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yajvan
05 June 2007, 11:21 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste saksin,
As of late there have been a volley of posts regarding the vedas. What they are , how many, their completeness, etc.
An inquiry has been made as to who has read them and pondered this knowledge.

All my readings and my instruction clearly point to reading is fine, but hearing is essential. To think one will grasp the wisdom of the Veda's (in this sense I am discussing the mantra's themselves, the samhita) by reading them is a noble cause, which will only bare little fruit. Why so? The mantra's of the veda's touch three worlds as the risi's would say:
Sabda - this sound/vibration - rest and activity of the meter is of key import
Artha - meaning
Sakti - the inherent energy within the sound - it's power to transmit Bhuma, fullness; note the mantra's in the Ved are known as Brahman.

So, proper chanting & hearing of the Vedas are vital to the transmission of its Bhuma , fullness of understanding and culturing ones consciousness. This discipline is called siksa ( sheek -sah). This siksa is vital. In conventional terms the word means education and learning ( and I then would be the sisya, or student, of siksa). Proper siksa brings out the fullness of the ved. Just as the proper use of a japa-mantra brings its fruits, like that.

Siksa is concerned with proper chanting and the applicaiton of syllables, sound, meter, strength, even-ness (sama) and the connection of these sounds, not to mention intonation and pitch . This is why the samhita's hve been handed down from teacher-to-student, as the sudent learns these subtlety's from the master via listening.

When someone wishes to read the veda samhita as if it was a text book will miss the richness found in Sabha, Artha and Sakti inherent in the mantras.

This is what the rishi's bring to the family of man. This is what they have 'seen' in their consciousness. Not a book of words, but the full knowledge transmission of jnana (from jna, to know). Yet if one wished to read the veda for it's enjoyment I would recommend the 9th and 10 th mandala's.

That said, this truth is paramount - the level of or the expansion of one's consciousness makes the Veda's bare maximum fruit - That is, knowledge is structured in our consciousness, because ultimately knowledge Is Consciousness, and their connection point is one and the same:

Richo akshare parame vyoman yasmin deva adhi vishve nisheduh,
Yastanna veda kim richa karishyatiya it tad vidus ta ime samasate.
(Rk Veda, 1.164.39)

The Veda or rks, reside in the transcendental field or akshara, of the highest (parame) ethereal Being (vyoman) in which reside all the adhi vishve deva's (or impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature), responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open (na veda) to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness (samasate or rest contented) , in That ( Tat or Bhuma, fullness-wholeness of life)."

What does this say in short? Of what use is the ved, for he whom is not becoming established in the Absolute? Where will be the value of this great knowledge other then words... become established in the avyayam (undecaying), the atman, the SELF, sama or even-ness to reap the full value of the knowledge.

A past post on Rishi, Meter and Devata that is identified for each sloka of the Rk Ved.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=9372&postcount=1 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=9372&postcount=1)

pranams,

willie
05 June 2007, 10:16 PM
More talk and not much else.

So I would suppose that the vedas were written in ancient hindu sanskrit, as that must have been the language of the educated person , in their time. But such a language is not in wide spread use today and I would thing that the number of people who can understand, write it , or speak fluently in it are few and far between. This leads to the thought that people able to hear and understand the vedas would be few and far between. Then because all these people are learned men a fight or, at least, a yelling match could break out over the pronunciation of a certain critical word.

The main problem with this oral tradition is that it keeps the knowledge in the hands of a few people who will use it to control the masses and we can see what this has led to. So I would say that the vedas should be translated into every possible language and put on audio cd and dvds in all languages possible. Have no supposed experts telling the reader or hearer what certain passages mean and let this knowledge be free. Brahman probably wanted that in the first place but made the mistake of give it to people who would hide it to become kings over the ignorant.

What good is a caged bird that can only sing to one person, when a free bird can sing to a crowd every day.

yajvan
05 June 2007, 11:41 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

More talk and not much else.
The main problem with this oral tradition is that it keeps the knowledge in the hands of a few people who will use it to control the masses

Willie, not sure of your reference points, or your orientation here. But to me the points you make are all conjecture...

"More talk and not much else". = what ? please advise the point you are considering.

"Control the masses " - (are you sure you have logged into the right forum? ) please give me an example of control. Risi's desiring the control of the masses... tell me where I can sign up!

These conversations put forth are of spiritual intent. For Politics and the like, I think we have a folder for that.

I am in hopes your participation can be constructive, even uplifting. I look forward to your insightful posts.
So far the conversation put forth is that of polemics and I choose not to particiapte.

regards,

Kaos
07 June 2007, 06:07 AM
What good is a caged bird that can only sing to one person, when a free bird can sing to a crowd every day.




Willie, the cage was never locked.

Agnideva
07 June 2007, 02:38 PM
Namaste Willie,

So I would say that the vedas should be translated into every possible language and put on audio cd and dvds in all languages possible.Isn't this already being done, Willie? Haven't you been able to find parts of the Veda to read and analyze?

The "problem" is that most English translations only bring out the materialistic and ritualistic meanings of the hymns. The yogic and philosophical meanings have not been adequately elaborated in many translations. This is mostly because the 19th century English translators relied heavily on the work of a certain 14th century ritualist commentator called Sayana. More recent translations, however, are making up for the lack of deeper analysis of the Vedic hymns in earlier translations.

OM Shanti,
A.