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yajvan
30 July 2007, 05:27 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste,

I thought to add a few things on a point that sarabhanga brought up in his last post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=14208&postcount=2 as we where discussing nakshatra's, etc.

Here's a few more ideas. We can go further if one wishes to on the yuga conversation if warranted. Please add to this as you see fit. It seemed like the Jyotish folder would be the best home for this conversation.

Our earth tilts at 23 1/2° and points to the star Polaris ( Ursae Minoris. the north star) - This tilt then rotates like a top; every 26,000 years we have a new North Star. We are now heading to a new star, it is Vega. This is precession. So in about another 14,000 years Vega will be our 'Polaris' once again. Vega ( meaning swooping eagle in Arabic; also Alpha Lyrae ) is about 25 light years from here, close to home.
Now, Sri Yukteswar as we know him as Swami Yogananda's Guru , Kriya Yoga Foundation, suggest this 26,000 year cycle is more like 24,000 years.
Swami Yuktesswar is of the opinion that this ossolation , this precession, brings our earth between the greatest to the least dharma that manifests on this good earth.
His work, The Holy Science, is based upon this 24,000 to 26,000 year period and how it relates to the 4 yugas. As many think we are currently in Kali, yet for Swami-ji his calculations suggest we have been in Dwapara Yuga for 307 years, as this yuga began in 1700.
Swamiji's measuring stick is 1200 years for kali, 2400 years ( or 2 x Kali years) for Dwapara, 3600 years ( 3 x Kali) for Treta, and 4800 years ( 4 x kali) for Satya Yuga. Add these up and you get 12,000 years. This waxing and waning of the 24,000 years, in 12,000 year segments. If one reads his book it shows his audit trail and logic behind his thinking.Interesting insights that give us a sense of where we're going:

We make one rotation on earth's axis each day - that means our speed is ~1,041 MPH (1,675 KPH)
We travel around the sun - the total trip = 584,336,233 miles (+/-) (940,395,674 km); this works out to be 66,936 MPH (107,723 KPH)
Our solar system is on an angle of 62 1/2° to the Milky way. We are about 2/3's of the way out from the center of the galactic center and we set about 20 light years above the horizontal plane that runs across the galactic edge.
This galaxy is 100,000 light years across and ~ 7,000 light years thick ( they think )
Our rotation of our solar system around the Milky Way takes about 250 million years so the scientists say. Some think this center is Vishnunabhi or the center, naval of Vishu, the maintainer of all 'this'
Some great pictures to give you a perspective of where we live: http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html (http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html)With all this cosmic travel, do you sense or feel any movement? Yet the rishi's of Parahsara's time were able to cognize this information and create Joytish knowledge and insights on all this movement and what it means to the beings on earth.


I say It is in space, It is in every nook and corner, in every pinpoint of space. There is no space where It is not; there is no space which It does not occupy." Risi SANATKUMARA, Chhandogya Upanishad 3.24

pranams,

sarabhanga
31 July 2007, 09:03 AM
Namaste Yajvan,

There is an annual precessional advance of about 50 angular seconds, which amounts to 1 degree in 72 years, 30 degrees in 2,160 years, 60 degrees in 4,320 years, and 360 degrees in 25,920 years.

The actual period slightly variable, but the present value is about 25,826 years.

The traditional figure of 25,920 and its various factors appear repeatedly in calculations of cosmic ages, aeons, and eras.

And in this ‘Great Year’ there are reckoned 360 ‘Days’ of 72 years, 12 ‘Months’ of 2,160 years, and 6 ‘Seasons’ of 4,320 years.

The Mahabharata gives 432,000 years as the extent of the Present Age (Kali-Yuga), which is equivalent to 100 ‘Great Seasons’ (16.6 ‘Years’), and this Kaliyuga would therefore experience 33 full cycles of (supposed) waxing and waning dharma before its conclusion.

Yuga also means Four, and the extent of previous Ages in a quadruple cycle has been calculated by multiplying 432 by its own digits (4, 3, and 2).

And so, with a basic period of 432,000 years, the other Yugas are 864,000 years (Dvapara), 1,296,000 years (Treta), and 1,728,000 years (Satya).

One Mahayuga (a complete cycle of all the Four Yugas) would thus span 4,320,000 years.


Swamiji's measuring stick is 1200 years for kali, 2400 years ( or 2 x Kali years) for Dwapara, 3600 years ( 3 x Kali) for Treta, and 4800 years ( 4 x kali) for Satya Yuga. Add these up and you get 12,000 years.
Svami Yukteshvar has reduced the whole Mahayuga to approximately 6 ‘Months’ in the precessional ‘Year’, so that all 4 Yugas represent a continual decline in Dharma. And after this degenerating Mahayuga there must be an opposite Mahayuga of continually increasing Dharma, during which the sequence of Yugas is reversed. :headscratch:

The currently estimated time for half a precessional cycle is actually 12,913 years.

Now, I assume that Vega, as the pole-star, indicates the high point in earthly Dharma. And Polaris (our current pole-star) is almost exactly opposed to Vega, so I assume that we must right now be at the lowest ebb in earthly Dharma (i.e. at the close of Kaliyuga).


As many think we are currently in Kali, yet for Swami-ji his calculations suggest we have been in Dwapara Yuga for 307 years, as this yuga began in 1700.
This suggestion really makes no sense to me!

The attached figure shows the apparently fixed point of Polaris, and the path that the northern celestial pole actually circumscribes during the Earth’s 26,000 year precession. And the truly fixed point at the centre of this (unmarked by any star, and from our small perspective always moving) is revealed! :)

Thuban (Alpha Draconis) was the pole-star in about 2,700 BC, and Vega is just off the top of the map.

yajvan
31 July 2007, 03:46 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan,

There is an annual precessional advance of about 50 angular seconds, which amounts to 1 degree in 72 years, 30 degrees in 2,160 years, 60 degrees in 4,320 years, and 360 degrees in 25,920 years.

The actual period slightly variable, but the present value is about 25,826 years. The traditional figure of 25,920 and its various factors appear repeatedly in calculations of cosmic ages, aeons, and eras . And in this ‘Great Year’ there are reckoned 360 ‘Days’ of 72 years, 12 ‘Months’ of 2,160 years, and 6 ‘Seasons’ of 4,320 years. The Mahabharata gives 432,000 years as the extent of the Present Age (Kali-Yuga), which is equivalent to 100 ‘Great Seasons’ (16.6 ‘Years’), and this Kaliyuga would therefore experience 33 full cycles of (supposed) waxing and waning dharma before its conclusion. Yuga also means Four, and the extent of previous Ages in a quadruple cycle has been calculated by multiplying 432 by its own digits (4, 3, and 2).
And so, with a basic period of 432,000 years, the other Yugas are 864,000 years (Dvapara), 1,296,000 years (Treta), and 1,728,000 years (Satya). One Mahayuga (a complete cycle of all the Four Yugas) would thus span 4,320,000 years.

Svami Yukteshvar has reduced the whole Mahayuga to approximately 6 ‘Months’ in the precessional ‘Year’, so that all 4 Yugas represent a continual decline in Dharma. And after this degenerating Mahayuga there must be an opposite Mahayuga of continually increasing Dharma, during which the sequence of Yugas is reversed. :headscratch:
The currently estimated time for half a precessional cycle is actually 12,913 years.
Now, I assume that Vega, as the pole-star, indicates the high point in earthly Dharma. And Polaris (our current pole-star) is almost exactly opposed to Vega, so I assume that we must right now be at the lowest ebb in earthly Dharma (i.e. at the close of Kaliyuga).
This suggestion really makes no sense to me!
The attached figure shows the apparently fixed point of Polaris, and the path that the northern celestial pole actually circumscribes during the Earth’s 26,000 year precession. And the truly fixed point at the centre of this (unmarked by any star, and from our small perspective always moving) is revealed! :)
Thuban (Alpha Draconis) was the pole-star in about 2,700 BC, and Vega is just off the top of the map.

Namaste Sarabhanga,
Yes you bring important points on precession of the equinoxes as its called... measured at 50 seconds of an arc as you mention. There are several opinions on the 'correct' number and I outline the ones in vogue today.
This is one reason why Jyotish is different the western astrology. Western astrology does not consider the 'march' backwards around the zodiac. At one time both were in sync, and once the Jyotish completes its 360 ° march both will sync up again. Jyotish is a sidereal based system as we know.

What is the precession per year? - these are the most commonly used today.

1. 50.23 sec of an arc = 0°00'50.23' = 68.92590465 years per 1° of movement for a complete cycle; 360° x 68.92590465 years per 1° of movement = 24,813.326 years.

2. 50.25 sec of an arc = 68.89952153 years per per 1° of movement; 360° x 68.89952153 =24,803.827 years for a complete cycle

3. 50.00 sec of an arc = 72 years per 1° of movement; 360° X 72 years = 25,920 for a complete cycle

4. So if 26,000 years (exactly) requires 72.222 years for every 1 degree of precession; Hence a yearly movement of 50.1543 sec of an arc is needed to get to 26,000 years.

All these calculations do not include any additional nutation's ( bumps and bruises from gravity, etc). NASA kinda favors the 26,000 year mark so points 3 & 4 from a scientific orientation is offered.

re: Kali Yuga Today
Yes, this is my knowledge too... Kali Began on the day Krsna left this earth. 3102 BC or 3106 BC if my memory serves me correctly. Swami Yukteshvar's numbers do not align, but I welcome a different point of view. On another Forum, this one point brought much angst on Yugas ad many followed Swami'ji's path, so it was a sensitive subject.

I think being open minded to the notion of calculations is best, yet when I look around the world, to me, in my assessment of what Yudhisthira points out as Kali yuga, it sure lines up with Yudhisthira's comments.

Next stop , Vega
Yes, this is my understanding also; that Vega gives us the greatest value of Dharma to manifest.
Yet along the way it should increase with time as we inch closer to this point, yet done in a circular motion. What I mean to say is, our axis does not cut across from Polaris in the X axis ( linear) to Vega, but does it in an arcing motion, so other stars that are close to the axis will be the new pole star(s) along the way.

Wanting to See all this in Consciousness?
Patanjali-muni has a sutra for seeing all the motions of the stars. One would need to know how to perform/invoke samyama with a clear mind during dhyana (dhyaana); one would practice samyama on 'polestar'
and this will reveal the motion of the stars.


Thank you again for your post.

pranams,

Nuno Matos
31 July 2007, 05:06 PM
Namaste Yajvan and Sarabhanga

Hi!
I am a little confused with your debate, but very interested.
Does the actual movement of the earth (solar system) goes north (ascending) or south (descending) trough east or trough west in it´s circular movement? For me seems quite clear that it is a circular spiral movement and i agree that in a spiral movement there are many situational poles.
What is dharma for one could be adharma for some other and i think that is true even on the great spiritual platform that is Hinduism. I am remembering some high principle of the Kula doctrine that says that Kula and Akula are the same thing.
I would like to add that according to science what we have in the center of the galaxie is a big black hole, ultimately we are all heading into a big black hole in the end and that leaves we with another question how do we articulate a black hole withe Hindu general metaphysics and jothish? You Yajvan equate that same black hole with Vishnou (hari) center but let me remind you that that is the view of some one outside the black hole looking at its horizont in its inside is more like Shiva Maheshvara.
Please forgive me if i look to much flippant may your knowledge enlighten my ignorance.



Om namah shivaya!

sarabhanga
31 July 2007, 11:18 PM
Namaste Yajvan,

72 years per 1° of movement (and thus 25,920 years for a complete cycle) was long ago determined by the Rishis; and the current scientific estimate is only slightly less. The difference is insignificant here, and even Svami Yukteshvar's approximation of a 24,000 year cycle (while losing some traditional numerological significance) is not a serious problem.

What I cannot understand is how the Svami-ji's theory of dharmic oscillation could say that we are at the close of Kaliyuga (due to association with Polaris) and yet at the same time say that we have only just entered the Dvaparayuga (?) And the idea of two alternating types of Mahayuga ~ one running from Satyayuga to Kaliyuga, and the other in dharmic reverse from Kaliyuga back to Satyayuga ~ is interesting, but unsupported by any scriptural tradition (so far as I know).

yajvan
31 July 2007, 11:40 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan,

72 years per 1░ of movement (and thus 25,920 years for a complete cycle) was long ago determined by the Rishis; and the current scientific estimate is only slightly less. The difference is insignificant here, and even Svami Yukteshvar's approximation of a 24,000 year cycle (while losing some traditional numerological significance) is not a serious problem.

What I cannot understand is how the Svami-ji's theory of dharmic oscillation could say that we are at the close of Kaliyuga (due to association with Polaris) and yet at the same time say that we have only just entered the Dvaparayuga (?) And the idea of two alternating types of Mahayuga ~ one running from Satyayuga to Kaliyuga, and the other in dharmic reverse from Kaliyuga back to Satyayuga ~ is interesting, but unsupported by any scriptural tradition (so far as I know).

Namaste Sarabhanga,
re: 72 years... I concur, as the differences in years are meager.

For a time, late 70's and early 80's, the total number used to be considered 26,800. I point this out as it has been a point of discussion since I started Jyotish.
One point worth consideration ... the earth is slowing down over time. This will impact the precession per year number. Over time, as the moon moves away from the earth year-in and year-out, the earth slows its rotation, the drag from the oceans slow us down overall, etc., etc. So , just like a top that slows down, it's wobble back and forth slows also. I offer this as a POV and not to challange any of the findings we have laid out...
Some may say, the change is so small. Yes, agree, yet the timeframes we're measuring are so big too! One trip around the galaxy at ~ 220 million years , we will see this ossolation take its toll on this precession.

re: Swami-ji's therory on dharma, where we are at in the progress to Vega, etc. Yes, I scratch my head on this too. I have looked at this for some time, and have left it for others to ponder. I come up with conjecture's that I do not even believe when I wake up the next day and think it through!

Thank you for your insightful posts.

pranams,

sarabhanga
01 August 2007, 06:57 AM
The whole sky turns endlessly in a great whirlpool whose one still point is the North Star.

The focus of the northern sky, however, is not entirely fixed, shifting slowly with the Earth's 26,000 year cycle of precession; and the North Star is now Polaris, although a star known as Thuban (Alpha Draconis) was the Pole Star in about 2,700 BC ~ and it was the sole guide available to those travelling at sea in the dark of night.

Ancient Sumerians are credited with inventing the wheel, and their principal deity was Anu ~ the great arc of the whole of the Sky. They knew the celestial wheel to be driven by a single golden shaft of light, and this navigator's star (the Anu-Svara) continues to pilot sailors across unmarked oceans to their ultimate destination.

The names of deities were always prefixed with a star pictogram in Sumerian cuneiform script; and in Egyptian hieroglyphics the five-pointed star is pronounced SiVA.

The North Star pierces the navel of Heaven, and it was the first sacred Omphalos. And sacrifice is yet made to the 'Om-Phallus' or Siva-Linga (the Auspicious Mark), which is similarly wreathed by a (five-headed) serpent.

Santa derives from Sanskrit and indicates Peace, Calm, and Stillness, and thus it names a man who has stilled his passions and become a veritable Fixture in heaven ~ a Saint.

Time is measured by observing the spinning discus of space; but the Santa is timeless, his position is fixed, and his direction is always true (north).

Santa Ni-Kala is Stillness in Time, the Timeless Support of Time itself, and is identical with Mahakala ~ Beyond Time.

The chariot of Gods is conveyed by the spoked wheel of Heaven, and Kris Kringle is Christ of the Wheel (or Ring) ~ the driving axle of the sky's orbit, and the Šternal bolt which pins the cross of heavenly longitude. And the shaft must be Khristos (Anointed) for the easy passage of Time itself.

In calm reflexion, and with unclouded perception, the radiant jewels are revealed.

As it is Above, so it shall be reflected Below.

http://www.geocities.com/sarabhanga/Draco.jpg

Note that this is a mirror image of the previously attached plan of Draco (the Dragon or Serpent). Rather than being our normal view of the Heavens, it is a divine perspective, looking down from beyond the absolute stillness of the northern pole.

sarabhanga
01 August 2007, 07:01 AM
Namaste Nuno,

We are moving towards Cygnus (the Hamsa). Although, since the Earth is spinning on its own axis, and spinning around the Sun, and spinning around the Milky Way, it is difficult to pin down particular directions. But Cygnus apparently orbits about 45 degrees away from the northern celestial pole.

As Yajvan has mentioned, over very long periods of time our various spins will slow down, and the solar system will be gradually drawn into the singularity at the heart of our galaxy. But I assume that the Earth would already have been engulfed by the Sun long before that event horizon looms!

The Celestial Pole is a great Shiva linga, but the massive Black Hole that is the only truly fixed point in our whole galaxy is the greatest Linga of all!

Rudra (or Hara) remains unseen, but Hari is his manifest sign (or linga). ;)

Jigar
10 August 2007, 03:01 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste,

Interesting insights that give us a sense of where we're going:
We make one rotation on earth's axis each day - that means our speed is ~1,041 MPH (1,675 KPH)
We travel around the sun - the total trip = 584,336,233 miles (+/-) (940,395,674 km); this works out to be 66,936 MPH (107,723 KPH)
Our solar system is on an angle of 62 1/2° to the Milky way. We are about 2/3's of the way out from the center of the galactic center and we set about 20 light years above the horizontal plane that runs across the galactic edge.
This galaxy is 100,000 light years across and ~ 7,000 light years thick ( they think )
Our rotation of our solar system around the Milky Way takes about 250 million years so the scientists say. Some think this center is Vishnunabhi or the center, naval of Vishu, the maintainer of all 'this'
Some great pictures to give you a perspective of where we live: http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html (http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html)With all this cosmic travel, do you sense or feel any movement? Yet the rishi's of Parahsara's time were able to cognize this information and create Joytish knowledge and insights on all this movement and what it means to the beings on earth.


namaste,

Once, long ago, before there was such
a thing as time, the world was shrouded
in darkness.
Then came the splendor of light,
bringing life and love into the Universe,
and the Lord of Darkness retreated deep
into the shadows of the earth, plotting
his return to power....by banishing light
forever. But precious light is protected,
harbored into the souls of Unicorns, the
most mystical of all creatures.
Unicorns are safe from the Lord of
Darkness, they can only be found by
the purest of mortals....Such a mortal
is I, who lives in solitude with the
animals of the forest.
A beautiful girl named katu loves
with all of her heart. In their innocence, they
believe only goodness exists in the world.
Together they will learn there can be
no good without evil....No love without
hate....No heaven without hell....No light
without darkness.


maste nam,
Darkness