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Anirudh
29 November 2014, 10:19 AM
Namaste HDF

What kind of Hinduism followed in Nepal. I have seen animal sacrifice in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Most likely this practice is followed all over India.

How can GOD be pleased with Animal slaughter?


In the past we had discussed about Ashwamedha Yagna and Humam Sacrifices.

If this is acceptable then how are we different from Islam or Christianity which doesn't prohibit Animal Sacrifice.

axlyz
30 November 2014, 07:24 PM
Namaste HDF

What kind of Hinduism followed in Nepal. I have seen animal sacrifice in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Most likely this practice is followed all over India.

How can GOD be pleased with Animal slaughter?


In the past we had discussed about Ashwamedha Yagna and Humam Sacrifices.

If this is acceptable then how are we different from Islam or Christianity which doesn't prohibit Animal Sacrifice.

You are right. I fail to see how God can enjoy these types of acts.

R Gitananda
01 December 2014, 02:16 AM
Namasthe

How many more buffaloes are slaughtered in India for it to be the world's top exporter of beef? I am vegetarian but I have heard that an animal that is slaughtered in sacrifice gets a better rebirth.

Hari Aum



A recent report by the Foreign Agricultural Service (FAS) of USDA states that for the second year in a row in 2013 India will be the world’s largest beef exporter has drawn attention to the meat trade industry. . . India’s beef export prominence has been recent with exports of only 672,000 MT in 2008, 607,000 MT in 2009 and 917,000 MT in 2010. Much of India’s beef is from buffalo and increased demand for milk has led to a larger beef supply. According to the U.S. Agricultural Attaché in India, domestic per capita consumption of buffalo beef is only about 4.4 pounds year and about 2.0 MMT total. Federal and state laws prohibit the slaughter of cattle for religious reasons, but slaughter is allowed for buffalo bulls and unproductive heifers. http://www.rachellaudan.com/2012/10/and-the-worlds-largest-exporter-of-beef-is.html

Believer
01 December 2014, 09:39 AM
Namaste,


.....I have heard that an animal that is slaughtered in sacrifice gets a better rebirth.

Propagation of such things does not bring any credit to ourselves or to the Sanatan Dharma.

First of all, I detest the term 'animal sacrifice', as the human is not making any sacrifice by killing an animal. It is the animal which is dying as a result of this ill conceived and ill advised cold blooded murder. So, I fail to understand how is the human making a sacrifice when the animal is the one losing its life.

Secondly, if the animal gets a better rebirth for getting slaughtered during a yajna, then why does the human not try the same? He could offer his life for the yajna and be reborn as a person with higher consciousness.

The so called 'animal sacrifice' has only one purpose, which is that the people performing that yajna feel like enjoying a meat dish. After all, the dead animal is not thrown away or fed to the wolves/lions. It is used as the yajna prasad by the people who make this supposed 'sacrifice'. If the humans themselves offered their lives for the sake of yajna, maybe it would be a sacrifice, but taking an animal's life for the sake of yajna is no sacrifice; it is cold blooded murder of an innocent animal to satiate one's desire to have a non-veg meal. Let us keep our thinking caps on!

Pranam.

Anirudh
01 December 2014, 10:28 AM
Namaste Believer ji

I agree. It is a cold blooded murder.

Can you answer my question ? How and Why this practice is allowed in S D?


Namaste,



Propagation of such things does not bring any credit to ourselves or to the Sanatan Dharma.

First of all, I detest the term 'animal sacrifice', as the human is not making any sacrifice by killing an animal. It is the animal which is dying as a result of this ill conceived and ill advised cold blooded murder. So, I fail to understand how is the human making a sacrifice when the animal is the one losing its life.

Secondly, if the animal gets a better rebirth for getting slaughtered during a yajna, then why does the human not try the same? He could offer his life for the yajna and be reborn as a person with higher consciousness.

The so called 'animal sacrifice' has only one purpose, which is that the people performing that yajna feel like enjoying a meat dish. After all, the dead animal is not thrown away or fed to the wolves/lions. It is used as the yajna prasad by the people who make this supposed 'sacrifice'. If the humans themselves offered their lives for the sake of yajna, maybe it would be a sacrifice, but taking an animal's life for the sake of yajna is no sacrifice; it is cold blooded murder of an innocent animal to satiate one's desire to have a non-veg meal. Let us keep our thinking caps on!

Pranam.

anucarh
02 December 2014, 05:17 AM
Namaste,

I know that there is a range of interpretations of how the scriptures view this issue. The Ārya Samāj, a society following the teaching of Svāmī Dayānand, says that the ritual killing of animals is not actually permitted by the Vedas, that these have been mistranslated to permit it, that it has never been permissible. Most Hindu scholars do not seem to agree. Many Vaiṣṇavas and others have argued that the ritual killing of animals is no longer permitted and not consistent with the path to liberation. Some Hindus argue that the practice must continue.

This is how I understand the issue in brief, based on my studies, but I freely admit that I am biased: The Mahābhārata tells us that in the satya yuga, the Golden Age, no one ever ritually killed animals. This is significant. In this age it is said that only good deeds occurred. Ritual animal killing is said to have been legally permissible in past ages (although most yajñas or offerings did not involve animals at all, instead involving grains, various kinds of wood, herbs, spices, fruits, etc.), but the Bhāgavata Purāṇa teaches that it was only to place limits on flesh eating among those who crave it and seek worldly benefits, not to encourage it, even then one could still receive terrible karmic results. Similarly, sages in the Matsya Purāṇa recommend offerings of fruits and vegetables instead of animals, explaining that any temporary benefits from ritual animal killing are outweighed by disastrous karmic results. The Skandha Purāṇa teaches that true bhaktas or devotees do not offer animals as sacrifices. The major Vaiṣṇava (Viṣṇu devotee) traditions of Vedānta all discourage the practice. For example, Śrī Madhvācārya only permitted the sacrifice of animal-shaped cakes, never the killing of real animals. Śrī Bhīṣma taught that merely giving up the eating of flesh is greater in merit than the performance of all sacrifices and that even if one feels one must sacrifice, one can perform sacrifices without harming animals, although the ritual killing of animals was technically permissible. He also said that ahiṁsā (nonviolence) is the highest duty. Similarly, he praised compassion for all beings, saying, "There is nothing, O delighter of the Kurus, that is equal in point of merit, either here or hereafter, to the practice of compassion to all living creatures." The great sage Tiruvaḷḷuvar, in his chapter against killing, wrote: "By sacrifice of life, some gain great wealth and welfare, but great men scorn such odious gains." In the same chapter he says that the greatest virtues are to share one's food and "to protect all living creatures." In the Bhagavad Gītā, when Lord Kṛṣṇa lists specific items that he accepts as offerings, if they're given with love, it is interesting that he mentions only "a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or water." I think that his choice of words is deliberate. I think that God prefers the kinder offerings. The highest ideal has always been nonviolence, especially when it is non-harming that does not conflict with justice or the protection of innocent life.


praṇām

Ram11
02 December 2014, 06:29 AM
Namaste,
The so called 'animal sacrifice' has only one purpose, which is that the people performing that yajna feel like enjoying a meat dish. After all, the dead animal is not thrown away or fed to the wolves/lions. It is used as the yajna prasad by the people who make this supposed 'sacrifice'.
Pranam.

Namaste Ji,

What you have said is not really true.No animal was sacrificed in the Yajnas for food.The texts dealing with the remainants of the Vedic Yajnas say that no more than a pea or grain size can be consumed from the leftovers of the Yajna.Why would anyone even perform a Yajna to eat a pea sized portion of meat,forget eating it it wouldn't even be sufficient to pass on for everyone to sniff it.Sri Kanchi Paramacharyaji said that that even that few miniscule grams of the meat was not eaten by adding malasa spices or by preparing Biryani with it,it was consumed as it is.So the whole idea that the Yajna bali pashu is consumed as food is a popular myth floating around.


If the humans themselves offered their lives for the sake of yajna, maybe it would be a sacrifice,

Secondly, if the animal gets a better rebirth for getting slaughtered during a yajna, then why does the human not try the same? He could offer his life for the yajna and be reborn as a person with higher consciousness.


I do not know if you know this but the exact same arguments you put forth were used by the Charvakas/Lokayatas(Materialists/Hedonists) and they were perfectly refuted by Sri Vidyaranya Mahaswami in Sarva Darshana Samgraha or Sri Madhvacaryaji in his works.

I am really sorry if I sound harsh but please understand that the so-called animal sacrifice has been dealt differently in the scriptures.

Anyways,Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah.

Believer
02 December 2014, 09:25 AM
Namaste,


What you have said is not really true.No animal was sacrificed in the Yajnas for food.The texts dealing with the remainants of the Vedic Yajnas say that no more than a pea or grain size can be consumed from the leftovers of the Yajna.
I wish you would leave your books behind and look at what happens in reality. As Viraja has testified, if the villagers feel like having a non-veg meal, they "sacrifice" a goat for yajna and then enjoy the "prasad". This pea sized limit might be a scriptural thing which is not followed anywhere. They may offer a morsel of "halwa" or a 'ladoo' to the sacrificial yajna fire, but then the 'prasad' is a fist-full lump of 'halwa' or a whole 'ladoo'. Nobody observes this 'peas sized' prasad distribution, at least not among the 'kaataans' of the north. :)


[SIZE=3]I do not know if you know this but the exact same arguments you put forth were used by the Charvakas/Lokayatas(Materialists/Hedonists) and they were perfectly refuted by Sri Vidyaranya Mahaswami in Sarva Darshana Samgraha or Sri Madhvacaryaji in his works.
But you don't give any grounds on which this basic concept was refuted. And are you saying that Sri Vidyaranya Mahaswami and Sri Madhvacaryaji propagated animal killing as part of yajna? And, are you labeling me a materialist/hedonists? :) Not that it matters, as I have been called worse things in this forum. I would say it again, if you want to sacrifice a living thing in the yajna sacrificial fire, go ahead and jump into it; don't kill the poor goat/lamb. Sacrifice your life, not that of a poor animal. After all you are the one who wants to advance spiritually, not the goat.

Pranam.

Ram11
02 December 2014, 12:14 PM
Namaste,


I wish you would leave your books behind and look at what happens in reality. As Viraja has testified, if the villagers feel like having a non-veg meal, they "sacrifice" a goat for yajna and then enjoy the "prasad". This pea sized limit might be a scriptural thing which is not followed anywhere. They may offer a morsel of "halwa" or a 'ladoo' to the sacrificial yajna fire, but then the 'prasad' is a fist-full lump of 'halwa' or a whole 'ladoo'. Nobody observes this 'peas sized' prasad distribution, at least not among the 'kaataans' of the north. :)


But you don't give any grounds on which this basic concept was refuted. And are you saying that Sri Vidyaranya Mahaswami and Sri Madhvacaryaji propagated animal killing as part of yajna? And, are you labeling me a materialist/hedonists? :) Not that it matters, as I have been called worse things in this forum. I would say it again, if you want to sacrifice a living thing in the yajna sacrificial fire, go ahead and jump into it; don't kill the poor goat/lamb. Sacrifice your life, not that of a poor animal. After all you are the one who wants to advance spiritually, not the goat.

Pranam.

Namaste Ji,

The question asked was 'How is this allowed in Sanatana Dharma?'.My answer was based on that question.Animal sacrifice was allowed only in the context of Vedic Yajnas.The remains of that animal was not cooked and eaten.
The pea sized rule is meant for those who have faith in that scriptures.Just because some people don't care about that rule doesn't mean the scriptures are no longer valid.It means that some individuals are not able to lead a life based on that high scriptural standards.And,that is okay because only few wish to meet the standards whereas others don't give a damn.Emphasis on Vedic Yajna.

Villagers doing something is not Sanatana Dharma,it is their own free will,their own ideas,their own beliefs and has nothing to do with Sanatana Dharma or its scriptures.No villager can provide a single quote from the texts that supports what they do.It is simply their own local belief.It is not right to accuse Sanatana Dharma of permitting animal sacrifice .Thus,anything apart from the Vedic Yajna context is not related to my answer.My reply is based on what the Sanatana Dharma's scriptural tradition says.

2.The second answer I gave was not in relation to the issue of animal sacrifice.No acharya supported animal sacrifice.By the time Sri Vidyaranya and Sri Madhvacharya arrived in this world animal sacrifice was already abhorred by orthodox scholars based on the scriptures.Vedic animal sacrifice is no longer permitted in the present Yuga.


It was about why a person doesn't sacrifice another human being or himself in a Vedic Agni.Killing other people analogy(I can't remember the exact questions but the Charvakas asked something like, a Vaidika should slay his own parents in the Yajna) was refuted by the Acaryas.Suicide is not permitted by the Vedas.So jumping into something is also not an answer.The same questions were posed by the Charvakas and they were thrown out,with appropriate answers.One should try not to use the derogatory arguments of a rival,heretic avaidika school to degrade one's own Vedic system.I only pointed out that these analogies are not proper.I know that you are not a Charvaka,you are certainly not a hedonist.My apologies if you felt I accused you thus.

*There is no scriptural support for the idea that killing an animal causes spiritual advancement*

Summing up,some things happen in this world such as animal sacrifices.Is it supported by the scriptures?ABSOLUTELY NO!
Then why is it happening?Things happen.Some times these are linked with Hinduism.But why?Because the participants maybe Hindus.

P.S.I am a pure vegetarian.I've no interest to eat meat nor am I interested in sacrificing an animal to attain something.

Believer
02 December 2014, 12:29 PM
Namaste,

Thanks for the clarification.


Things happen.Some times these are linked with Hinduism.But why?Because the participants maybe Hindus.
+1

Pranam.

Anirudh
02 December 2014, 07:52 PM
Namaste Ram ji and Believer Ji

Interesting discussion but are we running away from the shameful truth?

There are Hindu temples in South India (Tamil Nadu and Karnataka ) with main deity being forms of Shiva and Parvathi.

People kill animals and cook all delicacies with in the temple offer the cooked food as well as blood to the deities. They also offer Beedi country liquor etc etc.

I have visited those temples when I was an aethist. I think this happens even in west Bengal and my Bengali friends (who call themselves as Brahmins and eat fish delicacies ) say it is common in west Bengal.

In northern India there is no limit for this barbarism as a sect thriving on rotten human remains are called as special Shiva Bhakthi.

We have many YouTube videos as proofs.

And there is a story of Vathapi and sage Agasthya. (Vaathapi Jeerno Bhava)

I am not against non vegetarian diet but it sucks only when Animals are killed as an offering to Hindu deities.

The question is whether Hinduism preaches animal or humans to be killed and offered as it is done in present day Hinduism by Taantriks and by commoner in few Hindu temples ?

Any thoughts?

Believer
02 December 2014, 08:43 PM
Namaste,


Interesting discussion but are we running away from the shameful truth?

There are Hindu temples in South India (Tamil Nadu and Karnataka ) with main deity being forms of Shiva and Parvathi.

People kill animals and cook all delicacies with in the temple offer the cooked food as well as blood to the deities. They also offer Beedi country liquor etc etc

I am not a scholar of scriptures. So, I can't quote anything to refute the charge that animal offering is associated with Hinduism. However, Ram11 has provided some narrative about this not being a Vedic tradition and that the practice is associated with Hinduism just because some Hindus choose to do it.

Regarding the revelation about meat, blood, beedi and country liquor being offered to the deities is new to me as I am not too familiar with the non-mainstream temples in TN and Karnataka that indulge in those practices. Last year I found a temple in the heart of Delhi where the devotees offered liquor as an offering which was all poured into a barrel and the prasad given out of this barrel. For some reason the thread on Aghori Sadhus was allowed to stand whereas my post about this mandir was deemed inappropriate for the forum and deleted by the moderators.

Perhaps some members familiar with various scriptures, specially with the Vedas may shed some light on this anomaly practiced by certain sects. But be rest assured that the mainstream Hindus do believe in ahiNsa and do not partake in such hideous, sub-human ceremonies.

Pranam.

PS In north India many Shiv bhaktas consider it appropriate to smoke and to offer to the Lord, ganja. This is even practiced in Varanasi per the information provided by Devotee. So, lot of people take liberties with the norm and do undesirable things in the name of certain Hindu deities.

R Gitananda
03 December 2014, 06:04 PM
Namaste

I said that I heard it, that's all. Specifically I heard this claimed about the horse sacrifice. Either the animal is helped or it isn't. However merely mentioning this isn't "propagation".

Hari Aum


Namaste,



Propagation of such things does not bring any credit to ourselves or to the Sanatan Dharma. ...

Anirudh
03 December 2014, 07:28 PM
Namaste Gitananda

The word of mouth helps the salesman

Believer
03 December 2014, 08:39 PM
Namaste,


I said that I heard it, that's all.
I am sorry if you felt that it was some kind of reprimand. Far from it, what I was trying to convey is that if you hear something outlandish, just let it go. There is no need to repeat it to an average Joe on the street who is looking to defame Hinduism anyway, or to people in this forum, who don't want to hear such narrative. Hearsay with no proof whatsoever is merely gossip. Does anyone here care about gossip about Hinduism? Probably not.

Pranam.

R Gitananda
03 December 2014, 08:40 PM
Namasthe Anirudh


Namaste Gitananda

The word of mouth helps the salesman

Who is selling what? I am vegetarian and I wish to remain so. However you started this thread and I am trying to have a serious discussion on this issue.


As per Brahma Vaivarta Purana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma_Vaivarta_Purana) (185.180),[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha#cite_note-vedabase.net-2) the Ashvamedha is one of five rites forbidden in the Kali Yuga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga), the present age. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha o.k. so it is not recommended anymore. However some on this thread seem to have given the impression that the idea of animal sacrifice has been simply cooked up (no pun intended) by people who want to feast on flesh. However animal sacrifices are described in the Vedas so it has been a part of Sanatana Dharma for as long as anyone can remember. Whether or not it should still be done is a relevant discussion to have I think.


... After this, the horse, a hornless he-goat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat), a wild ox (go-mrga, Bos gavaeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bos_gavaeus)) are bound to sacrificial stakes near the fire, and seventeen other animals are attached to the horse. A great number of animals, both tame and wild, are tied to other stakes, according to a commentator 609 in total (YV VSM 24 consists of an exact enumeration).
Then the horse is slaughtered (YV VSM 23.15, tr. Griffith)
Steed, from thy body, of thyself, sacrifice and accept thyself.Thy greatness can be gained by none but thee. The chief queen ritually calls on the king's fellow wives for pity. The queens walk around the dead horse reciting mantras. The chief queen then has to mimic copulation with the dead horse, while the other queens ritually utter obscenities.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha#cite_note-keith-3)
On the next morning, the priests raise the queen from the place where she has spent the night with the horse. With the Dadhikra verse (RV 4.39.6, YV VSM 23.32), a verse used as a purifier after obscene language.
The three queens with a hundred golden, silver and copper needles indicate the lines on the horse's body along which it will be dissected. The horse is dissected, and its flesh roasted. Various parts are offered to a host of deities and personified concepts with utterances of svaha "all-hail". ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha If you know for a fact that the above information is wrong - then please edit wikipedia and let the truth be known.

Hari Aum

R Gitananda
03 December 2014, 08:54 PM
Namasthe

No problem. Perhaps then I should have assumed that the original poster was just making a rhetorical point. I understand your concern about defaming Hinduism, however if that is our main concern (rather than having vigorous discussions) then perhaps some topics shouldn't be broached at all. For instance 'Hot Topics' is very dangerous in this regards.

Hari Aum



Namaste,


I am sorry if you felt that it was some kind of reprimand. Far from it, what I was trying to convey is that if you hear something outlandish, just let it go. There is no need to repeat it to an average Joe on the street who is looking to defame Hinduism anyway, or to people in this forum, who don't want to hear such narrative. Hearsay with no proof whatsoever is merely gossip. Does anyone here care about gossip about Hinduism? Probably not.

Pranam.

Anirudh
04 December 2014, 01:46 AM
Namaste

We have heard about Ashwamedha Yagna and other Yagna and have discussed in HDF. I dont remember the thread if you are interested you can find that out. I have mentioned it in the post #1.

It is unable to establish whether the actual animal was killed or an animal like figure made out of rice floor was offered as the part of Animal Sacrifice (murder)

I would expect you to do a thorough study before sharing your views and also suggest you to stop quoting from Wikipedia. Ask other learned members whether they would accept Wikipedia as a source of proof?

I wont trust Griffith translation for the obvious reasons then Wikipedia can not even can be considered as a source in argument. I wont deny it gives a basic level of understanding but not worthy in debate.

We are discussing the Animal Sacrifice (murder) from a different view point. If you think it as an empty talk then kindly invest your energy in a better thread.

Sudas Paijavana
04 December 2014, 10:50 AM
Namaste,



If this is acceptable then how are we different from Islam or Christianity which doesn't prohibit Animal Sacrifice.

I find this correlation disturbing.


How many more buffaloes are slaughtered in India for it to be the world's top exporter of beef?

QED.

Sudas Paijavana
04 December 2014, 11:10 AM
Greetings,


But be rest assured that the mainstream Hindus do believe in ahiNsa and do not partake in such hideous, sub-human ceremonies.

And you know what else these "mainstream Hindus" do? They almost always stay mum when gomata-s (and goats) are butchered left and right, easily more than Nepal's 5,000, on Eid/Ramadan all across Bharat every year; but it seems they easily find the time to often condemn the practices of other Hindus. I find that quite fascinating.

Believer
04 December 2014, 07:32 PM
Namaste SP,

You are killing us all with your comments man. We don't have any answers to your observations. :)

Pranam.

Anirudh
04 December 2014, 09:13 PM
Namaste Sudas ji
Who are these mainstream Hindus local Indians living in India? Your statements are very harsh on the locals...

Tell me what could be done when you are fighting for survival. It is easy point fingers at.

Believer ji will be upset if I talk about results of invasions and pseudo secularism etc etc.

At 40+ even with two master degree I have to fight regional racism, local thugs, terrorism, illiteracy among peers and necessary EVILS and last but not the least corruption. And I am not an exception.

Religion, Ethics, Society Consciousness takes a back SEAT when you constantly worry whether your family will reach back home safely or your manager would take you for a ride BECAUSE you don't belong to his community or your kid would be facing some evil element's advances at School, Bus, etc etc.

Not to mention about the politicians and rich vendors.

In the last 30 days alone price of (essential commodities ) wheat / rice has gone by 50 paise to 1 rupee. ie Up by Rs 15 to 30 for a 30 KG bag. Onions and Tomato prices fluctuates like equations between daughter in law and mother in law in tell serial .

To provide the basic security which the government has failed the commoner has to go that extra mile and while doing so will the commoner worry about cow being slaughtered or about some pervert trying to harm your loved ones.

We (including me) speak lot about philosophy Saadhana god bliss etc etc here at HDF. will those discussion get the money to buy the basic security here
and now?

None of us one have the answers to the problem faced so how will the commoner develop faith and be committed to his faith?

I assume you are an Indian living in a developed country. May I ask you what have you done to the suffering people back home? Dont ask me what can be done?

Locals are fighting a multi dimensional battle and they are doing fairly well. Till Modi's swearing in India was (morally) under slavery.

Awareness has just now started so it s too early to critize.

PS: Hopefully didn't contradicted to many of my past statements.



Greetings,



And you know what else these "mainstream Hindus" do? They almost always stay mum when gomata-s (and goats) are butchered left and right, easily more than Nepal's 5,000, on Eid/Ramadan all across Bharat every year; but it seems they easily find the time to often condemn the practices of other Hindus. I find that quite fascinating.

Jaskaran Singh
04 December 2014, 09:27 PM
Quite ironic that the land in which Buddha was born in is the region in which this "Shri" Panchavarshiya Gadhimai Mela just took place, as he was against pashubali. Then again, this is also the land of PNS, who was proud of chopping to pieces the citizens of Kantipur, which he brags about in his Dibyopadesh, and who wanted to exile all of the Kayasthas to Bhot (tibet). :rolleyes: Anyway, this has nothing to do with the actual propitiation of the Devi Gadhimai, unlike at the Kamakhya Mandir in Axom. The sacrifice is done some 4 miles away from the mandir and it's not even an ancient practice. It was created by some raja named Bhagawan Chaudhary (in the 1800s, I don't remember the exact year, probably around 1889, since this is the twenty fifth or twenty sixth one, and it is done every five years) who was arrested and after getting let out, started a mass sacrifice to his ishta devata (Gadhimai) and that's how the practice started. The Nepali government doesn't do anything about because before the Communist takeover, corrupt Girija Koirala wanted the Bhojpuri, Bihari, and Madheshi vote, as 70% of the visitors are from India and 28% are from the Tarain region of Nepal. There's also economic reasons. The devotees bring their own calves, so it's at no cost to the government, and the government uses the skins to make leather, while the meat is given out as prasad. Furthermore, ever since the Maovadi government came in, they're certainly not going to ban it, since most communists love meat (look at the comments on the twitter profiles of Kavita Krishnan and also "Freedomzfighter" and their views on meat for example).

In regard to Gitananda and SP's comments, the fact that more animals are killed during Eid and Thanksgiving doesn't really mean much. Westerners and Muslims view most animals as food, not living creatures, we can't change that (we can protest, but that's about it). However in kaliyugam, Hindus are supposed to exercise compassion (e.g. NOT placing taste and money over the life of another creature); failure to do so, leads to decline in dharma (hence the phrase ahiMsAparamodharmaH). I realise that you don't support the sacrifice, but pointing to other hopeless situations is rather pointless.

shian
05 December 2014, 12:43 AM
Hindu is term name of organization,
so there is include many different tradition.
Even the Ramayana and all sastra tell us how the devotee do the devotion to defeat Triloka and make all human and devas as his slave.

Anirudh
05 December 2014, 07:15 AM
Hi

Haven't understood your post, can you explain in detail


Hindu is term name of organization,
so there is include many different tradition.
Even the Ramayana and all sastra tell us how the devotee do the devotion to defeat Triloka and make all human and devas as his slave.

Sudas Paijavana
05 December 2014, 08:50 AM
At 40+ even with two master degree I have to fight regional racism, local thugs, terrorism, illiteracy among peers and necessary EVILS and last but not the least corruption. And I am not an exception.

Religion, Ethics, Society Consciousness takes a back SEAT when you constantly worry whether your family will reach back home safely or your manager would take you for a ride BECAUSE you don't belong to his community or your kid would be facing some evil element's advances at School, Bus, etc etc.

Namaste, Anirudh:

I hope you can forgive my digression here, but the above has gotten me severely discouraged. I hope you know that you have my sympathies, dear fellow Bharatiya. If you don't mind answering, may you be kind as to explain or detail where it is that you currently reside (as in, which state)? And which region or state you originally (or ethno-linguistically) hail from?

Anirudh, the inter-regional rivalries, racism, and ethnocentrism that so many Bharatiya-s engage in is horrid and despicable. We are children of Maa Bharati's soil, and to read about such unfortunate situations can be quite devastating. As idealistic as this sounds, I have always presumed that Bharatiya unity would be a stable force, bringing together peoples of different backgrounds based solely on the principle that we are Bharatiya and therefore we are comrades by default. But its implementation is rather difficult since region-centric factionalism is a cumbersome blockade.

Once again, I hope you pardon this digression and I hope you know that I offer my sympathies in regards to the horrors of Bharatiya regionalism/factionalism that you and your family are subjugated to on a daily basis. Always know that regardless of your differing thoughts on matters of Dharma with me, you have camaraderie based solely on the principle that you are a Bharatiya. Jai Shri Ram!, fellow Anirudh.

ps - The topic of this thread has been discussed in detail before. For example, please click here (http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4860); and if you have the time please carefully read post #3 (http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=37462&postcount=3) by HDF member, Kshama; and also please read post #4 (http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=37472&postcount=4) by HDF moderator, Eastern Mind. I believe those two posts convey sentiments that I hold in a better fashion than I will ever be able to. Namaste.

Anirudh
05 December 2014, 09:47 AM
Namaste Sudas ji

I was writing generic challenges faced by an average Indian. Nothing personal.

Thank you for your kind words...

Believer
05 December 2014, 10:15 AM
Namaste,


We (including me) speak lot about philosophy Saadhana god bliss etc etc here at HDF. will those discussion get the money to buy the basic security here and now?

None of us one have the answers to the problem faced so how will the commoner develop faith and be committed to his faith?
Thanks for bringing up the root causes of why things go on the way they do in India. When people are divided and everyone is worried about providing the next meal or the safety and security of one's family, everything else takes a back seat. The regional politicians whip up the local populations into a frenzy for their own survival and actively encourage the divisions among people of different regions. So we stay divided instead of thinking of ourselves as Bhartiyas. That leads the politicians at the national level to pander to the minorities to stay in power. The Hindu King Mody could do a lot more if his support base became wider than it is. To discourage India from being a beef exporter, he would have to take on the minorities and that would be a political suicide. Most Indians settled overseas and the Westerners have very little knowledge of the current ground reality. They simply don't understand why politicians there tread lightly on certain issues and why they have to compromise their principles to stay in power and be able to push at least part of their agenda. The Hindu population is not a monolith supporting only the Hindu nationalist political party.

Indian media has always worked against the Hindu causes. Only a couple of days back one of King Mody's ministers said something to the effect that her party consisted of Ram-zadas (sons of Ram) whereas the last party in power consisted of Haram-zadas (bastards). The media interpreted that as an attack on the minorities, roundly chewed her out for her speech and demanded that she be fired. King Mody refused to placate them. This is something new and bold. But the politicians in general have to be careful to stay within boundaries and not offend the minorities lest they lose their support. Hindus of Chennai or Kolkata or Trivendram or Punjab have little use for King Mody and to offset that he has to appease the minorities to stay in power. And that means allowing beef exports.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-30340996

Pranam.

-

ArjunAchary4
04 March 2015, 08:25 PM
Some Shaktas and Shaivas do have faith in animal sacrifices and eat meat, it is an instance of what we could call "folk Hinduism". It seems to be a tradition native to India (as opposed to being imported from a foreign culture) but outside the framework of the faith of Vedas, Upanishads, etc.

It brings up the question of where to draw the line between who is a Hindu and who is not- does one have to be free of any folk Hindu practices to be Hindu or is it sufficient that one worships the Hindu gods? I for one, as someone who worships as a form of Shakti as my Ishta Devata, and someone who eats meat (of course, I abstain from beef) would include the Gadhimai worshipers as Hindus.

markandeya 108 dasa
28 July 2015, 05:15 PM
Namaste

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/07/28/gadhimai-festival-animal-sacrifice-banned_n_7886638.html

Believer
20 November 2015, 10:34 AM
Namaste,

Many, many Hindus just don't care about this issue, and if the politicians try to do something about it then they are voted out of office by a combination of non-caring Hindus and Muslims.......

'Nitish Kumar has been sworn in as the chief minister of the northern state of Bihar after defeating Prime Minister Narendra Modi's BJP in a bitterly contested election.

The grand alliance of regional parties took 178 seats of the 243 that were contested. The BJP only managed to win 58. Mr Modi and BJP president Amit Shah had raised the sensitive issue of cow slaughter and consumption of beef during the campaign - analysts say these were among the factors that alienated a large number of voters.'

Pranam.

ajay
11 May 2016, 05:08 AM
Namaste HDF

What kind of Hinduism followed in Nepal. I have seen animal sacrifice in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Most likely this practice is followed all over India.

How can GOD be pleased with Animal slaughter?


In the past we had discussed about Ashwamedha Yagna and Humam Sacrifices.

If this is acceptable then how are we different from Islam or Christianity which doesn't prohibit Animal Sacrifice.

Thank you for putting this post over here. Animal sacrifices have come down due to a large extent due to the efforts of Buddha, Mahavira and Mahatma Gandhi in modern times.

Animal sacrifice is not at all compatible with the teachings of ahimsa (non-violence) and karuna (compassion ) in Hinduism. The remnants of animal sacrifice traditions are still there in India and Nepal in tribal areas and these should be weeded out by Hindu saints , leaders and scholars through spreading of awareness among Hindu masses in this regard.

Believer
12 May 2016, 12:21 AM
Namaste,


Animal sacrifices have come down due to a large extent due to the efforts of Buddha, Mahavira and Mahatma Gandhi in modern times.
Is this a personal opinion or do you have any proof of this claim?


The remnants of animal sacrifice traditions are still there in ...... Nepal in tribal areas
This happens in Kathmandu, not in tribal areas. Please fact check your statements.

Pranam.

ajay
20 May 2016, 05:28 AM
Namaste,


Is this a personal opinion or do you have any proof of this claim?



Namaste Believer, :)

Yes, I have read in the works of Vivekananda where he states that animal sacrifices came down in India largely due to the Buddha's efforts. Buddha's criticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha_in_Hinduism)of animal sacrifices has been noted in classical Hinduism as well, in the puranas.

Mahavira was a contemporary of Buddha, and particularly noted for his teaching of non-violence and vegetarianism. Jain ascetics swept the ground ahead of them while walking in order to avoid killing insects and minute life forms. Obviously his teachings too probably created a culture of non-violence , along with Buddha, which reduced animal sacrifices in India at that point of time.

Pranam.

divyanka2111
16 July 2016, 07:32 PM
get one thing straight - whether or not the animal is 'consumed' after, the 'animal sacrifice' is not Hindu, period.

Anirudh
23 July 2016, 08:13 AM
get one thing straight - whether or not the animal is 'consumed' after, the 'animal sacrifice' is not Hindu, period.


Namaste

One can't say with 100% scriptural support whether animal sacrifice was in practice or not before or during M.B era. We have many versions of our scriptures in practice. Which one to discard? Its not clear whether a horse was sacrificed in Ashwamedha yagna or it was symbolic. So its very difficult to tell whether animal sacrifice is a part of Hindu or not.

How are we GOING TO change the mindset of Hindu masses who relish on non vegetarian diet? In many Hindu societies its a matter of pride to make animal sacrifice after a major achievement or before beginning something dear to them. Are we going to castigate them or term them as non Hindus? To be honest there wont be many Hindus left in India if we do that.

Thanks to internal fights, invasions, slavery mindset that has invaded our DNA and the nobler than noblest pseudo secularism, Hinduism in India is battling for life. Even PM Modi is losing his charm because he is unable manage self indulging elements in the coterie. Vijay Maalya and Lalit Modi are eye sore examples of his inability. Since 1947 we have elected only anti Hindu Governments. (PM Vajpayee didn't had the free hand due coalition politics.) Let's say if we progress at the current rate with non anti Hindu based governments for another 50 years, we surely will WITNESS the rebirth of true Hinduism in India. Many evidences will crop up supporting your claim from our land just like the hidden treasures of Padmanabha Temple in Kerala.

In the present scenario can the ASI dig the graves of a old Shiva Temple on the banks of Yamuna when we don't even have the back bone to report a theft as a theft and not term it as a gift..... :) ;) :(