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silence_speaks
10 September 2014, 07:03 AM
CAUTION: These are my personal musings as I study various vedantic texts. As such they may involve rejection of various ideas. Some of these ideas may be useful to some and so, if anything seems hurting your sentiments, please ignore and do not proceed with these statements. The qualification of a student for a particular teaching is not by labeling ... it happens automatically ... even as the student reads, he might dislike advaita. Advaita involves rejection of ideas that run counter to it and this cannot be avoided in any advaitic writeup.

Friends,
:) I would like to use this thread to post some random musings ... some of them would be like zen koans ... a few may be useful explanations ... and many of these may be borrowed from elsewhere !!

The idea is to share a few musings on meditative living ... Self Abidance.
they could be useful for the readers as much as myself, as I muse over them !!


Love!
Silence

silence_speaks
10 September 2014, 07:05 AM
Heal the Wound, Don't Just Clean The Pus


Thoughts arise as long as the potential for thoughts exists within.
Our objective in sadhana is not to "eliminate thoughts" but to "eliminate the potential for thoughts"

Its like a wound from which pus is coming out. We have to not just clean the pus ... we have to operate the wound which causes the pus.

Most often people confuse by thinking that sadhana means to eliminate thoughts. A serious sadhaka would know that some times during sadhana lot of thoughts may arise and its only good that they arise. Like air entrapped in water, that has to come out. The pus has to be cleaned, but more importantly the wound of ignorance [about our true state] needs to be healed.

silence_speaks
10 September 2014, 07:06 AM
Peace Need Not Always Mean Spiritual Development

Most often peace is seen as a measure of spiritual development. This is also a problem. This kind of idea is extended to say that a particular guru is very spiritual because one gets peace in his presence :)! This should not be used as a "measurement" technique to gauge the guru's spiritual development.

Peace may be experienced due to various reasons including physical or emotional circumstances. If I am a smoker, non-smoking disturbs my peace, but that is spiritual development. Many times, Facing the stiuation that is not conducive is true spiritual development.

and if a chosen guru does not speak what "We like to hear", :) we may not experience peace in his presence. Sometimes we want to just hear what we think is right... not what is correct ! :)

yajvan
10 September 2014, 11:21 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

It seems to me your post title can be viewed as Reveling in the SELF, or it can be Revealing the SELF. Yet I am not certain of Reveling as Self. Perhaps you can add some clarification for the reader?

Either way will work... Yet to me the Self is revealed, but not at 100% clarity. We are nothing but the Self, so to reveal it suggests there is another Self and this is not possible ( so says ramaṅa mahaṛṣi ).

iti śivaṁ

satay
10 September 2014, 01:50 PM
namaste,
This is my favourite. I came across it when reading osho many years ago.

Sound of one hand

The master of Kennin temple was Mokurai, Silent Thunder. He had a little protege named Toyo who was only twelve years old. Toyo saw the older disciples visit the master's room each morning and evening to receive instruction in sanzen or personal guidance in which they were given koans to stop mind-wandering.

Toyo wished to do sanzen also.

"Wait a while," said Mokurai. "You are too young."

But the child insisted, so the teacher finally consented.

In the evening little Toyo went at the proper time to the threshold of Mokurai's sanzen room. He struck the gong to announce his presence, bowed respectfully three times outside the door, and went to sit before the master in respectful silence.

"You can hear the sound of two hands when they clap together," said Mokurai. "Now show me the sound of one hand."

Toyo bowed and went to his room to consider this problem. From his window he could hear the music of the geishas. "Ah, I have it!" he proclaimed.

The next evening, when his teacher asked him to illustrate the sound of one hand, Toyo began to play the music of the geishas.

"No, no," said Mokurai. "That will never do. That is not the sound of one hand. You've not got it at all."

Thinking that such music might interrupt, Toyo moved his abode to a quiet place. He meditated again. "What can the sound of one hand be?" He happened to hear some water dripping. "I have it," imagined Toyo.

When he next appeared before his teacher, Toyo imitated dripping water.

"What is that?" asked Mokurai. "That is the sound of dripping water, but not the sound of one hand. Try again."

In vain Toyo meditated to hear the sound of one hand. He heard the sighing of the wind. But the sound was rejected.

He heard the cry of an owl. This also was refused.

The sound of one hand was not the locusts.

For more than ten times Toyo visited Mokurai with different sounds. All were wrong. For almost a year he pondered what the sound of one hand might be.

At last little Toyo entered true meditation and transcended all sounds. "I could collect no more," he explained later, "so I reached the soundless sound."

Toyo had realized the sound of one hand.

JaiMaaDurga
10 September 2014, 03:28 PM
Namaste,

"Three worlds in a puddle."

JAI MATA DI

silence_speaks
11 September 2014, 12:22 AM
Dear Yajvan ji,
:) Namasthe!






It seems to me your post title can be viewed as Reveling in the SELF, or it can be Revealing the SELF. Yet I am not certain of Reveling as Self. Perhaps you can add some clarification for the reader?

To Revel "in" Self, I should be something other than the Self.
To "Reveal" the Self --- it should be unrevealed.

To Revel as Self ... Since I am the Self, where is the option ? :)
But often we take ourselves to be non-Self ...
for example if i say "Some times i am happy, some times sad" ... it means i have taken myself to be the mind. These simple pointers undo the wrong notion .... and one Revels as Self, effortlessly, since one is already the Self.



Either way will work... Yet to me the Self is revealed, but not at 100% clarity.


"To me Self is Revealed" ... who is this "me" ? Its Mind -- and you are not the Mind! Who feels there is lack of clarity ? Mind ! You are not the mind !




We are nothing but the Self, so to reveal it suggests there is another Self and this is not possible ( so says ramaṅa mahaṛṣi ).Yes. We are ever the Self --- and infact Self is ever revealed. But unfortunately we take ourselves to be something else.

In actuality ... Truth is not revealed , wrong notions are rejected ! Truth is self Evident.

It is like the story of 10 men who cross a river. After crossing the river one of them counts the rest, leaving himself out and concludes that there are only 9. So now ... they are in deep trouble, one of their friends seem to have drowned in the river! And then .... one person comes and says , please stand in a line as i count .... and he takes a stick and hits on each person's head. "As I hit, utter out your count" ... and so when he goes on to hit the last person ... he says "Ten"! And there is great relief.

The 10th person was ever Revealed... but to the one who "does not see him" ... the ignorance can be removed by someone who has the vision of the Truth presented by the Scriptures.

so there is nothing new to be revealed is from one stand point - the stand point of the one who "Sees Himself" [infact to say sees himself is also incorrect ... but words are limited]....




Love!
Silence

silence_speaks
11 September 2014, 12:26 AM
Q: I know that listening to the Guru and believing his words is important. When he says, 'You are the Self. The world is not real," and so on, I can accept that what he says is true, but my belief in the truth of those words does not seem to make it my experience.

Annamalai Swami:
You must believe the Guru and you must also believe your own experience because the Guru is not telling you to add another belief to your mind. He is instead telling you to look at your own experience of yourself, and in doing so, disregard everything else.

There is a story that Ram Tirtha used to tell. A man who was a little mad lived in a small village with his wife. His friends liked to tease him and make fun of him because they all thought he was stupid.

One day, one of them said, 'We have some bad news for you. Your wife has become a widow.'

He believed them and started crying out in grief, 'My wife has become a widow! My wife has become a widow!'

Some of the people he passed on the street laughed at him and said, 'Why are you mourning? You are very much alive. How can your wife be a widow if you yourself are alive to complain about it?'

'My closest friends have told me this,' he replied, 'and I trust them. They are very reliable people. If they are saying that my wife has become a widow, it must be true.'

We would think that a man who behaved like this was utterly stupid because he chose to believe the words of others instead of his own experience. But are we any better? We believe, on the basis of indirect information provided by the senses, that we are the body. The experience of 'I am', of the Self, is present in all of us, but when the mischievous senses gang up on us and try to make us believe something that is patently untrue, we believe them and ignore our direct experience.

Then we grieve about our state, lamenting, 'I am bound; I am unenlightened; I am not free'.

And even when the Guru comes along and says, 'You are the Self. You are free. Why do you insist on believing this misinformation that the mischievous senses are giving you?' still you do not believe the truth.

You tell him, "The senses have always given me reliable information in the past. I have learned to trust them. What they tell me must be true.'

And so you go on grieving and complaining, even when your direct experience and the words of the Guru agree with each other and reveal the truth.




~ Annamalai Swami, Final Talks, edited by David Godman

silence_speaks
11 September 2014, 12:41 AM
Q: You say that everything is the Self, even maya. If this is so, why cant I see the Self clearly ? If this is so, why can't I see the Self clearly ?
Why is it hidden from me ?

AS: Because you are looking in the wrong direction. You have the idea that the Self is something that you see or experience . This is not so. The Self is the Awareness or consciousness in which the seeing and the experiencing take place.
Even if you don't see the Self, the Self is still there. Bhagavan some times remarked humorously: "People just open a newspaper and glance through it. Then they sau , ' I have seen the paper'. But really they haven't seen the paper , they have only seen the letters without the paper, but people always forget the paper while they are reading the words "

Bhagavan would then use this analogy to show that while people see the names and forms that appear on the screen of consciousness, they ignore the screen itself. With this kind of partial vision its easy to come to the conclusion that all forms are unconnected with each other and separate from the peron who sees them. If people were to be aware of the consciousness instead of the forms that appear in it, they would realize that all forms are just appearances which manifest within the one invisible consciousness.

That consciousness is the Self that you are looking for. You can be that consciousness but you can never see it because its not something that is separate from you.



Annamalai Swami -- Living by the words of Bhagavan.

devotee
11 September 2014, 06:32 AM
Good thread and good postings ! :)

OM

yajvan
11 September 2014, 12:05 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté




"To me Self is Revealed" ... who is this "me" ? Its Mind -- and you are not the Mind! Who feels there is lack of clarity ? Mind ! You are not the mind !


It may just be mind for you... I see it differently. Now you will ask who is this 'I' ? Words cause mischief.

The only thing that will be perfectly understood is silence.

iti śivaṁ

silence_speaks
11 September 2014, 10:52 PM
Dear Yajvan ji,
:) Namasthe!


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

It may just be mind for you... I see it differently. Now you will ask who is this 'I' ? Words cause mischief.

The only thing that will be perfectly understood is silence.

iti śivaṁ


The one who asks "Who is this "I" " is mind!
Please see ... Body does not have any trouble.
Awareness too does not have any trouble.

so if at all there is any trouble , its only at the level of the mind ! So ignorance is in mind, understanding too is in mind. For that matter all spiritual instructions are for mind!!

Regarding Silence, Well, it depends on what one understands from that word.

1. If Silence is the silence of mind, then there is nothing to be understood nor anyone to understand. Body does not understand ... Awareness is ever detached, changeless ! so if its silence of mind, there is nothing to be understood.

2. If however Silence is used to refer to the Presence ... "refer", because its only "indicated meaning " .... then understanding would resolve the ignorance of mind and leave the person as Self !

:)


It may just be mind for you... I see it differently.


That is a thought and hence mind ! So there cannot be two opinions about it , isnt it so ?

Love!
Silence

silence_speaks
11 September 2014, 11:00 PM
Dear Yajvan ji,
:)
I would also like to bring to your notice a quote from Vedanta Panchadasi:



dehaatmaGYaanavajGYaana.N dehaatmaGYaanabaadhakam |
aatmanyeva bhavedyasya sa necChannapi mucyate ||

देहात्मज्ञानवज्ज्ञानँ देहात्मज्ञानबाधकम्।
आत्मन्येव भवेद्यस्य स नेच्छन्नपि मुच्यते॥

dehatmagyanavat - as the knowledge in the ignorant people that body is the Self.
Gyanam - knowledge
dehatmagyanabaadhakam - that which removes the knowledge that body is the Self.
atmaani in Self, pure consciousness...
eva alone
bhavet - takes place
yasya .. whose
sah he
na ichan api muchyate ... is liberated even if he is not desiring (for it)

when a man is firmly convinced of his identity with the Self [Awareness] as an ordinary man is convinced of his identity with the body, he is liberated even if he does not wish for it!
-------------------> Translation by Tejomayananda , vedanta panchadasi chapter 7, verse 20.

As long as i equate myself with mind, this knowledge conviction does not take place.

And queer thing is the knowledge can only take place in mind in the form of conviction .... this is verse 21 ...
So Vedanta Panchadasi could be referred to if you like to ... it has some interesting revelations.

JaiMaaDurga
12 September 2014, 05:42 AM
Namaste,

"The veil-
Under the veil-
Beyond the veil-

Who else?"

JAI MATA DI

silence_speaks
15 September 2014, 05:25 AM
WAKING AND DREAM STATES ARE TOTALLY EQUAL:
YOGA VASISHTA:

Yoga Vasishta:
svapne nimagnadhiirjantuH pashyati sthirataa.N yathaa |
sargasvapne magnabuddhiH pashyati sthirataa.N tathaa|| (285)


स्वप्ने निमग्नधीर्जन्तुः पश्यति स्थिरताँ यथा।
सर्गस्वप्ने मग्नबुद्धिः पश्यति स्थिरताँ तथा॥


As a person whose mind is merged in the dream sees the stability of the dream, so also the one whose mind is merged in the dream like universes sees it to be stable.



--------------------------

Yoga Vasishta:
jaagratsvapnadashaabhedo na sthiraasthirate vinaa|
samaH sadaiva sarvatra samasto.anubhavo.anayoH || (303)


जाग्रत्स्वप्नदशाभेदो न स्थिरास्थिरते विना।
समः सदैव सर्वत्र समस्तोऽनुभवोऽनयोः॥


There is no difference between waking and dreaming states except for stability and instability. The combined (whole) experience of these two is the same always and everywhere.

silence_speaks
15 September 2014, 05:34 AM
LOGICAL REASONING IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT:

उपविश्योपविश्यैकचित्तकेन मुहुर्मुहुः।
न शक्यते मनो जेतुँ विन युक्तिम्-अनिन्दिताम्॥

[Laghu yoga vasishta 28.126]


By repeatedly bringing the mind back to One-pointedness, it cannot be conquered unless one is equipped with faultless reasoning [scriptural reasoning in the context]


अङ्कुशेन विना मत्तो यथा दुष्टमतङ्गजः।
विजेतुँ शक्यते नैव तथ युकत्याविना मनः॥

[Laghu Yoga vasishta 28.127]
The mind cannot be brought under control without the application of reasoning even as a vicious elephant in rut cannot be controlled without using the hook.


Thats why Vasishta suggests:
अध्यात्मविध्यधिगमः सधुसँगम एव च।
वासनासँपरित्यागः प्रणस्पन्दनिशेधनम्॥
एतास्तु युक्तयः पुष्टाः सन्ति चितजये किल॥


Study of Scriptures, Company of the Holy, renunciation of desires and control of vital energy are the perfect
means to conquer the mind

[LYV 28.128 & 129 first line].

silence_speaks
19 September 2014, 04:12 AM
सुखमास्ते सुखं शेते
सुखमायाति याति च।
सुखं वक्ति सुखं भुंक्ते
व्यवहारेऽपि शान्तधीः॥१८- ५९॥




Happy he stands, happy he sits, happy sleeps and happy he comes and goes. Happy he speaks, and happy he eats. Such is the life of a man at peace.॥59॥


Happy = "Out of inner completeness"


----------------> Ashtavakra Gita chapter 18 verse 59

silence_speaks
01 October 2014, 01:00 AM
The other day somebody had brought a toy from U.S when it is switched on, it moves around crazily in all directions. It was put inside a plastic bag and placed on floor. The plastic bag started moving crazily too. IT is obvious that it was not the plastic bag which was moving but it was the toy inside which was driving it in different directions.



In the same way, if you are a cry baby (inside - an unhappy person within) , when you get married, you cry as a married man; you remain a bachelor and you cry as a bachelor; if you are rich, you cry as a rich person; if you are poor, you lament your poverty.

---> Swami Suddhananda

silence_speaks
01 October 2014, 01:17 AM
The consciousness is, the object is, the thought is, the body is, the sense organs are. There is no mutual resistance among them untiil the "I" thought , the individuality appears on the scene. The "I" thought, the seer, the onlooker, the thinker taking on a particular role starts messing around with the sense object world. Meddling with thoughts, denouncing, accepting, rejecting, branding, involving yourself in various ways , you loose sight of your Self. If the individuality does not speak within, the whole universe would be absolutely quiet.



----> Swami Suddhananda

silence_speaks
18 October 2014, 10:11 PM
Please listen to this secret , with great alertness: Ribhu Gita, chapter 8
इदँ प्रपञ्चँ यत् किञ्चित् यः शृणोति च पश्यति।
दृश्यरूपँ च दृग्रूपँ सर्वँ शशविषाणवत्॥
Whatever traces of this world one hears or one sees of it, the form that is seen and the form of seer are all like horns of a hare

silence_speaks
25 October 2014, 12:35 PM
अखिन्नँ क्षणमासीनः पश्य सँसार-नाटकम्।
चिदानन्दघनँ स्वच्छम् आत्मानँ च विभावय।
एवँ स्थास्यसि नित्यँ चेत् तीर्णाऽसि भवसागरात्॥


Seated for a moment, undejected, observe this drama of the samsara and contemplate on the Pure Self as the mass of consciousness and Bliss. If you always remain thus, you have crossed the ocean of samsara.
------> Yoga Vasishta Maharamayanam.

silence_speaks
29 October 2014, 06:24 AM
if a monkey has a wound ... it would not allow it to heal ... it keeps on scratching it every time it heals a little bit! as a result the wound never heals ! in normal course it should have healed.

same thing with our worldliness ... we do not allow it to heal ... we keep on scratching it !!

-> Swami Tattvavidananda Saraswati.

silence_speaks
29 October 2014, 06:26 AM
Whatever thoughts come, ignore them. You have to ignore anything that is connected to the body-mind idea, anything that is based on the notion that you are the mind or the body. if you can do this, the raising of thought will not disturb or distract you. in a split second , it will run away.
All thoughts are distractions, including the thought ' i am meditating'. if you are the Self, darkness will not overcome you. what ever thoughts arise in that state wont affect you.

--> Annamalai Swami Final Talks , page 86

silence_speaks
29 October 2014, 06:28 AM
What ever kind of thought arises, have the same reaction: 'Not me, not my business'. IT can be a good thought or a bad thought. Treat them the same way. To whom are these thoughts arising ? To You. That means you are not the thought.
You are the Self. Remain as the Self, and don't latch onto anything that is not the Self.

--> Annamalai Swami Final Talks 84

silence_speaks
29 October 2014, 06:31 AM
Remember , nothing that happens to mind is 'you', and none of it is your business. You don't have to worry about thoughts that rise up inside you.Its enough that you remember that the thoughts are not you.

---> Annamalai Swami Final Talks pg 82

silence_speaks
29 October 2014, 06:34 AM
Page 260, living by the words of bhagavan
Annamalai Swami


You must generate the conviction, "I am the all-pervasive consciousness in which all bodes and minds in the world are appearing and disappearing. I am that consciousness which remains unchanged and unaffected by these appearances and disappearances ". Stabilise yourself in that conviction. Thats all you need to do.

silence_speaks
29 October 2014, 06:40 AM
Q: You say that everything is the Self, even maya. If this is so, why cant I see the Self clearly ? If this is so, why can't I see the Self clearly ?
Why is it hidden from me ?

AS: Because you are looking in the wrong direction. You have the idea that the Self is something that you see or experience . This is not so. The Self is the Awareness or consciousness in which the seeing and the experiencing take place.
Even if you don't see the Self, the Self is still there. Bhagavan some times remarked humorously: "People just open a newspaper and glance through it. Then they sau , ' I have seen the paper'. But really they haven't seen the paper , they have only seen the letters without the paper, but people always forget the paper while they are reading the words "

Bhagavan would then use this analogy to show that while people see the names and forms that appear on the screen of consciousness, they ignore the screen itself. With this kind of partial vision its easy to come to the conclusion that all forms are unconnected with each other and separate from the peron who sees them. If people were to be aware of the consciousness instead of the forms that appear in it, they would realize that all forms are just appearances which manifest within the one invisible consciousness.

That consciousness is the Self that you are looking for. You can be that consciousness but you can never see it because its not something that is separate from you.

---> Annamalai Swami pg 265-266, living by the words of Bhagavan