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orlando
24 April 2006, 05:33 PM
Namaste all.
I am a Sri vaishnava of Ramanuja-sampradaya.
I need information about my sadhana.
One can't recite Ramayana or do mantra-japa without first take a bath.
I know that I can't do mantra-japa in my rest room.
I know that I can do Ramanama in my rest room and without take a bath because Ramanama is beyond place and time.
I already do Ramanama.And I recite sanskrit prayes.
My question is:other than Rama-nama what can I do in my rest room and without take first a bath?
I can't take a bath a hundred times in a day!!1:(

Regards,
Orlando.

orlando
12 June 2006, 11:20 AM
Namaste all.
I already know that one musts take a bath before recite Ramayana and Vishnu Sahasranamam.I already know even one can't recite these in the rest room.
My questions is:can I recite shlokas and stotras from the Puranas and Mahabharata in my rest room and without the need of a bath?
Regards,
Orlando.

Sudarshan
12 June 2006, 12:42 PM
Why are you so much concerned about the "rest room"? Follow your instincts in this respect. Ideally, one should have both mental and physical purity before doing any spiritual activity, but is not an infallible law. Only vedic rituals require strict compliance with such rules, for other activities it maybe relaxed if necessary. Rest room activities are only a few minutes a day only isn't it? Cant you just remain idle during that time?;)

ramkish42
12 June 2006, 01:43 PM
Namaste all.
I already know that one musts take a bath before recite Ramayana and Vishnu Sahasranamam.I already know even one can't recite these in the rest room.
My questions is:can I recite shlokas and stotras from the Puranas and Mahabharata in my rest room and without the need of a bath?
Regards,
Orlando.

Rama mantra is the only mantra that can be recieted without any heed to place and time. This is what I know as a Vaishnav, I will check with other Shaiva Siddantins about their view on this and will try to post their views also if possible

Bathing etc: Many has a practise of doing Prahtha Sandya on time, irrespective of the fact whether bathed or not, but Maadyanika is done only after bathing (Two italics are daily rituals of trai varnis) - as the practise goes, Sandayvandana has mantras extracted from Puranas (Gayathri mantra is receited in few puranas also) and from Mahabharatha (Shanka chakra gadapane etc), hence I safely conclude that Puranas and Mahabharata can be read even without taking bath. The idea of puranas and itihasas is to inculcate knowledge by explaining what are Vedic teachings without referring much to Vedic words, hence is not limited by angasuddi but limited only by antrasuddi / praanasuddi

orlando
20 December 2006, 12:43 PM
Why are you so much concerned about the "rest room"? Follow your instincts in this respect. Ideally, one should have both mental and physical purity before doing any spiritual activity, but is not an infallible law. Only vedic rituals require strict compliance with such rules, for other activities it maybe relaxed if necessary. Rest room activities are only a few minutes a day only isn't it? Cant you just remain idle during that time?;)

Namaste all.
I have to tell you a thing about the "rest room".
I don't know English perfectly.Because of the word "rest" I did believe that rest room did mean bed room!!
By watching a film I discovered that actually "rest room" is the room where one goes to the toilet.
Ehehehehehe!!!!:) :D :Roll:
My true questions was:can I recite shlokas and stotras from the Puranas and Mahabharata in my bed-room?

Regards,
Orlando.

Mukunda
24 December 2006, 02:04 AM
In Kaliyaga the best way is to chant Hare Krishna (Kali santarana Upanishad ) no Regulations & Rules.
1. Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
2. These sixteen names (words) are destructive of the evil effects of Kali. No better means than this is to be seen in all the Vedas.
These (sixteen names) destroy the Avarana (or the centripetal force which produces the sense of individuality) of Jiva surrounded by the sixteen Kalas (rays). Then like the sphere of the sun which shines fully after the clouds (screening it) disperse, Parabrahman (alone) shines."
Narada asked: ‘O Lord, what are the rules to be observed with reference to it ?" To which Brahma replied that there were no rules for it. Whoever in a pure or an impure state, utters these always, attains the same world of, or proximity with, or the same form of, or absorption into Brahma.

Also in Bhagavatam
11.5.41
O King, one who has given up all material duties and has taken full shelter of the lotus feet of Mukunda, who offers shelter to all, is not indebted to the demigods, great sages, ordinary living beings, relatives, friends, mankind or even one’s forefathers who have passed away. Since all such classes of living entities are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, one who has surrendered to the Lord’s service has no need to serve such persons separately.
11.14.20
My dear Uddhava, the unalloyed devotional service rendered to Me by My devotees brings Me under their control. I cannot be thus controlled by those engaged in mystic yoga, Säìkhya philosophy, pious work, Vedic study, austerity or renunciation.
11.14.22
Neither religious activities endowed with honesty and mercy nor knowledge obtained with great penance can completely purify one’s consciousness if they are bereft of loving service to Me.

yajvan
24 December 2006, 03:48 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Orlando,

Your questions are reasonable... let me ask,
What do you do upon waking? what is your first thought of the day?
This is in your bed-rest room yes? * Astrologically the bedroom is seen from the 12th house, a moksha house, a house of rest.
For me, the first thought is of Ram. I thought this would be uplifting to bring as a post and answer what can one do in one's bed-room, first thing, during Brahmamuhurta:

The Padma-purana, it says " ramante yogino-nante brahmaanande chidaatmani " or ' The one in whose memory yogis revel in the bliss of brahman'. Its the mantra that brings bliss. As bija, we know it as Ram or Rama.


Brahm Mantra
Om Hrim Rama Jay Ram Jay Jay Rama
Rama - as defined in the dictionary of Indian philosophy -"Ram" " pleasing, to delight". 'ramante' (they revel, enjoy) is the action which forms the root verb for 'Rama'. Brahmarisi Vasishta hit upon the name for the child of Dasaratha because he knew that it was already a 'taraka-mantra' -- that is, the mantra which takes you across the ocean of samsara.

And that is why the name Rama has been isolated and earmarked some say to be equivalent to the whole of Vishnu sahasra-nam This Ram or Rama ( used by Vilmiki) has the boon of taraka or that that which can ferry you across; Tara from the 10 Great Cosmic Powers (A book from S.Shankaranarayanan, following in the Sri Aurobindo parampara) is the root word tr to traverse; one who crosses , tarati and others who help cross is trarayati.The sanskrit word taraka, denotes a star as it traverses in space and acts as a guiding light. A boat is called tari, as it allows one to cross over the waters.
But of what oceans are spiritually discussing? samsara (sr= "to flow" + sam = "together") - what flows together? birth-after-birth; Samskara ( now means sam + kr " to fashion or to do together" or latent impressions Patanjali discusses.
This Rama as taraka, can take one to cross over the river of birth after birth. It can be thought of first thing, last thing.
Jai Ram Jai Jai Rama

pranams

orlando
25 December 2006, 10:49 AM
Namaste all.
Shri Mukunda said:

In Kaliyaga the best way is to chant Hare Krishna (Kali santarana Upanishad ) no Regulations & Rules.

He quoted the Kali santarana Upanishad.

Please read the questions n.19,20,22,24,25,26 and 27 at http://www.srivaishnavan.com/faq_vedas.html and their answers at http://www.srivaishnavan.com/ans_vedas.html#19

As follower of Ramanuja-sampradaya I don't accept authoritatively Kali-Santarana Upanishad.

Shri Mukunda,please note that I don't mean at all to offend Gaudiya-sampradaya by writing this post.

Regards,
Orlando.

Mukunda
28 December 2006, 03:10 AM
PraNAm Orlando,

Even if one doesn't accept Kalisatarana upanishad we have to consider Lord Chaitanya's message about Hare krishna maha mantra.

Lord Chaitanya is avatar of Bhagavan Sri Krishna as it is metioned in Vedas/Puranas.
http://www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_1predictions.htm
http://www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_2predictions.htm


Please note that acharyas like Ramanujacharya, shankaracharya, madvacharya are all jivatatva where as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is bhagavan avatar. Jivatatva is never greater or knowledgeable than bhagavan. Whom should we follow ? who could understand vedas and guide people in right way better than bhagavan himself ?

Bhagavd Gita 15.15
vedaiç ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedänta-kåd veda-vid eva cäham
By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedänta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.

Also Lord chaitanya is not founder of gaudiya sampradaya nor did he preach to follow any sampradaya. All these sampradaya are founded by various acharyas(jivatatva).

What result one get by performing dyana in kruta yuga by performing yagna in treta yuga by performing archana or puja in dvapara yuga the same result one will get by chanting keshava in kaliyug --vishnu purana 6.2.17

Bhagavad Gita 10.25
yajïänäà japa-yajïo ’smi
Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa],

Bhagavad Gita 9.14
satataà kértayanto mäà
yatantaç ca dåòha-vratäù
namasyantaç ca mäà bhaktyä
nitya-yuktä upäsate
Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.


When Lord Chaitanya himself says to chant hare krishna maha mantra in kaliyug why should one should follow any sampradaya which is founded by some acharya's(jivatatva's)

--Mukunda

yajvan
28 December 2006, 09:56 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

PraNAm Orlando,

Bhagavd Gita 15.15
vedaiç ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedänta-kåd veda-vid eva cäham
By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedänta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.

Namaste Mukunda,
Please spend some time on this if you could... " I am the knower of the Vedas" is the crux of Sri Krsna's Being. Can you round out the profund idea here for us ?

pranams,

Mukunda
29 December 2006, 03:50 AM
praNAm yajvan,

Please understand that Sri krishna is not an avatar, but he is the source of all avatara's.

Bhagavatam 1.3.28
ete cäàça-kaläù puàsaù
krishnas tu bhagavän svayam
indräri-vyäkulaà lokaà
måòayanti yuge yuge
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Çré Kåñëa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

Bhagavad Gita 10.8
ahaà sarvasya prabhavo
mattaù sarvaà pravartate
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me.
Vedas also originates from Sri Krishna. The originator only would know the contents and pupose of what he has given better than anybody else(jivatatva).

In Bhagavad Gita Sri Krishna explains the whole vedic knowledge in a simpler manner.

http://www.vedabase.net/bg/15/15/en


--Mukunda

orlando
29 December 2006, 10:15 AM
praNAm yajvan,

Please understand that Sri krishna is not an avatar, but he is the source of all avatara's.

Bhagavatam 1.3.28
ete cäàça-kaläù puàsaù
krishnas tu bhagavän svayam
indräri-vyäkulaà lokaà
måòayanti yuge yuge
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Çré Kåñëa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

By http://www.srimadbhagavatam.com/1/3/28/en

ete cāḿśa-kalāḥ puḿsaḥ

kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam

indrāri-vyākulaḿ lokaḿ

mṛḍayanti yuge yuge

SYNONYMS

ete — all these; ca — and; aḿśa — plenary portions; kalāḥ — portions of the plenary portions; puḿsaḥ — of the Supreme; kṛṣṇaḥ — Lord Kṛṣṇa; tu — but; bhagavān — the Personality of Godhead; svayam — in person; indra-ari — the enemies of Indra; vyākulam — disturbed; lokam — all the planets; mṛḍayanti — gives protection; yuge yuge — in different ages.

TRANSLATION

All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

Everyone can see that the translation is wrong.
For example Swami Prabhupada translated the words indra-ari in "atheists".The true meaning is the enemies of Indra.

By http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html

(26) O twice-born, from the ocean of goodness are the Lord His incarnations as innumerable as the thousands of streams found from the lakes. (27) All the powerful sages, the godly, the Manus and their progeny, as well as the Prajâpatis [founding fathers] are aspects of the Lord. (28) All these are part of Lord Krishna, the Supreme Lord [Bhagavân] in person who gives protection in all ages and worlds against the enemies of the king of heaven [Indra].

Shri Mukunda,plese note that the word Bhagavan doesn't mean "the original Personality of Godhead".

By http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivkuma/personal/music/vishnu-sahasranamam-meanings.htm

Bhagavaan -The word ‘Bhaga’, according to the Great Vishnu Purana means, “One who has all the Six Great Glories-Wealth, Power, Dharma, Fame, Character, Knowledge and Dispassion-is called ‘Bhagavaan’.” Again, Vishnu Purana says: “He is named Bhagavaan who knows (a) the beginning and the end, (b) the arrival and departure of beings, and also (c) Vidyaa and Avidyaa.” one who has all the six glorious in himself alone in Bhagavan and these great mighty power atomically come to Him, because his equipment is the Total-mind.

By http://home.comcast.net/~chinnamma/sahasra/

563. bhagavAn
a) He Who is worthy of worship.
b) He Who is full of the six attributes
c) He Who knows the origin and the end of all beings.

om bhagavate namah.

a) SrI BhaTTar interprets the nAma asreferring to His being worthy of worship because of His essential nature whichis antagonistic to all defects and which is endowed with all auspiciousqualities. The word bhaga has a special meaning which refers to the sixattributes, but SrI BhaTTar does not use this meaning here to interpret thisnAma, which the other vyAkhyAna kartA-s use. Instead, he gives theinterpretation "He Who is worthy of worship". In amarakOSa vyAkhyAnam,there is a reference to "bhajyata iti bhagah", which seems to fit SrIBhaTTar's interpretation for the current nAma. He uses the reference to the sixattributes in interpreting the next nAma "bhagahA". In support of SrIBhaTTar's interpretation for the current nAma, SrI v.v. rAmAnujan givesreference to AzhvAr aruLicceyal: uyarvaRa uyar nalam uDaiyavan (tiruvAimozhi1.1.1), tIdu il SIr nalam tigazh nAraNan; andam il Adiyam bhagavan (tiruvAimozhi1.3.5).

b) SrI Sa'nkara and other vyAkhyAna kartA-sinterpret the current nAma based on the word bhaga referring to the sixattributes. SrI kRshNa datta bhAradvAj gives the derivation - bhago j~nAnAdishaTkam vidyate niratiSayam yasmin iti bhagavAn - He in whom the six attributes(j~nAna etc.), which are called bhaga-s, are present in perfection and fullnessis called bhagavAn. SrI Sa'nkara gives reference to vishNu purANam supportinghis interpretation:

aiSvaryasya samagrasya vIryasya yaSasah Sriyah|
j~nAna vairAgya yogaScaiva shaNNAm bhaga itI'nganA || (V.P.6.5.74)

"He Who possesses the attributes ofaiSvaryam or Lordship, dharma, fame, wealth, j~nAna and vairAgya in full iscalled bhagavAn". There are differing versions of the Sloka, with dharmasyareplacing vIryasya, "j~nAna vairAgyayoScaiva" replaced by "vairAgyasyAthamokshasya", etc.

SrI rAdhAkRshNa SAstri gives the followingbrief explanation of the six attributes referred to above: - aiSvarya - Thequality of being the Lord of all - He can control and rule over all things atall times, and thus He is the Supreme over all. (na tasya ISe kaScana - tait.AraN. 10.10) - vIrya - The ability to be victorious over any enemy (ugram vIrammahAvishNum) - yaSah - kIrti; Worthy of praise by all without exception (tasyanAma mahad-yaSah - (tait. AraN. 10.1) - SrI - Wealth; He is One Who hasmahAlakshmi always residing as part of Him (Sriyam lakshmIm aupalAm ambikAm gAm)- j~nAna - Because He is the Knower of the past, present, and future and theLord of the three - bhUta bhavya bhavan-nAthah (yah savaj~nah sarvavit yaysj~nAnamayam tapah - muNDako. 1.1.9) - vairAgya - Being unattached to anything (savA ayamAtmA brahma akAma mayah - bRhadA. 4.4.5)

c) SrI Sa'nkara gives an alternateinterpretation as well, also based on another Slokam from SrI vishNu purANam:utpattim pralayam caiva bhUtAnAm Agatim gatim | vetti vidyAm avidyAm ca sa vAcyobhagavAn iti || (V.P. 6.5.78) "He is named bhagavAn who knows the originand the end, the arrival and the exit, of all beings, and also vidyA and avidyA".



Regards,
Orlando.

yajvan
29 December 2006, 10:26 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

praNAm yajvan,

Please understand that Sri krishna is not an avatar, but he is the source of all avatara's.

Bhagavatam 1.3.28
ete cäàça-kaläù puàsaù
krishnas tu bhagavän svayam
indräri-vyäkulaà lokaà
måòayanti yuge yuge
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Çré Kåñëa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

Bhagavad Gita 10.8
ahaà sarvasya prabhavo
mattaù sarvaà pravartate
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me.
Vedas also originates from Sri Krishna. The originator only would know the contents and pupose of what he has given better than anybody else(jivatatva). --Mukunda

Namaste Mukunda,
Yes, I understand this point, yet my past question was not one of Kesava's (beautiful haired - yet from Ka or the sound of Brahma + a or Vsnu + isa or Siva - He who controls/is Braham + Visnu + Siva) postion in this universe of His creation....
Yes, I see that you found additional info from the Gita, from Srila Prabupada's explaination, this is good, yet there is deeper meaning.

My question was pointed to " I am the knower of the Vedas". To you what does this mean? .. to be the 'knower' - this is the key, mumukshu, to this verse... this is not what it appears to be.

To be the knower of the ved is significant and points to Bhagvan as the SELF in all beings... the profound message behind this... please consider this. This is the 'diamond' that is behind this statement. I will explain if you care to, yet wait your kind insights on this matter.

pranams,

Mukunda
29 December 2006, 08:56 PM
By
Shri Mukunda,plese note that the word Bhagavan doesn't mean "the original Personality of Godhead".

Regards,
Orlando.

praNAm Orlando,

Indeed we should take directly the sankrit meaning of it. The point/discussion is not about the translation of word Bhagavan but to whom vyasa is refering to in that context. Isn't it ?

Bhagavat Gita 10.8
ahaà sarvasya prabhavo
mattaù sarvaà pravartate
iti matvä bhajante mäà
budhä bhäva-samanvitäù
aham—I; sarvasya—of all; prabhavaù—the source of generation; mattaù—from Me; sarvam—everything; pravartate—emanates; iti—thus; matvä—knowing; bhajante—become devoted; mäm—unto Me; budhäù—the learned; bhäva-samanvitäù—with great attention.

By considering this Sri Krishna is origin of everything and he is the original peronality of god head. Even Lord Chaitanya(who is Krishna himself) confirms this and also states Vishnu is sva amsha of Sri krishna. This is what prabhupada meant in his translation in that context.

Lord Chaitanya is the highest authority & acharya not any human acharyas.

Bhagavad Gita 10.20
aham ätmä guòäkeça
sarva-bhütäçaya-sthitaù
aham ädiç ca madhyaà ca
bhütänäm anta eva ca
aham—I; ätmä—the soul; guòäkeça—O Arjuna; sarva-bhüta—of all living entities; äçaya-sthitaù—situated within the heart; aham—I am; ädiù—the origin; ca—also; madhyam—middle; ca—also; bhütänäm—of all living entities; antaù—end; eva—certainly; ca—and.
=> Sri krishna is the origin, middle, end

--Mukunda

Mukunda
29 December 2006, 09:07 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Mukunda,
Yes, I understand this point, yet my past question was not one of Kesava's (beautiful haired - yet from Ka or the sound of Brahma + a or Vsnu + isa or Siva - He who controls/is Braham + Visnu + Siva) postion in this universe of His creation....
Yes, I see that you found additional info from the Gita, from Srila Prabupada's explaination, this is good, yet there is deeper meaning.

My question was pointed to " I am the knower of the Vedas". To you what does this mean? .. to be the 'knower' - this is the key, mumukshu, to this verse... this is not what it appears to be.

To be the knower of the ved is significant and points to Bhagvan as the SELF in all beings... the profound message behind this... please consider this. This is the 'diamond' that is behind this statement. I will explain if you care to, yet wait your kind insights on this matter.

pranams,

praNAm yajvan,

Please explain in your terms "I am the knower of the Vedas" . I would be glad to see the insight.


--Mukunda

yajvan
29 December 2006, 09:34 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

praNAm yajvan,

Please explain in your terms "I am the knower of the Vedas" .

Namaste Mukunda,
For Krsna to say he is the knower of the Vedas points to the fact that
by Him, He is pure consciousness itself, which allows one to know the Veda. That is, He is the seer, the method of seeing and the seen.

Vasistha says it a bit differently to Sri Ram, ' even as heat is to fire, whiteness is to a conch-shell, firmness to a mountain, liquidity to water, sweetness to sugarcane, brightness to illumination, oil to a mustard seed, flow is to a river,sweetness to honey, ornament is to gold, aroma is to a flower - the universe is to consciousness.' Krsna is this consciousness. How can He not be the knower of the ved, because there is no-thing that is not Him.

That there is no difference of the Knower and Krsna and consciousness that we possess ... in ignorance we perceive only differences ( this maya, of the infinite looking as if its in pieces); In enlightenment everything is an extention of the SELF. Wholeness, fullness, Bhuma, Brahman.

pranams,

Mukunda
30 December 2006, 02:10 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Mukunda,
For Krsna to say he is the knower of the Vedas points to the fact that
by Him, He is pure consciousness itself, which allows one to know the Veda. That is, He is the seer, the method of seeing and the seen.

Vasistha says it a bit differently to Sri Ram, ' even as heat is to fire, whiteness is to a conch-shell, firmness to a mountain, liquidity to water, sweetness to sugarcane, brightness to illumination, oil to a mustard seed, flow is to a river,sweetness to honey, ornament is to gold, aroma is to a flower - the universe is to consciousness.' Krsna is this consciousness. How can He not be the knower of the ved, because there is no-thing that is not Him.

That there is no difference of the Knower and Krsna and consciousness that we possess ... in ignorance we perceive only differences ( this maya, of the infinite looking as if its in pieces); In enlightenment everything is an extention of the SELF. Wholeness, fullness, Bhuma, Brahman.

pranams,

praNAm yajvan,

Thanks for insight. So whoever is the "knower of vedas" should know Sri Krishna => "By all the Vedas, I am to be known"

--Mukunda

yajvan
30 December 2006, 08:43 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

praNAm yajvan,

Thanks for insight. So whoever is the "knower of vedas" should know Sri Krishna => "By all the Vedas, I am to be known" --Mukunda

Namaste Mukunda,
there is a consideration in your statement that needs to be looked at...
To 'know' in this case is beyond just books and intellect.
To 'know' is to 'live' this state of consciousness. IN this state there is no difference between me and Sri Krsna...this is the state of the SELF.

One fully absorbed is the jivanmukti the shastra's proclaim as the goal.
The knower not only goes beyond the veda's , s/he becomes the All, there is no thing s/he is not - this is Brahman. Said another way , there is no 2. There is no me, and then Krsna to be known or the Ved. The knower of the ved is able to proclaim Vedanta, the end of the Ved or its goal: Aham Brahmasmi - I am Brahman (Br.U. 1.4.10).

Being the knower is completely profound - saying I am the goal.


pranams,

Mukunda
31 December 2006, 07:36 AM
praNAm yajvan,

What you trying to say is again same old Mayavad which has been fully refuted. As you know "I am Brahmasmi" and "tatvam asi" has been well refuted by Lord Chaitanya (Sri Krishma himself).

If one is understading Veda by his own way or by any wrong acharyas ( like Shankaracharya ) it leads to wrong conclusion. For those misunderstood Bhagavad Gita/Vedas Sri Krishna again came in the form of Lord Chaitanya and explained Achintya Bedha Abedha .

One should follow Lord Chaitanya(Sri Krishna himself) not any other acharyas( who forms their own philosophy).

-- Mukunda

yajvan
31 December 2006, 05:21 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

praNAm yajvan,

If one is understading Veda by his own way or by any wrong acharyas ( like Shankaracharya ) it leads to wrong conclusion. For those misunderstood Bhagavad Gita/Vedas Sri Krishna again came in the form of Lord Chaitanya and explained Achintya Bedha Abedha .

One should follow Lord Chaitanya(Sri Krishna himself) not any other acharyas( who forms their own philosophy). -- Mukunda

Namaste Mukunda,
Thank you for your note, yet I do not comprehend your message...
You are welcomed to follow Sri Krsna and it will serve you well. Yet, tell me in your own words, your own intellect what this encompasses and what this means.. I am not certain if you wish to discus ideas, or suggest the proper way to recognize the SELF. If its a discussion of rules and guidelines you suggest, that will be fine. Yet the conversation revolved around BG 15.15 verses and the deep significance that goes with this.

" It is I who am to be known by all the vedas, I who am the creator of the vedanta and MySelf the knower of the ved."

If we chose to consider the 'end of the veda' or vedanta, then all this is THAT, total unity. If you wish to discuss guidelines, disciplines, etc for Krsna consciousness then we can discuss that too... Yet I think you may want to reconsider Shankarachara ( if you are considering Adi Shankarachara).

That said, I will not and do not plan to distract you from your beliefs as they are wholesome and if surrounded by Krsna , only good can come from this.

Yet, Let me ask, what do think the 'wrong conclusion' is? And can you give examples of the Bhagavad Gita misunderstandings? I can list multiple misunderstandings that blemished a sadhu's spiritual pursuits that have come from pundits who suggest mastery of this great shastra.

Any way, good tidings to you and hare Krsna.

willie
31 December 2006, 09:04 PM
If only about 6% of the vedas are available to be looked at and studied, then no one came make any assumptions about what the vedas are all about. I don't see any way to construct any logical thoughts about what the vedas are all about form the limited data. All most of these socalled discussion lead to is word parsing and arguing about the meaning of those words.

Well that is not what spirituality is all about , it is all about what people are done in their own lives to be more spiritual. It is the day to day experience that makes spirituality stronger and makes it grow to the point were the individual stops talking and starts living it. And only by living it is anything gained. No words of some long dead , so called, holymen can do anything but provide anything but the pitiful start of the tranformantion.

Who can tell how many real living spiritual people there are who try to reveal new devine thoughts, maybe even thought directly from brahman, but are shouted down by those who are stuck in the past and some old out of date ideas. No wonder we don't have any modern holybook as most are still fighting over the old ones and wasting a lot of time trying to figure out which is the true religion and the best religion. So it is no wonder that the temples , churches and other religious building are filling up with social organizations and pslam singers.

yajvan
31 December 2006, 10:30 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


If only about 6% of the vedas are available \

Namaste Willie,
I think this '6%' is taking on a life of its own, yes? can someone give me the audit trail to the 6% - I do not see this.

We do not have 100% and much of the Atharva Ved is missing , truncated, or in pieces; I would suggest that the Rk Ved is in pretty good shape, as is Sama Ved. Someone pls advise on this missing 94% that is inferred.

Now, that said, there really isn't any 'missing' veda's... the Veda's are cognized, they exist in akashra [ a or 'not' + ksi or to destory or parish]. What is missing is the jivanmukti, Brahamrishi's that can bring this into consciousness, and pass on to qualified sisya's.

Mukunda
01 January 2007, 12:41 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Mukunda,
Thank you for your note, yet I do not comprehend your message...
You are welcomed to follow Sri Krsna and it will serve you well. Yet, tell me in your own words, your own intellect what this encompasses and what this means.. I am not certain if you wish to discus ideas, or suggest the proper way to recognize the SELF. If its a discussion of rules and guidelines you suggest, that will be fine. Yet the conversation revolved around BG 15.15 verses and the deep significance that goes with this.

" It is I who am to be known by all the vedas, I who am the creator of the vedanta and MySelf the knower of the ved."

If we chose to consider the 'end of the veda' or vedanta, then all this is THAT, total unity. If you wish to discuss guidelines, disciplines, etc for Krsna consciousness then we can discuss that too... Yet I think you may want to reconsider Shankarachara ( if you are considering Adi Shankarachara).

That said, I will not and do not plan to distract you from your beliefs as they are wholesome and if surrounded by Krsna , only good can come from this.

Yet, Let me ask, what do think the 'wrong conclusion' is? And can you give examples of the Bhagavad Gita misunderstandings? I can list multiple misunderstandings that blemished a sadhu's spiritual pursuits that have come from pundits who suggest mastery of this great shastra.

Any way, good tidings to you and hare Krsna.

praNAm yajvan,
No one's intellect is perfect. If so why should Sri Krishna come again & again to restablish vedic knowledge. This is why we should follow Lord Chaitanya's words.
In BG Sri Krishna explains 4 types of yogas to realize SELF and Supreme LORD. 1. Karma Yoga 2. Jnana yoga 3. Dhya Yoga 4. Bhaki Yoga
I think you are trying to understand the SELF by jnana yoga thru vedic literature. But both Sri krishna and Chaitanya preferred bhakti yoga.

In BG 15.7
mamaiväàço jéva-loke
jéva-bhütaù sanätanaù
manaù-ñañöhänéndriyäëi
prakåti-sthäni karñati
The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.
This is alo explained by Lord Chaitanya as all the SELF's are the servants of Supreme Lord Sri Krishna. In this way one should understand the SELF.

In the Padma Puräëa Lord Çiva personally tells Bhägavatédevé:
çåëu devi parakñyämi
tämasäni yathä-kramam
yeñäà çravaëa-mätreëa
pätityaà jïäninäm api
apärthaà çruti-väkyänäà
darçayaû loka-garhitam
karma-svarüpa-tyäjyatvam
atra ca pratipädyate
sarva-karma-paribhraàçän
naiskarmyaà tatra cocyate
parätma jévayor aikyaà
mayätra pratipädyate
“My dear Devé, sometimes I teach Mäyävädé philosophy for those who are engrossed in the mode of ignorance. But if a
person in the mode of goodness happens to hear this Mäyävädé philosophy, he falls down, for when teaching Mäyävädé
philosophy, I say that the living entity and the Supreme Lord are one and the same.”
No one wants to get fooled by imperfect phylosophy's from acharyas like Shankaracharya(who is shivas incarnation)?

Regarding Wrong conclusion and misunderstaning of vedas/BG ?
If one has understod vedas/BG properly then why there are so many phylosophy(advaita, dvaita etc.) founded by the acharyas/pundits which are not matching with Lord Chaitanya's Achintya Bedha Abedha.

--Mukunda

Mukunda
01 January 2007, 01:06 AM
If only about 6% of the vedas are available to be looked at and studied, then no one came make any assumptions about what the vedas are all about. I don't see any way to construct any logical thoughts about what the vedas are all about form the limited data. All most of these socalled discussion lead to is word parsing and arguing about the meaning of those words.

Well that is not what spirituality is all about , it is all about what people are done in their own lives to be more spiritual. It is the day to day experience that makes spirituality stronger and makes it grow to the point were the individual stops talking and starts living it. And only by living it is anything gained. No words of some long dead , so called, holymen can do anything but provide anything but the pitiful start of the tranformantion.

Who can tell how many real living spiritual people there are who try to reveal new devine thoughts, maybe even thought directly from brahman, but are shouted down by those who are stuck in the past and some old out of date ideas. No wonder we don't have any modern holybook as most are still fighting over the old ones and wasting a lot of time trying to figure out which is the true religion and the best religion. So it is no wonder that the temples , churches and other religious building are filling up with social organizations and pslam singers.

praNAm Willie,

In the Garuòa Puräëa it is said:
artho ’yaà brahma-süträëäà
bhäratärtha-vinirëayaù
gäyatré-bhäñya-rüpo ’sau
vedärtha-paribåàhitaù
grantho ’ñöädaça-sähasraù
çrémad-bhägavatäbhidhaù
“The Çrémad-Bhägavatam is the authorized explanation of Brahma-sütra, and it is a further explanation of Mahäbhärata. It is the expansion of the gäyatré mantra and the essence of all Vedic knowledge. This Çrémad-Bhägavatam, containing eighteen thousand verses, is known as the explanation of all Vedic literature.”

Even some part of veda is lost the whole vedic knowledge is not lost. It is in the form of Srimadbhagavatam given by Vyasa especially for kaliyug.

Your knowledge is confined to present life(janma). Can you please explain how life came into existance ? Where you are going after death ? Why so many differences in this world ? Tell me the difference between the dead person & living person ? If one doesn't know the answer to these basic questions can one show the difference between an animal and human beings ? Both animals and human being will eat,sleep,struggle for surviving and die.

We accept the absolute truth which never changes. What are you expecting a new God ? new holy books ? If God is changing in course of time then why should we accept him as God (The Absolute truth ). Please tell us the origin of everything.

We believe in God because we don't want to live like animals.

-- Mukunda

yajvan
01 January 2007, 02:16 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

praNAm yajvan,
No one's intellect is perfect. If so why should Sri Krishna come again & again to restablish vedic knowledge. This is why we should follow Lord Chaitanya's words. --Mukunda

Namaste Mukunda,
I will leave this discussion where it is at ... frankly I am completely lost of the points you are trying to convey.
Let me leave you with your point and we can retire this conversation.
Intellect, in my humble estimation and assessment, wheather, clear, strong or lacking thereof, is not the reason Sri Krsna chooses his decent to Bhu Loka. It is for his devotees first and formost, then to establish ( or reestablich is more accurate) Dharma.

I have closed this matter out, as we have gone off on a tangent, that albiet may be rewarding at some point, seems to have no conclusion.
(savyabhichara, in the logic of Nyaya)

pranams,

satay
02 January 2007, 09:41 AM
[FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3]If only about 6% of the vedas are available to be looked at and studied, then no one came make any assumptions about what the vedas are all about.

namaste willie,
Please provide the background of this 'if' statement.

satay
02 January 2007, 09:49 AM
praNAm yajvan,
This is why we should follow Lord Chaitanya's words.

--Mukunda

namaste Mukunda,

Please familiarize yourself with the rules of this site by clicking on FAQ link above on the top nav bar.

Missionary activity of any kind and activity of insulting acharyas of sampardaya other than your own is not allowed on these forums.

With all due respect to Lord Chaitanya, sri prabhupada and ISKCON, HDF is geared towards 'Hinduism' in general and as such discussions are normally driven by keeping that in mind.

If you wish to post more on Lord Chaitanya specifically, please post in the appropriate section of this Forum by starting a new thread dedicated to him. You may post in the ISKCON section as well.

Thank you for your cooperation.

willie
02 January 2007, 09:25 PM
It seems to be a well established fact that the vedas are incomplete and that the ones known are not a majority of the work. So if you have only a small portion of the original work it is hard to make any assumption about the total work.

Seem to be pretty basic statistics that more data points you have the better to analysis of the total object is. When not that much of the original work in know then few things can be assumed about the whole work.

Of the part that is known, I don't remember anything being mentioned about reincarnation at all, or much about the force that keep everything alive.

Additionally , there are no competing works that in competion for the lime light. Even in the case of the new testament there are others version of it and essence take a very different look at the life of jesus and there are several different language work of the same book.

Even in the case of the old testament there are other works like the deadsea scrolls that say a lot of what is in the old testament. But in the case of the vedas they seem to have fallen from the sky, no other competing works or earlier works to show a progression of ideas. Some where something seems to be wrong. Somewhere there must be early works that sort of go along with the vedas.

These arguements always seem to break down to wording parsing and what passages or words mean. Well with nothing else of the time period to reference these ideas are nothing more than guess work on the part of later scholars.

Look at the new testament and martin luther, one of the reasons that the catholic church wanted to keep everyone from reading it was that there would be a lot of different interpertations of what passages meant. And the church probable been witness to fist fights, in the vatican, as to what passages meant. So the official monlithic party line was challenged it would have to fall, unless someone could say that he as visited be angels from god and had recieved a devine message at to some meaning.

when a person applies the same thoughts to the vedas all the expert's thoughts crumble to just educated guess work.

satay
03 January 2007, 02:04 AM
[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]It seems to be a well established fact that the vedas are incomplete and that the ones known are not a majority of the work.

Where did you get the precise percentage (6) that you talked about in your previous post? What's the source of that number?

orlando
03 January 2007, 11:38 AM
Where did you get the precise percentage (6) that you talked about in your previous post? What's the source of that number?

Dear Satay,
I already gave the source of that number in a post of mine.
Please read http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/srimad-bhagavatam.html

Regards,
Orlando.

Sudarshan
06 January 2007, 10:05 AM
Ananta Vai Vedah - (kAThaka brAhmaNa)

Vedas are endless, as stated in veda itself - nothing like 6%. Vedas reveal themselves when one advances spiritually through incremental perception of the infinite God.

yajvan
06 January 2007, 12:48 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Ananta Vai Vedah - (kAThaka brAhmaNa)

Vedas are endless, as stated in veda itself - nothing like 6%. Vedas reveal themselves when one advances spiritually through incremental perception of the infinite God.

Namaste Sudarshan,
I could not agree with you more... yes! Endless. the only 6% that I can see is the limited vision we as a society is missing...the great kavi to be here to help all of us understand the Ved. Once fullness of consciousness unfolds one lifes the Ved daily.

All Glory To Him Who Breathes Out The Veda

Arvind Sivaraman
25 April 2007, 12:41 AM
Namaste all.
I am a Sri vaishnava of Ramanuja-sampradaya.
I need information about my sadhana.
One can't recite Ramayana or do mantra-japa without first take a bath.
I know that I can't do mantra-japa in my rest room.
I know that I can do Ramanama in my rest room and without take a bath because Ramanama is beyond place and time.
I already do Ramanama.And I recite sanskrit prayes.
My question is:other than Rama-nama what can I do in my rest room and without take first a bath?
I can't take a bath a hundred times in a day!!1:(

Regards,
Orlando.

Om Shirdi Sai Ram.
Namaste.
One can recite "Vishnu Sahasra Nama" without taking bath.You can recite even sitting in your bed room.

prashantkochar1
13 February 2008, 06:58 AM
You can do all the things without purity that any other person does with purity. Our saints and Rishis say us to take bath before prayer, mantra jap and meditation so that we can come out of laziness and do not feel sleepy at that time.
Of-course a healthy person should take bath before jap but if somebody is feeling unhealthy, he can sit in prayer without taking bath. There is no harm in it. When purest of the pure "Ram" is already residing within you, why do you have so much concern about these rituals? Heart should be pure. Don't think about these rituals.

Just fill your heart with love and surrender in the lotus feet of Rama.

Pretnath
11 December 2008, 01:20 AM
Namaste G

This is not very important to bath every time. In Satyug, Tretayug, Dwaperyug many rishis had TAPSYA for years. Even wnen Hiranyakshipu arrested Prahlad, he continued to pray even in prison. 1st thing- U should open your mouth with hare chat after waking, than do your bathroom acts, than bath, brush. Than do all your prayers, next you can wash your hands & feet for more, no need to bath fully.
Hari Om.