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MountainSpirit
14 November 2014, 02:40 AM
hello,

What I have read mostly is that you meditate by repeating a mantra over and over in your head and focus only on the mantra, basically shutting out all thoughts. Is this the kind of meditation used in the Hindu tradition to reach enlightenment? Or is that a different form of meditation which involved thinking deeply about something? If so, can someone explain to me how it works?

silence_speaks
14 November 2014, 08:42 PM
Dear Mountain Spirit,
:) Namasthe!

Mantra means mananat trayate iti mantrah... upon contemplation it releases you from bondage.

note : upon contemplation, not upon repetition.

To contemplate you should have the meaning ... meaning well learnt and properly ascertained from a good guru who can teach.

Then if you contemplate on it ... it will lead to enlightenment!!


Love!
Silence

devotee
14 November 2014, 10:17 PM
Namaste MS,


What I have read mostly is that you meditate by repeating a mantra over and over in your head and focus only on the mantra, basically shutting out all thoughts. Is this the kind of meditation used in the Hindu tradition to reach enlightenment? Or is that a different form of meditation which involved thinking deeply about something? If so, can someone explain to me how it works?

Meditation should not be taught or learnt on internet because grace of Guru is required for success in meditational practice. Meditation done in wrong way can do harm than any good.

However, I will give you some signals :

In reality, you are not bound but eternally free. You are omnipresent and omnipotent. You are Brahman. Now, the questions arise :

a) What is this "you" or for that matter "I" ?

Pure Infinite Consciousness which we call Self is the sole reality. You and "I" are thought-waves on the Reality/Self. This thought-wave acted by MAyA or nature of Brahman, projects your mind and your body and also veils the Reality/Self. You are nothing but mind (which is not brain but that which observes, thinks, stores memory and assumes the ownership of thoughts and actions). Mind is nothing but Self turned outward due to agitation within consciousness because of desires/fear/past impressions gathered and tendencies created etc. When the agitation of mind stops completely by any means, the Mind vanishes and Self reveals.

b) Meditation is one of the practices for Self-realisation. Meditation is performed in various ways but the central aim of doing meditation is to achieve perfect stillness of mind.

OM

MountainSpirit
15 November 2014, 04:08 AM
Namaste MS,



Meditation should not be taught or learnt on internet because grace of Guru is required for success in meditational practice. Meditation done in wrong way can do harm than any good.

However, I will give you some signals :

In reality, you are not bound but eternally free. You are omnipresent and omnipotent. You are Brahman. Now, the questions arise :

a) What is this "you" or for that matter "I" ?

Pure Infinite Consciousness which we call Self is the sole reality. You and "I" are thought-waves on the Reality/Self. This thought-wave acted by MAyA or nature of Brahman, projects your mind and your body and also veils the Reality/Self. You are nothing but mind (which is not brain but that which observes, thinks, stores memory and assumes the ownership of thoughts and actions). Mind is nothing but Self turned outward due to agitation within consciousness because of desires/fear/past impressions gathered and tendencies created etc. When the agitation of mind stops completely by any means, the Mind vanishes and Self reveals.

b) Meditation is one of the practices for Self-realisation. Meditation is performed in various ways but the central aim of doing meditation is to achieve perfect stillness of mind.

OM



Ok. But meditation to seek enlightenment does involve focusing on concepts and not simply clearing ones head of thoughts?

And you say meditation done the wrong way can do harm. How can it be harmful?

Eastern Mind
15 November 2014, 12:19 PM
What I have read mostly is that you meditate by repeating a mantra over and over in your head and focus only on the mantra, basically shutting out all thoughts. Is this the kind of meditation used in the Hindu tradition to reach enlightenment? Or is that a different form of meditation which involved thinking deeply about something? If so, can someone explain to me how it works?

Vannakkam: This term 'meditation' is understood differently by many, and is taught differently by different teachers. What is your understanding as it stands now?

Aum Namasivaya

MountainSpirit
16 November 2014, 02:30 AM
Vannakkam: This term 'meditation' is understood differently by many, and is taught differently by different teachers. What is your understanding as it stands now?

Aum Namasivaya

Well, the version of meditation that was explained to me was transcendental meditation I believe, and from what I have read, it is based on Hindu meditation. It is basically where you focus on a mantra and the object is to clear the mind and focus only on that one word.

Eastern Mind
16 November 2014, 04:14 PM
Vannakkam: I'm not personally familiar with TM, but others here are.
As far as I know, which is very little, TM isn't designed with samadhi in mind, but I could very well be wrong.

Aum Namasivaya

devotee
16 November 2014, 06:48 PM
Namaste MS,


Ok. But meditation to seek enlightenment does involve focusing on concepts and not simply clearing ones head of thoughts?

As I told you meditation is done in many ways. What is a concept ? It is a thought. If you focus on a thought, you consciously bring your mind to that thought. If you focus on certain mantra you keep bringing mind to that mantra. If you focus on breath, you keep bringing mind to that breath. So, what you achieve is reducing the unforced wandering of mind or drifting of mind. This improves concentration. This stills the mind.


And you say meditation done the wrong way can do harm. How can it be harmful?

Yes. As you are interfering with the process of mind or existence of mind, it should be done in right way and by invoking Gurus/God to help you. This is because of vulnerability of mind in the initial periods. Mind is used to drifting in thoughts in an average person just like an alcoholic is used to alcohol. So, it has to be brought into control patiently and rightly invoking Guru/God otherwise harmful external vibrations can affect mind during the vulnerable period. One can even lose his mental balance because of this.

OM

saswathy
16 November 2014, 09:27 PM
Dear friends ,
When we meditate we can't concentrate on nothingness . At least in the initial stages we should have something ,some object , some manthra , some name to concentrate upon .Just as there are microbes , bacteria , viruses , and other bad poisonous elements in the atmosphere invisible to the naked eye , we are surrounded with many evil forces also along with good forces .When mind tries to meditate , the evil forces enter in to the psyche unless there is some strong good protecting influence .Precisely for this reason we are advised by our gurus , elders and sages to take some name or manthra .Thus essentially meditation in the initial stages is manthra or nama japa .As one progresses , one may reach a stage where the need for manthra may not be there . But at that stage also , the yogi does not stop manthrajapa altogether unless he enters in to samadhi , a state where ordinary mortals can't reach. When we discuss about all these techniques or practices we have a common man or woman in view but not a siddhayogi. Siddhayogis obviously don't need the internet fora .

yajvan
16 November 2014, 10:44 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Thus essentially meditation in the initial stages is manthra or nama japa .As one progresses , one may reach a stage where the need for manthra may not be there . But at that stage also , the yogi does not stop manthrajapa altogether unless he enters in to samadhi , a state where ordinary mortals can't reach.

If what you say is true, who then is patañjali’s yogadarśana aimed at ? It surely is not the muni for the end-state has been reached. And it is not for the brute who knows nothing of this knowledge. It is aimed at the one's that aspire for the wholeness of consciousness to be revealed.

samādhi समाधि- is one-pointed absorption; One can say the mind is absorbed or 'concentrated' - but it is not the act of concentrating.
It is not only for the few ; it is for the one that practices. But what practice? Aṣṭāṅga ( 8 limbs) of yoga or other means ( of which I can think of 112 ways¹).

iti śivaṁ

words


The 112 ways - this is the subject matter of the vijñānabhairava kārikā-s. This work belongs to the bhairava-āgamas.

silence_speaks
16 November 2014, 11:57 PM
Friends,
:)

Concentrating mind is an aid ... not liberation.
Liberation is to realize that you are not the mind !

Concentration may calm the mind ... and then i say i am calm.
Then again when its agitated ... i say its agitated.

Which just means that the idea "I am mind" is still perpetuated.

Realization is "I am not the Mind"!!

That is why its only "Mananam of mantra" ... which leads to liberation.

Nidhidhyasana [Sravana-Manana-Nidhidhyasana]... is different from Dharana and Dhyana as taught in Pathanjali yoga sutras. Liberation is through Nidhidhyasana , not through mere Dhyana.



Love!
Silence

saswathy
17 November 2014, 05:56 AM
Dear freinds ,
one thing leads to another .

by saying -'-one thing leads to another ' --- I mean that there are different stages in the path which an aspirant has to cross. That is my belief and practice.

yajvan
17 November 2014, 08:12 AM
namaste


Dear freinds ,
one thing leads to another .

by saying -'-one thing leads to another ' --- I mean that there are different stages in the path which an aspirant has to cross. That is my belief and practice.

No one denies anyone their opinion. In fact we encourage it.That said, it would be wise to state that in your posts such as given in post 9 above. We as a reader then understand your orientation and it is becomes helpful when responding.

iti sivam

saswathy
17 November 2014, 08:41 AM
Dear friend ,
What I said is self explanatory and I believe a sadhaka going in the chosen path experiences all the different states . No two experiences are same and no two people experience the same. Hence if I try to explain , it is not going to be accepted totally . On the other hand it is going to be scorned .

brahma jijnasa
17 November 2014, 12:59 PM
hello,

What I have read mostly is that you meditate by repeating a mantra over and over in your head and focus only on the mantra, basically shutting out all thoughts. Is this the kind of meditation used in the Hindu tradition to reach enlightenment? Or is that a different form of meditation which involved thinking deeply about something? If so, can someone explain to me how it works?

Namaste MountainSpirit and welcome to HDF

Many newbies do not know what "Meditation" really is about in Hindu Dharma. They often think that this is when you "meditate on something", or that it is only a repetition of mantra, a mantra meditation. But what we call "Meditation" is much, much more than that. Study the Bhagavad gita and you'll see what it all meant by the term "Meditation". Not long ago I wrote about it here: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=116610#post116610

Even when you read something about God, some story, from some Purana you meditate, when you remember how God looks like as we have the form of the deity on the altar in the temple (murti) or on the photo or image you meditate, even when you offer respectful obeisances to God you meditate, when you offer Him some fruit you meditate ("If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it." Bhagavad gita 9.26), ... etc, etc ..., when you repeat holy names of God you meditate, when you walk down the street and remember something related to God you meditate, ... etc, all this is meditation!
Actually whole our life can be one continuous meditation, and that is precisely the essence of the concept of "Meditation" to reach enlightenment in Hindu Dharma.



regards

Amrut
18 November 2014, 05:54 AM
hello,

What I have read mostly is that you meditate by repeating a mantra over and over in your head and focus only on the mantra, basically shutting out all thoughts. Is this the kind of meditation used in the Hindu tradition to reach enlightenment? Or is that a different form of meditation which involved thinking deeply about something? If so, can someone explain to me how it works?

Namaste,

The simple approach is to make extrovert mind introvert. This is done by increasing sattva guna. Any action done has to be done for noble cause, for good of humanity, for God and for Saints who have dedicated their lives to the path of God.

After the mind becomes introvert, one is considered ready to chant any mantra. Generally any form of God that suits you is recommended. Or it has to be trial and error. By chanting whichever mantra your mind calms down easily as compared to other mantras is the best that suits you Read stuti-s (glories of that God), and other spiritual stuff like Gita. In short increase your time with God as much as possible.

Initially, a mantra is chanted in mind i.e. generally what is naturally done by all meditators. There are too many thoughts that disturb the flow of meditation. the entire process cannot be described, but is discussed when someone actually practicing faces genuine problems. But as one progresses, % of thoughts decreases and the % of mantra i.e. time spend in chanting a mantra increases. Gradually, a time will come when the mantra will continue by itself. you will not have to make an effort to chant it. Now focus on the source of mantra. Be aware of mantra, it's source i.e. from where it originates and from where it terminates. This will ensure that the meditation is continuous. You are now aware of silence, the mantra and the silence following at the end of mantra, then next mantra and so on. When this happens consider yourself as very lucky and know that grace of God has descended upon you.

Gradually, the time of mantra chanting increases and one has first glimpse of samadhi may be even for a few seconds. Now begins the actual journey. Now you know (in direct experience) that that is samadhi, now you know final destination. Till now you were faithfully following words of guru and Shastras, but now by the grace of God and Guru, they have made you to experience your true nature. This is what I call it as a 'trailor'. Now you exactly know how to meditate and mantra will merge in heart, everything will dissolve in silence, everything will merge into one essence, the ultimate truth, the completeness.

After repeated entering into samadhi, dis-satisfied desires and karma-s all get destroyed. A day will come when you will no more need to sit into meditation make an effort, chant mantra, and then enter into samadhi. You will already be in samadhi, which is your natural state.

As far as Self enquiry is concerned, it is equally helpful, but reserved only for advanced meditators, as which each thought, 'I am not body, I am not mind, etc' consciousness withdraws from body, mind, etc and then completely dis-associates itself with anything that is non-Self and a state will come when you will realize yourself as the only reality that exists. This second path is not recommended for all. Mantra chanting is a better choice. In advaita, one also chants OM. OM chanting is also not for everybody. Only to that who is ready to leave everything for Brahman, is considered worthy. Else life will be hell. Inner purity is necessary, as at one time, in meditation, OM removes all attachments and at other time, in day-2-day life, you try to fulfill your own desires. So there is a clash. If your have very strong unfulfilled desires, better chant name of any form of God. To OM, you know not ask for any desire, but pray to uproot anything. OM is one such mantra, which takes you directly and naturally into samadhi, beyond maya, beyond mind.

So first is to make extrovert mind introvert. Guru helps make extrovert mind introvert. God who is inside us establishes introvert mind into heart (source, Brahman). This heart is not physical heart.

If there is no Guru, pay to God to show you the way, try to increase sattva guna by doing more of sattvika activities. Rest all will follow.

Another path is the path of Yoga in which a guru activates kundalini and there are processes (kriyas) by which one can cleanse (imp) and then activate Kundalini and chakras so that there is Yoga (union) of (Jiva)Atman and Paramatman. Yogis also have devotion of God and like all other valid paths, they too develop dispassion (in worldly matters) and in our relatives.

Just to make a point that in mantra chanting (japa), mind calms down and intimacy with God or Brahman increases. Hence it is not a process (kriya). Many find it helpful to visualize a form of their beloved deity while chanting mantra or some simply gaze the deity. Gazing is not focusing. you cannot focus on entire form from head to toe, but you can be aware of it. Some find it easy to visualize feet while some as said in Bhagavat Purana, visualize face (as it has all 5 senses)

OM

saswathy
20 November 2014, 08:37 PM
Dear friend ,
All the scriptures and the suthras of higher knowledge are not for a common man who is just on the threshold of spirituality.
When he comes to a stage , where can understand , he can study them . As is pointed out by you , an enlightened person also doesn't require them . Advaitha is not for a beginner. Earnest spiritual quest takes him there in course of time.

Anirudh
21 November 2014, 07:58 PM
Namaste,

Has this discussion not running around two or three variants of views?

I am not a moderator but my humble question to learned folks is are you folks (a) answering the OP or (b) defending the position you have taken?

Can we break the question to find answers?

What is enlightenment ?

Can one attain enlightenment?

What is meditation?

Can meditation help?

If so, how?

After reading all of the replies I understand above questions have been answered directly or indirectly. I too "WAS" practicing as well as victim of (b), thanks to Devotee ji things have permanently changed.

R Gitananda
28 November 2014, 02:01 AM
Namaste

Dear MountainSpirit,

In the shastra we read that Arjuna had to conquer two enemies. The first was his mind. The second was other beings opposed to his mission. Similarly, we have to not only work towards conquering our mind but we have to overcome intelligent forces opposed to our mission. That is why being mentored by a guru is useful. If you don't have a guru then you must have pious devotion to your ishta devata. Otherwise meditation is dangerous and it would be safer to just do selfless service to humanity, read puranas, sing bhajans and associate with the holy when you can. Eventually the opportunity to make further progress will arise.

Hari Aum



Ok. But meditation to seek enlightenment does involve focusing on concepts and not simply clearing ones head of thoughts?

And you say meditation done the wrong way can do harm. How can it be harmful?