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Baobobtree
04 July 2007, 11:57 PM
I understand Smartist Hindus don't actually accept converts to Hinduism. This is a bit saddening to me, since I was raised as an Anglican Christian, but now consider myself a Smartist Hindu. As a result I have a few questions-

1. Would a practicing Smartist Guru accept me as his disciple?

2. If I were to raise my kids as Smartist, would they be considered Hindus by the Smarta tradition even if I'm not?

3. Would I be aloud into a Smarta temple?

Thanks in advance

-Baobobtree.

sm78
05 July 2007, 01:29 AM
Namaste Baobobtree,

Welcome to the forum. Though I have some idea of the answers, I have posted your question to a smarta Guru. If and when he replies to your questions, I shall post them here. I am myself curious of the exact rule in an authentic* smartha lineage for acceptance.

Regards.

*

narayanam padma-bhavam vashishtham
shaktim cha tat putra parasharam cha
vyasam shukam gauda-padam mahantam
govinda yogindram athasya shishyam
shri shankara charyam athasya padma
padam cha hastamalakam cha shishyam
tam trotakam vartika karam anyan
asmad gurun santata manatosmi
shruti smriti pura-na-nam alayam karuna-layam
namami bhagavat padam shankaram loka shankaram
shankaram shankaracharyam keshavam badarayanam
sutra bhashya kritau vande bhagavaktau punah punah

Agnideva
05 July 2007, 12:04 PM
Namaste Baobobtree,

I don’t know too much about orthodox Smarta Hinduism, but many gurus of the Advaita Vedanta lineages do take disciples. I don’t know if there is any formal conversion per Smarta rules. Here in the US, Swami Dayananda Saraswati of Arsha Vidya Gurukulam has both monks and lay followers of western origin. This is in addition to the various Vedanta Missions, which are more universalist in nature.

As for temples, if you live in North America, most of the Hindu temples are actually Smarta temples, unless they say otherwise, and many of the priests are Smartas. And, all temples in the Western Hinduism (unlike in India) are open to all people from all walks of life.

OM Shanti,
A.

yajvan
05 July 2007, 07:30 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

I understand Smartist Hindus don't actually accept converts to Hinduism. This is a bit saddening to me, since I was raised as an Anglican Christian, but now consider myself a Smartist Hindu. As a result I have a few questions-

1. Would a practicing Smartist Guru accept me as his disciple?

2. If I were to raise my kids as Smartist, would they be considered Hindus by the Smarta tradition even if I'm not?

3. Would I be aloud into a Smarta temple?

Thanks in advance -Baobobtree.

Namaste Baobobtree,
Here is a simple post... this does not answer your question, but tought to share it with you.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1256

sm78
06 July 2007, 02:04 AM
Here is the reply i received ...


A smArta is one who follows smrtis and has undergone the samskaras prescribed by the smrti. Now, one may now undergo some of these samskaras but what about those like garbhAdAna etc which are done prior to birth? So technically, the answer would be 'no' as the relation here is not only to belief or practice but to birth and also the place of birth as also the parents. Varnashrama system is the basis of smArta samskriti and thus, only four varnas form its constituents. mleccha, yavana and other varnas would not technically fit into this four varna scheme. But there have been some Gurus who have allowed smArta practices for non-Hindus like in the case of David Frawley.

As far as temple admittance is concerned there are some temples in India which will not allow non-hindus or even converted hindus in.

But these are few (Puri Jagannath Temple frequently comes into news for this), many or most allow entrance of non-hindus.

Agnideva
06 July 2007, 10:15 AM
Namaste SM,

A smArta is one who follows smrtis and has undergone the samskaras prescribed by the smrti. Now, one may now undergo some of these samskaras but what about those like garbhAdAna etc which are done prior to birth? So technically, the answer would be 'no' as the relation here is not only to belief or practice but to birth and also the place of birth as also the parents. Varnashrama system is the basis of smArta samskriti and thus, only four varnas form its constituents. mleccha, yavana and other varnas would not technically fit into this four varna scheme. But there have been some Gurus who have allowed smArta practices for non-Hindus like in the case of David Frawley.So this means that a person who is not a Smarta can never become one in this life, is that correct? One can choose to follow Smarta practices in this life, but really to become a smarta, one has to be born within such a family and go through all the samskaras (sacraments) starting with garbhadana.


As far as temple admittance is concerned there are some temples in India which will not allow non-hindus or even converted hindus in.Many times I have wondered about this. What is the real reason behind not allowing non-Hindus into temples and especially converted Hindus who proclaim faith in Hinduism? I wonder if this has something to do with extrapolation of Smarta rules (like above) that say one can never become a Hindu except by birth.

OM Shanti,
A.

sm78
06 July 2007, 11:20 AM
Hi Agnideva,

Your conclusions are true. Though what constitutes a smarta is a tricky questions. I think these rules now apply only to very small section of the Hindu population, since though varnashrama is still prevalent and thus technically most Hindus are smartas by birth, but hardly by practice :).

The person I asked this question is direct disciple in the lineage of Sringeri Sharada Peetham. Unlike the adwaita vedanta swamis (Shivanada for example), the direct lineage of one the 5 mathas are much more orthodox and I refer to them as smarta. It also follows the guru lineage Yajvan once posted. Thus smarta is more of restricted term for me.

About Temple Entrance:-

There can be many reasons ~ I think it must be an dire necessity in the Muslim times. But it is smarta influenced rule no doubt.

satay
06 July 2007, 01:14 PM
namaste,

With the utmost respect for tradition, in my humble opinion, this doesn't make any sense. How can we say on the one hand that everyone born in essense is a hindu but chooses different religion due to environment or karma etc. and on the other hand say that he can not convert to this one particular tradition?

Our current global situation demands that this practice of not allowing outsiders be reviewed and others who are not born to Indian parents be allowed the courtesy of taking up the tradition if they so choose.

I will probably get hit on the head for saying this but we need to examine who are the real malecchas and yavanas in our society!

Dr. Fawley has already opened the way into this tradition. Why close it for others? Why not keep it open?

IMHO, varnasram and caste system are being mixed up in the response that you provided SM. Don't you think?

Varna ashram system applies to the whole of humanity not just Indians.

Agnideva
06 July 2007, 02:38 PM
Namaste All,


The person I asked this question is direct disciple in the lineage of Sringeri Sharada Peetham. Unlike the adwaita vedanta swamis (Shivanada for example), the direct lineage of one the 5 mathas are much more orthodox and I refer to them as smarta. It also follows the guru lineage Yajvan once posted. Thus smarta is more of restricted term for me.
SM, you are right. The term Smarta technically applies to a very small section of the Hindu population per that definition, and not all Advaita Vedanta followers, monks or lay, are Smartas. There may also be other restrictions to definition of Smarta, such as performing daily Panchayatana Puja.


...I think it must be an dire necessity in the Muslim times.I think in Puri, this is the case, and I believe there are records that indicate when this practice began.


With the utmost respect for tradition, in my humble opinion, this doesn't make any sense. How can we say on the one hand that everyone born in essense is a hindu but chooses different religion due to environment or karma etc. and on the other hand say that he can not convert to this one particular tradition?
I don't know that this particular tradition says everyone is born a Hindu in essence. In fact, even if one didn't have all the samskaras per the smritis, one in not a Hindu, if I am understanding correctly.


Dr. Fawley has already opened the way into this tradition. Why close it for others? Why not keep it open?Yes! Why stop at David Frawley?

OM Shanti,
A.

Arvind Sivaraman
12 July 2007, 04:17 AM
I understand Smartist Hindus don't actually accept converts to Hinduism. This is a bit saddening to me, since I was raised as an Anglican Christian, but now consider myself a Smartist Hindu. As a result I have a few questions-

1. Would a practicing Smartist Guru accept me as his disciple?

2. If I were to raise my kids as Smartist, would they be considered Hindus by the Smarta tradition even if I'm not?

3. Would I be aloud into a Smarta temple?

Thanks in advance

-Baobobtree.

Om Shirdi Sai Ram.
Namaste.
In my opinion kindly do not change your religion.
Saints insist on this point.
The goal of life is to be a self realised soul.
Hence follow the holy scriptures which each religion suggests.
A Rose called by any other name is still a Rose.Its fragrance is the same.
Similary stick to your own religion,the Fragrance which all religion insists is universal love.
For this Patience and Perseverance is a must.

Baobobtree
12 July 2007, 03:36 PM
I'd like to thank you all for your answers (especially SM for going ahead and actually asking a Smarta Guru for me).


Om Shirdi Sai Ram.
Namaste.
In my opinion kindly do not change your religion.
Saints insist on this point.
The goal of life is to be a self realised soul.
Hence follow the holy scriptures which each religion suggests.
A Rose called by any other name is still a Rose.Its fragrance is the same.
Similary stick to your own religion,the Fragrance which all religion insists is universal love.
For this Patience and Perseverance is a must. Jai Sai Ram my fellow Baba devotee. I thank you for the wise words, but I really don't find my beliefs to be in line with traditional Christian theology, so I don't see how I can call myself a Christian.

Agnideva
12 July 2007, 04:24 PM
Namaste Baobobtree,

I really don't find my beliefs to be in line with traditional Christian theology, so I don't see how I can call myself a Christian.
If your belief in Hinduism is closest to the Smarta branch, and they will not officially allow anyone to become a Smarta, that still does not mean you cannot follow that branch in your personal practice. Sanatana Dharma is a free and open system, and lack of interest of the part of Smartas to officially bring others into that denomination should not stop you from pursuing your beliefs further. This is my opinion only.

OM Shanti,
A.

sm78
16 July 2007, 01:26 AM
Jai Sai Ram my fellow Baba devotee. I thank you for the wise words, but I really don't find my beliefs to be in line with traditional Christian theology, so I don't see how I can call myself a Christian.

This is the right attitude and makes rational sense. Surely one cannot call himself chirstian or muslim and yet claim to believe in rebirth and karma.

It is sad propaganda which arose in Hinduism towards the later part of the last millennium to patch up problems with other sects in India. Far from patching up things it has made Hinduism inherently weaker than it used to be.

About the smarta conversion, I am personally not very happy with the smarta standpoint. I think the reason for their strict adherence to varnashrama is for the sole purpose of protecting the Vedas. What Manu created, and what was reinforced strongly by the great Ved Vyas had the sole purpose of protecting the roots of the vedic culture. The name smarta inhereits the same purpose...to remember the origins of our culture through time.

Given this main purpose of protection of the vedic civilization, ban on conversion is quite contrary to this purpose in the current Yuga. I personally believe that if Srmiad Acharya himself was present at this moment, he would have advised differently...

That said, smarta practices cannot be forbidden to others...it's that u wud still not be called a brahmin by the orthodox cummunity...how does it matter outside India ??

Khadgar
08 September 2007, 02:26 AM
Don't constrict yourself to labels. Labels mean nothing, it is all about choice of action and intention. If there was one thing Lord Krishna taught above all else, it was that. So, if you choose the smarta path, follow specific practices regardless of what the other 'by birth' smartas call you. You don't need to heed them because in practice and in truth, you're every bit as smarta as them. As for not being allowed in those temples. They're ultimately negligble... spirituality comes from within. If you have the power to, I'd say build your own temple, to you that holy place will be more magnificient and awe inspiring than those would-be exclusive temples.

Lokavidu
15 July 2017, 09:29 AM
Om Shirdi Sai Ram.
Namaste.
In my opinion kindly do not change your religion.
Saints insist on this point.
The goal of life is to be a self realised soul.
Hence follow the holy scriptures which each religion suggests.
A Rose called by any other name is still a Rose.Its fragrance is the same.
Similary stick to your own religion,the Fragrance which all religion insists is universal love.
For this Patience and Perseverance is a must.


Namaste
In my opinions: if everyone must not or cant change religion that he/she must follow his/her parents religion then Christianity and Buddhism can not exist because Jesus didnt born in Christian family, Buddha didnt born in Buddhist family..if you make an exception then it is a special pleading logical fallacy..

But it doesnt mean you can convert to anyreligion easily or hope that everyone will accept you.
Here is interesting story when Kanchi Jagadguru met Japanese Vedanta Professor
http://kamakoti.org/kamakoti/stotra/acharyascall/bookview.php?chapnum=64

Prof Nakamura didnt ask how to be converted into Smarta Sampradaya... prof spoke in sanskrit to Jagadguru..He asked about Vedanta material and Jagadguru answered him clearly and gave prasadam also..
So in my opinion you still can learn vedanta and the Smarta Authorithy can appreciate you if you show your interest genuinely without being a formalized smarta brahmin... You can hope and pray to Bhagavan and learn vedanta as much as you can so you can be born in smarta brahmin in the next life..

There is also Ekalavya story.Though Dronacharya refused to teach him because of his low birth status, Ekalavya has great guru bhakti toward Drona, he studied archery by himself and then he excelled Arjuna skill in archery, and Dronacharya realized his skill.and Dronacharya accepted him as student.
.

The Artis Magistra
15 July 2017, 06:09 PM
I think everything in your story is precise, this whole ordeal exists specifically for you to think, learn, and resolve it. You were not made from your background by accident, attracted to a thibg you feel will never truly accept you by accident. You have been granted the unique gift of this story, to make into an even better story, if you can.