How Krishna came to the West

[Indialover]

Post deleted

[Jainarayan]

Namaste...

The only problem is that the arrival of Columbus to the New World opened the flood gates for the decimation of the native peoples. I don't think Sri Krishna would have been party to that.

[Viraja]

But Krishna became curious of the West and asked Srila Prabhupada zu bring Him there.


Truly, the Dark matter is mysterious as well as marvelous.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste...

The only problem is that the arrival of Columbus to the New World opened the flood gates for the decimation of the native peoples. I don't think Sri Krishna would have been party to that.

Why exactly would Sri Krsna send a gold thirsty barbarian to a beautiful culture which is steeped in deep spirituality to, steal, enslave, slaughter and massacre them and then convert them by force to a man made backward religion. Sri Krsna never leaves Dwarpa Yuga and only appears in Kali Yuga as the beautiful Golden Gaura form of Sri Chaitanya ( acintya beda abeda, manifestation of purusha and prakiriti) in Kali Yuga to synthesis the dharma traditions through Hari Nam and Bhakti and cool the influences of attachment to sense consciousness which revolves around the greed for Gold, material enjoyment and exploitation.

If anyone was fortunate to hear Krsna's flute he would become a Bhagavat a divine Human being non different to Ishwara and his flute and certainly would not go around stealing and murdering people on mass. The Bhagavat is the flute of Krsna.



Truly, the Dark matter is mysterious as well as marvelous.

Truly the darkness of tamas is a mystery but not really that marvellous :)

[Viraja]

Truly the darkness of tamas is a mystery but not really that marvellous :)

If you equate 'darkness' with 'tamas', then you call Krishna 'tamasic'?

I wrote it with the pun, here is the meaning for it - The OP sounds like 'Indians flocking America with their Krishna after America is set alright with the effort of Columbus and his people' (when earlier Krishna refused to let in columbus in to his land - India).

Therefore, I'm alluding to the fact, in a pun intended manner, and what I mean to say is, 'Yes, but it is all the dark skinned Africans that did the work, not Columbus and his people anyways, and now it is yet again, another dark skinned troop from India that will do the spiritual part with their dark-skinned Krishna'.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Viraj Ji

I was in light mood when saying

But if you insist that Krsna is somehow Matter then so be it, but that is not his swarupa, and the darkness of Krsna in Yajur Veda has nothing to do with skin colour, unless your promoting racist connotations and superficial skin deep superiority and then applying that to Krsna.

Dark Matter is mostly a scientific term, and the brick wall they hit due to the empirical method which is filled with tamasic ignorant methods, which leads to inertia according to Bhagavad Gita, to explain the totality of reality of something more close to home such as consciousness, but somehow think they will solve by that method at some point in the future, which is a form of madness.

No it wasnt the dark skinned Africans that did his work it was Spanish people, it was the British that brought the Africans in at a later date and mostly to North America and Caribbean Islands, the Portuguese to Brazil. The Spanish had very little to do with the slave trade it was mostly the British, Portuguese and French.

But if you think that Krsna protected India by sending Columbus to South America and the Caribbean islands, to then regroup in a different form of monotheistic materialistic control at a later date to conquer India then it just baffling.


another dark skinned troop from India that will do the spiritual part with their dark-skinned Krishna'.

Could you elaborate, sounds very much like some race superiority to me absorbed in bodily consciousness and bringing krsna into the bodily concept and race game, are Indians the only people who are spiritual and here to save the world. I am not sure that other ethic groups would be to happy about that with their naturally arising forms of spirituality that are just as profound as the Vedic Cultures.

Please brush up on your history and your understanding of your own spiritual culture which is not exclusive, which has nothing to do with outside dualistic appearances. What about Sri Rama who is often portrayed as green and Shiva in his purest form as White, are these outside bodily colours. Where are all the green people representing Raja Ram, or was that only in previous historical timescale about 150,00 years ago in linear time.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste

How Krishna came to the West
The way Krsna comes to the west is when he reveals his full swaurpa through Surya Dev.

Harih Om

[markandeya 108 dasa]

While we are here Viraj Ji

Lets look back a bit to your other comments about happened between me and Annirudha. Do you think its correct to condemn poor people in India to their fate because so called Indian Astrology in its present form says that each person is forced to live out their Karma and there is nothing anyone can do because its already written in the stars by God, how pathetic. If people side with these things they need to take a good long look at there humanity. Sadly the real people of India do not know how to express their lives online, and other Indians are totally suppressed by traditional aggressive intellectuals that put the blame on everyone else apart from themselves while filling their pockets, which causes more problems for the real good people of India. I speak for them, not for myself. So I offer no apologies.

Im very popular in real India... but maybe not with the intellectuals who are not really that intelligent and wkno very little about their their own culture.

Hare Krsna

[Indialover]

Namaste Jaynarayan

All what happens in the universe is the will of the Almighty … Krishna.

Krishna says in Bhagaved Gita

10.34: I am the all-devouring Death, and I am the origin of those things that are yet to be. Amongst feminine qualities I am fame, prosperity, fine speech, memory, intelligence, courage, and forgiveness.

11.32: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist.

11.33: Therefore, arise and attain honor! Conquer your foes and enjoy prosperous rulership. These warriors stand already slain by Me, and you will only be an instrument of My work, O expert archer.

BG 11.34: Dronacharya, Bhishma, Jayadratha, Karna, and other brave warriors have already been killed by Me. So slay them without being disturbed.

Arjuna was His instrument … why should not Columbus have been His instrument alike? His next instrument was Prabhupada. At the end we are all His instruments in His marvelous cosmic play, only allowed to see the manifest part, not allowed to see behind the curtain.

BG 2.28: O scion of Bharat, all created beings are unmanifest before birth, manifest in life, and again unmanifest on death. So why grieve?

Thus do not grieve too. All is right the way it is.

Pranam

[Viraja]

Namaste Viraj Ji

I was in light mood when saying

But if you insist that Krsna is somehow Matter then so be it, but that is not his swarupa, and the darkness of Krsna in Yajur Veda has nothing to do with skin colour, unless your promoting racist connotations and superficial skin deep superiority and then applying that to Krsna.

Dark Matter is mostly a scientific term, and the brick wall they hit due to the empirical method which is filled with tamasic ignorant methods, which leads to inertia according to Bhagavad Gita, to explain the totality of reality of something more close to home such as consciousness, but somehow think they will solve by that method at some point in the future, which is a form of madness.

No it wasnt the dark skinned Africans that did his work it was Spanish people, it was the British that brought the Africans in at a later date and mostly to North America and Caribbean Islands, the Portuguese to Brazil. The Spanish had very little to do with the slave trade it was mostly the British, Portuguese and French.

But if you think that Krsna protected India by sending Columbus to South America and the Caribbean islands, to then regroup in a different form of monotheistic materialistic control at a later date to conquer India then it just baffling.

Could you elaborate, sounds very much like some race superiority to me absorbed in bodily consciousness and bringing krsna into the bodily concept and race game, are Indians the only people who are spiritual and here to save the world. I am not sure that other ethic groups would be to happy about that with their naturally arising forms of spirituality that are just as profound as the Vedic Cultures.



I think you are talking about the 'god particle' experiment. I do not know too much about it but I can tell you the word, 'matter' as casually exclaimed, need not apply only to the scientific Dark matter. It can even be the simple pigment, Melatonin. And without knowing too much about the slave trade or who or how the Blacks came to America, one can have a solid understanding of history, as the pain and suffering the Blacks endured as slaves in America is quite profound. Please do not deny that.

I did not assert that Krishna stopped Columbus from finding India, so as to stop White invasion and to grant it later via the British. But if someone says it was Krishna who led Columbus astray to find America instead of India and would also proceed to say, that act disqualifies Krishna from going to America now, then I am entitled to play their game for them, and say, yes, Krishna did it and justify that in my own way. If people can first prove their accusation in saying it was Krishna who prevented Columbus from finding India, then I can also say why Krishna did that and later let in the British, contrary to what can be understood.

It is not that Indians are the ones who are spiritually superior. It is Krishna, who is purushottama. And this makes Indians, who worship Krishna, entitled with something more precious than what others have had.

Darkness is somehow equated with tamas energy. Darkness, at least in skin color, promotes internal humility. At least that's why I think, Krishna is dark.



Please brush up on your history and your understanding of your own spiritual culture which is not exclusive, which has nothing to do with outside dualistic appearances. What about Sri Rama who is often portrayed as green and Shiva in his purest form as White, are these outside bodily colours. Where are all the green people representing Raja Ram, or was that only in previous historical timescale about 150,00 years ago in linear time.

I watched a recent video which was funny wherein the presenter was joking about how the male brain is so very compartmentalized, having a specific region for each purpose and the female brain is more cohesive where everything is interacting with each other. He was just making it look as if women's brain works against the intentions of nature, to present someone without any clarity of thinking.

Actually, I think it is just that the male brain that thinks it 'knows' everything that cannot synthasize or assimilate what it knows to extract the truer wisdom. So sad!

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste viraja

i think you need to stop watching videos online for your education and now its the male brain that is inferior to the female one. :) Pure advaita

Om Shanti

I hope Jainarayan Ji can clear up the ridiculous attempt at externalising the teaching of gita into monotheistic determinism.

Ok Krsna sent Columbus to south america kill people...... To save India and everything is just fine.....

i wonder how the Native Americans feel about that and Hinduism now, I am sure they are very pleased to serve Indian in that way.

Do you know how Indians Treat Africans in their own country. If there are any Africans here I am sure they will not be to pleased if allowed to speak.

[Indialover]

Namaste

I deleted the post ... a simple nice story, told by a Krishna devotee after singing and playing music on a joyful Sunday feast.

It is degrading what is made of it. Have fun with brain train, but be careful that your head does not shatter.

I hope Jainarayan Ji can clear up the ridiculous attempt at externalising the teaching of gita into monotheistic determinism.

Two Westerners, with ji or without ji, who do not understand cosmic and karmic law, are definitely not an authority for me.

Pranam

[Viraja]

I hope Jainarayan Ji can clear up the ridiculous attempt at externalising the teaching of gita into monotheistic determinism.

Ok Krsna sent Columbus to south america kill people...... To save India and everything is just fine.....

i wonder how the south Americans feel about that and Hinduism now, I am sure they are very pleased to serve Indian in that way.

Hope I can take an attempt for Jainarayan's part. I liked his reply formerly.

Regarding externalizing teachings of Bhagawad Gita into monotheistic determinism as you phrased it, I can tell that civilization is maturing. How many countries, or races for that matter, had all ears for dark-skinned Indians formally, if I may ask? Did Gandhi get it in South Africa? But he would in all possibility, get it now. That is why, Krishna wants to go to America.


Do you know how Indians Treat Africans in their own country. If there are any Africans here I am sure they will not be to pleased if allowed to speak.

It goes without mention there is darkness still left to humanity, may be that is why Krishna is sending his troop all over, so they could broaden up, brighten up while still being able to contribute something worthwhile.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste

I deleted the post ... a simple nice story, told by a Krishna devotee after singing and playing music on a joyful Sunday feast.

It is degrading what is made of it. Have fun with brain train, but be careful that your head does not shatter.

I hope Jainarayan Ji can clear up the ridiculous attempt at externalising the teaching of gita into monotheistic determinism.

Two Westerners, with ji or without ji, who do not understand cosmic and karmic law, are definitely not an authority for me.

Pranam

your quite funny Indialover

[Viraja]

your quite funny Indialover

Oh yeah, on one hand, it is a 'simple nice story' told by a 'Krishna devotee' but the pun is intended at making Krishna a global deity.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Oh yeah, on one hand, it is a 'simple nice story' told by a 'Krishna devotee' but the pun is intended at making Krishna a global deity.

Namate Viraja Ji

With all due respect the intention of spreading Krsna consciousness is not to install Him as a Monotheistic Godhead, beacsue it is simple this that is creating havoc which is very real and effects people lives, some of the previous Sadhu's such as Srila Prabhupada, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Vivekananda Swami ji and Yogi Paramahamsa used Christian Theology in their teachings because that was the only language that the audiences that they preached to was conditioned to understand, and thus has caused major confusion for the short term in Vedanta, but there are much more subtle teachings that they included themsleves which can only be accessed by following their sadhanas to out grow the false and harmful teachings of monotheism.

Personally I am much more inspired when I see people of all races join together in Kirtan and sangha from all races and cultures in harmony than localize it to any skin coloured race.

Indialover Sir

i say with respect, but have you ever considered that you are deeply conditioned by your Christian upbringing and relying on that rather than learn what is Vedanta, it is site dedicated to Sanatana Dharma after all which has hardly any trace of Monotheism apart from the initial creative potency of BrahmA Dev when he is bewildered in the hiranyagharba and creates the conditioned jiva a as the initial outward expression which leads to fall down of the chitta with uncontrolled material desires and ultimately the creation of Dukkha~unease within the chitta, this is an example that Monotheism leads to suffering according to Vedanta. There is much more to Vedanta than meets the literal eye, and when the Chitta then reverts and turns inwards and seeks answer from the creator of misery he BrahmA Deva is totally clues less and has to seek out something superior to him.

As you said earlier and very recently your the last one to defend Christianity but the majority of your posts are heavily influenced by that Theology. The original advaita vision is severely hampered by monotheism what to speak of their mistranlsations of the Siddhantas

Maybe the devotee sang a nice Kirtan, I also like Gregorian Chanting its very soothing, but that doesnt mean I will listen to Christian Theology that we are all born as sinners and have to surrender to an external God who is responsible for evil acts in the world and its ok its part of the bigger picture, and then get threatened to be sent to hell forever if we dont accept, just because they sing a nice rhythm which is nice on ears.

I dont thnk that anyone that came under the brutality of Columbus, which still has very negative ramifications in the real world today and will ever see and accept it as a master plan by Krsna to later introduce Srila Prabhupada other Vedantic sadhus at a later date, its just bizarre and I doubt many Native Americans will be rushing to buy and learn Bhagavad Gita after reading this, its a pure insult to what happened to their civilisation, which is neither above or below the traditional Indian teachings on Vedanta.

Its a shame you deleted the initial post, because I was going to share it with South American Hare Krsna groups to see what they would say and post back some of the results. I know for certain that they would not be happy with it.

if you want to put it to the test retype it and then lets see what they say, it may be interesting and help to clear things up. What you wrote is very damaging to a lot of hard work that has been put in by very dedicated devotees, not part timers, what to speak of totality misrepresenting Krsna and his teachings and Sanatana Dharma in general. Many devotees spend their time online and other good vedantist that actually practice what they type and have given their whole life to spread the magnanimous and beautiful teachings of unity of all people for the upliftment of society to help install that everyone has the right to their own divinity and not through acts violence to introduce Krsna and his teachings on Bhagavad Gita.

I guess were gonna get hit with the Mahabaharata war and Krsna created a mass war just to please the pandavas.

Hare Krsna

[Viraja]

Namate Viraja Ji

With all due respect the intention of spreading Krsna consciousness is not to install Him as a Monotheistic Godhead, beacsue it is simple this that is creating havoc which is very real and effects people lives, some of the previous Sadhu's such as Srila Prabhupada, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Vivekanda Swami ji and Yogi Paramahamsa used Christian Theology in their teachings because that was the only language that the audiences that they preached to was conditioned to understand, and thus has caused major confusion for the short term in Vedanta, but there are much more subtle teachings that they included themsleves which can only be accessed by following their sadhanas to out grow the false and harmful teachings of monotheism.

Personally I am much more inspired when I see people of all races join together in Kirtan and sangha from all races and cultures in harmony than localize it to any skin coloured race.


I find it very interesting you think Vedantha to not be self-sufficient so as to consider other religion's thought patterns... quite the contrary, my belief is that there are so many branches of thoughts and schools in Vedantha that other religions borrowed from it! But I stop here as I do not have a concrete proof or example to narrate, but never taking back my belief. :)

[markandeya 108 dasa]

I find it very interesting you think Vedantha to not be self-sufficient so as to consider other religion's thought patterns... quite the contrary, my belief is that there are so many branches of thoughts and schools in Vedantha that other religions borrowed from it! But I stop here as I do not have a concrete proof or example to narrate, but never taking back my belief.

I really and honestly have no idea what your saying

[Viraja]

I really and honestly have no idea what your saying

Yes, MD ji, I have felt illumined with all your genius words, let me say, monotheism is really bad for the world of Sanathana Dharmis at large. Brahma's disillusionment during creation, whereby he created imperfect souls while he himself is imperfect is apathetic, but Hinduism grants plethora of other thoughts like you said that can clear away the jeeva's confusion when he so realizes. But give Xianity, like you put it, even listening to a cute bhajan or kirtan can condemn the soul!!! OMG! What to speak of other thoughts then?! I wonder where monotheistic Christians are headed to....?!

[Viraja]

While we are here Viraj Ji

Lets look back a bit to your other comments about happened between me and Annirudha. Do you think its correct to condemn poor people in India to their fate because so called Indian Astrology in its present form says that each person is forced to live out their Karma and there is nothing anyone can do because its already written in the stars by God, how pathetic. If people side with these things they need to take a good long look at there humanity. Sadly the real people of India do not know how to express their lives online, and other Indians are totally suppressed by traditional aggressive intellectuals that put the blame on everyone else apart from themselves while filling their pockets, which causes more problems for the real good people of India. I speak for them, not for myself. So I offer no apologies.

Im very popular in real India... but maybe not with the intellectuals who are not really that intelligent and wkno very little about their their own culture.

Hare Krsna

Honestly not sure what this is about.... Sri Ramakrishna paramahamsa is said to run away when and whenever he was surrounded by misery. I see myself as a giver, not a self-promoter. I know, I am not going anywhere with this reply.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Viraja Ji,



At the heart of the problem it is causing confusion in the outside world You think I am self promoting, not in the slightest, i stand up to real issues, often at great personal expense where i see the effects in the real world and peoples lives then trace them back to the source, if i was self promoting as you are projecting, I would be doing youtube videos, writing books and trying to become a figure in society like mooji and these popular spiritual personalities, not that they are bad but thats just not me, my reality is very different, you may not understand the ways of sadhakas in seva, I am simple a dasa. If I was self promoting I would not be the way I am, i would be just agreeing with the flow of the crowd to be accepted when many a time I alienate myself for the greater cause.

if anyone would accept or even understand what is being said I would just point them to further their learning with others far more qualified than me and then move on, not attach them to me. Anything that i say which if it ever inspires for people to realise it for themselves, I want or need nothing from anyone, only to be kept in seva and defend each persons level of understanding their own divinity, I think and hope some others will get what Im saying and further build on it according to what inspires them, and these silly posts that have nothing to do with Vedanta is just a medium for expressing Vedanta in the right way and covering key issues, im not bored and just posting cause there is nothing else to do. In terms of giving, well you would need to know me in person to see what has been given without not one ounce of wanting anything in return, I am sure you would be pleasantly surprised, and the the service thats done for projects in India and around the world, and whats been given up most people wouldn't understand because they build their whole life as the aim to acquire as a success in life.

What you have said about BrahmA is not right according to Vedanta, BrahmA is not an outside God or even an outside projection of an external creator that creates the outside external universe and creating Jivas, its the creative principle of individual consciousness, Vedanta does NOT deal with these things, they are ancient (timeless) sciences on consciousness which has no real physical properties, other than which relates to being, thats why modern science cant understand or measure although everyone us knows we have consciousness, the simplest way to say is that we all have BrahmA as an internal Deity that creates first the conditions of the individual from the level of the pure chitta and creates through the gunas the modes of conscious nature, becomes purified due to the end result which creates conditions of suffering due to separation and then when the principle of separated individual consciousness seeks out Vishnu and wakes up becomes a pure transparent medium of the Divine forces Ishwara, who is also not the creator God in the Monotheistic religions, most illiterates in India know this as first nature, but educated intellectuals of Indian especially Western educated Indians cant grasp it because they too have become conditioned by corrupt educations systems. What you have said is mixing BrahmA with the Monotheistic Theology, and its wrong according to your own traditions, its as simple as that, if your offended by this then get a native to explain it to you, or someone you respect that has this knowledge preserved in his adhikara, so lets hear more Indians getting it right so you can accept based on your idea that the brown people are here to save the world, just after Krsna very cleverly killed millions of people for the last 2000 years, just to promote Indian Superiority, send his representatives and install Krsna as the world Godhead, I have not heard in that in Gita or from any of his sadhus, no matter what translations say and the way people manipulate his teachings within translations.

Lets put something else straight to clear the record, this is not directed to THE PEOPLE who are known as Christians, its about exposing the falsity of Christian Theology so they wake up to the lie that they have been conditioned to, the positive side effect of this is that we can just get on with being minute attributes of Ishvara and expanding that divine Being for the upliftment of a free thinking society, there are many good Gnostic teachings within that tradition, but that is not necessarily a direct source from Christianity, Just as Sanatana Dharma is not necessarily Hinduism, and talking out against Hinduism is not against Indian people or Sanatana Dharma, its about the foreign construct, the isms that has created division between followers of the sikh dharma, Jain Dharma, Buddha Dharma and the siddhantas, the competition of who is the Supreme Shiva and Visnu, these are all foreign ideas that Indian intellectuals are often misguided into, all of the former I have mentioned are sanatana dharma traditions and Hinduism is where these are divided by so called difference of beliefs and does not exist in sanatana dharma, but they do in Hinduism, and falsely educated Indians are actually sometimes the biggest threat to their own culture but lack self awareness. How many Indians have you seen arguing about their views, just because they come from different aspects of Sanatana Dharma, this is due to the foreign construct of Hinduism.

Harih Om

[Viraja]

MD ji, I used to be a dummy, still cannot get over the feeling completely, but you just do not know, how much your wisdom matters to me. Wish I know you in person. I will try and answer to your above post in a little bit. Thanks.

[Viraja]

What you have said is mixing BrahmA with the Monotheistic Theology, and its wrong according to your own traditions, its as simple as that, if your offended by this then get a native to explain it to you, or someone you respect that has this knowledge preserved in his adhikara, so lets hear more Indians getting it right so you can accept based on your idea that the brown people are here to save the world, just after Krsna very cleverly killed millions of people for the last 2000 years, just to promote Indian Superiority, send his representatives and install Krsna as the world Godhead, I have not heard in that in Gita or from any of his sadhus, no matter what translations say and the way people manipulate his teachings within translations.

Lets put something else straight to clear the record, this is not directed to THE PEOPLE who are known as Christians, its about exposing the falsity of Christian Theology so they wake up to the lie that they have been conditioned to, the positive side effect of this is that we can just get on with being minute attributes of Ishvara and expanding that divine Being for the upliftment of a free thinking society, there are many good gnostic teachings within that tradition, but that is not necessarily a direct source from Christianity, Just as Sanatana Dharma is not necessarily Hinduism, and talking out against Hinduism is not against Indian people or Sanatana Dharma, its about the foreign construct, the isms that has created division between followers of the sikh dharma, Jain Dharma, Buddha Dharma and the siddhantas, the comption of who is the Supreme Shiva and Visnu, these are all foriegn ideas that Indian intellectuals are often misguided into, all of the former I have mentioned are sanatana dharma traditions and Hinduism is where these are divided by so called difference of beliefs and does not exist in sanatana dharma, but they do in Hinduism, and falsely educated Indians are actually sometimes the biggest threat to their own culture but lack self awareness. How many Indians have you seen arguing about their views, just because they come from different aspects of Sanatana Dharma, this is due to the foreign construct of Hinduism.

Harih Om

What I might have meant earlier by saying Brahma being one with 'monotheistic theology' is that he being the sole-creator, is in addition, endowed with complete freedom to create every species, and of particular interest, the jeevatman, according to his understanding of the rules of creation. But that does not mean the created jeevatman carries any limitations. Brahma has endowed the jeevatman with willpower as well as the indriyas to create karmas as per the jeevatma's will. Along the same standards, the reason for saying krishna sends his troops over for a monotheistic order of Krishna consciousness throughout the world, is not to establish Indian supremacy. But, to take the Brahma-granted willpower few levels up, in enabling the jeevatman practice 9-different forms of Bhakti.

Just as the 4 blind men story narrates, we all view reality based on our limitations. No one has the potential to see the whole, we all see merely parts, but the beauty is we all could be true! That you are saying Indians are arguing about their views exemplifies this fundamental one-and-yet-diverse phenomenon and shows the capacity of Sanathana Dharma, which is the only place where monotheism could work.

I hope you will address where I've been misled in understanding your message correctly. Thanks.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Viraja Ji,

Please dont say you used to be a dummy, we are all evolving out of ignorant states and we should be helping one another to further reduce those limited states into something higher, more sacred and unified.

Thank you for some of your kind comments and forgive me for some of my blunt comments, but there are quite a few issues around these types of talks that I do like to address due to seeing the importance but maybe unskilled to do it with wisdom, plus typing is very mechanical and I am still not very fluid to connect my thoughts with typing. If there is any disagreement its more to do with views.


No one has the potential to see the whole, we all see merely parts,

Everyone does have the full potential to see the Whole, and then see how Brahman reflects in the parts, but the seeing is Brahman and what it see's is only its own nature, in one sense nobody can fully see the whole because Brahman is always expanding infinitely and is not an object, but that essence of Brahman is one and undivided in the appearances of parts external created objects, the seeing is Brahman and is whole complete and not divided and of One nature which is Self sufficient within its own Being.

The practice of sadhanas is to first notice consciously that wholeness in oneself and by that union it naturally expands into seeing within all created objects the same Oneness of Brahman.

Creation in the Dharma traditions is to see how creation of beings or types of consciousness arise within the chitta or mind states, beings being states of mind, not different jivas. JIvas is one entity, one atomic principle, were the subtle consciousness is acting either through the modes or gunas of nature or through the divine will iccha , to understand what conditions create different states within chitta~conscious centre of the jiva. The picture of Maha vishnu with unlimited universes coming from his pores are these atomic parts, unlimited individual jivas, we as individual consciousness beings, weather a human, animal, plant or insect is the expansion of one of these original atoms the shudastika. Sadhana is to shrink that atom back to its original size via conscious means for it to be reprogrammed by the divine and then can expand back out as a liberated being, that is jivatma and has the same power and potency of ishvara. Brahmans does not mix with matter, its always free, it gets covered.

There is something far more profound behind this understanding of the original atom that comes from Maha Vishnu in the purified state and I am working on ways to try and at least explain it and simplify to some degree, but its quite difficult due my limitations in language and typing skills. But for a start all these BrahmA's that Create different universes is not the same as outside multiple universes in physics that extend in the outside space that we perceive with the senses, we are all universes but language and perception of universe is causing some key misunderstandings, its not that we are all the external universe, thats is completely impossible and boarding on ridiculous to think so, but some do. Give me more time, I would say 5 or 10 years I will be able to explain these things much clearer, I understand it very clearly but find it hard to write it out.

So the practice of the conscious sadhanas is self reflective and not so concerned with the outer creation of the physical universe, which both science and religion seems obsessed by and misses the point of the creation in the context of the conscious sciences, I dont think the ancient rishis and awakened spent any great of time trying to understand that in the way modern science or the religions that deals with the outer creation of the universe, what they mean by universe and what the shastras means by universe are two different things, in the outer physical universe they simple didn't know, they just saw the wonder of maya as a principle in nature in conscious terms that reflective the unlimited nature of the Absolute within the field of creation as a way to notice the divine in nature. Modern and scientific methods cut up nature, break it into parts and try to see how the physical elements interact for final manifestation, where as the rishis and awakened see the outside creation as a carrier of a divine Absolute conscious principle that has no parts. It becomes very complicated to mix the the two and explain, but quite easy when one has evolved conscious sadhana practices, which is far more important, all this external empirical explanation should help to educate people in the right way and fight off corruptions in the empirical method and bring one ultimately to doing sadhanas which will eventually promote automatic states guided and empowered by divine conscious subtle forces that have no trace of evil only auspiciousness. Unfortunately we have to engage in these sparring debates to just bring our level of being to a very simplistic but profound state.

I will attempt to explain the BrahmA principle as conscious creator acting as or within the Chitta the conscious mind in the next post at a later time.

These are just how I see it and would also be grateful if others can put it into a better form.

[Believer]

Namaste,




I deleted the post ... a simple nice story, told by a Krishna devotee after singing and playing music on a joyful Sunday feast.

It is degrading what is made of it. Have fun with brain train, but be careful that your head does not shatter.

Wishing you peace.

Pranam.

[Viraja]

Namaste,



Wishing you peace.

Pranam.

I don't think either of us (me or MDji) is screaming here! And besides, there is a conversation going on which shows at least 2 of us are interested!



It wont be the first or last time that SOME,MOST CERTAINLY NOT ALL INDIANS THAT TREAT FOREIGNERS WORSE THAN THEY TREAT DOGS IN THE STREET.


What do you know! To some Indians, foreign people with their page-length links devoid of explanations make them wiser just as foreign travels make them happier! To them it does not matter even if fellow Indians are treated like dogs, as long as foreign nationals are involved.

Pranam.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

What do you know! To some Indians, foreign people with their page-length links devoid of explanations make them wiser just as foreign travels make them happier! To them it does not matter even if fellow Indians are treated like dogs, as long as foreign nationals are involved.

Pranam.


Could you explain more please, as I am not sure what you saying


Namaste

I am certainly not screaming :) nor do I have anything against Indialover, but what he posts sometimes even if its innocent, is part of the problem and often has bad ramifications in the world. I am quite socially active also off line and meet many people from all walks of life in the street and can see how things influence people and cause division on a day t day basis. I also grew up in areas with high ethic tension, where the British government threw Irish, Jamaicans, East Indians deported from Uganda, Sikhs, Pakistanis all together in one hotspot, that was my introduction to the world and the environment I grew up in and I could tell many stories about very bad accounts of violence between all of them on a daily basis where people were brainwashed by their parents to hate everyone apart from their own people. People started waking up and getting along and then the media created all this man made concocted division again with Muslims, Throw in some old History and it again fuels all the hate and people start fighting again, often with people being killed and hospitalized and whole communities destroyed. When are people going to wake up.

I recently was at Goverdhan and in India apart from long journeys I travel by walking or hitchiking and meet and talk to people along the way and will sleep at anyones place kind enough to offer me shelter for the night, which is always plenty, I have never been robbed or attacked, I will stop and talk with anyone, rich or poor Hindu or Muslim and I met one very beautiful Muslim man, who said he fears everyday for his life, when his Father and his Hindu neighbours used to get along and help each other, now they are sharpening their knives waiting for the red light to kill every Muslim in sight. Do you really want India to become like Palestine, it wont bring back the original culture or solve any problems or change what happened in the past.

Like most the good youths in India, they want to be accepted in the international world, they dont want to give up their identity as Hindu or Muslim, they just want to be like everyone else, travel and be friends with everyone, have a nice life and enjoy, these good people are being suppressed by always bringing up old historical accounts, past is past, have some faith that these people will move things forward in a nice way positive, and brainwashing people into Nationalism, which is the first way to start a war has to stop, my experience of India is that they naturally love India, they dont need to be forced into Nationalism to love their own people, culture and country, it comes naturally.

Dont people realize that the recent attacks in Kashmir is being engineered by secret services from corrupt governments. I am sure the arms dealers made a good profit and brings that area under under stricter control with higher tensions, and its always the innocent public that pays the bills in often the harshest way. While elitist live in the their temporary sick twisted world


Due to anti West propaganda that Many Indians love to keep going on about in a very unbalanced way, often highlighting the very worst aspects of the West and then comparing it to the highest ideals of India has such a negative impact when they travel to India looking for that idealistic spirituality they often get treated like animals, thinking western people are all unclean, uncultured, all western women are like prostitutes, that they are all rich so its justifiable to rip them off for money. I meet many people from the west or hear from others complete horror stories that happen to them in india, and if it ever happens to Indians in the west there is such a fuss made, but for some reason its ok do what they hell tey like with them when they come to India, Ignorance is ignorance and its neither a western or an eastern thing.

As I said only some and certainly not all, personally for me I am used to India and can deal with all the extremes and most times have a very good experience and meet some amazing people. When I am India I live and stay much closer to native India and seldom have problems, in fact the total opposite.

Yes many Western people are often naive to Indians cultural ways, but so are other Indians to each others cultures. I met Two Tamil Yatri's dressed in Black in Ram Jhula and they left very disappointed because nobody ( locals) understood what they were doing and hardly anyone had even heard of Sri Ayyappan, and they were surprised that I knew what they were doing as fellow yatri's, and walked off thanking me but also thinking how can an westerner know more about what they are doing and sri Ayyappan more than the locals.

A lot of this division is caused online and through the media, which always seems to want cause a bigger division between east and west, when as you say most love to see international people taking interest in their culture and country. Its these extremes and the sources that I oppose, not regular people either from the east and the west.

I fell out recently with one person because for the last 2 years all he does is demonize the west and turn all the people that follow him against the West, he denied it but and said he is working towards synthesis, His history is aweful, worse than an camels and his pathetic replies saying he is working for my benefit and other westerns which was a total cop out, but even in his comments the majority of his mindless followers who have no ability to think for themselves do not ridicule the problems in the modern world which is not just coming from western sources, they personlaize it and generalise it to all western people, that has a domino effect, it maybe a few hundred that follow him dedicatedly, but that few hundred people will then influence all the people around them, add all the media hype and you left with a serious problem which has serious consequences. Which then amounts to thousands in time and ends up with SOME people in India and Indians in the West thinking that all western people are lower than animals. Where foreigners get treated very harshly and leave not such with a great picture that they had first landed, do you really want that perception of such a beautiful country. This simply has to stop and everyone needs to understand that its protagonist outside sources of common normal people both east and west that want to cause division between us and most people in all places are just simple people who want to just be happy, pay the bills and live in peace and live a relatively simple happy life.

Whats needed is positive and balanced dialogue and a greater sense of unity without all the bias and it starts with personal responsibility, my suggestion is to not read the media, not give them any notice because they dont fill people with news, they brainwash people into negativity.

The solution is very simple, be simple. Myself and people like just work towards awakening people and in the background live very simple lives and avoid extremes in materialism where everyone is treated like the donkey dangling the magic carrot on a string just to motivate them. The donkey never really gets the carrot, and even if he does it satisfies his senses for a minute amount of time before he wants another one and becomes a total slave.

Hare Krsna

[Viraja]

MD ji,

True! Many, many people are swayed by external appearances. Even in this forum, people who are sadhakas are expected by some to prove the might of their intellectual prowess everyday, sadhakas have no such instincts, in fact, they want to do the opposite, stay away and keep quiet and practice sadhana so as to get rid of this bothersome ego further more!

Ithihasa Ramayana has earned lasting fame until there are Sun and Moon on the sky. Sage Valmiki got the spark of inspiration to write this mahakavya in 1 instant when formerly he did not even know as much as to pronounce 'Rama' properly...

What started here as a simple 1 line casual reply as grown into a profound conversation. I'll inbox you with my email id. If interested, we can communicate sometimes via that medium.

I salute your seva, your wide array of experiences and your enriched soul (not to mention the sharp, witty and keen intellect).

Thanks for a great conversation! __/\__

[Viraja]

Namaste

I deleted the post ... a simple nice story, told by a Krishna devotee after singing and playing music on a joyful Sunday feast.

It is degrading what is made of it. Have fun with brain train, but be careful that your head does not shatter.

Pranam

I find this post to be so rude!

The OP said this -



Columbus heard Krishna’s flute, thus he set out to find India, to find Him.
Krishna led him astray to save His Indians from extermination.
But Krishna became curious of the West and asked Srila Prabhupada zu bring Him there

What other implication does the above make than saying in plain and simple words, that Krishna and Indians are making it to America these days..... a pure racist connotion!

And to call it, 'simple, innocent remark of a devotee of Krishna'!!

And to call people who protest the above notions with haughty exclamations......... who endows a mere poster of links with such an air of authority to ridicule others?!!!

I wonder.... may be it is time for me to stay away from this forum.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Viraja Ji,
And also I am far from perfect and have much work to do on myself. Thank you so much for your time and patience :)

its very nice what you said about quiet sadhakas, I too feel its enough of worldly issues and its time for me to increase my concentration back to more time with sadhanas, which are so beautiful and yield real results that we can share the blessings in life with each other in online communities and more importantly in real life around the ones we see day to day.

I also came from an amazing 4 month yatra in India, totally mind blowing and was so fortunate to meet so many great sadhus and lovely people and had some amazing experiences in wonderful India, they will always live my heart and I in theirs

Om Shanti

[Viraja]

......many good people do not come here because of him and its not Indialover, even good intelligent hindus with such nice insights that we are denied to hear anymore cause he bullied them so much, one who was particular close to me. And also I am far from perfect and have much work to do on myself. Thank you so much for your time and patience :)

Yes, I too have sadly watched so many innocent hearts being shot point-blank by this person. But too chicken to address it up until now. Ah, the cry for peace!

[Viraja]

I am in deep regret and I apologize for my excitement at this thread, which is supposed to be a mere funny musing on how people see things so very differently.

I realize it is not a racist connotion but just the OP revealed the beauty of creating a purpose where there was none in the first place.... it gave the opportunity to everyone to realize the hidden potential in every situation.

I deeply regret my behavior accusing IndiaLover of posting links and such. My contribution to this site, I admit, is just very minimal. After all, I have posted very simple and basic things alone.

I will observe silence until relevant people will accept my apology. I know not how to make further amends.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Viraja Ji,

I wouldnt worry to much

May it be a lesson to Indialover to mindlessly repeat things by the power of the limited external word and just copy and paste links without even thinking or going deeper to what is said and the implications it has, . Which is a product of religion and the way modern forms of education install. There are to many things that he posts that totally contradict each other. anyone can do a google search and just post the results.

The puranas are far from myths, which he wont back down from saying and is more harmful than good. In India people are slowly looking back on the culture as if these stories are not really real, and intellectuals are trying to make them to empirical, these are both outside Influences, and its far from a culture where every Mother wanted their sons to be Like Raja Ram, and the average illiterate are natural Vedantists, all of this profound knowledge is actually very very simple, sometimes far to simple for many to grasp.

Obviously things have to move with the times but to include things that lay damage right at the heart of dharma and the whole natural psyche of a nation, has to be stood up against or explained in the right way, Indialover is not open to either if he post these things.

If he is sincere enough he will take it as a lesson and learn and grow, if he is stuck then he wont change and will just defend his comments, and will only react angrily to defend wrong concepts.

Unfortunately ISKCON is being used by and polluted by to much Christian theology, there are those that are innocently conditioned by their upbringing, which is where the real appeal is directed and are victims which is why most of them felt so dissatisfied with that type of upbringing and are now confused in Krsna consciousness, and those who will purposely manipulate those sentiments and keep that same theology going to keep up external control and people in confusion, these things are real.

Gaudiya Vaishnava Bhakti is just so profound and so beautiful if its discovered in its original form, it doesnt need these debilitating and limiting conditions to be made into dogmas. The original intent by the wise and enlightened rishis of Bengal used the vaishnava model because it can synthesis the sentiments of the Christian religion and align that with Bhakti, and Vaishnavas lay more emphasis on Bhakti, the founder of this system was Bhaktivinoda Thakur, He was a Shakta, not different to Shiva, maybe only natives understand whats between the lines here. Sri Chaitanya was also initiated in Adi Shankaras Math ( math as in adhikara which is the original meaning,not an institution)and his mood was synthesis, harmony, unity in diversity, that was his shakti.

These things have to be slowly rooted out and the sincere will slowly give up their previous conditioning and just concentrate on sadhana and the others will try to keep pushing Christian Monotheistic man made dogmas to further keep people stuck in-outward perception that makes them more easy to control. These are very real matters, that have inhibited and suppressed Western Civilisation and is a major threat to the eastern more well preserved traditions, and are naturally more introspective. And there are more waiting for this but are trapped in fear, many devotees were formally in bliss and now in deep negative mental states, because after a certain amount of time the two things dont mix at all , Krsna Consciousness is about improving the quality of universal spirituality and removing all the negative attributes in man made forceful religions and materialism. This in the long term will improve all cultures and gradually shift the power back to the people who all inherently know how to survive and live, rather than be conditioned by institutionalisation, being controlled by external man made forces and systems. The second diseases and probable one of more importance to address is being controlled by governments, politicians and global materialism.

We need more brave balanced people to root these things out, even face things about our own race and cultures due to being more on the bodily and external appearance only, which are ultimately damaging. We live in a very open international world and are more interdependent in this regard than we ever was before. This knowledge is not based upon the body, even the word jiva has nothing to do with the body, jiva is the sense and mind dynamic.

like i read some comments that Modi is even showing support for backward illiterates and dalits, what a way to talk about the majority of people and often the minority in terms of learning Modern Education or being gross materialist and mundane intellectuals subconsciously promote western values which they are supposed to be against, these so called backward illiterates, dalits and sudras are still the heart of the country and know the true essence of the culture. Let me tell these so called middle class media driven intellectuals, these backward and dalit people are much closer to shiva than most, and these media driven fanatics are the biggest threat to the sanatana dharma culture and but have no self awareness. For my comments in this regard I will never apologise or feel bad, maybe only the way it comes across.


So dont feel bad, you just got caught in the crossfire :)

If Indialover wants to take this any further, let him talk from his own insights, according with siddhanta without relying on external quotes to do the thinking for him. Otherwise lets give it time to digest, which maybe be better. I am more open to personal insights.

Hare Krsna

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Yes, I too have sadly watched so many innocent hearts being shot point-blank by this person. But too chicken to address it up until now. Ah, the cry for peace!

i really do wish this person will enter an open debate with me, I will be fair and objective, so I can easily point to him that he is actually promoting Hinduism which is killing sanatana dharma, but I fear that all he can do is get quotes from the BBC and India Times, and all his so called intellect is just superficial and brainwashed, his wallet can only get him so far in life, then the elements separate from consciousness and he will be left alone to face up to things

But I am here waiting for him to back up what he thinks he knows in an open debate, I already gave him one chance, but it seems he prefers to do a drive by shoot in and then hide, its him that is the chicken not you, sorry to offend any chickens, they are more useful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYxOWgjhygM

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Viraja Ji,



Ithihasa Ramayana has earned lasting fame until there are Sun and Moon on the sky. Sage Valmiki got the spark of inspiration to write this mahakavya in 1 instant when formerly he did not even know as much as to pronounce 'Rama' properly.

This is such an important point, while its good to learn and memorise the good parts in bhajans, texts and other good sources, the actual method is very simple and we can learn everything we need to know even if we dont build up that type of learning or have the memory power. We dont pass the real tests in life by having outward education exams with a couple of hours to answer questions on texts, in fact it can be a major hindrance or a complete waste of time if approached solely in that way.

Often times, people are judged if they dont know sanskrit, or the right etymology of sanskrit, or know all the pastimes in ramayana, mahabharata and the others texts, or they are not born in to a brahmin family or a particular part of the world, or some even think born in a womens body is a disqualification. Devotees/sadhakas/practitioners/from heart maybe be outwardly not perfect but non of these are disqualifications for higher knowledge ~ brahmjnana, which cools the heart and opens up the simplicity of profoundness , all it requires is inner sincerity, unwavering devotion, purity of mind, not in a moralistic way but with genuine desire to be connected to a higher source. When that connection happens something else opens up in the citta~chitta conscious mind centre, and then understanding comes and even if one reads just small amounts of the texts it has enough ahara shakti that it fills one chitta, conscious mind centre with divyajnana divine awareness.

The aggi-vacchagotta sutta is very important, its not a religious buddhism text, its the essence that Brahma cannot be approached by intelllect and speculation, or the dristi~ sight in general, because its beyond dristii and brahma is not an object. I discovered that Aham Brahmasmi is not to realize any particular thing as a soul or as an object Aham in ancient vak was not limited to individual, and Brahmasmi was way, a principle a true code of being, not something to realise on the outside but the deepest interior of ones being which is not different from that which is the deepest essence and being residing in all created forms but has no form that is created.

Even if one has the natural quality to study it will not bear fruit unless there is active chitta~citta bhavana, culturing the citta through ways give by the previous enlightened, who in real life are very simple hearted and just want to serve, shraddha or faith is not an outward perception but a curing of the heart centre, thats why its sometimes so simple that it often gets missed.

Outside of all the worldly concerns where we try to fight for justice, freedom and equality, the inner essence is simplicity, being simple and then the profound opens by its own means, the grips that bond us in the outer nature become lessened, there is more internal space and freedom, doesnt matter if one is rich or poor, educated with letters or numbers. This is the inner essence that many externalist are just not aware of, if one then opens this simple way then everything becomes profound.

Most the sanskrit texts are not usually written by the people who had the realisations of the divine, they were not even spoken always in whats classical sanskirt, they are realised in sandhya or sandhi, avadhutas are often backwards like jad bharata, apparently Paramhamsa Nityananda who was an avadhuta would speak and nobody wold understand what he said immediately, he was absorbed in the middle way~madhyamika in Buddhi, which is not the empirical intellect, it cant be communicated through the usual methods of empirical expression and can often take a long time to be translated and only done by qualified devotees that these people inspire. The methods also to reach these states are also quite simple, the simplicity is often ignored or seen as to simple and claim it cant be that simple.

There is one nice story of Ajahn Chah when he came to England, he addressed the English and said that many of you are very intelligent but also quite complicated, if I was in Thailand my message to Thais is very simple, I always remind them to just keep letting go, but in England the people want very intellectual and complex ways to explain the Buddhist way, so I came here to give you Ajahn Sumedho ( an American Monk ) ..... :) whose teachings are actually very profound, he plays an important role for many at deconditioning the conceptual mind, his retreats are very good, although he spend most his time now in Thailand and is a very well respected and a great human being.

There is a beautiful story about Shantidev who slept and ate all day, would not take part in the studies or the outward practices and was ridiculed for years by the externalists, and his guru knew his was liberated, the others wanted him out, he was then given the challenge to prove his worth or get out, and he spoke the way of the bodhisattva which remains a classic and a true guide for chittabhavana.

Sri Chaitanya once saw a brahmin reading Bhagavad Gita upside down and was always in tears and he approached him to ask why he was crying reading it upside down, and he replied that when he saw Bhagavan Krsna being the driver of Arjuna's chariot it made him weep with love for Krsna. These are not ordinary sentiments by backward illiterates that these mundane intellectuals seem to want to say, these are the jewels of this culture, not these outward judging materialists who are corrupted by mass of information and false certificates with silly letters after their names.

Jai Sri Krsna

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste

Stumbled upon this morning, which seems to capitulate some of the points mentioned above and throw a bit more light on the subject, by Dr David Frawley, above mosts budget unfortunately, but if one only opens their eyes by karuna within sadhana , true heart opens without sentiment and over identification of bodily consciousness, it becomes clearly obvious whats going on.

A short history lesson. When the Monotheistic Materialists were plotting global rule,as the saying goes, all roads lead to Rome. Christopher Columbus was given the western regions and India was preserved for the British rulers ( which were not always British), its a elitists regime, it was part of a bigger plan.

If one knows anything about ancient Maps these geographical locations were already known via age old trading routes.

https://www.amazon.in/Arise-Arjuna-Hinduism-Resurgent-Century-ebook/dp/B07JFZY8LJ/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid&sr&fbclid=IwAR0FSEZxkVlF5jvAtj0A7e0NIOPZnpHJhvbSGZ6NUjs66N3sQTOGfJSeaQw

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Double post deleted.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Jaynarayan

All what happens in the universe is the will of the Almighty … Krishna.

Krishna says in Bhagaved Gita

10.34: I am the all-devouring Death, and I am the origin of those things that are yet to be. Amongst feminine qualities I am fame, prosperity, fine speech, memory, intelligence, courage, and forgiveness.

11.32: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist.

11.33: Therefore, arise and attain honor! Conquer your foes and enjoy prosperous rulership. These warriors stand already slain by Me, and you will only be an instrument of My work, O expert archer.

BG 11.34: Dronacharya, Bhishma, Jayadratha, Karna, and other brave warriors have already been killed by Me. So slay them without being disturbed.

Arjuna was His instrument … why should not Columbus have been His instrument alike? His next instrument was Prabhupada. At the end we are all His instruments in His marvelous cosmic play, only allowed to see the manifest part, not allowed to see behind the curtain.

BG 2.28: O scion of Bharat, all created beings are unmanifest before birth, manifest in life, and again unmanifest on death. So why grieve?

Thus do not grieve too. All is right the way it is.

Pranam

Sri Krsna has nothing to with the mundane religious teaching of Church based Christianity and their theological preaching and converting. There is practically no relation to the man made idea of this almighty God, to the inner discovery of Ishvara and Bhagavan, practically no alignment at all, only via some diplomacy in language and basic concepts of a Supreme Being.

His iccha is not that of willing evil or the savage acts of columbus, who was gold greedy to fund more invasions of Christian based rule, across the Globe, who have been massacring and destroying all naturally arsing forms of spirituality around the world, where if their views are challenged go into uncontrolled fits if there mundane sentimental ideas are not accepted, no strength of mind or logic and concentration powers of a goldfish :)

Krsna consciousness does not support war and crime.

Sri Krsna is Bhagavan, The word bhagavān is explained thus by Parāśara Muni: One who is full in six opulences, who has full strength, full fame, wealth, knowledge, beauty and renunciation, is Bhagavān

Bhagavān is non different to Ishwara, Ishwara is vishwarupa

vi~inner
isha~saguna Brahman with all divine opulence and attributes of Bhagavan
Rupa~ His divine form

He rules the inner cosmos and empowers his devotees to go against man made religions, and intellectual ideas based on bodily concepts and desires, materialistic politics, distortion in the scientific enquiry and Christianity who model their faith on a human being battered and nailed to a cross, what about all the wood, think of all the trees :), and forced belief and emotional control based on fear, and is a warring religion, based on principles of Jihad, this has nothing to do with Krsna Consciousness. As Srila Prabhupada said, Christianity has failed the people, and him and other sadhus have offered a way out, to keep holding onto that former man made theology is detrimental both to ones own sadhana and a disruption in the dharma traditions, which are many as we can see from all the translated divisions, which again are based on not accepting the Monotheistic Godhead Ruler of the Universe, and have doe untold damage to communities up to this present day.

There is not one naturally occurring recognised Christian sadhu anywhere in Asia, they are all imported, or self installed.

Sure there is some attempt at synthesis, but due to veda being the nature of brahmavada, which can take a form for a limited amount or time and then grow out of that from, to something greater more expansive, common synthesis is supposed to expand and shatter all man made ideas, such as Christianity, and there mundane morality and beliefs, such as all evil is somehow connected and controlled by the divinities of the dharma traditions., this simple does not apply.

Cultural baggage" is an important contaminant to be aware of

Practically all Church based ideology is man made, mind is full of desires, even the concept of charity is a system of control and part invasion policy to establish rule, same as sin is to pap, to hold someone under sin is to control their emotions, Sant as saint, to quote a perfect example from Thomas Merton

Even saints cannot live with saints on this earth without some anguish.” ~ Thomas Merton refering to the killing of previous sadhus by Christian missionaries, real sadhus can live in total harmony with other real sadhus.

Kirpa (Grace) Narak (hell) Swarga (heaven) do not hold the same meaning in the dharma traditions as they do with man made oppressive religions such a Christianity

citta the main central particle of consciousness is whats bound and overcome by desires, ravana man made desires steal citta for his own pleasure. Raja Ram is not controlling this, Ravana did shiva puja for his own desires, there are many hidden tattvas in this, that apply today to mans use of religion for worldly powers. Citta is the minute atom molecule more subtle by a billion times of any physical property, thats a very large difference measurement, inconceivable, but also has much more power, because it breaks dependency on outside phenomenon, Christian Religion breeds outside dependency, prayer to an outside force is also not much mentioned in any shastra. Arjuna goes within, not without to seek Sri Krsna, who is antariyami, inner controller as paramatma.

So to say all is good in the outside world is not a dharmic thought. If one agrees or not is just subjective perception and will have little to do with the rishis of the Upanishads and all the naturally arising dharma sadhus

Basically Church based Christianity is a plague.

Hare Krsna