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Viraja
22 December 2016, 09:49 AM
Namaste,

There is a sloka I came across, it is called 'Narasimha Prapatti' and in one sentence, it goes like:

"yatho yatho yaahi:" -

1. Is there a word called 'Yaahi:' in Sanskrit?

2. How should I pronounce the above word? Is it Yahi-hi (यहीही ) or Yaa-hi-hi (याहिहि ) or Yaahi (याहि)?

I need immediate clarification, I would be very glad to receive answer from someone learned here.

Thank you,

Viraja

yajvan
22 December 2016, 11:17 AM
hello

is there really a need for all capital letters in the title ?

thank you

Viraja
22 December 2016, 11:51 AM
Namaste Yajvan ji,

Sorry it did not occur to me it could be offensive.

Beg your pardon.

Thanks,

Viraja

Anirudh
22 December 2016, 12:22 PM
Namaste,

There is a sloka I came across, it is called 'Narasimha Prapatti' and in one sentence, it goes like:

"yatho yatho yaahi:" -

1. Is there a word called 'Yaahi:' in Sanskrit?

2. How should I pronounce the above word? Is it Yahi-hi (यहीही ) or Yaa-hi-hi (याहिहि ) or Yaahi (याहि)?

I need immediate clarification, I would be very glad to receive answer from someone learned here.

Thank you,

Viraja
Namaste Viraja

யதோயதோ யாஹி: ததோ நரசிம்ஹா,
Wherever I go, there is Narasimha

I got the lyrics from this page (http://murpriya.blogspot.in/2010/09/narasimha-prapatti.html) and got to know its meaning. I can answer you partially. I use following method to improve my Sanskrit vocabulary. Hope it is of help to you.

1. I have seen similar words ie words ending with : while reciting Sundara Kaandam, and it is pronounced as ha. But if it follows நெடில் or குறில் then it takes its sound along with it. For eg, listen to the 5th slokam in http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/sundara/sarga1/sundara_1_frame.htm, the word नीललोहितमाञ्जिष्ठपत्रवर्णैः will be pronounced as naiH. So my understanding is, it should be pronounced as hiH
2. यातायात means travel/trafic in Hindi, guess, this word has been borrowed from Sanskrit. या means to move or to go in Sanskrit. यत् means where / which depending on the usage.
3. When I combine both 1 and 2, it is same as the meaning given in the page.

(http://murpriya.blogspot.in/2010/09/narasimha-prapatti.html)Another slokam I remember is
यत्र यत्र रघुनाथकीर्तनं तत्र तत्र कृतमस्तकांजलिम् वाष्पवारिपरिपूर्णालोचनं मारुतिं नमत राक्षसान्तकम्
here यत्र means where and तत्र there, likewise, in the above slokam யதோ and ததோ are used.

I am just a beginner, so can't give you exact grammar behind but I my gut feeling is this is what the slokam means... :)

yajvan
22 December 2016, 02:10 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté & hello


Namaste Viraja

the word नीललोहितमाञ्जिष्ठपत्रवर्णैः will be pronounced as naiH. So my understanding is, it should be pronounced as hiH

The overall term is nīlalohitamāñjiṣṭhapatravarṇaiḥ ... note that र्णैः = rṇaiḥ or r + ṇ + ai + ḥ. The 'r' sound/letter is the carry-over from the term 'ravar' - it is appended to this र्णै: as the form that almost looks like an 'r' lying above the horizontal line. Why mention this? Just so there is an audit trail of sounds and what goes where.

For the general reader: How do I know that this 'r' is not at the end of the term shown? Well, that is how devanāgarī is written , in a compressed & efficient form when ever possible i.e. combining sound forms.

Note the last term which looks like a colon: in English. It is called visarga (ḥ) and tells the speaker to carry over the last sound of the word being pronounced. Let's say the last term is an 'a' like in namaḥ. This says continue that 'a' sound with the mouth in the same position used to pronounce 'a' yet aspirate the final sound. So it would be something like this: nama-ḥa . It is ~as if~ one was removing the last part of air from the mouth and it comes out as 'ha' but not like a word 'ha', but a remainder of 'a' with the mouth in the same position as 'a'; it is almost a puff 'aḥa'. not 'aḥaaaaaaaaaaaa'. see the difference?
Some when chanting turn this into a 'haaaa' yet by definition it is a puff, some call aspirated. It is the same with the term in question: ṇ+ai+ḥ . We keep the mouth is the same position for this final sound 'ai' follow though with the the breath that formed the 'ai' as 'ḥai'.

So, what does 'ai' sound like? Some like to say it is ~like~ ice. Note when you say 'ice' at the very beginning there is an 'a' sound to it. Try it. Some to like to say it sounds like 'aisle'; hence 'ai-ḥai'. We can see it is not ha! or he!.

Hope this helps.


इतिशिवं
iti śivaṁ

Viraja
22 December 2016, 03:33 PM
Anirudh ji,

Thank you! I now stand clarified upon reading your reply that it should be pronounced as 'Yaa-hi-hi' only. This also confirms with what Yajvan ji has written that it should take on the ending sound of the previous syllable.

Yajvan ji,

Also thank you very much.

Anirudh
22 December 2016, 10:12 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté & hello


The overall term is nīlalohitamāñjiṣṭhapatravarṇaiḥ ... note that र्णैः = rṇaiḥ or r + ṇ + ai + ḥ. The 'r' sound/letter is the carry-over from the term 'ravar' - it is appended to this र्णै: as the form that almost looks like an 'r' lying above the horizontal line. Why mention this? Just so there is an audit trail of sounds and what goes where.

For the general reader: How do I know that this 'r' is not at the end of the term shown? Well, that is how devanāgarī is written , in a compressed & efficient form when ever possible i.e. combining sound forms.

Note the last term which looks like a colon: in English. It is called visarga (ḥ) and tells the speaker to carry over the last sound of the word being pronounced. Let's say the last term is an 'a' like in namaḥ. This says continue that 'a' sound with the mouth in the same position used to pronounce 'a' yet aspirate the final sound. So it would be something like this: nama-ḥa . It is ~as if~ one was removing the last part of air from the mouth and it comes out as 'ha' but not like a word 'ha', but a remainder of 'a' with the mouth in the same position as 'a'; it is almost a puff 'aḥa'. not 'aḥaaaaaaaaaaaa'. see the difference?
Some when chanting turn this into a 'haaaa' yet by definition it is a puff, some call aspirated. It is the same with the term in question: ṇ+ai+ḥ . We keep the mouth is the same position for this final sound 'ai' follow though with the the breath that formed the 'ai' as 'ḥai'.

So, what does 'ai' sound like? Some like to say it is ~like~ ice. Note when you say 'ice' at the very beginning there is an 'a' sound to it. Try it. Some to like to say it sounds like 'aisle'; hence 'ai-ḥai'. We can see it is not ha! or he!.

Hope this helps.


इतिशिवं
iti śivaṁ

Namaste Yajvan,

Thanks for the clarification.

hence 'ai-ḥai'

I always had a doubt whether the correct pronunciation also includes a व्यंजन in end. ie 'haih'? The ha sound comes from the lower abdomen and trails back to the lower abdomen. I rely on this Shangu Chakra Gadha Padmam (https://www.youtube.com/user/vchak66) channel because of the melody and clarity in the voice.

Another doubt is what is the link between अः and ह
Should we treat अः as अ + ह् + अ? Since we have ह (ह् + अ) , what is the need of अः? I know there are many short forms in Devanagari but अः is included in स्वर (वर्ण) list.

Just a thought....

Anirudh
22 December 2016, 10:41 PM
Anirudh ji,

Thank you! I now stand clarified upon reading your reply that it should be pronounced as 'Yaa-hi-hi' only. This also confirms with what Yajvan ji has written that it should take on the ending sound of the previous syllable.

Yajvan ji,

Also thank you very much.


Namaste Viraja

I explored a bit more on हि. It used to stress the importance of the verb associated, (in this case 'to go') something like we use 'of course', 'certainly' to give importance to that action. So in the passage you mentioned, hi-hi used to tell us 'Wherever I go, there is Narsimha'. I don't know whether the word 'I' is implied or hidden somewhere in that line.

It is nice to know you are taking interest to get the correct pronunciation. Few tell it's OK to commit mistakes as everyone has their own learning curve and their native language influence. IMHO, we should get the correct meaning and pronunciation (at least as close as possible) before reciting any slokam.

Wish you a good luck to your mission.

One revered Sri Vaishnava (don't wish to name him) told me although learning the meaning and pronunciation before reciting is a tedious process, it is best way to recite any slokam.
We generally will loose interest considering time constraint. Even if we read few lines per day, it is better than reciting the whole page without knowing the meaning.

Another best option (found through my experience) is to listen to the slokam (if audio sources are available), then understand the meaning of words, then listen again. While listening our mind without knowledge pronounces what we listen. This way we will emotionally experience the meaning of the slokam and get the entire benefit.

Benefit is a thread by itself, and I am sure, you know the meaning of entirety in it.

devotee
22 December 2016, 11:07 PM
Namaste Viraja,



There is a sloka I came across, it is called 'Narasimha Prapatti' and in one sentence, it goes like:

"yatho yatho yaahi:" -

1. Is there a word called 'Yaahi:' in Sanskrit?

2. How should I pronounce the above word? Is it Yahi-hi (यहीही ) or Yaa-hi-hi (याहिहि ) or Yaahi (याहि)?


Are you referring to this "Yatho yatho yahi , tatho narasimha. Narasimha devaath paro na kaschit. Tasmaan narasimha sharanam prapadye" ?

Both Yatha and Yatah are valid words in Sanskrit. Yatha means "As/ the way anything is" and "Yatah" means "where". In my opinion, as per the context, it should be "Yato yato". Yato-yato would together mean "Wherever".

Yato yato == Yatah + Yatah = Wherever
yahi == Yaa (Which/What/That) + hi (ever, else) == Whatsoever
Tato = Tatah = There

So, it would translate as ===> Wherever whatever is, there Narasimha is. There is nothing which is beyond Narsimha deva. I go under the shelter of that Narasimha.

OM

devotee
23 December 2016, 09:15 AM
Namaste,

I found the above mantra slightly different in many other places. It says :

"Yato yato yaami tato Narasimha" ===> Here, Yaami means (I go). So, the meaning will be : "Wherever I go, there is Narasimha".

OM

Viraja
23 December 2016, 01:11 PM
@Anirudh ji : Thank you very much. Your explanation had been very helpful.

@Devotee ji: I'm truly obliged for your explanation. Thank you very much. (I'm referring to the first version in your reply, "yatho yatho yahi tato narasimha").

yajvan
23 December 2016, 05:09 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté & hello


Namaste Yajvan,
Thanks for the clarification.
I always had a doubt whether the correct pronunciation also includes a व्यंजन in end. ie 'haih'? The ha sound comes from the lower abdomen and trails back to the lower abdomen. I rely on this Shangu Chakra Gadha Padmam (https://www.youtube.com/user/vchak66) channel because of the melody and clarity in the voice.

Another doubt is what is the link between अः and ह
Should we treat अः as अ + ह् + अ? Since we have ह (ह् + अ) , what is the need of अः? I know there are many short forms in Devanagari but अः is included in स्वर (वर्ण) list.
Just a thought....
You mention व्यंजन (some write व्यञ्जन or vyañjana - a consonant) then write haih. I am not certain of your question at-hand. Let me offer the following.
If we go back to my earlier post regarding 'ai' vowel I mention ,
'ai' follow though with the the breath that formed the 'ai' as 'ḥai' there is no additional 'h' as shown in your term haih. That is, the mouth keeps the same position used for 'ai' of the last vowel ( in this case 'ai' or ऐ). If you are asking if the 'h' ( which is included in the ūsman or sibilants group as ~soft~ aspirated) is added to 'ḥai' or ḥai+h, no that would not be the case.
Note that ḥ = visarga = 'letting go'. The two dots: is how it is written ( expressed) in devanāgarī. But what is this 'letting go' ? It is none other than śiva\śakti letting go all of creation... these are the two dots śivaḥ & śakti. You see there is one school that thinks that nothing is ~ created~ as such, like a potter creating a pot. It is the notion of just 'letting go' this ~puff~ from the Supreme that all of creation comes out, and then the intelligence of the system which is inherent in the process manages the whole thing. This is the significance of visarga = 'letting go'.

You mention the following,

Should we treat अः as अ + ह् + अ? Since we have ह (ह् + अ) , what is the need of अः?
We treat it as अ + : = aḥ. It is no different than what I wrote above. The 'h' that you offer (ह्) is not visarga = 'letting go'.
The mouth is in the 'a' position, the easiest of all sound-forms and we just add the push of breath without leaving the existing mouth-open position. Yes, it comes from the stomach area. But it is not a BIG push. Many a chanter does give a big push till you think (we think) he is saying 'ha'... so be it. But when the breath comes though the mouth in this formation of 'a' + the push of air it kinda sounds like 'ha' but can be much ( much) gentler than a hard 'ha' sound. Like the example of namaḥ , people have come to think it is naa-maa-haa - yet this is incorrect. It remains nama-ḥa

Hope this helps,

इतिशिवं
iti śivaṁ