some in the RAmAnuj paramparA have mentioned Shri GopAL KRshNa manifesting 2 extra arms playfully in Vraj. One I remember is during dahi - hanDi , the other when chatting with the Gopis. Most likely He was playing or at least holding the flute then. VallabhAchArya's comments indicate that this MurliManohar rUpa was manifesting 2 extra arms on occasion in GokuL and VRndAvan -- during His typical Vraja leelA. At times to shower grace on a devotee, to let them know Who He really is. It is not really different from showing Mother YashodA the universe in His mouth.

There was a member here on HDF who had a rare picture of flute-playing KRshNa with 4 arms as the avatar (HDF profile).

namaste

[Ram11]

You are right the chaturbhuj form we talked about earlier is different. However, BhagvAn can do anything and many Acharya of the past such as VallabhAchArya and some in the RAmAnuj paramparA have mentioned Shri GopAL KRshNa manifesting 2 extra arms playfully in Vraj. One I remember is during dahi - hanDi , the other when chatting with the Gopis. Most likely He was playing or at least holding the flute then. VallabhAchArya's comments indicate that this MurliManohar rUpa was manifesting 2 extra arms on occasion in GokuL and VRndAvan -- during His typical Vraja leelA. At times to shower grace on a devotee, to let them know Who He really is. It is not really different from showing Mother YashodA the universe in His mouth.

There was a member here on HDF who had a rare picture of flute-playing KRshNa with 4 arms as the avatar (HDF profile).

namaste

Namaste Ji,

Thanks a lot for mentioning about Vraja leelA.Do you follow Sri Vallabhacharya's Samparadaya?

I think this form is known as Venugopala in Karnataka but that doesn't really help as Venugopala simply means the Lord with a flute.I found an image,here the Sringeri Srimad Shankaracharya is worshiping this form of Bhagavan.

http://www.sringeri.net/wp-content/uploads//2009/06/a31.jpg

[Viraja]

Namaste,

Some 4-armed variants of Sri Krishna that comes to my mind are i) Sri Guruvayoorappan and ii) Sri Parthasarathy Perumal.

Thanks.

[Ram11]

Namaste,

Some 4-armed variants of Sri Krishna that comes to my mind are i) Sri Guruvayoorappan and ii) Sri Parthasarathy Perumal.

Thanks.

Namaste Ji,

Sri Guruvayoorappan is actually Sriman Narayana.This Sriman Narayana Murthi was worshiped by Sri Krishna,though people generally think it is Bhagavan Sri Krishna.

Is the Parthasarathy Perumal you mentioned the same Perumal in Thiruvallikeni Divya desam?

[Viraja]

Namaste Ji,

Sri Guruvayoorappan is actually Sriman Narayana.This Sriman Narayana Murthi was worshiped by Sri Krishna,though people generally think it is Bhagavan Sri Krishna.

Oh, I did not know that. Thank you. All this time I was thinking Guruvayoorappan is Sri Krishna. There is even a popular Tamil song that sings, "Come to Guruvayoor, see Sri Krishna eating a mouthful of food from mother Yasoda..." :) (Guruvayoorukku vaarungal, ange kuzhandai sirippadhai paarungal, oru vai soru oottum thai mun utkaarndhiruppadai paarungal).


Is the Parthasarathy Perumal you mentioned the same Perumal in Thiruvallikeni Divya desam?


Yes, that is correct.

[Ram11]

Oh, I did not know that. Thank you. All this time I was thinking Guruvayoorappan is Sri Krishna.



Yes, that is correct.


Namaste Ji,

It is said that in every avatara Sriman Narayana took he used to worship himself.Some examples,

1.Sri Ramavatara -Sri Ranganatha Swamy
2.Sri Krishnavatara - Sri Guruvayu Swamy
3.Sri Venkenteshwara - Sri Adi Varaha Swamy

I am trying to find the other forms worshiped by other avatars.

Tiruvallikeni Sri Parthasarthy is a unique Kshetra.It is the only Kshetra where Sri Krishna is worshiped with three generations of his family members.I love this Sri Murthi,again it is very unique as the lord here wears a mustache.

The Perumal here is two armed Ji.

I did not get the chance to visit this Kshetra.:(

I heard the Sakkarai Pongali is very tasty in this temple,I will buy a full vessel when I visit.:D

[Viraja]

[SIZE=3]
It is said that in every avatara Sriman Narayana took he used to worship himself.Some examples,

1.Sri Ramavatara -Sri Ranganatha Swamy
2.Sri Krishnavatara - Sri Guruvayu Swamy
3.Sri Venkenteshwara - Sri Adi Varaha Swamy


An interesting listing, Ram ji! Except that I thought Sri Krishna worshiped the deity 'Ramapriyan' who was formerly worshiped by Sri Rama in Treta Yuga. This deity Ramapriyan is currently in Melkote, accompanying Sri Tirunarayana. Please find the excerpt below:


Rama:- Suryavamsha

Lord Rama in Trethayuga needed an idol for his daily worship, since he had given away his original idol of worship viz, Ranganatha to Vibhishana. So he approaches Brahma, who gives away the idol of Shelvanarayana which was being worshipped by him. Lord Rama, after establishing Ramarajya
decided to leave this world. So he gave away this idol to King Kusha. The idol came to be known as ‘Ramapriya’.

Krishna:- Yadava Dynasty

King Kusha, in turn gave the idol, as marriage gift to Yadavakumara of Yadava dynasty who married his daughter Kanakamalini. Thus the idol Ramapriya changed hands from Suryavamsha to Yadava dynasty. Ultimately, it came to be possessed by Lord Krishna, himself a Yadava, for daily worship by his family. After a long time Balarama and his friends, while on a piligrimage, arrived in Melkote. Looking at Moolavar Tirunarayana Balarama found an identical similarity with Ramapriya – their family idol of worship. Balarama, on return, mentions this similarity to Lord Krishna who does not believe.
Later, Lord Krishna and Balarama together come to Melkote to verify. Krishna looks at Tirunarayana and hails that the idol Ramapriya at their home
is none other than Tirunarayana. Krishna decides that the right place for Ramapriya is to be with Tirunarayana. Thus the idol Ramapriya came to
be installed in Melkote.

"The Perumal here is two armed Ji."

-- thank you for this correction, Ram ji. For some reason, I assumed Thiruvallikkeni Sri Parthasarathy (Krishna) is 4-armed.

Thanks.

[Ram11]

An interesting listing, Ram ji! Except that I thought Sri Krishna worshiped the deity 'Ramapriyan' who was formerly worshiped by Sri Rama in Treta Yuga. This deity Ramapriyan is currently in Melkote, accompanying Sri Tirunarayana. Please find the excerpt below:



Namaste Ji,

Thanks for telling about Sri Ramapriyan Perumal.Our Mutts have many Salagramas,multiple Vigrahas of the same deity,so too Sri Krishna might have worshiped many Sri Vishnu Murthies.

(Just imagine so many Sri Vishnus's worshiping each other:D)

I knew about same Utsavar as Sri Selva Pillai Perumal,who was worshiped by Bhagavad Sri Ramanujacharya and about how Perumal was recovered when he was carried away by Sultans to Delhi.When Ramanujacharya could not locate the Vigraha in the huge treasurey among many other looted Murthis,he called Selva Pillai,and lo, Bhagavan came running from the Sultan's daughter's room and sat on his lap.

But the Sultans daughter loved to play with this image of Sriman Narayana very much and she accompanied him to Melkote and is said have lived there for the rest of her life.

And you will be more surprised if you read the following account.

It is said that a similar situation occurred in Srirangam.When the Utsava Vigraha Sri Namperumal was brought back to Srirangam,another Sultan's daughter followed the Vigraha and is said to have later merged into the Lord.It is said that there is an image of her by the name Thulukka Nachiar in Srirangam and she is offered Roti naivedya cooked in Northern way.I do not know how authentic this story is but you can not miss the similarity present in the tales of Sri Ramapriyan Perumal and Sri Namperumal.

As always, in India many temples share the same story.:grouphug:

P.S. Personally,except the incident involving Srimad Ramanujacharya, I doubt the authenticity of some elements in both the anecdotes I mentioned.

[Viraja]

(Just imagine so many Sri Vishnus's worshiping each other:D)[quote]

Your mention of many Vishnu's worshiping each other brings to memory the 11 Sri Vishnu utsava held annually at ThirunAngUr divyadesa.

[Quote]P.S. Personally,except the incident involving Srimad Ramanujacharya, I doubt the authenticity of some elements in both the anecdotes I mentioned.


Yes, when we ask ourselves about foremost female devotees who merged into lord we can only think of Sri Andal, Sri Kanhopatra and Sri Meera. Thulukka Nachiyar might have been a very great devotee but she merging into lord is something I cannot believe either, because our Acharyas would certainly have, without any bias, made her tale known to the whole world!

Thanks and regards.

[Ram11]

[quote=Ram116040;119562]
(Just imagine so many Sri Vishnus's worshiping each other:D)[quote]

Your mention of many Vishnu's worshiping each other brings to memory the 11 Sri Vishnu utsava held annually at ThirunAngUr divyadesa.



Yes, when we ask ourselves about foremost female devotees who merged into lord we can only think of Sri Andal, Sri Kanhopatra and Sri Meera. Thulukka Nachiyar might have been a very great devotee but she merging into lord is something I cannot believe either, because our Acharyas would certainly have, without any bias, made her tale known to the whole world!

Thanks and regards.


Namaste Ji,

Two eyes would not be sufficient to experience the happiness upon seeing 11 Sri Vishnu's at one time.:)

I did not know about Sri Kanhopatra,thanks for mentioning her name.

[Viraja]

Namaste,

I was thinking about Thulukka Nachiar merging with the Lord.

It reminds me of Swami Ananthalwan's experience with the Lord at Tirumala (7-Hills). Ananthalwan, a foremost disciple of Swami Ramanujar, establishes the garden in Tirumala, after great amount of effort. One morning, he wakes up and finds his garden ruined! The flower plants are totally uprooted and there is complete chaos! The next night he is keeping vigil along with few other devotees the whole night. There! He spots the culprits! A stately looking pair - a couple! As he chases them, the man runs away but the lady gets caught - Ananthalwan ties her down to a tree. Next morning, news comes from Sanctum Sanctorum that the Lord spoke and revealed that the pair Ananthalwan spotted is none other than himself and Sri Alamelumanga (Mahalakshmi) the previous night and to release her! Ananthalwan releases the still tied-down Alamelumanga and brings her to the Sanctum where she merges into the Lord. Alamelumanga says to Ananthalwan she is just like her father. This incident is still sung in praise of Sri Ananthalwan as it is recited in Thirumala, "The father-in-law of the Lord, Sri Ananthalwan, Glory to Him! The father of Alamelumanga, Glory to HIm!".

One can enjoy the vaibhava here: http://acharya.org/bk/pb/Anandazhvan/ThirumalaiAnanthalwan-ABiography.pdf -> page 41 and up.

So, all this happened just 1000 yrs ago, in Kali-yuga! Thulukka Nachiar incident is the same period, when Srimad Ramanujacharya was alive! So I do believe in this incident after reading the above! :)

Regards.