Why I am not a Hindu

[satay]

a critique on Hinduism and a nice well balanced answer, every hindu should read...

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/a_hindu_woman/

let's discuss it here after you have had a chance to read both articles.

[Ganeshprasad]

To conclude, I categorically reject major Hindu religious beliefs including the doctrine of the infallibility of the Vedas, varnashram dharma , moksha, karmavada, and avatarvada. I am not an admirer of Ram and Krishna, and I also do not believe in idol worship or the Hindu taboo of not eating beef. I support logical and scientific thinking; and a secular, rational morality based on human values of liberty, equality and fraternity. Therefore, I am not a Hindu by conviction, though I am a Hindu by birth.

I am a hindu for very reason he is not, frankly speaking I would not give him any importance except for people like them give a bad impression about dharma. He has no idea what dharma is.

Lets us consider what Krishna says in Bhagvat Gita chapter 16

The Supreme Lord said: Fearlessness, purity of heart, perseverance in the yoga of knowledge, charity, sense restraint, sacrifice, study of the scriptures, austerity, honesty; (16.01)

Nonviolence, truthfulness, absence of anger, renunciation, equanimity, abstaining from malicious talk, compassion for all creatures, freedom from greed, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; (16.02)

Splendor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, absence of malice, and absence of pride; these are the qualities of those endowed with divine virtues, O Arjuna. (16.03)

These are the qualities that our dharma enjoys us to imbibe, yes we may fail miserably matching those standards but that is our shortcomings. Dharma is based on truth and it is the truth we generally ignore for our own selfish satisfaction.

Consider his rational,
What is logical scientific thinking as regards to creation, that we are product of some big bang, a chance or coming from monkey, well Krishna knew about this well before the modern day thinkers ever dreamt of it. he calls them ashura. How will they understand Varnashram?

What human values does he propose? it is grand gesture but no real substance, liberty and equality is a far cry in most human society. We go to war on a pretext of liberating, we kill innocent being, mindlessly for scientific research, for decorating our skin, support thousands of abattoirs where millions of animals are slaughtered some times even half dead.
He calls himself humane.

Frankly after having been fully nourished, as a child, satisfied by the milk that the cow has provided, how can we call us humane, wanting to eat that gentles of creature!

Jai Gopal

[Znanna]

IMO, any who do not give Godz due respect are stuck in their own point of view.

At least the author didn't proclaim 'his' Godz better than 'their' Godz!


Namaste,
ZN

[sm78]

I am a hindu for very reason he is not, frankly speaking I would not give him any importance except for people like them give a bad impression about dharma. He has no idea what dharma is.



Ditto

[satay]

namaskar,
I like the 'answer to why I am not hindu' by 'a hindu woman'. Nicely done.

[Madhavan]

I am amazed an 'atheist hindu' comes forward to defend it. Not too many religions can boast of such a thing.

[willie]

Another long winded post that really didn't prove much either way.

So this guy won't pray before some image of statue, well a lot of people won't do that. I does not mean much.

Not believeing in some all powerful force, well that presents a problem.

All this talk about him not providing much proof, well some people only want to hear proof they agree with. Any other proof is called false an not not valid, which cuts off all discussion .

The vedas we have today are only about 4% of the original work so that is not really a good sample set of the information. It is a historical document but an incomplete one and no telling what the whole work would reveal about brahman.

[satay]

namaste Willie,


The vedas we have today are only about 4% of the original work so that is not really a good sample set of the information. It is a historical document but an incomplete one and no telling what the whole work would reveal about brahman.



Proof of your statement? Please share with us so that we can all examine.

Also, I think you keep changing the number. Where are you pulling this number off of?

[willie]

I believe it was sri swami sivananda who said the vedas were in 1180 recessions. And the version in sacred texts, which is considered to be a good translation seems to be quite a bit short of that number.

So if all the vedas are not around and the part that does exist are only a fraction of the original, then hinduism could have been , in the past , substantially different than what passed for hinduism today.

Not that this is either a good or bad thing but it leaves one wondering what is in the part that is not around.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~



... then hinduism could have been , in the past , substantially different than what passed for hinduism today.

Not that this is either a good or bad thing but it leaves one wondering what is in the part that is not around.


Hello Wille,
This is a reasonable assessment - as the term Hinduism, the name is colloquial by nature. More specifically, Sanatana Dharma is more adequate as the progression and advancement of Arsa Dharma - the Dharma of the rishi's.

So is it different then yesteryear? Perhaps as Dharma is different in various ages ( yugas).... Now different is not the insistence of a 'black to white' change - but that of how customs evolve over the ages.

What does not change - Tad Ekam - That One. and Sanatana Dharma's great respect for, appreciation of, and reaching this principle for the individual. What evolves over time is how one views Tad Ekam - and that is the 6 Systems of Indian Philosophy.


thank you,

[Hiwaunis]

Exactly how does one become a Hindu? I meditate, chant Shiva, Vishnu, Laxmi, Durga and Gayatri mantras as well as practice some kundalini awakening. I am vegetarian and celebate. Am I a Hindu?

[satay]

Exactly how does one become a Hindu?


By hanging upside down from a tree every morning. :D



I meditate, chant Shiva, Vishnu, Laxmi, Durga and Gayatri mantras as well as practice some kundalini awakening. I am vegetarian and celebate. Am I a Hindu?

yes.

ps: sorry couldn't resist the cruel joke.

[atanu]

Hari Om
~~~~~~
Hello Wille,
-------
What does not change - Tad Ekam - That One. and Sanatana Dharma's great respect for, appreciation of, and reaching this principle for the individual. What evolves over time is how one views Tad Ekam - and that is the 6 Systems of Indian Philosophy.


thank you,

Namaste All,

Nothing is hidden or everything is hidden. Whatever we know of Vedas, it is definitlely known that: By knowing Tad Ekam all else is known.

So, even if 99.99% of vedas are hidden, it will not matter. But for cynics of hardened mental bias, 100 % will be hidden for ever. Vedas only teach the fact of its obscuration and illumination from time to time. Knowing that all will be known when Self is known, is complete Veda. My POV.

Om

[satay]

Knowing that all will be known when Self is known, is complete Veda. My POV.

Om

or as socrates put it 'know thyself'

[willie]

I would say that knowing the self may not reveal that much. Mainly because I did not see it mentioned in the part of the vedas that are available.

What I am saying is that if a person had a way to travel backwards in time ,to a point where all of the vedas were still available. The if they could see them or get someone the tell about them . What would be found could substantially change the modern world.

I say this because as years pass the practice of religion changes and transfroms to meet the current need. If a christian or jew were transported to the modern world from 1000 years ago , it would be quite a shock to that person , as would a modern person going back 1000 years.



It is just amazing that there are so many different branches of hinduism in the modern world. Like this whole arguement about the atman being part of brahman or not part of brahman. Seems like this should have been settled long ago.

[saidevo]

Namaste Willie.

Some of your points are rational enough, though starkly material.



I would say that knowing the self may not reveal that much. Mainly because I did not see it mentioned in the part of the vedas that are available.

What I am saying is that if a person had a way to travel backwards in time ,to a point where all of the vedas were still available. The if they could see them or get someone the tell about them . What would be found could substantially change the modern world.

I say this because as years pass the practice of religion changes and transfroms to meet the current need. If a christian or jew were transported to the modern world from 1000 years ago , it would be quite a shock to that person , as would a modern person going back 1000 years.


This only shows that as the great cycle of Time revolves, people get more and more materialistic. From the days of the industrial revolution, when man started depending on machines, he started losing the capacity of spiritual thinking. Ironically, with machines doing the work, man should have more leisure to employ in fruitful pursuits, but this is not coming up because the machines rule over the man today. And man is so much obsessed with machines, blindly assuming that he is totally in-charge of them, that he is doing research to give them more and more power. Perhaps one day man would develop thinking and meditating robots!



It is just amazing that there are so many different branches of hinduism in the modern world. Like this whole arguement about the atman being part of brahman or not part of brahman. Seems like this should have been settled long ago.


The various branches of Hinduism have been anticipated right in the Vedas and Upanishads. Rig Veda says, 'Reality is the One and the wise call it by many names.' Rig Veda also exhorts people to 'Meet together, talk together (in an accommodative spirit, so as to give and take, to live and let live) and may your mind apprehend {the truth) alike.' In all vivAda (debates) among the various branches of Hinduism there is saMvAda (agreement, compromise) that God is One, man is part of Him, and the ways to realize it are many. From the monism and monotheism of the Vedas and the Upanishads sprang the plurality of Hindu worship, which is actually henotheism and not polytheism as many wrongly assume and mock at.

Ultimately, you and your boss (or dad, mum, friend, guru, anyone, even God) are the same. The difference lies only in knowledge, its application and realization.

satyam jnAnam anantam brahmA sings a popular Sai bhajan.

[atanu]

Mandukya
--------------------
7. He who is neither inward-wise, nor outward-wise, nor both inward- and outward-wise, nor wisdom self-gathered, nor possessed of wisdom, nor unpossessed of wisdom, He Who is unseen and incommunicable, unseizable, featureless, unthinkable, and unnameable, Whose essentiality is awareness of the Self in its single existence, in Whom all phenomena dissolve, Who is Calm,
Who is Good, Who is the One than Whom there is no other, Him they deem the fourth ; He is the Self, He is the object of Knowledge.
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Gita
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Adhyaatma jnaana nityatwam tattwa jnaanaartha darshanam;
Etajjnaanamiti proktam ajnaanam yadato’nyathaa.

12. Constancy in Self-knowledge, perception of the end of true knowledge—this is declared to be knowledge, and what is opposed to it is ignorance.

Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;
Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.

13. I will declare that which has to be known, knowing which one attains to immortality, the beginningless supreme Brahman, called neither being nor non-being.

---------------------------

Dhyaanenaatmani pashyanti kechidaatmaanamaatmanaa;
Anye saankhyena yogena karmayogena chaapare.

25. Some by meditation behold the Self in the Self by the Self, others by the Yoga of knowledge, and others by the Yoga of action.

Anye twevamajaanantah shrutwaanyebhya upaasate;
Te’pi chaatitarantyeva mrityum shrutiparaayanaah.

26. Others also, not knowing thus, worship, having heard of it from others; they, too, cross beyond death, regarding what they have heard as the supreme refuge.
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Some others wish to travel in time, to reach nowhere ---Since the past and the future is in the moment only and nowhere else. Leaving the moment and leaving the Self, one can only go to anyadevata.

Past is memory and futue is apprehension, both of the nature of thought.


Om Namah Shivaya