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Khadgar
05 September 2007, 03:21 PM
Muslims stop at nothing to attempt to try pick away at Eastern spirituality.

There is a guy trying to convince me that 'Islam is the way of truth', because he believes that the Kalki Avatar of the Kali Yug is actually his prophet [Muhammed]. Thus claiming that Hinduism prophecized Muhammed and so Hindus should convert.... It was quite easy to refute the basics, but I don't think he's swayed.

He further believes that the Kali Yug corresponds with the Islamic/Abrahamic end times and therefore should convert to Islam.

I've already gotten started on this second thrust, I've let him know that the Kali Yug is to be taken and a mythological parrable to be taken metaphorically such that we discern the deluded nature of humanity, and certainly not as a 'prophecy' as Islam so claims as far as its 'revelations' are concerned.

He's still not swayed, I was wondering if I could get some help here on how to further approach and counter the man's ignorance. He is hell bent on looking at the world through Abrahamic goggles, and I would so very much like to shatter those goggles.

So please, any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

Agnideva
05 September 2007, 03:30 PM
Namaste Khadgar,


There is a guy trying to convince me that 'Islam is the way of truth', because he believes that the Kalki Avatar of the Kali Yug is actually his prophet [Muhammed]. Thus claiming that Hinduism prophecized Muhammed and so Hindus should convert.... It was quite easy to refute the basics, but I don't think he's swayed.

Is this guy related to or quoting from one of the Islamic websites set up by the infamous Dr. Zakir Naik? Sounds very much like Zakir Naik's brainchild.

A.

satay
05 September 2007, 03:36 PM
Since hindu sastras predict the arrival of kalki and since this muslim believes the sastra he is automatically a 'hindu'. All those who believe in the authority of the sastra are hindu by default. So therefore, this guy is a hindu.

Khadgar
05 September 2007, 03:43 PM
Namaste Khadgar,



Is this guy related to or quoting from one of the Islamic websites set up by the infamous Dr. Zakir Naik? Sounds very much like Zakir Naik's brainchild.

A.

Hahaha as it turns out yes he is. I've refuted Naik so long ago, yet his fans seem to pop out of no where.

Khadgar
05 September 2007, 03:46 PM
Since hindu sastras predict the arrival of kalki and since this muslim believes the sastra he is automatically a 'hindu'. All those who believe in the authority of the sastra are hindu by default. So therefore, this guy is a hindu.


Would this work? Because that's the argument that Naik uses to say that Muslims are the new 'Hindus'... 'the correct Hindus'. My rebuttal, amongst many is simply that they're trying to use a symbollic concept to justify Islam's pseudo-prophetic revelation. Moreover, if one tried, it's actually quite easy to rip Islam's theology up into shreds.

Agnideva
05 September 2007, 04:26 PM
Namaste Khadgar,

Arguments such as Mahamada (Mohammed), Isa (Jesus) and Jarasasta (Zoraster) are predicted in "Vedic literature" are based invariably on an heavily interpolated version of Bhavishya Purana, which appeared in 1897. The Bhavishya Purana is one of the most interpolated of texts - this is well known to scholars. So any theory based on this interpolated version holds no water.

Besides, the traditional account of the kaliyuga tells us that it is 432000 years long, and we are only 5109 into it. Kalki is not supposed to come until the end of the kaliyuga. So, again it doesn't make sense to say Muhammed is Kalki.

That Kalki is supposed to come riding a horse and Muhammed was an expert horse-rider tells us nothing (although according to Zakir Naik it is supposed to be "evidence" that Muhammed is Kalki).

Anyway, if I were you, I wouldn't spend too much time debating these things. These sorts of theories are best described as GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

OM Shanti,
A.

Khadgar
05 September 2007, 04:33 PM
I will definitely bring that up, thank you. But to your last statement, I disagree. We need to debate because WE NEED to fight back. Abrahamic traditions have been attacking us for centuries with slander. I for one won't take it lying down any more. My angle has always been to unite the Eastern spiritualities: Sanatani, Sikhi, Buddhi, Jaina, Tao, Confucius, Shinto, Chinese Traditional, etc. against the Abrahamics because we've been under attack for so long. And that is why I need your help.

Znanna
05 September 2007, 05:16 PM
I will definitely bring that up, thank you. But to your last statement, I disagree. We need to debate because WE NEED to fight back. Abrahamic traditions have been attacking us for centuries with slander. I for one won't take it lying down any more. My angle has always been to unite the Eastern spiritualities: Sanatani, Sikhi, Buddhi, Jaina, Tao, Confucius, Shinto, Chinese Traditional, etc. against the Abrahamics because we've been under attack for so long. And that is why I need your help.


LOL, satay, what a perfect response! There's something about Hindu logic which is so logical :)

My general response would be to listen and agree with whatever aspects of what he said that connected with my point of view.

(I really don't care if Muslims call Godz Allah - since I don't see Godz as an 'it' to be offended, if it makes a Muslim more comfortable to say "ALLAH akbar", hey friggy diggy have a good time. The notion of peace=submission in Islam (in Arabic the word is more or less one and the same AFAIK) resonates just as the I AM of Christianity resonates, just as.... When I have had the privilege/misfortune to encounter such as may be considered Godz - in other words entities way more awesome than I can imagine - I find that Master or Mistress works in all circumstances on a practical basis!)

I can understand your point above, too, however. I suggest that creating a us-them paradigm to confront such behaviours nourishes the dualistic paradigm of the Abrahamic traditions and thus feeds into their construct in a perverse and devolutionary manner.

Also, IMO, everyone is perfectly themselves so as part of the whole, so why restrict expression which is evidence of this?

Hey, at least I can affirm that this approach drives extreme Fundamentalists (of any tradition) absolutely nutso :)


YMMV


Namaste,
ZN

Agnideva
05 September 2007, 06:00 PM
We need to debate because WE NEED to fight back. Abrahamic traditions have been attacking us for centuries with slander. I for one won't take it lying down any more.
If you have the time and patience Khadgar, go for it! I am all for debate and dispelling misinformation. But generally it is the case that, as the expression goes, those who claim their horse runs on three legs cannot be convinced otherwise :).

A.

satay
05 September 2007, 08:30 PM
If we could sum up in one sentence what a hindu is, what would that be?

I should think that most hindus would agree to the following:
'if one believes in the authority of the vedas then one is a hindu.'

So if a muslim like zakir is saying that muhamed is the kalki that hindu sastra talk about then he is implying that he believes in the authority of the vedas and therefore, he is a hindu.

I should think that this kind of muslim should convince other muslims to conver to hinduism as obviously hindu vedas and purnas are thus much more advanced than their own man mad scripture!

By admitting that vedas predict the coming of mohamad, the muslim is admitting that vedas are of higher authority than koran. So koran should rightfully be burned or thrown in the garbage and all muslims should take their rightful position in the dharma fold by accepting the authority of the vedas.

This is normal logic.

satay
05 September 2007, 08:33 PM
Besides Naik has been countered here on HDF though with a touch of humor.

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=534

devisarada
06 September 2007, 01:43 PM
If we could sum up in one sentence what a hindu is, what would that be?

I should think that most hindus would agree to the following:
'if one believes in the authority of the vedas then one is a hindu.'...

...By admitting that vedas predict the coming of mohamad, the muslim is admitting that vedas are of higher authority than koran. So koran should rightfully be burned or thrown in the garbage and all muslims should take their rightful position in the dharma fold by accepting the authority of the vedas.

This is normal logic.

The real problem, I think, is spiritual hubris on the part of the Abrahamic traditions. It started with the Jews, saying they were the "chosen people". Then the Christians usurped them and insisted that the Jews have betrayed God when they insisted that Jesus be crucified. Lastly the Mohammedans now say that it is their birthright to be the chosen people, but it was unjustly denied them because Abraham cast out his first born son by the concubine, Hagar, in favour of his second son, Isaac, by his wife, Sarah.

So, it's a case of "God always liked me best". These people "know" that God and the TRUTH is on their side, even if the whole world is against them.

Their ideas have existed on this earth only a short time, and their days are numbered. For they're dogma is rigid and they cannot accept scientific fact.

Just as their view of how the world functions is becoming more anachronistic everyday, so, they too, will go the way of that other maladaptible creature, the dinosaur.

East Asian religions have always been flexible enough to accomodate new scientific concepts. Because of our core beliefs, we have always had the ability to incorporate valid new concepts as they were discovered. Molecular theory and quantum physics are not anathema to Hindus, Buddhist, Daoists, etc.

So, perhaps instead of wasting our energy in opposing these little gnats, we should take a longer term view, knowing that our philosphy predated their dogmas, and our Vedic Gyan will prevail long after their half baked ideas have become nothing but dust.

Khadgar
06 September 2007, 06:18 PM
Greetings, devisarada,

I would like you to take a look at something I posted a few weeks ago: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1894

As it turns out, it's not just about accommodating new insights, but rather; I firmly believe that Vedic Philosophy, and Eastern spiritualities such as Hinduism/Sanatani, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Taoism, Confucus, Chinese Traditional, Shintoism, etc. have always had greater insight on scientific reasoning. Vedic Philosophy and the four Karmic spiritualities mentioned above, when examined in their most spiritually intricate concepts essentially deals with M-Theory, SuperStringTheory, QuantumTheory, et. al.!!

I have reason to believe that Vedic Philosophers, Sages, KNEW about such concepts 10,000 years before our time! I believe much of this concept has been absorbed into Eastern spirituality, and thus ingrained in the spiritual science of Sanatani, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, etc.

The world is fast realizing the merit of Eastern teachings. The SubContinent, China, Japan, etc. have always had such great insights unmatched by the west with the possible exception of the Ancient Greeks.

Znanna
06 September 2007, 08:00 PM
Everyone seems to be wanting to be the "chosen Ones" the irony being is that chosen is of ego and sacrifice. d'oh ...



ZN
/just sayin'

devisarada
06 September 2007, 09:38 PM
Greetings, devisarada,

I would like you to take a look at something I posted a few weeks ago: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1894

As it turns out, it's not just about accommodating new insights, but rather; I firmly believe that Vedic Philosophy, and Eastern spiritualities such as Hinduism/Sanatani, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Taoism, Confucus, Chinese Traditional, Shintoism, etc. have always had greater insight on scientific reasoning. Vedic Philosophy and the four Karmic spiritualities mentioned above, when examined in their most spiritually intricate concepts essentially deals with M-Theory, SuperStringTheory, QuantumTheory, et. al.!!

I have reason to believe that Vedic Philosophers, Sages, KNEW about such concepts 10,000 years before our time! I believe much of this concept has been absorbed into Eastern spirituality, and thus ingrained in the spiritual science of Sanatani, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, etc.

The world is fast realizing the merit of Eastern teachings. The SubContinent, China, Japan, etc. have always had such great insights unmatched by the west with the possible exception of the Ancient Greeks.

Namaste Khadgar,

I agree with you 100%. I wrote that post hurriedly. But the point I wanted to make was, that because of our open minded approach, any new knowledge that modern science gains, is almost certain to be accepted by the Eastern Religions, whereas, because of the rigid dogma of the Abrahamic traditions, any knew knowledge or even science that has already been around for centuries, is seen as a threat that has to be removed.

Khadgar
06 September 2007, 10:57 PM
Ok, I need help again. I'm arguing with that Muslim guy again.... and really I have no words to describe his lack of insight. Anyway, he's saying something along the lines of the idea of the Kali Yuga being an article of doctrine, that one must literally believe.

I keep rebutting that we are not like Abrahamic faiths. Abrahamic faiths see its creation/revelation myths as actual 'facts' in the literal sense.

Eastern teachings on the other hand is pure symbolism. With us, the mythology is used to convey the message. The Kali Yuga is no different. While many in the masses might take the Kali Yuga in the literal sense, the underlying idea is one of pure metaphor. It is MEANT to be a metaphor for ignorance in humanity. Ignorance and self indulgence. Eastern spirituality uses mythology to explain philosophy.

And yet, this Muslim can't quite seem to grasp it because he's still stuck in an Abrahamic linear thinking: That the text should be taken at face value because it was written. Because they believe in the unquestioning literary truth of the Quran, they see it as an ends, where Eastern script is supposed to be a MEANS, not an ends. And yet, he still doesn't quite seem to grasp this rather simple concept.

I'm at my wit's end. I could REALLY use some guidance here to rebutt him. Anything would be appreciated, please, and thanks in advance.

devisarada
07 September 2007, 06:48 AM
You might try some of the links provided in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yug#In_relation_to_people.27s_relationships

You have set your self a very difficult task, because Sanatana Dharma is intuitive, while Islam relies on edicts. So, using an Islamic approach to prove or disprove something in Vedic Dharma is futile. That is why I believe that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar took the approach that he did with Dr. Naik. I realise that his rebuttals to Dr. Naik sometimes fell short, but his general approach was effective.

However, if it is your purpose to convince a Muslim that he is wrong, that is almost impossible, because of the aforementioned spiritual hubris.

The other tack you might use is to go into offensive mode, and talk about the many versions of the Quran

here is a link which discusses them


http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/

Good Luck!

atanu
07 September 2007, 08:25 AM
Ok, I need help again. I'm arguing with that Muslim guy again.... and really I have no words to describe his lack of insight. ----.

Namaste,

Where is the argument taking place? In a forum or in a one-to one verbal duel?

Om

Khadgar
07 September 2007, 08:48 AM
Greetings, it's happening one to one, over private message. I could lay out his argument and mine piece by piece here if you would like?

atanu
07 September 2007, 10:50 AM
Greetings, it's happening one to one, over private message. I could lay out his argument and mine piece by piece here if you would like?

Greetings,

I think that would be of interest to all and more conducive towards framing rebuttals, provided admin okays the idea.

Regards

devisarada
07 September 2007, 11:01 AM
Greetings,

I think that would be of interest to all and more conducive towards framing rebuttals, provided admin okays the idea.

Regards


Namaste,

I agree.

satay
07 September 2007, 01:53 PM
Namaste,
Yes, no problem. In fact, I would encourage Khadgar to post his friend's messages here and the exchange as complete as possible. Or invite his friend to HDF.

There is a muslim section on HDF you know...

Khadgar
07 September 2007, 06:07 PM
Namaste,
Yes, no problem. In fact, I would encourage Khadgar to post his friend's messages here and the exchange as complete as possible. Or invite his friend to HDF.

There is a muslim section on HDF you know...

He's not my friend. I would never consider a man so closed minded my friend, but here is the exchange, more or less:

Him:


Thats a very Post Modern View or take; but thats actually not what happened in the real-life sense within the history of the peoples. Every notable religious leader/Prophet be they Krishna, Moses, Muhammad(saw), Jesus, Hermes Trismegathus, Lao Tzu all derived from revolutionary struggles.
It was an uprise not as merely social cohesion but to dissolve a social cohesion which has diverted astray from the Edenic/Primal/Messianic ideal and restore it to one within the Edenic ideal. This is why almost all religious based Eschatology deals with a "climatic" event which depicts an uprise of "True Believers" against the deviant hordes under a central "cohesion".

Rastafarians call it Babylon
Muslims call it "Manhaj Al Dajjal"
Jews call it Leviathan
Christians call it The Anti Christ.
Vedic Hindus call it Kali Yuga


My reponse:


What has revolutionary struggles to do with religion? And Krishna and Lao Tzu only conceptualized spirituality, there was no religion involved. Which is why Eastern traditions are more 'spiritual guides' than they are 'religions'.

Kali Yuga is meant to be a symbolic one simply identifying stages of lack of awareness in society.


[btw, I've clarified to him that when I say religion, I do mean in the Abrahamic sense: the unyielding, monolithic, fascistic drive]

Him:



Narada then instructed Vyasadeva in the catur sloka, or catuhsloki (SB 2.9.33-36) the essence of the Veda. Vyasadeva took these four verses and expanded them to compile the Srimad Bhagavatam, which is known as the ripened fruit of Vedic literature because it directly describes Krsna's transcendental pastimes. Vyasadeva has written SB in his spiritual maturity (SB 1.5.13: samadhi nanusmara tad-vicestitam - "In the trance you are thinking about Lord's pastimes and describing them"

It is described in the lists of the main avataras of the Lord as found in the Bhagavata Purana, that the seventeenth incarnation was Srila Vyasadeva who appeared as the son of Parashara Muni and his wife Satyavati. His mission was to divide the one Veda into various branches and sub-branches so the people who are less intelligent can more easily understand them. (Bhag.1.3.21 & 2.7.36)

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/srila_vyasadeva.htm



My response:


The original argument was about Krishna, which still stands. I've been studying the accounts of the Eastern world, so I can't speak for Abrahamic faiths.

Stephan Knapp is not a credible source. And Vyasudeva isn't the end all be all of Vedic authority

Him:


I think the fact that Vyasudeva was an expert in the Vedas and no modern Vedic Theorist can derive any understanding of the Vedas without him make what he said a reflection of the Vedic texts.


^^^This to me doesn't make much sense and shows his lack of understanding of Eastern thought. I then proceeded to explain to him that while Abrahamic faiths are literal, their scriptures serve as an ends, not a means, and therefore they hold people like Muhammed, Moses, Jesus, Abraham as 'authority'. Eastern thought isn't like that. It's scriptures use a lot more symbolism to convey the message, and therefore the LITERAL translation is always the 'basic' one, far different from the actual connotation. I mean, yes, sure there are people who certainly believe in the Kali Yug in the prophetic sense, which was this guy's thrust all along. He wants to unify the 'end times' parables of Aryan mythology with the end times of Abrahamism. It WON'T work. What I have been trying to explain to him is that the essence of the Kali Yug mythology is to allude to the general ignorance and self indulgence which society delves in. It is not a literal story where some 400,000 years from now some avatar will show up and vanquish evil. It is meant to be symbolic at its heart. Yes again there are those who believe in it, but it is meant to be purely symbolic in the same way that say Lord Ganesha symbolises an aspect of Bhagvan, which in turn is an aspect of Brahman.


I will post more in a bit... it seems to be an on going argument with him. He refuses to believe that Eastern spirituality is not 'linear' in the same way that Islam is.

Islam is precisely linear because it fails to make a distinction between religion [again, religion in the western sense] and spirituality.


Religion is a human construct; a tool first started by ancient priest kings in Mesopotamia and surrounding nomadic tribes to enforce social cohesion under supernatural edict.

Spirituality is about Self Realization. It is inherently free from 'religion'. Sure a religious man can be spiritual, but a spiritual man need not be religious. Which is again the THRUST of Eastern thought. As a result Eastern spiritualities will always be on a deeper level.

I will post more on this in a bit.

Khadgar
08 September 2007, 11:15 AM
Basically right now he wants some sort of 'corroboration' that the scriptures aren't meant to be taken literally in the same way that scriptures in Quran/Bible/Torah are... How in the world do I begin to show him this? How do I tell him that while some people might believe in the literal level, the thrust of the text itself has absolutely nothing to do with the literal level; that the literal is used as a symbolic instrument for the spiritual, philosophical, metaphysical?

Znanna
08 September 2007, 07:33 PM
Basically right now he wants some sort of 'corroboration' that the scriptures aren't meant to be taken literally in the same way that scriptures in Quran/Bible/Torah are... How in the world do I begin to show him this? How do I tell him that while some people might believe in the literal level, the thrust of the text itself has absolutely nothing to do with the literal level; that the literal is used as a symbolic instrument for the spiritual, philosophical, metaphysical?


Well, you could engage in a conversation about phenomenology and semiphore in the definition of linguistic interpretation :)

Cripes, ANY language is innately subject to interpretation, some more than others. The beauty of Sanskrit is that, to my limited understanding, the language IS the expression of the philosophy ... thus, IMO, some Hindu scriptures are way more literal than many of the Abrahamic analogs.

YMMV


Love,
ZN

yajvan
09 September 2007, 10:43 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


The beauty of Sanskrit is that, to my limited understanding, the language IS the expression of the philosophy ... thus, IMO, some Hindu scriptures are way more literal than many of the Abrahamic analogs.


Namaste,
I have a different view on this...that is to say I dis-agree. The rishi's offer suktas that speak to multiple levels of consciousness. This is their wisdom and brilliance. They use sanketa or symbolism to get concepts and knowledge across that appeals/resonates to varying levels of awareness/consciousness. So now that I say this , and to insure this is not conjecture, here's a few items for consideration, that is semantics in the Rig Ved, which is considered the 'anchor' veda.

Dhi - this is seen as dhi and dhiyah and its variants and appears more then ~ 200 times. At times its used as light, as intelligence, etc. Sometimes as deva , so from illuminating to devata.
Go ( Some write Gau) and is considered a cow, but used for luminous consciousness - its forms appear as gavam, gavi, gave, gha, gobhih, goshu, etc. and isused ~ 600 times. As a four legged cow? sometimes. Yet as a quality of light in consciousness, either being increased or constrained.
Ones of importance is Agni - also known as jatavedas , one that knows all births. So sometimes He is fire-tattva, sometimes he is Divine inspiration, sometimes he is vanaspati the lord of vana - a herb and also delight! He is also known as agna, angiras (radiant coals, flaming.
This is the same for Usa, of the dawn, of Varuna, of the Twins ( in this case ZN these are the Asvins). And the Maruts = power of the wind? yes, but also intense energy and mental movements in beings.These are a few, as the kavi (rishis) cognized words for meter (chandas), word intelligence and divine intelligence (devata), etc. And are potent mantras that inspire consciousness to higher levels.

If we used these words in a literal meaning, then fire (agni) would be summoning the priest (RV 1.1.5); Agni would cling to us , like a father for our happiness (RV 1.1.9) - Soma would be just a plant with juice to drink (RV 1.2.4); People have been looking for this soma plant for a while, it is a quality of consciousness.

Cows world 'break' the mountains to get at the inner delight ( this would be very messy experience to say the least). These have symbolic meanings and are most important meanings for inner-yajya.

just a thought o this wonderful Sunday AM...

pranams,

Znanna
09 September 2007, 11:23 AM
Namaste,

Perhaps we don't disagree, either, yajvan :)

As what is essentially beyond words can be understood only in its analogs still, the multiplicity of analogs convey the many different, simultaneous, expressions of the ONE Holy thought. Yet, each part is literally the whole, as well, as seen from whatever point of view is acquired at that time. (It is in this way that, IMO, your Holy texts differ. From this student's point of view, your Scriptures are accessible like a mathematical text versus the diluted and substantially profaned versions of what are now commonly accepted as Abrahamic authorities.)

For example, I coined the term "the Twin" long before I had any interaction with this notion in y'alls Scriptures. Yet, the process/meaning is the same, "I'm other You". In answer to sri sarabhanga's repeated questions regarding identical, conjoined Twins, I would respond that the physical representation has no bearing on the unity of Thought, of One-ness ... in that the physical is only a distraction from the reality of union.

One cannot gaze upon Agni without be-ing Same, as else the brightness would surely blind; furthermore, one must accept blindness as a condition of gazing, if that makes any sense to anyone but me :D


As always, YMMV :)


Love,
ZN

atanu
10 September 2007, 09:00 AM
I have noted that it is of not much use to impress the spiritual origin of words (or any other manifestation), to a listener who is yet to attain a certain level of experience. Jesus also says about this with metaphors of jewels and scoundrels. It is Soma who purifies himself, so ego has very little to do, except to bow down. The puzzle solves itself at right time.

My Guru says that silence is the pure and real communication. In silence, Dakshinamurti teaches four sage sons of Brahma. The way a bulb glows only when the flow of electricity is stopped, words come when the eternal pure communication is stopped, as per the Guru. I must say that it is very difficult to appreciate. But those who sat in silence in front of Ramana and received flow of peace, vouch for the power of silence.

But for most, including me, lucid words help.



Basically right now he wants some sort of 'corroboration' that the scriptures aren't meant to be taken literally in the same way that scriptures in Quran/Bible/Torah are... How in the world do I begin to show him this?


You can't transform one who has already decided that a puranic story fits his viewpoint. Can you? Words may not help, if a persoonal experience does not back up the experience. Rationalisation in man is so strong that there is truly no rationality.

You can perhaps, manage, in a proper context, to ask him his concept of himself. Then you can gradually drill a hole in him -- in his concept of himself. He will run away scared or he will transform.

Best Wishes.

Om

devisarada
11 September 2007, 09:27 PM
Namaste Khadgar,

How is your debate progressing?

Khadgar
12 September 2007, 12:36 AM
Namaste Khadgar,

How is your debate progressing?

Namaste Devisarada,

It is deadlocked as you had predicted. I've pretty much just told him, that if he doesn't understand that the mythology is only a facilitator for the spiritual message [the philosophy] and that it is not the spiritual message itself, then he will never understand how Eastern traditions work. Furthermore I've told him that Sanskrit in and of itself is a very symbolic, poetic language; something which Abrahamics often fail to understand.

devisarada
12 September 2007, 08:44 AM
Namaste Khadgar,

I have had the same experience myself. It seems to me that people who hold strongly to the Abrahamic belief systems have a very literal, legalistic perspective, and a very linear way of thinking. It's too bad, because this hampers any possibility of constructive dialogue.