hare krishna mahamantra

[jopmala]

Pranam

Nam sankirtan is considered as the basic part of gaudiya vaishnab tradition. shri chaitanya mahaprabhu also emphasized the importance of nam sankartan in the spiritual life of a gaudiya vaishnab follower. shri chaitanya charitamrita is one the basic gaudiya vaishnab scriptures which speaks the path of vaishnabism preached by shri chaitanya mahaprabhu. presently it is seen that every sect of gaudiya vaishnab tradition talks about importance of hare krishna maha mantra which is said to have considered the only mantra for japa but to my utter surprise, I have not found a single word about hare krishna mahamantra in the pages of chaitanya charitamrita. I am confused to think that how a grantha like chaitanya charitamrita can skip hare krishna mahamantra. the vaishnaba of that period used to do nam sankirtan with hari haraye namah krishna jadavaya namah as found in the chaitany charitamrita. therefore could any one enlighten me why chaitanya charitamrita does not mention about hare krishna mahamantra for nam sankirtan.

[Indialover]

Namaste Jopmala

According to my knowledge, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu recommended the chanting of the name of Krishna (the mantra you mentioned contains Hari and Krishna - hari haraye namah krishna jadavaya namah) but he is not the propagator of the Mahamantra. It is customary, that various works and deeds are attributed to saints.

Let me show just one example - CC Ādi 17.22

kali-kāle nāma-rūpe kṛṣṇa-avatāra
nāma haite haya sarva-jagat-nistāra

Synonyms
kali (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=kali)-kāle (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=kāle) — in this Age of Kali; nāma (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=nāma)-rūpe (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=rūpe) — in the form of the holy name; kṛṣṇa (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=kṛṣṇa) — Lord Kṛṣṇa; avatāra (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=avatāra) — incarnation; nāma (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=nāma) — holy name; haite (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=haite) — from; haya (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=haya) — becomes; sarva (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=sarva) — all; jagat (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=jagat) — of the world; nistāra (https://vedabase.io/en/search/synonyms/?original=nistāra) — deliverance.

Translation
In this Age of Kali, the holy name of the Lord, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, is the incarnation of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Simply by chanting the holy name, one associates with the Lord directly. Anyone who does this is certainly delivered.

The original text contains ‚the holy name‘ and ‚Krishna‘.
In the translation ‚Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra‘ is added.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/cc/adi/17/22/
(https://vedabase.io/en/library/cc/adi/17/22/)
Kali Santarana Upanishad is considered the source. To me it is questionalbe how authentic this Upanishad is, seeming more like a Purana. And it is written 500 AD. The Upanishads are originated BC.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ZOc8b_ZHylU2pDemp0ZFhSTU9iRnlLSGZjZ1RXZw/view
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ZOc8b_ZHylU2pDemp0ZFhSTU9iRnlLSGZjZ1RXZw/view)
In my opinion the source of the Mahamantra is unknown.

Pranam

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Hare Krsna

As far as I know the Hare Krsna mantra was first used by one baba ji in Jaganatha Puri, i did find some reference to it but didnt post anything. As far as I know there is controversy around its acceptance, and something about Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur getting involved.

Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu only really left Sri Siksastakam behind as his teaching in there it says

namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-shaktis
tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah
etadrishi tava kripa bhagavan mamapi
durdaivam idrisham ihajani nanuragaha

I will leave a link at the end that takes a deeper look into Sri Siksastakam

when he walked around India he just encouraged everyone to chant hari bol, this is far reaching and not limited to one mantra only, he didnt convert anyone or stop them doing what was already within their tradition. Sankirtan movement in Sri Chaitanya's time in Bengal was a reaction to Moghal rules on how they practised.

Validity of the mantra from texts is from Kalisantaraṇopaniṣad, which according to online sources is a Vaishnava Upanishad, i cant be bothered to do more research.

As far as I know the main Mahamantra is Omkara, this is much more universally accepted around India, Srila Prabhupada said that Hare Krsna Mahamantra is equivalent.

Sankirtan is Turiya manifesting into the waking mind and sense consciousness, mostly mind and sense consciousness is covered by avidya, anyone can take part but usually its a group thing or something thats within public hearing, Kali yuga which is a state not a linear time phase is best suited for this state of consciousness to start with, any verbal external chanting alone or with others is helpful to control wandering mind and senses, one can transcend this more easily by external repetition because mind and senses are hard to control and this method of chanting and dancing and glorification of hari nam is the easiest and anyone can do it, one doesnt need to be from any gotra its available to everyone, so even outcastes ( whatever that means ) can take part, even a dog can take part as Srila Prabhupada said, but dogs are jnanis and carrier of Bhairava.

Meditation is automatic so thats not a practice, one will only sleep or just be caught in endless thoughts if that is imitated and karma khanda is reduced to doing business in kali yuga. So easiest way is sankirtana and chanting is very nice, sutra chanting and recitation of texts in ancient times is known as citta bhavana, which is the same as practising Bhakti yoga, so it doesnt matter what mantra one chants, they all stem from same source and have same power, if its given in shakipat then it will have more power, but at some point it has to go inwards to the subtle then one transcends kali yuga, even in this one life span, one can still engage in sankirtana even if one is not in kali yuga. As far as the hare krsna mahamantra being the identity of the gaudia Vaisnavism thats not exactly true, in Bengal, Vrndavana and Odisha many devotees of Sri Chaitanya dont even do so much japa, they may just sing bhajan all day and not always sing hare krsna, but due it being popularized they sing it, whats the problem, it has krsna name in it so its all good hare is shakti so if they want then its ok, Mahamantra is not limited to Hare Krsna Mahamantra, this is mistake that the preaching movement has made.

Why Srila Prabhupada and the line linking with Bhativinode Thakur spread Hare Krsna Mahamantra is because its simple, and people with no background on veda and vedanta can simple chant and its enough to bring ones consciousness out of Kali Yuga, or at least its supposed to :)

https://caitanyasympos.proboards.com/thread/680/caitanyas-shikshashtakam?fbclid=IwAR1n8U648iu8x12uGPD-MLXi07qIfAp8k3t4FAevj6fOTAgdsrVA_SALcrc

[jopmala]

Pranam


Indialover thank you for your comment. I agree with you that mahaprabhu is not the propagator of hare Krishna maha mantra. To me, chaitanya mahaprabhu has established that nama sankirtan is the only way for kaliyug but those who claims to have followed gaudiya vaishnabism of chaitanya mahaprabhu’s line preaches that hare Krishna hare ram which is regarded as mahamantra has been suggested by mahaprabhu for sankirtan . but the fact is that neither mahaprabhu nor any of his parikars or bhaktas of his time used hare Krishna maha mantra for chanting or sankirtan. Instead in their sankirtan they used to sing “hari haraye namah Krishna jadabay namah” which is evident from shri chaitanya charitamrita.

I would like to share with you that in the kalisantaran upanished we get the verse as “ hare ram hare ram ram ram hare hare// hare Krishna hare Krishna Krishna Krishna hare hare” but now a days the mantra is chanted as “ hare Krishna hare Krishna Krishna Krishna hare hare // hare ram hare ram ram ram hare hare” the original first line becomes second and original second line becomes first. I do not find the reason behind this change.

One more point I disagree with you is that the verse you mentioned says “ kali kale nama rupe krishna avatara”. I think this nama does not necessarily mean hare Krishna mahamantra . I reiterate that hare Krishna maha mantra does not find its place in the chaitranya charitamrita which implies that this mahamantra was not so popular till the grantha was written by krishnadas kabiraj as it is now.

[jopmala]

Pranam markandeya 108 dasa


Thank you for your post. I do agree with you. One more point I would like to share with you . As you know right from bhakti vinod thakur to prabhupad and all their branches are dead against fish eating. In the other day I was reading the book written by das narottam “ brihat bhakti tattva sar”, in the chapter pashanda dalan quoting from padma purana he says “ stri sangi toil gaya, matsya Jodi khaya// tathapi vaishnabattva tar kobhu nahi jaya” . that means even if one eats fish, he does loss his vainabattva . in other way vaishnab can eat fish without any fear. We see prabhupada and his followers quotes from das narottam’s writings but I am surprised to find how they miss this important issue.

[Indialover]

... that the verse you mentioned says “ kali kale nama rupe krishna avatara”. I think this nama does not necessarily mean hare Krishna mahamantra . I reiterate that hare Krishna maha mantra does not find its place in the chaitranya charitamrita ...

That’s exactly what I wrote, jopmala, the translator did not stick to the original verse.

The original text contains ‚the holy name‘ and ‚Krishna‘.

In the translation ‚Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra‘ is added.

Pranam

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Pranam markandeya 108 dasa


Thank you for your post. I do agree with you. One more point I would like to share with you . As you know right from bhakti vinod thakur to prabhupad and all their branches are dead against fish eating. In the other day I was reading the book written by das narottam “ brihat bhakti tattva sar”, in the chapter pashanda dalan quoting from padma purana he says “ stri sangi toil gaya, matsya Jodi khaya// tathapi vaishnabattva tar kobhu nahi jaya” . that means even if one eats fish, he does loss his vainabattva . in other way vaishnab can eat fish without any fear. We see prabhupada and his followers quotes from das narottam’s writings but I am surprised to find how they miss this important issue.


hare Krsna jopmala

The king of Manipur was the first to introduce gaudiya vaishnava practice to Manipur in the line of narottam das thakur

it is not uncommon for gaudiya vaishnava there to eat fish

however this was a few hundred years ago and the market situation and trade is now very different, before diet was based on living off the land, now it’s part of a mass economy draining the natural resources

In certain rural and coast lines they may have to depend on that diet for survival and for that I can’t see what’s wrong with it unless they are supposed to starve as they may have less choice

srila Prabhupada spoke out against slaughter houses

Gaudia math is an ashram based society which offers all bhoga to guru and murti so I wonder if there is anything said about meat fish or eggs being offered in that the way for prasadam

so some discretion is needed to find the right balance

hare krsna

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Indialover


Kali Santarana Upanishad is considered the source. To me it is questionalbe how authentic this Upanishad is, seeming more like a Purana. And it is written 500 AD. The Upanishads are originated BC.


i wouldn’t be to concerned about dates as they are manufactured to fit into colonialism and their interpretations. vedas upanishads and the rest have very little to do with dates, they are all traced back to rishis whose origins are beyond linear timelines

hare krsna

[jopmala]

hare Krsna jopmala

The king of Manipur was the first to introduce gaudiya vaishnava practice to Manipur in the line of narottam das thakur

it is not uncommon for gaudiya vaishnava there to eat fish

however this was a few hundred years ago and the market situation and trade is now very different, before diet was based on living off the land, now it’s part of a mass economy draining the natural resources

In certain rural and coast lines they may have to depend on that diet for survival and for that I can’t see what’s wrong with it unless they are supposed to starve as they may have less choice

srila Prabhupada spoke out against slaughter houses

Gaudia math is an ashram based society which offers all bhoga to guru and murti so I wonder if there is anything said about meat fish or eggs being offered in that the way for prasadam

so some discretion is needed to find the right balance

hare krsna

Hare Krishna markandeya 108 dasa


I shall comment on last two lines only. Yes every sect has its discretion to decide ‘Dos’ and ‘Donts’ for its followers but from the point of view of day to day life and food habit, some ashram based societies like ram Krishna mission or bharat sebashram sangha and many others maintain a difference between the followers who are staying in their own house ( Grihi) and who are staying in the ashram itself. However, those staying in the ashram have to eat veg. such difference can not be seen in gaudiya math followers. the first and foremost condition of initiation ( diksha) in gaudiya math is ‘ ban on fish eating’ irrespective of where one staying , have no choice and they can not tolerate those who eat fish. I think Narottam Das thakur is a big name in the gaudiya vaishnab family and if he declares that one does not lose his vaishnabatta if he eats fish, it definitely bears some weight and should have been given due respect. Regarding rest of your post , I am with you.

[Indialover]

Namaste Markadeya 108 dasa

… they are all traced back to rishis whose origins are beyond linear timelines.

Definitely, but we cannot rule out subjective and ideological adjustments over the centuries, especially in translated Upanishads. Discussions between Brahma and Narada just make me question authenticity … Upanishads talk about Brahman and if they mention a Creator it is Prajapati.

* * * * *

Namaste jopmala

Why should killing a chicken be different from killing a fish? Both are animals, creatures who feel pain. I was already confronted with the differentiation in childhood when on Good Friday meat was not allowed, but fish.

There are vegetarians who refrain from meat, but eat fish. One can be vegetarian for health or ethical reasons. The ethical reason cannot exclude fish. Apart from exceptions, Markandeya mentioned … nowadays we do not eat animals to survive, but to satisfay the tounge. To reconsider centuries-old rules is not against the authority of whoever set it up that time.

Pranam

[Shantanu]

A fundamental concept is ahimsa or non-violence. It is the core of Hindu religion and philosophy and central to Sanatan Dharma. Any compromise that a person makes is purely self-serving and negates the Hindu tradition in its entirety.

So killing even a blood sucking mosquito is not permitted by the eternal religion that I subscribe to as part of the Yamas and Niyamas of Yogashastras.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Indialover

translation will always be a problem. The upanishads are ancient or timeless and the rishis do not always speak on Sanskrit they have cosmic languages and it’s brought down into phonetic grammatical order. What it’s describing is supramental states of consciousness they are mapping out cosmic being which ultimately has direct perception of the ultimate reality Brahman or pure consciousness. I tend to agree more with mahasiddha Sri Aurobindo where he says that the consciousness of rishis is in another time and we don’t have the right faculties to understand them, these parts of time and cosmology according to states of conscious being is very much underdeveloped in translations.

BrahmA as prajapati is when BrahmA is in the state of perfection, brahmA has 4 states of being so depending on the state or level in which BrahmA is in will fit the context of that particular portion of the texts. Conversations between beings such as narada muni and others with fit into states of consciousness accordingly

At least we can gain some insights into what is BrahmA as part of mind consciousness which is in 4 stages of development leading to full transcendent liberated stage

baka BrahmA is when the individual in state of illusion thinks his mortal existence is permanent

BrahmAsahampati is when that state is transcended and he identifies his being in universal consciousness

BrahmAsanatkumar decent of Brahman in Nama and Rupa

MahaBrahmA where mind is non different to paramatama or perfection of mind

so mind has an evolutionary stage of progressing which the texts describe and map out

if we can introspectively follow texts in this way then we closer to understanding the core of the upanishad

hare krsna

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Dandavat Pranam jopmala prabhu

The main problem is the conditioned jiva will always justify his actions one way or another so if an Acharya says doing such and such is ok then it becomes an excuse not to change or develop ones own consciousness

what Srila Narottama dasa Thakur said on his environment 500 years ago cannot always be taken literally and applied to every situation, it may well apply even today in some circumstances but not in others so there is more a need for the sayings and guidance of self realised brings to be applied accordingly with wisdom and not with religious dogma or false morality which only enslaves one to unconsciousness.

Gaudia vaishnava tradition mostly follows the six goswami with rupanuga Bhakti or rasa bhava as the main lineage with full integration intertwining other vaishnava bhajans into its fold without conflict.

hare Krsna

[timetraveler]

However Iskcon stays separate.

Prabhupada said, of his godbrothers, 'never disrespect then, but don't associate with them.'

Indeed not disreslecting others is central to Gaudiya phosophy,

Which is based on being humble.

However, some mix it up and fail, and attack others instead..

It's far from the path, though,

As Caitanya said 'The Bhagavatam says not to blame or praise others -- but of these two, the first is more important.'

Now he's just saying, it's much more important not to disparage others, however also should not praise people.

He said, 'Essential truth, cocncisely spoken, is true eloquence.'

We can find that at times many opposite things are there. From all these.

And in such cases much pain arises.... i.e., much abuse, attack, etc.

It can be useful to look at qualities of devotees.


Anyway the thing is very simple.

Making it complicated always results in downfall.

[jopmala]

A fundamental concept is ahimsa or non-violence. It is the core of Hindu religion and philosophy and central to Sanatan Dharma. Any compromise that a person makes is purely self-serving and negates the Hindu tradition in its entirety.

So killing even a blood sucking mosquito is not permitted by the eternal religion that I subscribe to as part of the Yamas and Niyamas of Yogashastras.

Pranam shantanu

You are right that non violence is a fundamental concept of sanatan hindu dharma. But what is non violence ? in the kurukshetra battle, shri Krishna tries to motivate arjuna by saying ‘fight’ again and again , does it mean violence ? when arjuna killed thousands and thousands of kourava armymen in the kurukshetra battle getting motivated by bhagavan shri krishna’s advice in the form of Gita, was it a violence or non violence ? even shri Krishna swayam killed sishupal, was it violence or non violence ? I want to remind you that another fundamental concept of sanatan hindu dharma is that every action is done by swayam bhagavan . In the Gita , verse 33 of chapter 11, shri Krishna is saying to arjuna that he( arjuna) is only occasion and enemies are already killed by him ( shri Krishna). So what is violence here ? paap comes to us only when we consider ourselves doing everything . shri krishna says in Gita verse 55 of chapter 11 “ he who works for me bears enmity to none”. So we suffer because we claim but the fact of the matter is we have no locus to put our claim since we can not do anything without his( shri Krishna) will and so violence non violence all comes from him and finishes there too. Neither you can kill a mosquito nor you can let it to live without his will so how violence or non violence matters to us. We do when he wants only . this is also a basic concept of sanatan hindu dharma.

[timetraveler]

I think most will disagree with you.

I believe in ahimsa -- as soon as you put yourself in the place of another, it's impossible to hurt them.

Even mosquito I would not kill to the best of my ability.

Why a small creature it's okay to harm?

To me such action is hellish.

And to feel love for all -- this is heaven


Sarva Mangalam, may all be happy.

So this is Dharma..

Satyam, Ahimsa, Shanti, so forth.


"To kill in the name of peace" is quite a mistake.

It just causes pain and suffering.


If you think, someone made a mistake so they deserve it. Try to understand we share responsibility for each other.

If you want to see God.

Otherwise, it never will happen.

[Indialover]

Namaste jopmala

Arjuna is a Kshatriya, his dharma is to fight.

Shishupala was Jaya, one of Vishnu’s doorkeepers. Both were cursed and had the choice to have seven births as His bhaktas or three births as His enemies that He will kill. Both chose the latter, to be not too long separated from Vishnu. The death of Shishupala was a necessary result of the Jaya/Vijaya story. Vijaya was Dantavakra, who was also killed by Krishna. This was the last birth, both went back to Vaikuntha and were doorkeepers again.

I agree fully with you, that in this world nothing happens without His will. I am also sure, that the suffering of all animals in this world happens according to His will. But I think, we have, depending on consciousness, a free will to participate by consuming animals and products made of animals.

We will find for all we do a suitable verse in the scriptures, because all we do is right and all is right as it is.

Pranam

[jopmala]

Namaste jopmala

Arjuna is a Kshatriya, his dharma is to fight.

Shishupala was Jaya, one of Vishnu’s doorkeepers. Both were cursed and had the choice to have seven births as His bhaktas or three births as His enemies that He will kill. Both chose the latter, to be not too long separated from Vishnu. The death of Shishupala was a necessary result of the Jaya/Vijaya story. Vijaya was Dantavakra, who was also killed by Krishna. This was the last birth, both went back to Vaikuntha and were doorkeepers again.

I agree fully with you, that in this world nothing happens without His will. I am also sure, that the suffering of all animals in this world happens according to His will. But I think, we have, depending on consciousness, a free will to participate by consuming animals and products made of animals.

We will find for all we do a suitable verse in the scriptures, because all we do is right and all is right as it is.

Pranam


namaste indialover

Every living entity has its own story behind every birth. We know about sishupal’s previous birth but we do not know every one’s . so whenever I tend to kill a mosquito , its bhagavan who is getting his job done. He himself killed sishupal and he got his job done through arjuna also. Are you arguing that some killing is not violence and some are violence ? if you argue that any type of killing is an act of himsa then you have to accept that the killing of shishupal by shri Krishna is also an act of himsa. Since we eat rice atta, vegitables the farmer has to kill the plants and get ready with food that we need. Is it not himsa ? in the eyes of bhagavan, both animal and plant has equal status since both are living entities. If killing of plants and animals for the purpose of food is considered himsa, then how will a bhakta survive? From the point of view of living creatures, you can not treat animal and plant differently. I think if I want to consume animal or plant it is HIS WILL and if I don’t want it is also HIS WILL since I can not move an inch without HIS WILL. That is the point I want to make here. Probably the followers of Gaudiya math and mission make a difference between plant and animal when they forbid to take fish but they themselves living on vegetables of living plants. I have found nowhere that chaitanya mahaprabhu has said anything regarding what to eat and what not . we are servant we can not decide what owner wants us to do.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

There are many indigenous regions that do not have a lot of choices in what they eat due to either climate and budget

middle and upper class and people with supermarkets and abundance of choice live in a privileged state where they are often unconscious of others conditions that they are faced with on a day to day basis just to survive

to enforce privileged ideology onto them with suppressive morality is inhumane most people can’t see beyond of their limited self righteous nose and what really causes suffering in then world

will c19 cause such an economic crash were the privledged start to panic and show their greed and rush to the shops And and hoard and fight each other

what happens when survival instincts set in when real hunger hits the belly and Holland and bharat is closed ( a popular health food store)

when vegans cant buy coconut oil and super foods in nice packaging

where basket cases will be forced out of their holes and faced with the reality of mitryaloka

will they then be so self righteous

will they know how to serve be selfless share and be a real spiritual warrior in the face of extreme
Conditions

will chanting then become more important than diet will surrender be more vital than the next meal

Only time and real tests in life will tell

hare Rama

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-australia-51903149/australian-man-charged-over-supermarket-assault

[gopal]

namaste
nam sankirtan envolves nam aparadh ( name crime ) in case of new comers so what the excuse then ?

[timetraveler]

Namaste Gopal
Yes, excellent point.

There are two important things to keep in mind, - not committing sins on the strength of the Holy Name, and not preaching to the faithless.

I.e., if someone has not faith, we should not preach to them,...

And it's also not okay to do anything we wish.

One place we can always look for answers is the Bhagavatam.. for instance Prahlada Maharaja.

Bhagavatam is full of wisdom for many questions asked here (for example as to why is not okay to harm even insects.)

[markandeya 108 dasa]

A fundamental concept is ahimsa or non-violence. It is the core of Hindu religion and philosophy and central to Sanatan Dharma. Any compromise that a person makes is purely self-serving and negates the Hindu tradition in its entirety.

So killing even a blood sucking mosquito is not permitted by the eternal religion that I subscribe to as part of the Yamas and Niyamas of Yogashastras.

there can be compromises but it depends upon kala desha pata

not all places have the luxury to choose their diets in Tibet they live in harsh conditions where it’s almost impossible to grow food also on many costal regions they can’t grow or farm so have to survive on fish

in inner city slums where people have no money they rely on poultry, what do you suggest for these people do you suggest they starve and die or maybe they should be punished

its very easy to dictate if ones own personal circumstances are secure although now with. C19 that paper thin security is under threat and people are thrown into panic and desperation

Do you eat rice grains vegetables if so then you are responsible for the mass killing of insects that live in the ground

do you drive a car catch the bus or train again if yes you are responsible for the killing of many living beings

who is to say that a vegetable is less or more than an an insect so what does Ahimsa mean

myself I am a vegan and I have set up free food distribution programmes and actively promote ahimsa diets but I think that many vegans are very fanatical and self righteous

on the banks of ganga poor people who have no money no job can’t pay for education they fish and thank the divine mother for sustenances and giving them life there consciousness is with the mother Ganga

many vegans and vegetarians have much more negative impact on the environment in modern society with sophisticated meals so who has more ahimsa who is more grateful to mata

I can give countless examples that kala desha pata with wisdom is more higher practice which may involve even cutting off someone’s head or hanging as an act of ahimsa and false moral religious principles act more as emotional himsa

siya rama

[jopmala]

Namaste Gopal
Yes, excellent point.

There are two important things to keep in mind, - not committing sins on the strength of the Holy Name, and not preaching to the faithless.

I.e., if someone has not faith, we should not preach to them,...

And it's also not okay to do anything we wish.

One place we can always look for answers is the Bhagavatam.. for instance Prahlada Maharaja.

Bhagavatam is full of wisdom for many questions asked here (for example as to why is not okay to harm even insects.)

Namaste Gopal

We all know very well that gaudiya maths including iskcon headed by bhakti vinod thakur and bhakti sidhanta saraswati thakur advocate against meat eating or non veg. we also know very well that gaudiya vaishnabism of mahaprabhu shri chaitanya rooted in Bengal and unlike north Indian, Bengalis are very much fond of fish . so I think its not a easy job for bengali families to sacrifice such important part of their lives when they are initiated in iskcon or any other gaudiya maths. In such a background , I have noticed in a book written by one of the greatest vaishnavas of mahaprabhu chaitanya’s line, Narottam Das thakur that one does lose his vaishnavatta if he eats fish.

This declaration of Narottam Das thakur whom iskcon also conveys due respect made me to believe that fish was not untouchable to the Bengali vaishnavas of that period. I am not interested in drawing any line of division between himsa and ahimsa or eating veg and non veg. I think himsa is as much related to plant killing for preparation of our food as much it is for animal killing . If we consider only killing of animal for non veg preparation is himsa and killing of live plants for veg preparation is ahimsa, we are not doing the right job here. Regarding food I only follow the Gita which does not say anything on plant or animal. Gita verses 7 to 10 of chapter XVI says “ three kinds of food conforming to sattvic, rajasic and tamasic nature. (i) Sattvic food which enhance life force, energy, strength, health and cheerfulness, which are sweet, bland, nourishing and pleasant are dear to those of sattvic nature. (ii) Rajasic food which are bitter , sour, salty, over hot, pungent, dry and burning, which cause pain, grief and disease are dear to those of rajasic nature. (iii) Tamasic food which cooked overnight, insipid, putried, stale, left over and impure is dear to those of tamasic nature”. So shri Krishna is very much categorical about our food which is different to match our nature only. He neither mentions the word ‘ non veg or animal and veg or plant’ as our ideal food but here we are doing just opposite of what shri bhagavan says in Gita. We all must accept that shri Krishna is very much aware of the fact that food for human is obtained from both animal and plant. He could have mentioned about ideal food from plant only if he had not supported animal food which is said to have an act of himsa . why shri Krishna is not categorical on food from plant only which is said to have ahimsa . When shri Krishna himself has not categorized our food as animal and plant, who are we to decide between right or wrong on veg or non veg . The fact of the matter is We take food guided by our very nature only.

Another more point I want to make here . fish plays very important role in bengali’s life right from birth of to death. Without fish and pan Bengali ‘s rituals are incomplete. Display of size of the fish in the bengali marriage ceremony does a matter. Bengali observes shradhya after death followed by one ceremony called MATSHYAMUKHI , eating of fish. such is the importance of fish in the life of a Bengali and that Bengal is the root place where gaudiya vaishnavism started its journey. Does it mean that Bengalis are following himsa when fish is part and parcel of their lives ?

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Dandavats pranams jop mala prabhuji

without going into the various cultural traditions of bengal do you ever consider or is it a consideration that the words of the thakurs gets mistranslated and brought into a lower field of consciousness

vada is supramental Vak vAc so when narottama das thakur is speaking of fish matsya is there not a more esoteric meaning behind it in the cosmic realm where the avatar of Vishnu is appearing in the mind

mind is considered to be element of water and fish swim in water

Veda has to be consistent and always of the same nature and in speech sound vak of the vaishnava who lives is sound shabda Brahma it also has to align with Veda




The Rig Veda 1.164.45 says “catvari vak parimita padani tani vidur brahmana ye minishinah, guha trini nihita neengayanti turiyam vaco manushya vadanti” (i.e. The cognoscenti know of the Vak that exists in four forms . Three are hidden and the fourth is what men speak)

Taking the teachings of the Acharya’s in a mundane way is the cause of much misunderstandings

if things are taken as literal then we may as well say that matsyendranath was actually born from a fish

Hare Krsna

[timetraveler]

You can make any mental jugglery you want but there is no defense for eating flesh.

[jopmala]

You can make any mental jugglery you want but there is no defense for eating flesh.

Pranam


If meat eating is himsa then Ram and Lakshman were also involved in himsa because they used to hunt animal particularly deer and eat its flesh. And In the Mahabharata Panch Pandava while in exile hunted animal for their livelihood . yagnas which were performed with animal sacrifice was also involved himsa. Ram Krishna param hansa was so great spiritual master but never tried to stop animal sacrifice in the Dakshineswar Kali temple. Was he a supporter of himsa ? even swami Vivekananda supported non veg. was he supporter of himsa. Every killing is not considered himsa.
I shall quote from Bhagavatam

Verse 9/6/
(6) (http://bhagavata.org/canto9/chapter6.html#Text%206) king Ikshvâku, once during ashthaka-s'râddha ordered his son: 'Oh Vikukshi, bring me pure flesh [as acquired by hunting]. Go for it right now without delay.'

(7) (http://bhagavata.org/canto9/chapter6.html#Text%207)And so he went to the forest to kill animals suitable for the oblations, but when he was fatigued and hungry the hero ate a rabbit . (8) (http://bhagavata.org/canto9/chapter6.html#Text%208)He offered what had remained to his father who in his turn asked their guru [Vasishthha] to purify it. He replied: 'All this is polluted and unfit for use.'

(9) (http://bhagavata.org/canto9/chapter6.html#Text%209)Thus being informed by the spiritual master, the ruler understood what his son had done. Out of anger that he had violated the vidhi (http://bhagavata.org/glossary/v.html#V%20i%20d%20h%20i%20%27%20s), he consequently sent him out of the country. Is it himsa ?

VERSE 11.5.13
yad ghrāṇa-bhakṣo vihitaḥ surāyās
tathā paśor ālabhanaṁ na hiṁsā
evaṁ vyavāyaḥ prajayā na ratyā
imaṁ viśuddhaṁ na viduḥ sva-dharmam


According to the Vedic injunctions, when wine is offered in sacrificial ceremonies it is later to be consumed by smelling, and not by drinking. Similarly, the sacrificial offering of animals is permitted, but there is no provision for wide-scale animal slaughter. (Translation by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada)


VERSE 4.26.6
tīrtheṣu pratidṛṣṭeṣu
rājā medhyān paśūn vane
yāvad-artham alaṁ lubdho
hanyād iti niyamyate


If a king is too attracted to eating flesh, he may, according to the directions of the revealed scriptures on sacrificial performances, go to the forest and kill some animals that are recommended for killing. One is not allowed to kill animals unnecessarily or without restrictions. The Vedas regulate animal-killing to stop the extravagance of foolish men influenced by the modes of passion and ignorance.

Madhvācārya has given the following statement in regard to animal sacrifice:

yajñeṣv ālabhanaḿ (https://vedabase.net/a/alabhanam) proktaḿ (https://vedabase.net/p/proktam)
devatoddeśataḥ paśoḥ (https://vedabase.net/p/pasoh)
himsā (https://vedabase.net/h/himsa) nāma (https://vedabase.net/n/nama) tad (https://vedabase.net/t/tad)-anyatra (https://vedabase.net/a/anyatra)
tasmāt (https://vedabase.net/t/tasmat) tāḿ (https://vedabase.net/t/tam) nācared budhaḥ (https://vedabase.net/b/budhah)
yato yajñe (https://vedabase.net/y/yajne) mṛtā (https://vedabase.net/m/mrta) ūrdhvaḿ (https://vedabase.net/u/urdhvam)
yānti (https://vedabase.net/y/yanti) deve (https://vedabase.net/d/deve) ca (https://vedabase.net/c/ca) paitṛke
ato lābhād ālabhanaḿ (https://vedabase.net/a/alabhanam)
svargasya na (https://vedabase.net/n/na) tu (https://vedabase.net/t/tu) māraṇam
(https://vedabase.net/m/maranam)

According to this statement, the Vedas sometimes prescribe animal sacrifice in ritual performances for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord or a particular demigod. If, however, one whimsically slaughters animals without rigidly following the Vedic prescriptions, such killing is actual violence and should not be accepted by any intelligent person. If the animal sacrifice is perfectly performed, the sacrificed animal immediately goes to the heavenly planets of the demigods and the forefathers. Therefore such a sacrifice is not for killing animals but for demonstrating the potency of Vedic mantras, by the power of which the sacrificed creature is immediately promoted to a higher situation.

For your kind information, Bhakti Vinod thakur also confessed to his son that he ate meat and fish at some state of his life. Spiritual attachment is not the only factor for food selection. Rice and fish are found in abundance in Bengal province and so these are naturally selected food of the people of that province . why do you take medicine to kill virus or bacteria in your body. Why don’t you let them to eat you for the sake of ahimsa ? They have also lives and deserved to live in your body . Do you know when you kill plants for your food how many insects also die with them. Is it not himsa ? you drink cow milk that not produced for you but her calves only ? you should be ashamed of drinking cows milk by snaching from her calves. Is it not himsa ? those vaishnavas who eat fish you will call them karta bhaja or sahajiya etc etc. I hear about vaishnavas who are not fish eater but indulge in such heinous act which can not be expressed in black and while but in the eyes of many of us they enjoy great respect as maharaja etc . why so much double standard ? By the way, these are facts not mental jugglery , you can verify.

[jopmala]

there can be compromises but it depends upon kala desha pata

not all places have the luxury to choose their diets in Tibet they live in harsh conditions where it’s almost impossible to grow food also on many costal regions they can’t grow or farm so have to survive on fish

in inner city slums where people have no money they rely on poultry, what do you suggest for these people do you suggest they starve and die or maybe they should be punished

its very easy to dictate if ones own personal circumstances are secure although now with. C19 that paper thin security is under threat and people are thrown into panic and desperation

Do you eat rice grains vegetables if so then you are responsible for the mass killing of insects that live in the ground

do you drive a car catch the bus or train again if yes you are responsible for the killing of many living beings

who is to say that a vegetable is less or more than an an insect so what does Ahimsa mean

myself I am a vegan and I have set up free food distribution programmes and actively promote ahimsa diets but I think that many vegans are very fanatical and self righteous

on the banks of ganga poor people who have no money no job can’t pay for education they fish and thank the divine mother for sustenances and giving them life there consciousness is with the mother Ganga

many vegans and vegetarians have much more negative impact on the environment in modern society with sophisticated meals so who has more ahimsa who is more grateful to mata

I can give countless examples that kala desha pata with wisdom is more higher practice which may involve even cutting off someone’s head or hanging as an act of ahimsa and false moral religious principles act more as emotional himsa

siya rama

Pranam markandeya 108 dasa


May it so happen that thakur was not a fish eater but some sect of vaishnava parampara support eating of fish and thakur tried to defend them only or may be you are right in saying that taking the teachings of the acharaya in a mundane way is the cause of misunderstandings but yes I have taken the thing literally. Actually getting the remarks of thakur on fish eating , I have found some solace because opposing of fish eating is more aggressive and thakur is “ some one in particular” to talk in the favour of fish eating as far as gadiya vaishnava practice is concerned . Truly speaking I am not meat eater but I eat onion and garlic. I do not agree that vaishanav can not eat fish only because it is said to have involved some kind of himsa. In fact so called gadiya Vaishnavas found in doing many acts in day to day life which also involves himsa in some way or other . why that himsa is not considered for spiritual progress is a matter of confusion. Actually from my heart I am not a supporter of eating fish for the satisfaction of my taste. In this regard I personally respect your considered view that himsa or ahimsa depends on desh kal and patra.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Pranams jop mala prabhuji
desha kala patra is of most importance

a few examples within vaishnava tradition

srila bhaktisiddhanta when building his math engages all the local people without discrimination in construction and set up two kitchens one veg one non veg

purpose to engage them in seva and see long term spiritual goals and not divide who can and who cannot do seva

before leaving for America Srila Prabhupada was asked what he would eat in a land that only ate meat and his reply was that he would eat meat if he had to if it meant spreading Hari nam

two disciples of Srila Prabhupada were sent to Russia and China to start preachings activities both asked what they would eat and Srila Prabhupada said eat meat if you have too but preach and establish sangha

Sri Ramanuja Acharya engaged dacoits and gunda to build temples and they all became pure devotees

desha kala patra is vision of the wise mundane religious puritans can’t see their own small mindedness

this is easy to see when these 3 factors are taken into account for understanding environment and current situations which are constantly changing but karuna to engage conditions souls is unchanging

sadly religion dictates time place and environment

fixed views means lack of experience and compassion and it’s easy to dictate diet when one has never had to worry where their next meal comes from and it makes me wonder if the luxuries taken away from them how that would effect their view when a few days go past and they have no money or shops to buy their next meal

also religious rule followers give more importance to rules than people. And from what I have seen those that demand these rules are often previous meat eaters and think god consciousness is only for pure people this in itself is himsa to deny compassion and make religious segregation like believers unbelievers faith and faithless which is all based on wartime Abrahamic religious control methods sword in one hand fake love in the other

[jopmala]

Pranams jop mala prabhuji
desha kala patra is of most importance

a few examples within vaishnava tradition

srila bhaktisiddhanta when building his math engages all the local people without discrimination in construction and set up two kitchens one veg one non veg

purpose to engage them in seva and see long term spiritual goals and not divide who can and who cannot do seva

before leaving for America Srila Prabhupada was asked what he would eat in a land that only ate meat and his reply was that he would eat meat if he had to if it meant spreading Hari nam

two disciples of Srila Prabhupada were sent to Russia and China to start preachings activities both asked what they would eat and Srila Prabhupada said eat meat if you have too but preach and establish sangha

Sri Ramanuja Acharya engaged dacoits and gunda to build temples and they all became pure devotees

desha kala patra is vision of the wise mundane religious puritans can’t see their own small mindedness

this is easy to see when these 3 factors are taken into account for understanding environment and current situations which are constantly changing but karuna to engage conditions souls is unchanging

sadly religion dictates time place and environment

fixed views means lack of experience and compassion and it’s easy to dictate diet when one has never had to worry where their next meal comes from and it makes me wonder if the luxuries taken away from them how that would effect their view when a few days go past and they have no money or shops to buy their next meal

also religious rule followers give more importance to rules than people. And from what I have seen those that demand these rules are often previous meat eaters and think god consciousness is only for pure people this in itself is himsa to deny compassion and make religious segregation like believers unbelievers faith and faithless which is all based on wartime Abrahamic religious control methods sword in one hand fake love in the other

Pranam

I do agree with you 100%

[timetraveler]

Once again absolute opposite.

People might then question, but I am not actually killing the animal but just eating, is that wrong too?

The Manu Samhita scriptures tells us that all the people get the reaction for being involved with meat:-

Naakrtvaa praaninaam himsaam maamsamutpadyate kvachit. Na cha praanivadhah svargyastamaanmaamsam vivarjayet. (MS 5.48)

Anumantaa vishasitaa nihantaa krayavikrayii. Samskartaa chopahartaa cha khaadakashchetighaatakaah (MS 5.51)

Flesh of animals is obtained only after killing him, which is a sin, and the killer of animals never enters the celestial abode.

All those involved in killing, consenting the killing, helping the killing, carrying, selling, buying, cooking and eating the meat of an animal are equally sinful as the killing of that animal.

The person who eats meat is also encouraging and in one sense supporting the killing. For example if few dacoits goes to rob a house, and one stands outside the house to look out and other few dacoits steal from the house, if they get caught everyone will be punished by the laws, because the person who was outside was also supporting the crime. Similarly, one who eats meat is also involved and is liable for punishment.

Plants and Vegetables are also living being is it not a sin to kill them for food too?

This explanation is given in Srimad Bhagavatam (3.29.15) purport by the founder Srila Prabhupada:

“Sometimes the question is put before us: “You ask us not to eat meat, but you are eating vegetables. Do you think that is not violence?” The answer is that eating vegetables is violence, and vegetarians are also committing violence against other living entities because vegetables also have life. Non-devotees are killing cows, goats and so many other animals for eating purposes, and a devotee, who is vegetarian, is also killing. But here, significantly, it is stated that every living entity has to live by killing another entity; that is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: one living entity is the life for another living entity. But for a human being, that violence should be committed only as much as necessary.

A human being is not to eat anything which is not offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yajna-sistasinah santah: one becomes freed from all sinful reactions by eating foodstuffs which are offered to Yajna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A devotee therefore eats only prasada, or foodstuffs offered to the Supreme Lord, and Krishna says that when a devotee offers Him foodstuffs from the vegetable kingdom, with devotion, He eats that. A devotee is to offer to Krishna foodstuffs prepared from vegetables. If the Supreme Lord wanted foodstuffs prepared from animal food, the devotee could offer this, but He does not order to do that.”

So yes even plants and vegetables have souls and killing them unnecessarily and for personal sense gratification causes sin, that’s why it is recommended to offer the vegetarian food to Lord Krishna first then later eat that food as Prashadam or mercy. Lord Krishna can do anything so he transforms the food offered to him into spiritual food, this will free us from sin and karmic reactions.

Eating only food offered to Krishna is the ultimate perfection of the vegetarian diet. After all, pigeons and monkeys are also vegetarian, so becoming a vegetarian is not in itself the greatest of accomplishments. The Vedas inform us that the purpose of human life is to reawaken the soul to its relationship with God, and only when we go beyond vegetarianism to prasada can our eating be helpful in achieving this goal.

Cardinal Danielou: But why does God create some animals who eat other animals? There is a fault in the creation, it seems.

Srila Prabhupada: It is not a fault. God is very kind. If you want to eat animals, then He’ll give you full facility. God will give you the body of a tiger in your next life so that you can eat flesh very freely. “Why are you maintaining slaughterhouses? I’ll give you fangs and claws. Now eat.” So the meat-eaters are awaiting such punishment. The animal-eaters become tigers, wolves, cats, and dogs in their next life–to get more facility.”

https://iskcondesiretree.com/page/what-s-wrong-with-eating-meat

[jopmala]

Once again absolute opposite.

People might then question, but I am not actually killing the animal but just eating, is that wrong too?

The Manu Samhita scriptures tells us that all the people get the reaction for being involved with meat:-

Naakrtvaa praaninaam himsaam maamsamutpadyate kvachit. Na cha praanivadhah svargyastamaanmaamsam vivarjayet. (MS 5.48)

Anumantaa vishasitaa nihantaa krayavikrayii. Samskartaa chopahartaa cha khaadakashchetighaatakaah (MS 5.51)

Flesh of animals is obtained only after killing him, which is a sin, and the killer of animals never enters the celestial abode.

All those involved in killing, consenting the killing, helping the killing, carrying, selling, buying, cooking and eating the meat of an animal are equally sinful as the killing of that animal.

The person who eats meat is also encouraging and in one sense supporting the killing. For example if few dacoits goes to rob a house, and one stands outside the house to look out and other few dacoits steal from the house, if they get caught everyone will be punished by the laws, because the person who was outside was also supporting the crime. Similarly, one who eats meat is also involved and is liable for punishment.

Plants and Vegetables are also living being is it not a sin to kill them for food too?

This explanation is given in Srimad Bhagavatam (3.29.15) purport by the founder Srila Prabhupada:

“Sometimes the question is put before us: “You ask us not to eat meat, but you are eating vegetables. Do you think that is not violence?” The answer is that eating vegetables is violence, and vegetarians are also committing violence against other living entities because vegetables also have life. Non-devotees are killing cows, goats and so many other animals for eating purposes, and a devotee, who is vegetarian, is also killing. But here, significantly, it is stated that every living entity has to live by killing another entity; that is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: one living entity is the life for another living entity. But for a human being, that violence should be committed only as much as necessary.

A human being is not to eat anything which is not offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yajna-sistasinah santah: one becomes freed from all sinful reactions by eating foodstuffs which are offered to Yajna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A devotee therefore eats only prasada, or foodstuffs offered to the Supreme Lord, and Krishna says that when a devotee offers Him foodstuffs from the vegetable kingdom, with devotion, He eats that. A devotee is to offer to Krishna foodstuffs prepared from vegetables. If the Supreme Lord wanted foodstuffs prepared from animal food, the devotee could offer this, but He does not order to do that.”

So yes even plants and vegetables have souls and killing them unnecessarily and for personal sense gratification causes sin, that’s why it is recommended to offer the vegetarian food to Lord Krishna first then later eat that food as Prashadam or mercy. Lord Krishna can do anything so he transforms the food offered to him into spiritual food, this will free us from sin and karmic reactions.

Eating only food offered to Krishna is the ultimate perfection of the vegetarian diet. After all, pigeons and monkeys are also vegetarian, so becoming a vegetarian is not in itself the greatest of accomplishments. The Vedas inform us that the purpose of human life is to reawaken the soul to its relationship with God, and only when we go beyond vegetarianism to prasada can our eating be helpful in achieving this goal.

Cardinal Danielou: But why does God create some animals who eat other animals? There is a fault in the creation, it seems.

Srila Prabhupada: It is not a fault. God is very kind. If you want to eat animals, then He’ll give you full facility. God will give you the body of a tiger in your next life so that you can eat flesh very freely. “Why are you maintaining slaughterhouses? I’ll give you fangs and claws. Now eat.” So the meat-eaters are awaiting such punishment. The animal-eaters become tigers, wolves, cats, and dogs in their next life–to get more facility.”

https://iskcondesiretree.com/page/what-s-wrong-with-eating-meat

Pranam

First of all I am not denying that those who eat meat but not kill the animal directly escape the result of his action or something like that neither I do know how far Manu Samhita can be considered as an authority for what to eat or what not because Manu samhita also authorizes meat eating in verse 31 chapter 5. Actually I don’t have any copy of manu samhita but one of my friends has suggested this verse there.

Secondly, in Srimad Bhagavatam verse (3.29.15) says

nisevitenanimittena
sva (http://vedabase.net/s/sva)-dharmena (http://vedabase.net/d/dharmena) mahiyasa (http://vedabase.net/m/mahiyasa)
kriya (http://vedabase.net/k/kriya)-yogena (http://vedabase.net/y/yogena) sastena (http://vedabase.net/s/sastena)
natihimsrena nityasah
(http://vedabase.net/n/nityasah)
A devotee must execute his prescribed duties, which are glorious, without material profit. Without excessive violence, one should regularly perform one's devotional activities.

However, purport by prabhupada clears the cloud from the sky when he says that “The answer is that eating vegetables is violence, and vegetarians are also committing violence against other living entities because vegetables also have life for eating purposes, and a devotee, who is vegetarian, is also killing. But here, significantly, it is stated that every living entity has to live by killing another entity; that is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: one living entity is the life for another living entity”

Thirdly, the verse where shri Krishna says “vegetable food stuff should be offered” not mentioned. It is in the BG verse 26 of chapter 9 which says “ patram pushpam ---------prayatatmanah” that is “ what ever man gives me in true devotion whether a leaf. A flower, a fruit or water, I accept that gift of love from the pure soul” . I don’t think shri Krishna wants food stuff from his devotee instead he wants prem bhakti associated with offering. The so called followers suffer from a general perception that whatever vegetable food stuff they offer , that is accepted by shri bhagavan and it becomes prasadam. I am surprised to see that even after taking prasadam for whole day everyday, they are as usual as any other normal follower. Could you think what would have been their spiritual progress if they could have eaten the prasadam actually tasted by swayam bhagavan instead I have seen them falling sick by taking so called prasadam . Shri Krishna accepts the offering of very close associates and pure devotee only. And shri bhagavan keeps himself away from anything made of mayic indriyas . if you accept that shri Krishna transforms the food offered to him into spiritual food then what makes difference whether he is offered veg or non veg . It is evident from your argument that at least he is not taking the same food stuff offered by you in the form of vegetables. We see gaudiya math followers offering food stuff in their homes and also in maths and taking prasadam ( perception) and doing things unbecoming of them like engaged in war among themselves for higher post or commanding position in the organization if not granted , leaving the org and starting new one of his own etc etc. is this the mercy of prasadam taken five times everyday ?

Lastly, I think you follow prabhupada from your heart and prabhupad also followed shri Nityananda prabhu. Now go to verses comprising conversation between nityananda prabhu and advaita prabhu in the chapter 24 of Madhya khanda of “ chaitanya bhagavat” written by brindavan das thakur where shri advaita prabhu saying to shri nityananda prabhu “matsya khay mansa khay keman sannyasi” “ abdhute koribe sakal jati nash” “ kotha hoite madyaper hoilo parkash” Meaning : You eat fish! You eat meat! How are you a sannyasin ?” “ from where the drunkard was revealed ?” do these lines have any significance for you ?

[timetraveler]

"Thou Shalt Not Kill"
Srila Prabhupada: We have to accept all the injunctions of the scripture as they are given, not only those that suit us. If you do not follow the first order, "Thou shalt not kill," then where is the question of love of God?
Visitor: Christians take this commandment to be applicable to human beings, not to animals.
Srila Prabhupada: That would mean that Christ was not intelligent enough to use the right word: murder. There is killing, and there is murder. Murder refers to human beings. So you think Jesus was not intelligent enough to use the right word - murder - instead of the word killing? Killing means any kind of killing and especially animal killing. If Jesus had meant simply the killing of humans, he would have used the word murder... If you want to interpret these words, that is something else. We understand the direct meaning. "Thou shalt not kill" means "The Christians should not kill."
Father Emmanuel: Isn't the eating of plants also killing?
Srila Prabhupada: The Vaisnava philosophy teaches that we should not even kill plants unnecessarily. In the Bhagavad-gita [9.26] Krishna says: "If someone offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or a little water, I will accept it." We offer Krishna only the kind of food He demands, and then we eat the remnants. If offering vegetarian food to Krishna were sinful, then it would be Krishna's sin, not ours. But God is apapa-viddha - sinful reactions are not applicable to Him... Eating food first offered to the Lord is also something like a soldier's killing during wartime. In a war, when the commander orders a man to attack, the obedient soldier who kills the enemy will get a medal. But if the same soldier kills someone on his own, he will be punished. Similarly, when we eat only prasadam [the remnants of food offered to Krishna], we do not commit any sin. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita [3.13]: "The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food that is first offered for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin."
Father Emmanuel: Krishna cannot give permission to eat animals?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes - in the animal kingdom. But the civilized human being, the religious human being, is not meant to kill and eat animals. If you stop killing animals and chant the holy name of Christ, everything will be perfect... I think the Christian priests should cooperate with the Krishna consciousness movement. They should chant the name Christ or Christos and should stop condoning the slaughter of animals. This program follows the teachings of the Bible; it is not my philosophy. Please act accordingly and you will see how the world situation will change.

Science of Self-Realization (pp. 129-33

Physical Effects of Meat-Eating
Ample food grains can be produced through agricultural enterprises, and profuse milk, yogurt, and ghee can be arranged through cow protection. Abundant honey can be obtained if the forests are protected. Unfortunately, in modern civilization, men are busy killing the cows that are the source of yogurt, milk, and ghee; they are cutting down all the trees that supply honey, and they are opening factories to manufacture nuts, bolts, automobiles, and wine instead of engaging in agriculture. How can the people be happy? They must suffer from all the misery of materialism. Their bodies become wrinkled and gradually deteriorate until they become almost like dwarves, and a bad odor emanates from their bodies because of unclean perspiration resulting from eating all kinds of nasty things. This is not human civilization.


http://iskconbirmingham.org/whats-wrong-with-eating-meat

[jopmala]

"Thou Shalt Not Kill"
Srila Prabhupada: We have to accept all the injunctions of the scripture as they are given, not only those that suit us. If you do not follow the first order, "Thou shalt not kill," then where is the question of love of God?
Visitor: Christians take this commandment to be applicable to human beings, not to animals.
Srila Prabhupada: That would mean that Christ was not intelligent enough to use the right word: murder. There is killing, and there is murder. Murder refers to human beings. So you think Jesus was not intelligent enough to use the right word - murder - instead of the word killing? Killing means any kind of killing and especially animal killing. If Jesus had meant simply the killing of humans, he would have used the word murder... If you want to interpret these words, that is something else. We understand the direct meaning. "Thou shalt not kill" means "The Christians should not kill."
Father Emmanuel: Isn't the eating of plants also killing?
Srila Prabhupada: The Vaisnava philosophy teaches that we should not even kill plants unnecessarily. In the Bhagavad-gita [9.26] Krishna says: "If someone offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or a little water, I will accept it." We offer Krishna only the kind of food He demands, and then we eat the remnants. If offering vegetarian food to Krishna were sinful, then it would be Krishna's sin, not ours. But God is apapa-viddha - sinful reactions are not applicable to Him... Eating food first offered to the Lord is also something like a soldier's killing during wartime. In a war, when the commander orders a man to attack, the obedient soldier who kills the enemy will get a medal. But if the same soldier kills someone on his own, he will be punished. Similarly, when we eat only prasadam [the remnants of food offered to Krishna], we do not commit any sin. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita [3.13]: "The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food that is first offered for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin."
Father Emmanuel: Krishna cannot give permission to eat animals?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes - in the animal kingdom. But the civilized human being, the religious human being, is not meant to kill and eat animals. If you stop killing animals and chant the holy name of Christ, everything will be perfect... I think the Christian priests should cooperate with the Krishna consciousness movement. They should chant the name Christ or Christos and should stop condoning the slaughter of animals. This program follows the teachings of the Bible; it is not my philosophy. Please act accordingly and you will see how the world situation will change.

Science of Self-Realization (pp. 129-33

Physical Effects of Meat-Eating
Ample food grains can be produced through agricultural enterprises, and profuse milk, yogurt, and ghee can be arranged through cow protection. Abundant honey can be obtained if the forests are protected. Unfortunately, in modern civilization, men are busy killing the cows that are the source of yogurt, milk, and ghee; they are cutting down all the trees that supply honey, and they are opening factories to manufacture nuts, bolts, automobiles, and wine instead of engaging in agriculture. How can the people be happy? They must suffer from all the misery of materialism. Their bodies become wrinkled and gradually deteriorate until they become almost like dwarves, and a bad odor emanates from their bodies because of unclean perspiration resulting from eating all kinds of nasty things. This is not human civilization.


http://iskconbirmingham.org/whats-wrong-with-eating-meat

pranam

this all reveals that only desha kala and patra can decide your food. if situation arises you may have to eat animal flesh and that was seen when Ram Sita Lakshman and pandava were in exile. they were bound to hunt animal. I think we all who advocates various arguments in favour of veg or non veg should read the history of famine that india already experienced in the past . we have to remember that every part of India can not produce crops like areas on the banks of the rivers. we have regions where few crops can be produced. people have to depend on availability of food irrespective of veg or non veg. survival is first option.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Dandavats prabhuji

Yes survival is natural instinct and to prolong ones life is natural tendancy the sadhus like narrottama is for people to not lose dharma which is the natural instinct and is the only thing that can survive harsh reality of material existences where death and suffering is garunteed


hare krsna

at this moment in time I really can’t think of an more evil thought that meat eating karmi demons are getting their reactions and it’s a good thing that c19 is god punishing demons

while many people die

Families town apart

people losing homes and business

millions of helpless homeless poor people stranded in india facing even worse conditions

while self righteous so called spiritual people are celebrating thinking that it’s karmic retribution

what a sad and terrible view and not a Krsna conscious one