Singhi Kaya
13 April 2006, 11:22 AM
This thread is primarily intended for Vajradhara or any other practicing Tibetan buddhist. However any knowledgeable person should pitch in.
Essentially this is a spin off from the Tantrik Monism thread.
Prelude: Unlike Tantrism or Kaula Tantrism in particular, Tibetan buddhism is regarded as a religion (loosely used-I mean a complete tradition on it's own, not dependent on outside systems). Though it has been argued well that Kaula Tantrism is also self contained and independent (and I can somewhat agree to it) but nonetheless this is not widely held in Bharatiya society. Tantrism will be generally regarded as a specific path within sanatana dharma primarily aimed at God-realization.
I'm neither a tantrism scholar nor Tibetan buddhist scholar - infact know hardly anything on either. But discussion here and elsewhere has given me the following impression.
Kaula Tantrism
Sex and other items which are often considered counter to dharmic sadhna are accepted in the ritual of Tantrika. But more importantly sexula rituals in Kaula tantra as per our in-house practitioner , and he has said the following with evidence and conviction, is not mere acceptance but regards it as the fundamental point of the path. It seems view held is that chakra sadhna and sexual rituals is not a test of one's ability to master carnal urges but is a genuine method which grants experiences and takes the sadhak to the next level. It seemed Kaula tantrism as practiced today is overtly clear about this point.
Tibetian Buddhism
Tibetan buddhism is not tantrism but tantra is integrally associated with the tradition. It is buddhism in philosophy but tantra in practice and interpretation. Being an indian hindu my idea of this path is even much shallow than Tantrika. But some searched in internet and spending some time on buddhist forums in past, I gathered that Vajrayana stress the role of sexual rituals in much lighter shades at least to the public. Most websites stress much more on basic purification practices like ngondro which are required to enter the path.
Above are my impression ofcourse.
My question is a bit more deeper than just how much sex is stressed.
As I said Arjuna has made a point that sexual rituals in kaula are not a test of mastering one's desires but to give real spiritual experiences, which he (being a kaula) treats with high regards. He has even put down celibacy as the lowest level (pasu) in Tantrism (though I'm not convinced here as it seems counter intuitive).
So does Vajrayana holds the same view about sexual rituals? i.e they are practiced to give higher experiences and not just a test of one's progress? If so, does it views that these rituals are unavoidable if one chooses to follow the path and one remains at a lower stage if he/she doesn't participate in chakras?
It may be there are many views, but I would like to know the most prevalent.
Essentially this is a spin off from the Tantrik Monism thread.
Prelude: Unlike Tantrism or Kaula Tantrism in particular, Tibetan buddhism is regarded as a religion (loosely used-I mean a complete tradition on it's own, not dependent on outside systems). Though it has been argued well that Kaula Tantrism is also self contained and independent (and I can somewhat agree to it) but nonetheless this is not widely held in Bharatiya society. Tantrism will be generally regarded as a specific path within sanatana dharma primarily aimed at God-realization.
I'm neither a tantrism scholar nor Tibetan buddhist scholar - infact know hardly anything on either. But discussion here and elsewhere has given me the following impression.
Kaula Tantrism
Sex and other items which are often considered counter to dharmic sadhna are accepted in the ritual of Tantrika. But more importantly sexula rituals in Kaula tantra as per our in-house practitioner , and he has said the following with evidence and conviction, is not mere acceptance but regards it as the fundamental point of the path. It seems view held is that chakra sadhna and sexual rituals is not a test of one's ability to master carnal urges but is a genuine method which grants experiences and takes the sadhak to the next level. It seemed Kaula tantrism as practiced today is overtly clear about this point.
Tibetian Buddhism
Tibetan buddhism is not tantrism but tantra is integrally associated with the tradition. It is buddhism in philosophy but tantra in practice and interpretation. Being an indian hindu my idea of this path is even much shallow than Tantrika. But some searched in internet and spending some time on buddhist forums in past, I gathered that Vajrayana stress the role of sexual rituals in much lighter shades at least to the public. Most websites stress much more on basic purification practices like ngondro which are required to enter the path.
Above are my impression ofcourse.
My question is a bit more deeper than just how much sex is stressed.
As I said Arjuna has made a point that sexual rituals in kaula are not a test of mastering one's desires but to give real spiritual experiences, which he (being a kaula) treats with high regards. He has even put down celibacy as the lowest level (pasu) in Tantrism (though I'm not convinced here as it seems counter intuitive).
So does Vajrayana holds the same view about sexual rituals? i.e they are practiced to give higher experiences and not just a test of one's progress? If so, does it views that these rituals are unavoidable if one chooses to follow the path and one remains at a lower stage if he/she doesn't participate in chakras?
It may be there are many views, but I would like to know the most prevalent.