Disgusting!

[suresh]

Dear Friends,

As my bhakti has never been quite strong, I try to read/hear Vaishnava literature/audio to keep my mind on God. Recently, I had the misfortune of listening to some lectures by a man named Atma Tatva Das. In one of this lectures, he suddenly stops talking about Lord Krishna, and starts abusing Swami Vivekananda in a language so vugar you'll wonder whether you're living in a civilized world.

Some of his gems....

Vivekananda..."hindu monk"? Maybe, we should add 'e-y' to that!

There was one so-called swami who went to Chicago in 1893. And he came back to India with a woman. That's his sole achievement!

Ramakrishna was impotent, that's why he stayed away from his wife. (this was from his Guru Prabhupada, I think).

We thank Vivekananda for taking Vedanta to the west. But because he didn't believe in Krishna, we call him a demon.

There is so much filth coming from this man I didn't want to post more, lest I should hurt myself and the others. Not even the Christian bigots would've been so fanatical in defaming a person as genuine and pure as Vivekananda.

The reason for this post is NOT to attack Vaishnavas, but I really am beginning to wonder whether they're worse than our Semitic friends, who never miss an opportunity to bash Hindus. If this is the kind of despicable behavior displayed by 'our own people' toward a saint of Swamiji's stature, do we really have to wonder why Christians/Muslims behave the way they do?

Bottom line, it's time we created some kind of authority within Hinduism to control and eliminate these third-rate pseudo-saints. I don't give a damn if people call it dictatorship, if it works, it's fine by me. All I know is that external forces, like communists, are successful in destroying H'ism, only on account of the fake saints within. They're kind of a trojan horse, and must be eliminated if H'ism is to survive.

Suresh

[atanu]

Dear Friends,
----
Some of his gems....

Vivekananda..."hindu monk"? Maybe, we should add 'e-y' to that!

There was one so-called swami who went to Chicago in 1893. And he came back to India with a woman. That's his sole achievement!

Ramakrishna was impotent, that's why he stayed away from his wife. (this was from his Guru Prabhupada, I think).

We thank Vivekananda for taking Vedanta to the west. But because he didn't believe in Krishna, we call him a demon.
--


Spiritual people???????????????????

[Agnideva]

Namaste Suresh,

Yes, I agree it is most unfortunate on the part of Atma Tattva Das if he should resort to personal attacks and slander on Vivekananda and Ramakrishna. In the end they only end up hurting themselves.

Calling people demons has been a convenient ploy that has come down through history. At various times and in different writings, people with the same mentality have called Buddha and Adi Shankara demons as well.

In any case, I know most Vaishnavas do not feel or subscribe to these things, and those who do are a small minority.

OM Shanti,
A.

[Ganeshprasad]

Dear Friends,

The reason for this post is NOT to attack Vaishnavas, but I really am beginning to wonder whether they're worse than our Semitic friends, who never miss an opportunity to bash Hindus. If this is the kind of despicable behavior displayed by 'our own people' toward a saint of Swamiji's stature, do we really have to wonder why Christians/Muslims behave the way they do?

Suresh

It hurts even more, when seemingly our own behaves the way they do, but the fact is they do not consider them self as hindus perhaps this fact could be highlighted then may be we might see a change in their stance.
The muslims and christains behaved the way they do well before Iskcon ever came in to the picture so we cant blame them for their deplorable behaviour . Infact they are also wary of Iskcon as they pinch a lot of their own.
The real culprit is the mentality, to change the world, as ours the only way, here on lies all the problems.

Hindu Dharma is personal, it belongs to none but the one who follows it, will learn to be equal to all even a, preceived enemy such is the greatness of Dharma.

Krishna says
One who does not hate any creature, who is friendly and compassionate, free from (the notion of) "I" and "my", even-minded in pain and pleasure, forgiving; and (12.13)
The yogi who is ever content, who has subdued the mind, whose resolve is firm, whose mind and intellect are engaged in dwelling upon Me; such a devotee is dear to Me. (12.14)
The one by whom others are not agitated, and who is not agitated by others; who is free from joy, envy, fear, and anxiety; is also dear to Me. (12.15)
One who is free from desires; who is pure, wise, impartial, and free from anxiety; who has renounced (the doership in) all undertakings; and who is devoted to Me, is dear to Me. (12.16)
One who neither rejoices nor grieves, neither likes nor dislikes, who has renounced both the good and the evil, and who is full of devotion, such a person is dear to Me. (12.17)
The one who remains the same towards friend or foe, in honor or disgrace, in heat or cold, in pleasure or pain; who is free from attachment; and (12.18)
The one who is indifferent or silent in censure or praise, content with anything, unattached to a place (country, or house), equanimous, and full of devotion; that person is dear to Me. (12.19)
But those devotees who have faith and sincerely try to develop the above mentioned immortal virtues, and set Me as their supreme goal; are very dear to Me. (12.20)


Those who has lost the power of discrimination who has lost the sense of vivek resort to name calling, dharma just forsakes them that is what I think.





Bottom line, it's time we created some kind of authority within Hinduism to control and eliminate these third-rate pseudo-saints. I don't give a damn if people call it dictatorship, if it works, it's fine by me. All I know is that external forces, like communists, are successful in destroying H'ism, only on account of the fake saints within. They're kind of a trojan horse, and must be eliminated if H'ism is to survive.

Those who sling mud at the sun can not make blind bit of difference to the brightness. Similarly no amount of attack on the Hindu dharma from what ever the source can ever
Change the truth.

The day we start issuing fatwa is the day Hindu dharma will cease to exists and I know this can never happen for truth always triumphs.
Does this mean we do nothing? No we must always speak up and expose those ungodly acts. Thanks for bringing this up.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

Guru bashing, or infighting within Hinduism, in my opinion is pretty low. Devotees who bash other lineages are certainly exposing their own weaknesses. My personal take on why some members of ISKCON or other groups get into this is that their subconscious is still meandering in "My way is the only way" mentality of the west. In other words, they're still carrying that Christian concept, and don't really get that this is not a concept in the East. Also, it has been my observation that recent converts to any faith are likely to be the most aggressive, and they mellow with age. The 'born againers' within Christianity usually mellow out after some time. I won't argue with someone like that, as that puts me at their level. I just try to understand from a soul-age perspective that that is what they must need in their evolution at this time, and let it go at that. Besides, its a rather futile argument. When my religious belief is really beyond any words, and one of inner feeling, who can take words and change that. But to those of you who feel it your duty to attempt to guide these types, all the best of luck to you. Even if they can accept that we all have freedom of choice, its a step. Aum Namashivaya

[Madhavan]

Bashing of other gurus is a stupid act.
Bashing of other gods is an even more stupid act.

There is a lot of difference between attacks on a personality and his views.

Creating a centralized Hindu authority is not going to help, because it will ultimately become another dictatorship. How has the Pope helped to curb the Christian aggression? The issue being that, which of the Hindus will become the members of the authority and what will they collectively decide?

I came across Prabhupada using the term 'rascal' indiscriminately, and little wonder his followers are following suit in an even 'nicer' way.

[Arvind Sivaraman]

Dear Friends,

As my bhakti has never been quite strong, I try to read/hear Vaishnava literature/audio to keep my mind on God. Recently, I had the misfortune of listening to some lectures by a man named Atma Tatva Das. In one of this lectures, he suddenly stops talking about Lord Krishna, and starts abusing Swami Vivekananda in a language so vugar you'll wonder whether you're living in a civilized world.

Some of his gems....

Vivekananda..."hindu monk"? Maybe, we should add 'e-y' to that!

There was one so-called swami who went to Chicago in 1893. And he came back to India with a woman. That's his sole achievement!

Ramakrishna was impotent, that's why he stayed away from his wife. (this was from his Guru Prabhupada, I think).

We thank Vivekananda for taking Vedanta to the west. But because he didn't believe in Krishna, we call him a demon.

There is so much filth coming from this man I didn't want to post more, lest I should hurt myself and the others. Not even the Christian bigots would've been so fanatical in defaming a person as genuine and pure as Vivekananda.

The reason for this post is NOT to attack Vaishnavas, but I really am beginning to wonder whether they're worse than our Semitic friends, who never miss an opportunity to bash Hindus. If this is the kind of despicable behavior displayed by 'our own people' toward a saint of Swamiji's stature, do we really have to wonder why Christians/Muslims behave the way they do?

Bottom line, it's time we created some kind of authority within Hinduism to control and eliminate these third-rate pseudo-saints. I don't give a damn if people call it dictatorship, if it works, it's fine by me. All I know is that external forces, like communists, are successful in destroying H'ism, only on account of the fake saints within. They're kind of a trojan horse, and must be eliminated if H'ism is to survive.

Suresh

Om Shirdi Sai Ram.
Namaste Suresh.

Variety in Upadesh -- Slanderer Condemned
Sai Baba required no special place, nor any special time for giving instructions. Whenever any occasion demanded, He gave them freely. Once it so happened that a Bhakta of Baba, reviled another behind his back, before other people. On leaving aside merits, he dwelt on the faults of his brother, and spoke so sarcastically, that the hearers were disgusted. Generally, we see that people have a tendency to scandalize others, un-necessarily; and this brings on hatred and ill-will. Saints see scandal, in another light. They say that there are various ways of cleansing or removing dirt, viz. by means of earth, water and soap etc., but a scandal-monger has got a way of his own. He removes the dirt (faults) of others by his tongue; so in a way of obliges the person, whom he reviles and for this he is to be thanked. Sai Baba had his own method of correcting the scandal-monger. He knew by his omniscience what the slanderer had done and when He met him at noon near the Lendi, Baba pointed out to him a pig that was eating filth near the fence and said to him - "Behold how, with what relish it is gorging dung. Your conduct is similar. You go on reviling your own brethren to your heart's content. After performing many deeds of merit, you are born a man, and if you act like this, will Shirdi help you in any way?" Needless to say, that the Bhakta took the lesson to his heart, and went away.

[saidevo]

How has the Pope helped to curb the Christian aggression?


That must be a joke. I thought that the Pope is THE cause of Christian aggression!

[sm78]

The irony with some gaudiya vaishnavas in general and ISKCON-ites in particular is that they contradict their own scriptures with their actions.