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atanu
29 April 2007, 12:34 PM
Today some one talked about a walk by the River Seine.

Yes, I remember the River Seine and the book stalls by its side. Young lovers throng the place. It has a nice ambience. Memories of 20 years back made me feel nostalgic. How the time has flown and suddenly I am no more young.

Twenty two years back, 1985-86 were magical. Jolly, light, confident. There was spring in the steps and smile in the face that passing young girls always returned. But by 1990, the nature of the time changed -- during 1988 to 1990 serious chronic health problems surfaced. A serious time came in and I began to work hard with a lot of ego. Again the year 1997 was jolly, light, and confident. Jupiter’s passage through my Sun Sign does this. Why? Why I am not jolly all the time? As Jupiter goes out, the weight of expanded burdens begin to take their toll.

But I could crack the code -- if only God helped a bit. Recently one day, I expanded. I was no more a body but the subtle pure awareness "I AM". You know, just the awareness? In that awareness, I saw the Sun within. Those two days were confident days, full of love. No worries.

Rishis reside in this state. Jupiter brings in this state by making it appear that all things happen automatically and as per one's choice also. Jupiter expands the consciousness. But one can benefit from it permanently if one does not go back to the ego self. If one can give up the false notion of I being localized and gross and one can just be devoid of preferences, one can eternally be in the infinite Brahmic state. Sounds so simple?

May Guru bring in jnana, which will endow permanent bliss.

Om Namah Shivaya

saidevo
29 April 2007, 09:18 PM
Namaste Atanu.

This is the first post I read in the morning. Gave me a lot of inspiration and set the slant for the day. A wonderful, rather blissful experience you must have had! Can you describe a bit more of your actual consciousness in that state of turiac bliss? The world around you then, how you related to it, anything you saw, etc., for example. If Jigar tried a picture of it, I guess he would only end up with the canvas!

atanu
30 April 2007, 08:50 AM
Namaste Atanu.

This is the first post I read in the morning. Gave me a lot of inspiration and set the slant for the day. A wonderful, rather blissful experience you must have had! Can you describe a bit more of your actual consciousness in that state of turiac bliss? The world around you then, how you related to it, anything you saw, etc., for example. If Jigar tried a picture of it, I guess he would only end up with the canvas!


Namaskar Saidevoji,

Thanks for your kind words. But what I had was not a Turiya concsiousness -- at least I think so. Ramana has explained a state where one remains in the 'I current', established during meditation, even after the meditation is over. For a brief time I saw myself, including my body, as a simple modification of awareness: I am. The boundaries become awareness itself --- the awareness of different kinds of modification.

Difficult to explain really. For two days the airy lightness remained. Then the ego met with a crisis and the glory faded. But the experience still acts as a motivation. For me, it helps to keep in mind the infinite boundless deep sleep state when pausing at the end of AUM.


Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
30 April 2007, 12:24 PM
Hugs Atanu! I have been to all the places you have talked about despondency, bliss, struggling places, health issues, grieving changes....We seem to move through many places, some comfortable, some not. Sometimes just when things seem too much, magic starts to happen again or we will "break through" and see the truth. If only we could live in "reality" all the time.

But, for those times when we cannot seem to rise above ourselves or we seem to be too tired, mentally or physically, from dealing with one of life's struggles.....here is a hug for you. : ) (((((((((((Atanu))))))))))))))


I feel the force of the hug and feel the love; thank you Gypsi. Mother herself has sent you and Zn to this forum to spread the message that she cares. Most of us have turned inwards to the spirit, not out of sweet will but because Rudra destroys the heroes (egos) out of compassion. Very few are those who love spirit because of pure wisdom. They are blessed indeed.

It is true that I have passed through such pain that I had often wished a swift painless death. Such a moment happened to be during a meditation stretch, when I wished that Lord should take me away. And surprise. Infinitely swifter than the swiftness of the eyelid closing or infinitely swifter than the swiftness of a falcon taking its prey, something indescribable grabbed the mind and pulled it in saying “I am here”, thus changing the thought in a trice. Where could Lord take me away? He is my real ME.

Cannot describe it fully but the whole thing happened so subtly yet with such great force that I became a believer. I knew how Shiva guides Indra to victory. Atma is a constant friend. Howsoever we may neglect Him, Shiva cares.

My hug for you Gypsi and all readers, who are not different from me. The Hug is for Shiva.

Om Namah Shivaya

Znanna
30 April 2007, 07:40 PM
Howsoever we may neglect Him, Shiva cares.

How does Shiva know HimSelves as caring? :D


I visited Paris some 30 odd years ago, and walked along the Seine. I had a hat with a long ostrich plume stuck in the brim; every time I turned my head I hit an unsuspecting Parisian in the face with it. Ooopsie.

I guess I always was a bad girl, hehe.



Namaste,
ZN

yajvan
30 April 2007, 08:11 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Today some one talked about a walk by the River Seine.

Twenty two years back, 1985-86 were magical. Jolly, light, confident. There was spring in the steps and smile in the face that passing young girls always returned. But by 1990, the nature of the time changed -- during 1988 to 1990 serious chronic health problems surfaced. A serious time came in and I began to work hard with a lot of ego. Again the year 1997 was jolly, light, and confident. Jupiter’s passage through my Sun Sign does this. Why? Why I am not jolly all the time? As Jupiter goes out, the weight of expanded burdens begin to take their toll.

But I could crack the code -- if only God helped a bit. Recently one day, I expanded. I was no more a body but the subtle pure awareness "I AM". You know, just the awareness? In that awareness, I saw the Sun within. Those two days were confident days, full of love. No worries.

Rishis reside in this state. Jupiter brings in this state by making it appear that all things happen automatically and as per one's choice also. Jupiter expands the consciousness. But one can benefit from it permanently if one does not go back to the ego self. If one can give up the false notion of I being localized and gross and one can just be devoid of preferences, one can eternally be in the infinite Brahmic state. Sounds so simple? May Guru bring in jnana, which will endow permanent bliss.
Om Namah Shivaya


Namaste Anatu-ji
a very inspiring and humble post... that of a sadhu and one that will relish in Moksha. This Brihaspiti as a graha Jupiter, is most satvic and owns akasha. The expanstion of happiness was your experience. Jupiter owns akasha ( my most favorite tattva) and expansion is natual. Being 'localized' is not comfortable for akasha, and the fullness of all (Bhuma) Is a most natual state.
As you mention, Jupiter moving over your Sun ( Surya) , you began to have this experience. We would need to look at the dasa period you enjoyed at the time ( we would look to Drig dasa and Narayana dasa), the rasi and bhava's owned by Surya and Guru, and a few other points, but from afar, Jupiter transited the natual atma karaka, Sun... and brought the expansion of Atman to your awareness - for the taste, for the direction, to assist you.

Watch as jupiter transits or is in trine to the Moksha-karaka, Ketu. More to follow as one keeps possibilities open.

pranams,

sm78
01 May 2007, 01:46 AM
Watch as jupiter transits or is in trine to the Moksha-karaka, Ketu. More to follow as one keeps possibilities open.

pranams,

Namaste Yajvan Ji,

Can you, when you have time and willingness, please throw some light on the role and functioning of the twins Rahu and Ketu ? Why Ketu is called Moksha Karaka, given that it has rather mean tendencies in character ? I am being told that these 2 mleccha grahas have significant influence on me, I don't understand astrology to decipher my chart and understand how these 2 are likely to have influence on me.

Your discourse may benefit many and ofcourse myself.

atanu
01 May 2007, 03:28 AM
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How does Shiva know HimSelves as caring? :D


I visited Paris some 30 odd years ago, and walked along the Seine. I had a hat with a long ostrich plume stuck in the brim; every time I turned my head I hit an unsuspecting Parisian in the face with it. Ooopsie.

I guess I always was a bad girl, hehe.



Namaste,
ZN

Namaste,

The one who cares is Shiva -- is it OK now? How can we separate the being and its power?

Did you turn your head intentionally? hehe?


Regards

Znanna
01 May 2007, 04:35 AM
Namaste,

The one who cares is Shiva -- is it OK now? How can we separate the being and its power?

Did you turn your head intentionally? hehe?


Regards


Nah, it happened accidentally, over and again :P


ZN

atanu
01 May 2007, 09:02 AM
Nah, it happened accidentally, over and again :P


ZN

Then indeed you were one --- i.e. a bad girrrrrrllllllll.

Regards

yajvan
01 May 2007, 12:03 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan Ji,

Can you, when you have time and willingness, please throw some light on the role and functioning of the twins Rahu and Ketu ? Why Ketu is called Moksha Karaka, given that it has rather mean tendencies in character ? I am being told that these 2 mleccha grahas have significant influence on me, I don't understand astrology to decipher my chart and understand how these 2 are likely to have influence on me. Your discourse may benefit many and ofcourse myself.

Namaste sm78 -
Yes, this Rahu and ketu - the nodes of the moon, many write about.
Ketu is the co-owner of the natural 8th house ( a moksha house) Scorpio also called vrishchika, and co-lords are Mars and Ketu.

This ketu has no head and casts no graha dristi ( or planet aspect) to other graha's. He is considered the karaka of Moksha, due to this headless-desireless state. Rahu is all about the material part of life. RAhu is co-owner of Aquarius ( the natural house of gains), with Sani ( Saturn).

Many talk of the kala-sarpa yoga , or when all the graha's are hemmed in between Rahu-ketu. yet the direction of the hemming is of great import. If Rahu is leading the charge ( that is, is first and going in a counterclock-wise motion in the chart) , then he is swallowing up as they say all the other planets on its march around the zodiac. If Ketu is leading, there is kalamritya yoga formed and the 'bad' is annulled.

All planets have their positive and negitive traits When one looks to rahu and this material world one sees the following when too much rahu influences ( that is exalted Rahu, or Rahu dasa persiods)
Rahu
- insatibable worldly desires - combine this with too much Jupiter and one is 'overthrown from balance' with the
acquistion of possessions.
- dullness or inertia - combined with sani, slow moving to begin with and the issue intensifies
- ignorance

This Rahu gives one grief via lethargy, grossness , eating 'bad foods' e.g. drugs and overexposure to alchohol, insensitivity... as you can see, things of a tamasic nature. As my joytish teacher has said, when bad things happen instantaneously , Rahu is usually at the root. He says rahu is the influnce that brings us back to the loka.

Ketu
- brings asceticism and non-attachment. Too much, and one is aloof and not in touch with the world socically.
- this 'having no head' suggests not involved in the material world, and hence aligned to Moksha.

Sage Jaimini is quite specific on ketu's placements in ones chart that indicate a seeker of this Moksha. Perhaps a post on this will be of interest?

Both nodes, when conjuct with other planets give various qualities e.g. ketu+Mercury gives good analytical abilities. Ketu+moon though, gives high motivation for power and a tendency for ruthlessness.

Rahu in the 3rd gives courage, yet also arguments with brothers. Rahu+Mars in the 2nd, 10th or 11th leads one to riches, but of questionable means .

Now, what is of great import and value to a sadhu, is what qualities does rahu or ketu give as ones Atma-karaka , the 'king' of the graha's? This we can take a look at. Some of the most spiritual sadhu's had Rahu as the Atma-karaka (Srila Prabhupada). It is then in a postion as the 'king' to do no harm, yet the sadhu does have some dosha's ( blemishes) attached to this condition.

The above is a snippet - and we can go deeper if there is interest.

pranams

atanu
01 May 2007, 11:28 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste sm78 -
Yes, this Rahu and ketu - the nodes of the moon, many write about.
Ketu is the co-owner of the natural 8th house ( a moksha house) Scorpio also called vrishchika, and co-lords are Mars and Ketu.

------


Hari Om,

Namaste Yajvan JI and namaste SM

Ramana guru exhorts us to enquire "Find the one who is bound by destiny?"

I was told with pride by my parents that I was born in Simha Bhava. When I was 11 years old I found that I was a Pisces (western). The description said: Good for nothing. This was the beginning of a dark period, which lasted long. Then I found that even the moon was not in Simha, but in Virgo as per western astrolgers. As per Hindu astrolgy all my planets were in male houses and as per western astrology all planets were in female houses. Then I found that the ascedant was in Scorpio (western) and the text stated: True Grit. Hindu ascendant is Tula: Bad Bad Bad.

Then I was told I had Kala Sarpa yoga (hehe with Rahu leading and also in the 12th house). Oh what a horrible thing.

This knowledge is never complete and tosses the mind as if on a whirlwind. This seeking is bondage since its main concern is "What will happen to me?".


Dear friends. What will be will be. For one who worships Ishwara or one who abides in the Self, the changes of time are taken care of.

Ramana guru exhorts us to enquire "Find the one who is bound by destiny?"
It is the mind and the body thereof that are bound. But am I the mind?
Is the atma bound by time?


This is my view, which does not negate Yajvan ji's post at all. I add to what Yajvan Ji says, since I have traversed this path and I know a bit of astrology myself.

Human mind will not know the truth through astrology. The truth is that from which the truth seeking mind has arisen. It is sufficient to know that source of the mind and all else will be known.

Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
01 May 2007, 11:42 PM
The story takes a turn here

My wife took me to an astrologer and asked "When will the time be good?". The astrolger said "It is good now and it will worsen. Your husband has Kala Sarpa yoga and the life will mostly be darkness".

Later He phoned my wife, on an eclipse day, to instruct to send me to a Shiva temple and offer worship. I was an agnostic but I hated the rituals. I was forced to go to a temple on account of my own unknown fears. At the end of the puja, the priest said "Do shastanga pranam".

And I erupted within. Why should I prostrate before a stone? I did not obey and the priest returned a scornful look at me. And it ended there.

And then the troubles started.

Oh what a turn. The Kala Sarpa yoga made me a bhakta of Shiva.


Om Namah Shivaya

satay
01 May 2007, 11:48 PM
Namaste Atanu,
Thanks for sharing and giving us a glimpse of a very personal episode of your life.

Kala sarpa turns agnostics and atheists into bakthas...yes, indeed!

yajvan
02 May 2007, 02:18 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Hari Om,
Ramana guru exhorts us to enquire "Find the one who is bound by destiny?"

I was told with pride by my parents that I was born in Simha Bhava. When I was 11 years old I found that I was a Pisces (western). The description said: Good for nothing. This was the beginning of a dark period, which lasted long. Then I found that even the moon was not in Simha, but in Virgo as per western astrolgers. As per Hindu astrolgy all my planets were in male houses and as per western astrology all planets were in female houses. Then I found that the ascedant was in Scorpio (western) and the text stated: True Grit. Hindu ascendant is Tula: Bad Bad Bad.

Then I was told I had Kala Sarpa yoga (hehe with Rahu leading and also in the 12th house). Oh what a horrible thing.

This knowledge is never complete and tosses the mind as if on a whirlwind. This seeking is bondage since its main concern is "What will happen to me?".


Dear friends. What will be will be. For one who worships Ishwara or one who abides in the Self, the changes of time are taken care of.

Ramana guru exhorts us to enquire "Find the one who is bound by destiny?"
It is the mind and the body thereof that are bound. But am I the mind?
Is the atma bound by time?


This is my view, which does not negate Yajvan ji's post at all. I add to what Yajvan Ji says, since I have traversed this path and I know a bit of astrology myself.

Human mind will not know the truth through astrology. The truth is that from which the truth seeking mind has arisen. It is sufficient to know that source of the mind and all else will be known. Om Namah Shivaya

Namaste Atanu (et.al),
You speak wisely. The best one can do as a Jyotisha is point the native to the SELF. This is my orientation and will remain so. Be rid of the 3 gunas, says Krsna. What more should a Jyotisha do but to help one get there.
With your permission Atanu, let me add a few points to round out the conversation. First let me state I am a Jyotish sisya. I know nothing. If Jyotish knowledge was 100 meters long, I would know 1 millimeter of it. I pass on the things I have been fortunate to be taught by one that has grown up in the lineage of Jyotishi's for several ages, yet I have but scatched the surface of this great vedanga after studying daily for 12 years ( roughly 10,000 hours of study) - I know nothing, but blessed with the intellect to read, comprehend, form opinons and perhaps pass on an idea or two , to those that may have the same itch.

Let me take a stab at Atanu's differences in signs ( One of Pisces, moon in Simha ( Leo, owned by Surya), etc etc.

Western astrology and Vedic Astrology are not simular. That is, the west is based upon a tropical based view i.e. the sun starting over the tropics - Capricorn on one end and the tropic of Cancer on the other - the sun visits both extreames yearly, over and over again. The west's zodiac is based upoon this time table.

The Vedic based view is sideral (or fixed-star based), that is, when the earth , in realtionship to the fixed stars as a back drop returns to the same place, to begin a new year, and hence, cycle though the 12 signs, and complete one loop, 360 degrees in one year.

The only time these measures are in concert is once every 25,800 years -due to the procession of the equinoxes ( the earths wobble is the cause here). How can you 'see' this difference yourself? Just look up in the evening. The western astrologer will say Saturn is 22 degree Leo (for Jan 2007). Look to the Sideral map and you will see Saturn in constillation Cancer, not Leo. This is with each planet. There is an off-set, yet one can visibly see the differences vs. what is posted by the western astrologer.

Also note the sankranti of the sun into each rasi. That is, the sun's entrance into each sign. In a Jyotish-sideral view lets look at the sun entering Aries (mesha). This year it entered April 14th and will last to ~ May 15th. The date for the the western astrologer - Sun entered March 21st and will remain there till April 20th. Only 7 days of overlap between sideral and tropical - this is equal to approx. 25 degrees of difference , and changes as the years wear on. How can this be?

Giving more info that is needed, yet for the inquiring mind, this meeting point moves away degree by degree and takes 71.66667 years ( +/-) to move one degree - the math 25,800 years divided by 360 degrees or one trip around the zodiac = 71.6667 years per degree. This difference is called Ayanash.

Now, Jyotish is a Nirayan based system and the west's is Sayan system. What's this? Nir = without. and Sa = with or equal or even. But to what ? to ayana or this ayanash difference. Therefore Nir+ayan is without difference and Sa+ayan is with the difference.

You can perhaps apprecaite the differences and the angst Atanu may have experienced ( yet has risen above this).

Last, why then the two systems? My teacher tells me one is for terrestrial use - weather, continent conditions, quakes and shakes, etc. One sisya asked him , can Western astology be used like Vedic/Jyotish in terms of its applicibility, use, etc.? He said, it's like feeding dog food to a human, it is possible, and will nourish, yet it is not the best fit for that being. He meant no direspect. His instruction is to use the right tool for the right job.

I hope this helps a bit - and thank you for the opportunity to discuss this. In the final analysis, it is best to be established in the SELF. Even for the Jyotisha and his works. Then all are in concert with the laws of nature. To this is where I put my attention these days.

atanu
03 May 2007, 09:47 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~
------I hope this helps a bit - and thank you for the opportunity to discuss this. In the final analysis, it is best to be established in the SELF. Even for the Jyotisha and his works. Then all are in concert with the laws of nature. To this is where I put my attention these days.


Namaskar Yajvan Ji,

Yes, I agree that it is best to be established in the Self. Everything else is ego driven and ego is ultimately the Maya.

Regards

Om