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orlando
15 April 2006, 02:27 PM
Namaste all.
I am a Sri vaishnava of Sri-sampradaya.
As such I consider prapatti the only way to obtain Moksha.
So,I'd like to know your opinions about the interpration of the following things.
In Srimad Bhagavata Purana,Canto 12,chapter 3,it is wrote:
(51) In the ocean of faults that is Kali-yuga, there is luckily one great good quality: just by chanting about Krishna [see bhajans] can one, liberated from the material bondage, go to the kingdom of heaven [see also bhâgavata dharma and kîrtana]. (52) The same result in Satya-yuga achieved by meditating on Vishnu, in Tretâ-yuga by worshiping with sacrifices and in Dvâpara-yuga by serving the lotus feet [of Him as a King], is in Kali-yuga achieved by singing about the Lord [see also 11.5: 38-40].

I used the version at http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto12/chapter3.html

In order to quote Sri Vishnu Purana,Book 6,Chapter 2 I will use version at http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/vp/vp157.htm

UPON this subject, Maitreya, you shall hear what the wise Vyása has related, as it is communicated truly by me.

It was once a matter of dispute amongst the sages, at what season the least moral merit obtained the greatest reward, and by whom it was most easily displayed. In order to terminate the discussion, they went to Veda Vyása to remove their doubts. They found the illustrious Muni, my son, half immersed in the water of the Ganges; and awaiting the close of his ablutions, the sages remained on the banks of the sacred stream, under shelter of a grove of trees. As my son plunged down into the water, and again rose up from it, the Munis heard him exclaim, "Excellent, excellent, is the Kali age!" Again he dived, and again rising, said in their hearing, "Well done, well done Śúdra; thou art happy!" Again he sank down, and as he once more emerged they heard him say, "Well done, well done, women; they are happy! who are more fortunate than they?" After this, my son finished his bathing, and the sages met him as he approached to welcome them. After he had given them seats, and they had proffered their respects, the son of Satyavatí said to them, "On what account have you come to me?" They replied, "We came to you to consult you on a subject on which we entertain some doubt; but that may be at present suspended: explain to us something else. We heard you say, 'Excellent is the Kali age! Well done, Śúdra! Well done, women!' Now we are desirous to know why this was said, why you called them repeatedly, happy. Tell us the meaning of it, if it be not a mystery. We will then propose to you the question that occupies our thoughts."

Being thus addressed by the Munis, Vyása smiled, and said to them, "Hear, excellent sages, why I uttered the words 'Well done, well done.' The fruit of penance, of continence, of silent prayer, and the like, practised in the Krita age for ten years, in the Treta for one year, in the Dwápara for a month, is obtained in the Kali age in a day and night: therefore did I exclaim, 'Excellent, excellent, is the Kali age!' That

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reward which a man obtains in the Krita by abstract meditation, in the Treta by sacrifice, in the Dwápara by adoration, he receives in the Kali by merely reciting the name of Keśava. In the Kali age a man displays the most exalted virtue by very little exertion; therefore, pious sages, who know what virtue is, I was pleased with the Kali age.

Poonthanam (Poonthanam is not his name but the name of the Namboodiri family he belonged to..His name seems to have been forgotten in antiquity),in his work Jnana Pana (Pot of Knowledge),says:

27.Please do remember that this land of Bharatha,
Is the most sacred land known,
And in the vast time periods this Kali time period,
Leads to salvation most easily.
28.Please know that there is no effort,
Except singing for the holy names,
Krishna, Krishna, Mukunda Janardhana,
Krishna, Govinda and Rama.
29.Thinking about this,
Those living in the other thirteen worlds,
Those living in the six other islands,
Those living in the other eight countries,
And those living in the other three time periods,
Realizing that they would not get salvation easily.
With folded hands do salutations,
To the Country of Bhratha and the time period of Kali.
30.To be at least a grass in that country,
And be born now in this time period ,
We were not lucky enough oh,God,
And so our salutations to the men,
Of Bharatha country and Kali time period.
31.Why do we tell that,
All those who are not here, sing our praise thus?
Is not this the time period Kali,
Are we not living in the country of Bharatha,
And are we not born as human beings?
All of you please think about this,
Should we go without the names of Hari,
Should we be less afraid of going to hell,
Should we live without a tongue?
Alas! Alas ! without proper thought,
We destroy our lives in vain.
...
35.In the body which is like a water bubble,
We see it filled up always,
And when we put efforts without thought,
We can tell that this bubble will only burst.
In this very limited time,
We do not sing the holy names.
...
47.Why was all these special things told,
All of you think as much as possible,
About the largeness of Karma done,
About how we have taken many births already,
About how the present is the Kali time period,
About the largeness of the country of Bharatha,
About how all these days we were born there,
About how all the past period was spent without meaning,
About how we do not have much life span left,
About how we were healthy all along,
And how by singing of holy names of God,
All fortunes would come about,
About how the fear of future hell,
Has to be thought about today..
48.Why are you wasting time unnecessarily,
All of you please go to Vaikunta*.
...
56.Always without attachment and always,
With extreme devotion we should chant the names of God
Till the life span allotted to us is over,
And like this all of us should live.
We should praise all the beings that we see,
Leaving the sense of shame.
Filled with tears of joy,
And leaving out insults heaped,
We should fall at the feet,
When we see holy people around.
And then drowning in the sense of devotion,
Like a drunkard we should dance.
If we travel in this world thus,
All problems would run away from us.
...
59. When wandering after desires have left,
Thinking that we are not yet ready for salvation,
Please do not develop self pity,
And hear the greatness of God’s holy name.
Even if one belongs to the lowest caste,
Or a learned higher caste who is expert in Vedas,
Except those who are born without tongue,
And who are made dumb by nature,
Out of the uncountable holy names of God,
At least one, once in any one day,
At least when are happy and contended,
Or at least in dreams without our control,
Or at least teasing Him as some other,
Or at least for the sake of some one else,
Wherever we are,
If we tell with our tongue,
Or atleast if else,
Hear the name with our ear,
We will get salvation then and there,
And would become one with God,
And so say Sreedhara* the great scholar,
And sage Vyasa** who wrote the puranas.
60.Even Bagavad Geetha says the same,
And also so say the Vedas with respect.
61.So sing God’s holy names easily
And with joy become one with God.
62.For those aiming at salvation this book is sufficient,
For it sings about greatness of God’s holy names.
With errors or without errors.
Please grant me your grace , Oh my God!


If you want read the full Jnana Pana,please read http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/ramachander/Jnana%20Pana.doc

orlando
15 April 2006, 02:33 PM
The importance of chanting and reciting Lord's names is found even in Mukunda Mala,a work composed by a prince of the Chera dynasty called Kulashekara Azhwar (Called Kula shekara perumal in Kerala)He was also called Mudaliyandan Nambi .He was one of the 12 sages of the Bhakthi cult of Vaishnavism called Azhwars (or alvars).

At http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/ramachander/Mukunda%20mala.doc you may read the full Mukunda Mala.

My question is:should I take literally the puranic doctrin that in Kali-yuga one mays obtain Moksha just by reciting Lord's names?

Regards,
Orlando.

Namo Narayana
15 April 2006, 06:17 PM
Start chanting with a hope of moksha. god will guide u in future

ramkish42
18 April 2006, 02:31 PM
The importance of chanting and reciting Lord's names is found even in Mukunda Mala,a work composed by a prince of the Chera dynasty called Kulashekara Azhwar (Called Kula shekara perumal in Kerala)He was also called Mudaliyandan Nambi .He was one of the 12 sages of the Bhakthi cult of Vaishnavism called Azhwars (or alvars).

At http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/ramachander/Mukunda%20mala.doc you may read the full Mukunda Mala.

My question is:should I take literally the puranic doctrin that in Kali-yuga one mays obtain Moksha just by reciting Lord's names?

Regards,
Orlando.

The answer is no for a vaishnav in strict sense.

The guideline given by Srimad Bhaagavat mahapurana relates to bhakti yoga, in which, we trust, even sage Vyasa is yet to reach god.

The idea is simple.

Bhakti yoga takes time to give moksha and those who are strong enough to endure the pain like Vyasa Maharishi, Vashista Maharishi can go for it. For those who are not that strong enough, lord has offered an easiest method called Charanaagati. Surrender in toto, and this will lead you to Moksha.

However, charanaagati does not dispense with namajapa, for namajapa is done not with aim of moksha for it is already guaranteed, it is done for bhaghavat preeti.

bhagawaaneva .... swayameva kaarithavaan depicts this very well

orlando
18 April 2006, 03:09 PM
Dear Ramkish 42,thanks for your reply.Please note that I do not know sankrit.
So I am not able to understand totally your post.
Please could you translate Charanaagati,bhaghavat preeti and bhagawaaneva .... swayameva kaarithavaan.
Regards,
Orlando.

ramkish42
18 April 2006, 03:39 PM
Charanaagati, - surrender to god in toto - this is explained in gita as a sloka popularly known as charamasloka. (I just thought of giving the sloka here, but it is in my signature)

bhaghavat preeti - for the happiness of lord. Lord is always happy - this is his actual status. but this phrase talks about lord is happy for what we did - this is specific to duty assigned to a particular soul. When a soul, does its duty without liking the fruits thereof, god is happy for that soul and will bestow his blessings on it, so that that soul get wisdom and thus reach eternity

bhagawaaneva .... swayameva kaarithavaan - this is another version of KRISHNAARPANAM - all submitted to god. As you indicated some where that you are vaishnavite, I referred to this for this acknowledges that the activity (started / completed after a due vow) is done by the lord himself through me for his happiness (thus I take nothing as result and all shall reach him)

Do buzz me if still these are troublesome

ramkish42
18 April 2006, 03:41 PM
Dear Ramkish 42,thanks for your reply.Please note that I do not know sankrit.
So I am not able to understand totally your post.
Please could you translate Charanaagati,bhaghavat preeti and bhagawaaneva .... swayameva kaarithavaan.
Regards,
Orlando.

By the way, May I know what is your mother tongue and what other languages you are familiar with. This might help me in future

orlando
18 April 2006, 03:57 PM
My mother tongue is italian language.I am familiar with English.
I know only a few words of sankrit.

ramkish42
18 April 2006, 04:17 PM
My mother tongue is italian language.I am familiar with English.
I know only a few words of sankrit.
Nice. I know India has italian connection already, now you add another thread to it.

Request you to use the Sanskrit instead of Sankrit. The word Sanskrit means tradtional method of communication

Singhi Kaya
19 April 2006, 08:11 AM
Nice. I know India has italian connection already, now you add another thread to it.
Lol....but we should not mock orlando for our misfortune.

ramkish42
19 April 2006, 08:17 AM
Lol....but we should not mock orlando for our misfortune.
Common, who is mocking?

Italian connection is not negative in connotion. I was appreciating him for adding a thread to the pre existing connection.

Treating italian connection as misfortune is essentially political, which I defer in this forum. Probably I may agree with you or may not agree with you out of this forum.

Singhi Kaya
19 April 2006, 08:38 AM
Sorry mis-understood.

orlando
19 April 2006, 12:13 PM
The answer is no for a vaishnav in strict sense.

The guideline given by Srimad Bhaagavat mahapurana relates to bhakti yoga, in which, we trust, even sage Vyasa is yet to reach god.

The idea is simple.

Bhakti yoga takes time to give moksha and those who are strong enough to endure the pain like Vyasa Maharishi, Vashista Maharishi can go for it. For those who are not that strong enough, lord has offered an easiest method called Charanaagati. Surrender in toto, and this will lead you to Moksha.

However, charanaagati does not dispense with namajapa, for namajapa is done not with aim of moksha for it is already guaranteed, it is done for bhaghavat preeti.


bhagawaaneva .... swayameva kaarithavaan depicts this very well

Of course this is true for us Sri vaishnavas.Gaudiya-vaishnavas take literally the puranic doctrin that in Kali-yuga one mays obtain Moksha just by reciting Lord's names.

Regards,
Orlando.

ramkish42
19 April 2006, 12:36 PM
Sorry mis-understood.
No need for sorry, dear

ramkish42
19 April 2006, 12:39 PM
Of course this is true for us Sri vaishnavas.Gaudiya-vaishnavas take literally the puranic doctrin that in Kali-yuga one mays obtain Moksha just by reciting Lord's names.

Regards,
Orlando.
Gaudia Vaishnavs feel, chanting lords name in Kali Yuga will stop mind flowing into other materials, thereby will uphold their bhakthi on lord. Thus it offers Moksha - but bhakthi marga is tougher and promise of moksha in this same janma is absent - however, Bhakthi marg can lead to Moksha provided the strength of Bhakthi is very strong

orlando
20 April 2006, 10:08 AM
The answer is no for a vaishnav in strict sense.

The guideline given by Srimad Bhaagavat mahapurana relates to bhakti yoga, in which, we trust, even sage Vyasa is yet to reach god.

The idea is simple.

Bhakti yoga takes time to give moksha and those who are strong enough to endure the pain like Vyasa Maharishi, Vashista Maharishi can go for it. For those who are not that strong enough, lord has offered an easiest method called Charanaagati. Surrender in toto, and this will lead you to Moksha.

However, charanaagati does not dispense with namajapa, for namajapa is done not with aim of moksha for it is already guaranteed, it is done for bhaghavat preeti.

bhagawaaneva .... swayameva kaarithavaan depicts this very well

I think that people not familiar with Sri Vaishnava teology may not understand why Bhakti-Yoga takes time to give Moksha and why one musts be strong enough to practice Bhakti-yoga.
So I will give some notes of clarification.
In Sri Vaishnavism context,bhakti-yoga must not be understood in the ordinary sense of the term as devotion. The term bhakti has a special significance in this context.
By http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/acharyas/ramanuja/vedarthasangraha.html
Here the word bhakti does not connote the popular sense in which it is understood. Bhakti-yoga is loving meditation upon God. When the meditation attains the form of "firm remembrance" (dhruva-anusmrtih) characterised by intense love, the vision of the Supreme is attained. It must be mentioned here that the final release is attained after the dissolution of the body. One endowed with such bhakti and self-surrender attains the fitness to earn the grace of the Lord. This bhakti itself is upasana or vidya mentioned in the Upanishads. It is same as knowledge spoken of in the srutis: "One who knows Brahman attains the Supreme," (Tai. II.1), "He who knows him becomes immortal here," (Pu. 20), and "He who knows Brahman becomes Brahman," (Mu. 3.2.9). As the vision of the Supreme is not possible through ordinary means of perception, he can be seen only through bhakti, which is a unique form of knowledge. This is in consonance with the Gita declaration, "I am attainable only through undivided bhakti" (9.54).


By http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/vedanta/vidyas.html

The 32 brahma-vidyas of the Upanishads
The various meditations on Brahman (God, the Absolute) taught in the Vedanta.
Sad Vidya -- Brahman as the ground of all being
Chhandogya Upanishad, VI
Antaraaditya Vidya -- Brahman as the Inner Controller of the Sun
Chhandogya Upanishad, I.vi.6
Akasa Vidya -- Brahman as the Cosmic Ether
Chhandogya Upanishad, I.ix.1
Prana Vidya -- Brahman as the Vital Breath
Chhandogya Upanishad, I.xi.5
Paramjyoti Vidya -- Brahman as the Supreme Splendor
Chhandogya Upanishad, III.xiii.7
Sandilya Vidya -- Meditation as taught by Sandilya
Chhandogya Upanishad, III.xiv.7
Upakosala Vidya -- Meditation as taught to Upakosala
Chhandogya Upanishad, IV.x
Vaisvaanara Vidya -- Brahman as the Universal Being
Chhandogya Upanishad, V.xi
Bhuma Vidya -- Brahman as the Great One
Chhandogya Upanishad, VII
Satyakaama Vidya -- Meditation as taught to Satyakaama Jaabaala
Chhandogya Upanishad, IV.iv
Dahara Vidya -- Brahman as the Imperceptible Ether within the Heart
Chhandogya Upanishad, VIII
Madhu Vidya -- Brahman as Honey
Chhandogya Upanishad, III.i
Samvarga Vidya
Chhandogya Upanishad, IV.iii
Gayatri Vidya -- Brahman as the Holy Gayatri Mantra
Chhandogya Upanishad, III.xii
Panca Agni Vidya -- The Meditation of the Five Fires
Chhandogya Upanishad, V.iii to x.
Akshi Vidya -- Brahman as being present within the Eye
Chhandogya Upanishad, IV.xv.1

Antaryaami Vidya -- Brahman as the Inner Controller
Brhadaaranyaka Upanishad, III.vii
Akshara Vidya -- Brahman as the Imperishable
Brhadaaranyaka Upanishad, III.viii.8
Jyotishaam jyotir Vidya -- Brahman as the Light of Lights
Brhadaaranyaka Upanishad, IV.iv.16
Maitreyi Vidya -- Meditation as taught by Yajnavalkya to his wife Maitreyi
Brhadaaranyaka Upanishad, II.iv
Sarvaantaraatmaa Vidya -- Brahman as the Inner Self of All
Brhadaaranyaka Upanishad, III.iv

Anandamaya Vidya -- Brahman as the Self consisting of Bliss
Taittiriya Upanishad, Anandavalli
Vaaruni Vidya -- Meditation as taught by the god Varuna
Taittiriya Upanishad, Bhriguvalli

Nyaasa Vidya -- Self-surrender
Taittiriya Narayanam, 49-52

Paramapurusha Vidya -- Brahman as the Supreme Person
Katha Upanishad, I.iii
Naciketa Vidya -- Meditation with the Naciketa fire
Katha Upanishad, I.ii
Angushta-pramita Vidya -- Brahman as resident within the Heart, of the size of the Thumb
Katha Upanishad, II.iv.12

Paryanka Vidya -- Brahman as the highest God seated in the Supreme Abode
Kau****aki Upanishad, I
Pratardana Vidya -- Meditation as taught to Pratardana by the god Indra
Kau****aki Upanishad, III
Baalaaki Vidya -- Meditation as taught to Baalaaki
Kau****aki Upanishad, IV

Aksharapara Vidya -- Meditation on the Imperishable
Mundaka Upanishad, I

Isavasya Vidya -- Meditation as taught in the Isavasya Upanishad
Isavasya Upanishad

In each Vidya, Brahman is meditated in a different way. Some of this characteristics or qualities of Brahman are highlighted and worshipped in each Vidya. Brahman is conceived in one way, in one vidya,and in another way, with some other qualities, in another vidya, and so on. Like the proverb "All ways lead to Rome", here also, these are only different ways of meditating on Brahman.The objective of all these vidyas is to attain Brahman i.e., salvation.

There are conditions or restrictions or 7 types for taking up Bhakti Yoga:
1.Body purity has to be maintained, by avoiding impure and unclean food.
2.We have to be free from desires. We should not, desire any material things, like wealth and pleasures. Of course, if God gives, we aeeept them, as His gift.
3.Frequent meditation of the Lord, in the form you cherish.
4.Performing the rites and duties, as prescribed in the sastras.
5.Kindness and compassion towards all beings; not injuring any human being or animal, even by thoughts or words (apart from deeds).
6. To be in a cheerful and calm state of mind.
7. To be free from pride or egoism (ahankara)

There is no specific duration or period, during which these vidyas have to be practised. Each person can choose a particular vidya and go on practising it. The Bhakti Yoga is completed in one birth or it may not be over in one birth. The Bhakti, in the form of vidya, may have to be continued in two or three or several births.

There is a chance of delay in the attainment of moksha, by adopting Bhakti Yoga. Salvation may be at the end of this life, or it may require several births. So, normally, in the present days, Bhakti Yoga is not practised.

I got informations at http://www.srivaishnavan.com/ans_karma.html#1

Regards,
Orlando.

ramkish42
20 April 2006, 12:02 PM
Great work. I will add your reputation for this