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jopmala
30 August 2014, 12:04 PM
Namaste

Many hindus offer puja to saibaba ( sirdi) but sankaracharaya of dwarkamath has forbidden hindus to do so because saibaba is muslim etc etc. I think members of this forum should have a discussion on this issue since a huge number of followers of saibaba come from hindu soceity.

Viraja
30 August 2014, 01:10 PM
I have serious questions regarding 'amaratvam' or 'immortality' of Shirdi Sai Baba. Sri Raghavendra Swamiji entered 'jeeva brindavana' or 'living grave' asking his followers to keep him alive inside and build a fully enclosed 'tomb' around him. The reason he did so is because even as a saint attaining mukti, his shakti or power will become available via the tomb only he attained his samadhi or 'nirvana' inside it. And even with this, he says, only upto a period of 350 yrs after his attaining of jeeva brindavana, will he remain 'alive' and therefore his shakti will manifest only until that point.

Given the above narrative of the motto behind Raghavendra Swamiji's attainment of jeeva brindavana, I wonder how then can we consider Shirdi Sai Baba who never attained samadhi to be 'ever-present'? I can understand devotees paying 'respects' to saints, such as offering them flowers, prasad, etc, but I can never understand a modern-day saint being worshiped 'solely' as parabrahman, without worship of other vedic deities.

Besides I also concur with Sri Sankaracharya's claim that since Shirdi Sai Baba was a meat-eater, he is not to be considered a saint because true saints do not eat meat. I also doubt on Shirdi Sai Baba's holiness because he never seems to have practiced either of Hinduism or Islam, worshiping any deity to gain his sainthood.

Thanks.

yajvan
30 August 2014, 05:31 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté


Besides I also concur with Sri Sankaracharya's claim that since Shirdi Sai Baba was a meat-eater, he is not to be considered a saint because true saints do not eat meat. .

Can you in form the reader of where you found this information ? And who is the ~committee~ that decides who is a saint and who is not ?

iti śivaṁ

Viraja
30 August 2014, 06:39 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté



Can you in form the reader of where you found this information ? And who is the ~committee~ that decides who is a saint and who is not ?

iti śivaṁ

Namaste,

The information has been found at this site (and many more like this as this news is quite old):

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/sai-baba-used-to-eat-meat-how-can-he-be-called-a-hindu-god-shankaracharya/483429-3.html

As for the second question (who decides who is a saint and who is not), I again refer to the link above - Sri Sankaracharya Swaroopanand Saraswati says so. Besides, none of our Hindu swamis and saints have eaten meat. When the nawab of Adoni presented large chunk of meat covered to look like fruits and presented it to Raghavendra Swamiji, the Swamiji truly changed them to fruits.

Thanks.

ameyAtmA
30 August 2014, 06:48 PM
Can you in form the reader of where you found this information ? And who is the ~committee~ that decides who is a saint and who is not

:) :)

---------------

I wonder how then can we consider Shirdi Sai Baba who never attained samadhi to be 'ever-present'?
Dear Viraja, I am not giving any opinion here, but Sai Baba's devotees see and meet him even today. He comes to them as a fakir dressed in tattered clothes to ask directions, point to something that appears mundane and disappears only to leave the devotees agape and astonished, realizing later it was Sai. He also plays a vital role in protection of their families in daily life. He comes to their rescue when they are in crisis. These are anubhav (experiences), people write in books and Sai magazines.
This is why he is 'amar' to them, and they consider him a partial avatar of DattAtreya. He keeps his promises just as BhagvAn Shri KRshNa keeps promises He made 5300 years ago.

Viraja
30 August 2014, 07:44 PM
Dear Viraja, I am not giving any opinion here, but Sai Baba's devotees see and meet him even today. He comes to them as a fakir dressed in tattered clothes to ask directions, point to something that appears mundane and disappears only to leave the devotees agape and astonished, realizing later it was Sai. He also plays a vital role in protection of their families in daily life. He comes to their rescue when they are in crisis. These are anubhav (experiences), people write in books and Sai magazines.
This is why he is 'amar' to them, and they consider him a partial avatar of DattAtreya. He keeps his promises just as BhagvAn Shri KRshNa keeps promises He made 5300 years ago.

Dear ameyAtmA ji,

It seems believers of Saibaba and non-believers can never be made to change their roles.

I, for one, truly believe in miracles/visions/darshans, etc given by god. But my question here is why is it that Shirdi Saibaba alone must give out darshans when no devotee of vedic deities ever claim they saw such and such a deity in person in front of them? (like Shirdi Saibaba's devotees claim).. It truly occurs to me after reading about such in-person darshans by Shirdi Sai Baba that he is really an avatara of some lower level deity who is interested in growing the number of devotees than an incarnation of a high level deity such as Dattatreya. Truly, is Shirdi Saibaba so compassionate over vedic deities? No immense devotee of these days, devoted to numerous vedic deities - Shiva, Skanda, Ganesha, Dattatreya, Vishnu, Lakshmi, ever claims they saw the deity in front of them...!

Thanks.

yajvan
30 August 2014, 07:52 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté


As for the second question (who decides who is a saint and who is not), I again refer to the link above - Sri Sankaracharya Swaroopanand Saraswati says so. Besides, none of our Hindu swamis and saints have eaten meat.

Thank you for the link...

Please note I have no vested interest in Shirdi Sai Baba , nor in meat eating. I myself as well as my family follow ahiṁsā¹ and to the best of our ability rakṣaṇa¹ practices.

Yet my eyes and ears must be failing me, as I did not hear śaṅkara-ji weigh-in on svami-s or saints eating of meat. I myself do not understand this in full, but I can think of no less then two realized beings¹ that consumed meat. It was their custom ( as they said) and did not give it much thought. I myself greatly respect these jijñāsa-s¹ (knowers) . There must be more to this then meets the mundane eye. Yet I do not advocate any eating of meat , for the reasons vimalananda-ji gives below.

iti śivaṁ

words

ahiṁsā - non- harm
rakṣaṇa - the act of guarding , watching , protecting , tending (of cattle) , preservation
śrī nisargadatta maharāj, vimalananda-ji .

vimalananda-ji tells us of the negative effects of consumption of meat/pork is on the mind. He tells us an additional definition of 'go' is 'an organ of sense' and 'the eye'. Hence 'go' also means a sense organ.
( This is confirmed within the Monier-Williams English to Sanskrit Dictionary)
via the consumption of meat one is more attracted to the world, to the offering of the senses - more attachment is driven by the foodstuffs taken in. One has more difficulty controlling their senses.

The more violence used to obtain the meat for consumption , the more of this violence is transferred to the consumer. The more you will find yourself within / confronted by friction or discord within your surroundings. That is for some reason this consumption of meat ( via violence to obtain it) attracts violence to the end-user.

Viraja
30 August 2014, 08:23 PM
Truly obliged for your reply, Yajvan Ji!

Thanks.

Ram11
30 August 2014, 09:31 PM
Namaste,

Few weeks ago we had a discussion on this topic and it turned out ugly.Sri Satay had to intervene and delete many posts.

EDIT:I am not taking any side,since Yajvan Ji asked about the committee I am mentioning this.This week Srimad Shankaracharya organized a Dharma Sansad,a parliament-like meet of various eminent members to discuss on this and many important issues affecting Hinduism.The Mahapanditas of Kashi i.e. the Kashi Vidwat Parishad was also involved.Srimad Swamiji invited the members of Shiridi Sai Baba Management to come and present their views and arguments in their support from the scriptures but they refused to accept his invitation.Later as the Sabha was going on,some devotees of Sai Baba barged onto the stage and they were allegedly heckled by some others on the stage.Finally,the Dharma Sansad and Kashi Mahapanditas issued an advice saying that there was no scriptural basis to worship the Saint of Shiridi.

ameyAtmA
30 August 2014, 11:26 PM
No immense devotee of these days, devoted to numerous vedic deities - Shiva, Skanda, Ganesha, Dattatreya, Vishnu, Lakshmi, ever claims they saw the deity in front of them...!

Thanks.

Even if they don't tell you, I am sure many do. What if I tell you yes, I have seen my Beloved Lord? If I remember, you have too. Not only that, VAsudev is always always by my side, and He is here now watching me type.

That is not to say I want to prove anything about Sai Baba, and I also had questions about the Satyanarayan puja (Satya-Datta puja?) they do in Shirdi. One thing to note is they use rose petals for the abhishek and not tulasi leaves.