View Full Version : Dead?

24 May 2007, 03:42 PM

This question is inspired by Willie's comment on another thread.

Is our HDF forum dead?

True that there doesn't seem to be much activity lately but I can tell you from the logs that there are at least about twenty people logging in everyday. This number does not reflect the number of guest users that are on during the day.

I think that there is excellent content on this forum and so I see people searching and reading posts all the time as guests.

We as members have always maintained that 'quality' is better than quantity.

Also, note that I have taken measures to ensure that those who register as members are actual human beings and not just robots. Most forums have large number of members but that could be due to robots registering automatically and spamming real members. HDF does not allow robots to register, search, email or contact admin (me). That reminds me to ask: Do you guys ever get any spam that looks like it is coming from HDF? If you ever do, forward to me please and I will to it that it gets stopped at the source.

Having said that though, participation rate is very low. Could it be related to summer activities? or could it be because we are just taking a break? I couldn't say for sure.

Do you any of you have any feedback/concerns/issues on my recent posts? I feel very passionate about Hinduism and when I see someone attacking Hinduism, I can't stop myself but attack back. If this behaviour turns you off, let me know and I will stop.

Any suggestions?

Hmm...didn't realize that this is my 1201st post!!

24 May 2007, 07:21 PM
Namaste Satay,

With twenty genuine users logging in everyday plus guests I think the forum is not dead.
But nevermind the numbers; the posts I have read here are intelligent and the information in them is easily verifiable; the atmosphere is respectful and welcoming; a nice variety of topics is available; for anyone seeking a Hindu forum so they can give or receive information or knowledge or get intelligent feedback there is none better IMHO.
But if anyone is seeking a shouting match or audience for preaching or has less than the most honourable of intentions, the forum may seem dead. That's ok with me.


24 May 2007, 08:28 PM
Serene might be a nicer adjective.


24 May 2007, 09:02 PM
One has only to look that this board and read a little to seen the deadness of it. Seem that this hindu forum has fallen into the trap that kills most religions and forums.

The old not invented here is at work. All this talk about hinduism breaks down to the quoting of books written by people who are long since dead. Well that might be alright for some academic institution but it is not way for a real discussion to work .

Where are the people who live it each day and have to deal with the real world , while applying the principles. Mostly people seem to get along in the work with a combination of techniques that a the collected knowledge of a wide variety of people. Sort of like asking coworks where the best place to eat and what doctor to see. Here it seem to be a bit narrow and more of a my way or the highway mentality.

Most holy books were written by people who have been dead for centuries and still people quote them and some teaching that might be good a few centuries back but is not much use in the real world.

Then we have to idea tha brahman does not change , well that may be true but people sure do. At the have sort finite lives, for humans it is a rush to get some sort of job , education and have a family, then to support them so the offspring survive. Other wise the whole human race might die out. But over the years living has gotten easier to some extent and people don't have as many wars that last a long. But no holybook seems to give more than a token nod to this. So I can only assume that whoever wrote them have no idea of the way of life ever changing. Makes a person wonder if brahman had much influence over the authors.

In america and most of europe religion have changed drastically over the centuries. So of the standard religions pracitices in the dark ages would land a person in jail if they were tried today. And what has hinduism done. Well it seems to be looking into the rearview mirror of the past so hard that is has run into the future.

Not to pick on hinduism alone. But some of the contradicting ideas should be eliminated and a more unifided religion should emerge. If some of these ideas could be combined then the conflict with other religions would be lessened.

25 May 2007, 04:10 AM
Most holy books were written by people who have been dead for centuries and still people quote them and some teaching that might be good a few centuries back but is not much use in the real world.


Dear Willie,

Often I have liked your honesty and a few original thoughts. What you have written above, however, is incorrect on many accounts.

What has remained readable and valuable for many centuries has real spirit and real life; so the longevity. There is nothing wrong in spreading eternal knowledge.

Boards where lot of arguments take place, generally in bad taste, are always appealing to baser instincts -- may that be sensual or intellectual. Mirabai has correctly pointed this out. That is also the reason of popularity of war monger politicians like George Bush etc. Devotees who do have the patience to pour out their real experiences (against ego urge to show off) are mature/maturing devotees. They do not hanker for novelty at any cost.

You may shout again and again that the world has become easier. It is not the experience of majority of common people.

Then, you are very much a part of this forum and you also have some responsiblity, if the forum is dead.

If you knew Tao or had you read Gita properly you would have known that what is night for ignorant is day for the enlightened. Serenity is different from deadness and turmoil. It is confidence.

Young brides are often very impatient and tend to change the arrangement of furniture to light up their life. This kind of restlessness is often a reflection of internal drabness (death).

This internal drabness I suspect in you. I hope this honesty of mine will appear as full of life to you.


Om Namah Shivaya

25 May 2007, 09:37 AM
Hari Om

We have addressed the relevence of HDF before
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=11081&postcount=1 and its a good thing to always take a look at it and see if one's needs are being served by those that read here. That said, let me say this about that, as my friend says.

The lineige of this site is based upon Sanatana Dharma and hence the reference of great books as the veda's , upanishads, agama's are part of the discussion BECAUSE they are the origin of this Sanatana Dharma.
They are used because they have withstood the test of time - Truth and Wisdom are timeless; They ( the books or shastra's) are not dogma, unless the users of this wisdom allows them to be , due to their level of consciousness. The books are the offerings of the most wise and are light years beyond anything I have read in modern times , or of Western Philosophers. This is not a point of 'right and wrong' - its one of depth and breath of wisdom that withstood eons and at its core is the wisdom of life.
This wisdom is practical for modern time e.g. now. How so? What can be more practical then knowing how to act in society in the most successful way [ yogastha kuru karmani], skill in action. What can be more practical then to have all the laws of nature support your actions for the maximum return on your effort, or to suggest how to be happier or healthier or to avoid the pitfalls of life ( Ayurved, Samaved, Jyotish). This is the wisdom of these books - right action for the person, the family the nation.
It's my belief (really my orientation) to offer, discuss and really ponder the wisdom of the muni's and sages to understand the meaning and practical use in this day and age. If we just look at the words that are written , we are missing the 'gold' that is contained in them, lifeless words that may sound poetic, yet the meaning is key.
It is up to the HDF member to decide what to post. If one wishes to remain on the sidelines and watch, its ones own volition to do so and that is fine. If there is subject matter one wishes to debate or pursue there is no censure here for the pursuit of new views. We have asked on several occasions what more need to be done to make the site more attractive - lets hear the ideas. I have personally asked , is this information too much, too little or just right, yet no responses.
Yet, for me, if one wishes to talk of stress and strife of this world and bring up current affairs, I believe there are other sites that do a better of job of this ( and frankly I post to those sites myself).
In my humble opinion, I have seen the quality of posts improve, the demeanor of the conversations improve. This I believe meets the dignity of the subject matter that is being discussed. Can we do better? Absolutely. If we care to do better it does not come from the outside - it comes froms one's posts, guidence, recommendations , insights and even personal experience.
If these items above are foreign to ones orientation or seem really obtuse to ones thinking or behavior, perhaps HDF is not suited to your needs ... maybe another site will serve you better.
Last, We agreed in March that quality trumps quantity. If there is a respite in the quantity of posts, perhaps its a natual thing, and HDF is finding its rhythm. If this is not the case - then take the lead. Offer new ideas, probe, query, etc. Lets see what unfolds.Thank you for the opportnity to state my opinions on this matter.

25 May 2007, 08:10 PM
1. I think Willie has a point, though he has made it somewhat harshly: That we must discuss applied Hinduism, in addition.

We have excellent content on the exposition of Hinduism texts that cover the shravaNa (reading/listening) and manana (reflection/research) aspects of spiritual life.

In addition, let us also cover the nididhyAsana (meditation/application) aspect of spiritual life and discuss:

-- practice of Hinduism in daily personal life

-- how Hinduism could be applied in the life at the social, political, governmental and international levels as it was done in ancient India

-- in what way can Hinduism be a better alternative to the popular western religions; how it can unite the world today as it had done in the past

2. This must be in addition to the discussion we already have on the conceptual aspects of Hinduism. We should never shirk from exploring them because they promote and widen our true knowledge.

3. Let us face it: the average Hindu is NOT familiar with the Hindu scriptures to the extent the average Christian or Muslim is. One reason could be the number and depth of the Hindu texts, though the usual reason is callousness.

We need to address this point in HDF and have a synopsis (in the fashion of the definitions we collect) of our main Hindu scriptures, so they form a quick reference. The text we cover might include:

-- the four Vedas: their historicity, structure, content, and layers of meanings; the gods and concepts of the Vedas; Vedic civilization, culture and life; their relevance in Kali Yuga.

-- the Upanishads: a synopsis of the main Upanishads
-- the UpaVedas
-- the Vedangas
-- the Dharshanas
-- the Puranas
-- Bhagavad Gita
-- other texts

4. We should also have a collection of quotations (with their sources and phrasewise meanings), arranged topicwise, such as God, guru, vidya, niyama, etc. We already have a thread on shlokas which might perhaps be rearranged and added to.

5. We might have a Q & A forum and encourage members, specially those new to Hinduism to ask questions on the concepts and practice of Hinduism. These questions may be answered and discussed by any member, but with the sole purpose of consolidating relevan answers.

We may also collect Q & A from the spiritual magazines that have been answered by Hindu gurus.

6. Last but not the least, we must counter adharmic forces that seek to destroy Hindu religion, culture and civilization.

25 May 2007, 09:15 PM
Let's just take a look at the lasting power of the knowledge contained in these so called holybooks.

The vedas , for all they are claimed to say , don't really say anything about reincarnation. At least, no in clear words. And talk about a hard text to read , well you better be talking about the vedas. Only 6% of which are available to be read, in the first place. So as a little mental exercise , think about this. What would the old testament be like if we only had 6% of it to look at?

In the quran a lot of the stories are just rewrites of stories of the old testament. And the quran is just excerpts of what mohammad said during his life. There were scribes who followed him around and wrote down everything he said. Because he could not read or write himself but he did live to his late 60s. So he must have said a lot is his speeches. Where is this this historical material and what would reading it say about mohammad as a person? Wonder why it is not available?

Then there is the whole old and new testament thing. In the old testament god was pushing people to the point of sacrificing their own sons, killing infants, taking out whole cities with falling objects from the sky , having religious groups kill half of their members and pushing people to the breaking point to make them do his will.

In the new testament god is shown totally different.

Could it be that during the time of the old testament god learned that people were onerey but they were tough and no matter how many you killed they kept comming back and didn't quit. The responded to leadership and not fear and intimidation.

No one is trying to destroy hinduism but hinduism need to look around and figure out that religion has changed in the rest of the world and theybetter catchup. No one in america, except for a few fundamentalist, believe that other religions don't worship the same god as in the US. God seems to be god everywhere , just under a different name.

26 May 2007, 12:03 AM
Hari Om

Let's just take a look at the lasting power of the knowledge contained in these so called holybooks.
The vedas , for all they are claimed to say , don't really say anything about reincarnation.

Namaste Willie,
Let me add clarity here. This notion of reincarnation is clearly pointed out in the Chandogya Upanishad and is part of the Panchagni Vidya told to Svetaketu. The first question given to Svetaketu by his guru in this case a king (Pravahana Jaivali) is " Do you know where people go after they depart from this world?" Svetaketu answers, ' no I do not' - now begins the instruction.

Perhaps you will procalim, ' yes but that is in the Upanishads'... Willie, the Upanishads are part and parcel the Vedas. As are the Brahmana's. Chandogya Upanishad is part and parcel of the Sama Ved. So the structure of the ved is Samhita, Brahmana, Aranaka and Upanishads.

Veda means knowledge, as you know. Perhaps you are thinking of the mantra portion (samhita) of the veda's no doubt. They have a specific purpose. As do the Brahmana's and the Upanishads. reading the mantra portion is of a different method and intent.
The mantra portion (samhita) of the veda's are MORE about sound and meter - mantra and chandas, then about the WORDs. Yet this concept is not easily discussed and is not a entry level discussion to entertain.

If you feel slighted by only having 6% of the Veda's available to you, there are 108 Upanishads that you can read today. Let me know and I will list them out, yet I would start with the core 10 Upanishads.

The Fullness of the Veda's are found there, in the Upanishads, these are part and parcel, the veda's. Perhaps during a further post we can discuss the structure of the veda's yet I recommend you take a look at this post to begin with: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=11831&postcount=1

An additional point: the veda's are eternal wisdom, they are never lost. The risi's did not sit down and say , lets write a book, as if its a book of history or prayers. They cognized this wisdom within thier own consciousness, in akasha. That means they did not write it, they 'seen and heard' it in their level of unbounded awareness. It cannot be lost. It only can be recalled. It can never go away , it is the fundamental structure of consciousness.
Knowledge is structured in consciousness...this is a key fundamental principle of the veda.

Not a simple concept to 'get' until you 'get it' from one that operates from this level of Being, and things are made clear. We do have people on this planet that is at this level of Consciousness. My angst is they are far and few between. We need more, hence my posts for people to consider meditation - lets build 'em ourselves!

So, I encourage you to to read some of this great work, the Upanishads, them come back with your opinions.


27 May 2007, 10:54 AM
Let's just take a look at the lasting power of the knowledge contained in these so called holybooks.

The vedas , for all they are claimed to say , don't really say anything about reincarnation. At least, no in clear words. ------

Dear Willie,

Have you read the Vedas completely? Has anyone? Vedas do talk of unborn unchanging Atma and coming and going of Manas (man is manas) at several places. Asiya Vamiya Sukta is one such example. Purusa Sukta is another example. A cycle (like our scientific carbon cycle) is well established in the Vedas.

Don't expect Vedas to teach you in your present language and present perspective. It teaches in an eternal way. Whether you are able to assimilate or not depends on your perspective.From the same verse in Veda, a set of people will appreciate the basic foundation (unlimited intelligence) and its energies as the truth, whereas same verse may indicate to another a four armed solid being as the Supreme.

Knowledge never dies - interpretations come and go.

Om Namah Shivaya